The U.S. Needs To Act Against Russian Threat To Ukraine!

[justoffal]

They do?

Well I certainly do get that impression..

Costs Of America's Longest War: Thousands Of Lives, Trillions Of Dollars

 

[Silver Cat]

Conservative, to be clear - you think Russia prevails in a nuclear military confrontation vs the United States?

Yes, of course. They have more tactical nukes for a limited nuclear war, they have better nukes for a first strike, they have good nukes for a retaliation strike, they have better Civil Defense, Emercom and Rosreserve to alleviate consequences, and they even have ABD system to protect their capital.
Some Russian military analists believe that under some 'ideal circumstances' Russia can destroy more than 90% of the American nuclear arsenal with the minimal (less than 5 millions killed) collateral damage and then coerce the USA into acceptable peace at Russian terms.

 

[EyeBRollin]

Some Russian military analists believe that under some 'ideal circumstances' Russia can destroy more than 90% of the American nuclear arsenal with the minimal (less than 5 millions killed) collateral damage and then coerce the USA into acceptable peace at Russian terms.

US analysts disagree. Typical conservative Putin cheerleader.

 

[justoffal]

US analysts disagree. Typical conservative Putin cheerleader.

First of all the entire world loses in an upscale nuclear conflict; Agriculture would become untenable. There would be at least two decades of mass starvation.

Just to be clear we do not have superiority over the Russians when it comes to total negatonnage and delivery systems. This is not a political cheerleading argument it's a fact. Recently in fact the Russian Navy developed autonomous robot subs capable of carrying up to 100 megaton charges. Not only can they be remotely controlled should they lose contact with the controller it is pre-programmed to stealthily creep up to the West Coast or the East Coast and once close enough inland to detonate the charge. Even one of these would destroy our continent because of the mass of radiation released. Given that they probably have several dozen I think it's definitely time to sit down and find out what they want and to put a leash on NATO which has been on an aggressive mission to pick a fight with Russia.

Of course within weeks of that that Nation the deadly cloud of nuclear pollution would drift around the globe and begin to destroy Russia also. Remember now this is just one single detonation.

We're quite capable of destroying Russia also however we would soon follow them to the grave as a result of an all-out nuclear conflict.

Jo

 

[EyeBRollin]

First of all the entire world loses in an upscale nuclear conflict;

This was the entire point. Your conservative brethren are just Russian cheerleaders.

 

[justoffal]

This was the entire point. Your conservative brethren are just Russian cheerleaders.

I doubt that anyone is cheerleading....
However that having been said NATO has some real explaining to do.
They are trouble makers instead of peace keepers .... It was founded for a good reason but now they are no more than hired thugs in need of the next conflict and more than happy to grind up American sons in the political meat grinder for the Bankers pockets......

It should be dissolved.....

JO

 

[Silver Cat]

US analysts disagree. Typical conservative Putin cheerleader.

Just a small clarification:
"Some wishful thinking pseudoanalysts disagree".

 

[Silver Cat]

One more opinion:

Ukraine, NATO, and the Most Fateful Error of American Policy

After the collapse of the Soviet Union and the disintegration of the Warsaw Pact, NATO, in a violation of the verbal agreement between Secretary of State James Baker and Russian Foreign Minister Eduard Shevardnadze, launched a massive expansion to th...

www.americanthinker.com

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Ukraine Says Germany 'Encouraging Putin' By Refusing To Supply Weapons

Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba has accused Germany of "undermining unity" and "encouraging Vladimir Putin" by refusing to supply weapons to Kyiv amid heightened fears of a possible Russian invasion.

Kuleba wrote on Twitter on January 22 that "recent statements by Germany about the impossibility of transferring defense weapons to Ukraine ... do not correspond to the level of our relations and the current security situation."… On January 22, German Defense Minister Christine Lambrecht said in a newspaper interview that Berlin will send a field hospital to Ukraine in February, but rejects the delivery of arms.

"Weapons deliveries would not be helpful at the moment -- that is the consensus in the federal government," Lambrecht told Die Welt … Ukraine's ambassador to Germany, Andriy Melnyk, told the Handelsblatt business newspaper on January 22 that Kyiv would "not rest in convincing the German government ... to deliver defensive weapons to Ukraine."

In a separate development, the Ukrainian Foreign Ministry on January 22 summoned Germany's ambassador regarding comments made by a German military leader that appeared to express empathy for Russian President Putin…

— Ukraine Says Germany 'Encouraging Putin' By Refusing To Supply Weapons

 

[Donald H]

Ukraine Says Germany 'Encouraging Putin' By Refusing To Supply Weapons

Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba has accused Germany of "undermining unity" and "encouraging Vladimir Putin" by refusing to supply weapons to Kyiv amid heightened fears of a possible Russian invasion.

Kuleba wrote on Twitter on January 22 that "recent statements by Germany about the impossibility of transferring defense weapons to Ukraine ... do not correspond to the level of our relations and the current security situation."… On January 22, German Defense Minister Christine Lambrecht said in a newspaper interview that Berlin will send a field hospital to Ukraine in February, but rejects the delivery of arms.

"Weapons deliveries would not be helpful at the moment -- that is the consensus in the federal government," Lambrecht told Die Welt … Ukraine's ambassador to Germany, Andriy Melnyk, told the Handelsblatt business newspaper on January 22 that Kyiv would "not rest in convincing the German government ... to deliver defensive weapons to Ukraine."

In a separate development, the Ukrainian Foreign Ministry on January 22 summoned Germany's ambassador regarding comments made by a German military leader that appeared to express empathy for Russian President Putin…

— Ukraine Says Germany 'Encouraging Putin' By Refusing To Supply Weapons

Shouldn't you be including your own comments and opinion Tom?

I think that the US assumes that it has nothing to lose by promoting a war in Europe that won't be extended to US assets throughout the world. Or to continental US!
Russia for it's part has stated that an attack by Ukraine may not be responded to by a counter attack on the same front, or against Ukraine.

Germany is almost certainly reading it all as US promotion of a proxy war against Russia, with the European Nato countries supporting war that offers Europe no gain.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Your view here is interesting, a bit speculative and conspiratorial — but it certainly does touch on a key difference between German / European elites’ and U.S. “security state” interests and perspectives!

This doesn’t change the fact that Putin is in a tough spot, is a dictator and high stakes gambler running a corrupt mafia-like state. Growing Ukrainian nationalism is real, and a problem that Putin can’t ignore or deal with easily. A war wouldn’t serve real Russian interests (nor Ukraine’s), and I hope we don’t stumble into one.

The present German position on no weapons aid to Ukraine may change. Powerful American “security state,” parochial U.S. oil interests opposed to NordStream2, and of course most Ukrainian nationalists and East Europeans and their American supporters, do have a very different agenda than the German (or French) Establishment. This is not usually made clear in the American popular press, which supports a narrative that blames everything on Russia.

I hope I’ve made it clear I’ve always opposed any extension (even any talk of extension) of NATO to Ukraine and Georgia. I’m also for recognition that Crimea should remain part of Russia.

Putin is a dictator of a huge, unstable and highly corrupt capitalist state. But Russia remains a nuclear armed power. It must not to be pushed into a corner by the U.S. empire.

What may follow Putin, should he lose popularity in Russia and be replaced by others, may be worse. The U.S. is still a “democratic republic” — but of course is also the most aggressive imperialist power in the world.

Not sure what more I can say.

 

[Vrenn]

First of all the entire world loses in an upscale nuclear conflict; Agriculture would become untenable. There would be at least two decades of mass starvation.

Just to be clear we do not have superiority over the Russians when it comes to total negatonnage and delivery systems. This is not a political cheerleading argument it's a fact. Recently in fact the Russian Navy developed autonomous robot subs capable of carrying up to 100 megaton charges. Not only can they be remotely controlled should they lose contact with the controller it is pre-programmed to stealthily creep up to the West Coast or the East Coast and once close enough inland to detonate the charge. Even one of these would destroy our continent because of the mass of radiation released. Given that they probably have several dozen I think it's definitely time to sit down and find out what they want and to put a leash on NATO which has been on an aggressive mission to pick a fight with Russia.

Of course within weeks of that that Nation the deadly cloud of nuclear pollution would drift around the globe and begin to destroy Russia also. Remember now this is just one single detonation.

We're quite capable of destroying Russia also however we would soon follow them to the grave as a result of an all-out nuclear conflict.

Jo

100MT? The biggest Nuke that has been set off in atmospher to date was 50MT and it disrupted everything around the globe. That was named the Tzar bomb. No one in their right mind has anything even near that size. In fact, the US and Russia don't have much over 1mt right now. The normal size of a nuke is 250kt. If you hit your target within the actual blast zone, the lower number does a much as a higher number without ending the world unless you throw everything and then I want to be in the best place for that; dead center on target.

 

[Silver Cat]

100MT? The biggest Nuke that has been set off in atmospher to date was 50MT and it disrupted everything around the globe. That was named the Tzar bomb. No one in their right mind has anything even near that size. In fact, the US and Russia don't have much over 1mt right now. The normal size of a nuke is 250kt. If you hit your target within the actual blast zone, the lower number does a much as a higher number without ending the world unless you throw everything and then I want to be in the best place for that; dead center on target.

Actually more than 100 mt, because it has a nuclear engine and it will detonate, too. Nobody (except, may be few Russians) knows what is exact the power of the torpedo, maximal estimations are near one Gigaton each.
Something pretty close to Doomsday Machine, but some experts believe that it can be used in their first strike to destroy SSBNs on hard duty and carrier strike groups, which position is not exactly known.

 

[Donald H]

Your view here is interesting, a bit speculative and conspiratorial — but it certainly does touch on a key difference between German / European elites’ and U.S. “security state” interests and perspectives!

This doesn’t change the fact that Putin is in a tough spot, is a dictator and high stakes gambler running a corrupt mafia-like state. Growing Ukrainian nationalism is real, and a problem that Putin can’t ignore or deal with easily. A war wouldn’t serve real Russian interests (nor Ukraine’s), and I hope we don’t stumble into one.

The present German position on no weapons aid to Ukraine may change. Powerful American “security state,” parochial U.S. oil interests opposed to NordStream2, and of course most Ukrainian nationalists and East Europeans and their American supporters, do have a very different agenda than the German (or French) Establishment. This is not usually made clear in the American popular press, which supports a narrative that blames everything on Russia.

I hope I’ve made it clear I’ve always opposed any extension (even any talk of extension) of NATO to Ukraine and Georgia. I’m also for recognition that Crimea should remain part of Russia.

Putin is a dictator of a huge, unstable and highly corrupt capitalist state. But Russia remains a nuclear armed power. It must not to be pushed into a corner by the U.S. empire.

What may follow Putin, should he lose popularity in Russia and be replaced by others, may be worse. The U.S. is still a “democratic republic” — but of course is also the most aggressive imperialist power in the world.

Not sure what more I can say.

You've said enough and it's encouraging to know you're in touch with reality. Excepting though in my opinion you're wrong on Putin's/Russia's motives. I'm fully convinced that Russia is taking a purely defensive stance that is meant to protect it's borders from Nato expansion.

I wonder if you can accept the concept of large and powerful nations needing to be proactive in protecting their superiority or challenges to their superiority? Personally, I consider it a given.

 

[Jarlaxle]

So the Russian troops on the border are our imagination?

They're not our problem.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Really? Saved? Write a new textbook on the history of the Second World War:
"...While the United States heroically produced weapons and ammunition at home, the Soviet Union cowardly fought with the whole of Europe, under the leadership of nazi Germany..."
Although, such textbooks have already been written and are actively used, judging by your statements...

Without US production, the Soviet Union would have collapsed. This was stated by no less than Stalin.

 

[Jarlaxle]

The Russian government? The same government that at the same time, in the early 90s, betrayed the country and committed a right-wing coup? They would admit to anything just to justify their betrayal and please the capitalists of the West.
The Poles were killed by the Nazis. A common and natural thing for them. They have always sought to destroy the best representatives of their enemies. They didn't need people capable of leading the "untermensch". A believer in the opposite is a moron.

You CANNOT be this stupid. Just not possible.

Does Putin pay you by the post or by the word?

 

[Jarlaxle]

Ringo You're just a fucking cretin

He's a paid shill.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Yes, of course. They have more tactical nukes for a limited nuclear war, they have better nukes for a first strike, they have good nukes for a retaliation strike, they have better Civil Defense, Emercom and Rosreserve to alleviate consequences, and they even have ABD system to protect their capital.
Some Russian military analists believe that under some 'ideal circumstances' Russia can destroy more than 90% of the American nuclear arsenal with the minimal (less than 5 millions killed) collateral damage and then coerce the USA into acceptable peace at Russian terms.

Those "analysts" say what they are told to say...because I suspect it's bullshit. The most effective (and survivable) of the US nuclear arsenal is, of course, the fourteen Ohio-class missile submarines.

 

[justoffal]

As in.. the world loses, sure.

Yes