The truth on being saved.

[daws101]

P.S. Daws, did you ever get around to providing an answer as to how God should accept you based on your claim that you obtained widom apart from him that is greater than conformists such as myself and King Solomon? I didn't see the reply for that one. Perhaps I missed it. As for Brad? He won't stop and if you keep at him he will follow you everywhere you go. Best to leave that one go.

you must have missed the part where I clearly stated that(if god existed) or did that slip by you too?
there is no proof god exists
also I never inferred or stated my wisdom was greater the solomon's ..
but you sure as **** did.3 times by my count..
on the other hand whether K.S. WAS THE WISEST MAN/KING IS COMPLETELY SUBJECTIVE.
AS to my wisdom being greater than yours. it's no claim, it's fact.
why?
your belief precludes you from seeing outside the box of your dogma.

 

[Chuckt]

1) Anyone who knows the true God, knows a place of eternal torment was symbolic.
2) Any one who listens to Jesus' truths, knows there is no trinity god.

That is heresy.

Jesus taught--John 17:1-6--- While praying to his Father here--Jesus teaches that the one who sent him( Father-John 5:30) is THE ONLY TRUE GOD----- verse 6 = YHWH(Jehovah)
Paul taught the same-1 cor 8:6

The teaching of a trinity is calling Jesus a liar. trinity translations are filled with errors. Trinity religions are a disunified mass of confusion( not Gods) 1 cor 1:10,, 2 cor 11:12-15-- the foretold great apostasy.

If I lived 600 years ago your loving clergy men would have burned me alive at the stake. how sick. You think Jesus had anything to do with them?

Dr. Walter Martin suggests you follow the scripture format listed below
to prove the Trinity.

a. The Father is God. Eph. 1:2

b. Jesus is God. John 1:1, 5:18, 20:28, Isa. 9:6, Heb. 1:16, 8, 10-12,
Rev. 1:8, Rev. 22:12,13

c. The Holy Spirit is God. Acts 5:3-4, Gen. 1:2

d. There is only One God. Deut. 6:4, John 17:3, Isa. 42-48

These four points shown in above order will help you prove the Trinity
with most people who are skeptical about this vital doctrinal issue.
(Complete Evangelism, p.164)

 

[The Irish Ram]

That is incorrect. Jesus was not in the grave with body decomposing for 3 days. He was in Abraham's bosom, also referred to as Paradise, as is Heaven. It is a synonym. Christ preached to those across the chasm in Hades who are still there waiting for the White Throne Judgement. Then He gathered those in Abraham's bosom that had been waiting for Christ to break through the barrier of death, and brought them all back, the thief included as being one of the ones who had died in God's favor.
They were the ones who returned with Him to earth for forty days.

I am aware of the debate concerning the comma, but it doesn't matter. Christ saying it that day, or it happening that day, is the debate. And it doesn't matter because the thief was forgiven, in an instant, after a lifetime of sin. The thief did not spend hours confessing his sins while hanging there with Christ. He said very little, but his heart spoke volumes. That is what it takes for Christ to forgive. Because the thief believed in Christ, that thief ended up in one or the other Paradises, Abraham's with Christ, or God's with Christ.
Because God was merciful about his transgressions and remembered the thief's sins no more, caused the thief to qualify. Not by his lifestyle one way or the other. The thief was hanging on wood and had no opportunity to become righteous or undo his lack of it.

So Christ did it for him. Christ took away the sins of the world. Accept nothing that renders what He did as incomplete.

Never have I not advised repentance. ( What a different outcome that thief would have had concerning his sin and future had he not been hung on a cross next to His redeemer.)
So, practice repentance. Why cling to sin? And what we get in return is, favor we don't deserve, forgiveness and our sins erased. They are remembered NO MORE. My punishment for them, all meted out on the cross. Or if you prefer, My punishment for them all, meted out on the cross.

We simply cannot measure up to Christ as far as righteousness is concerned, but we are more than welcome to rely on our own record for salvation if we chose. That is what the White Throne Judgement is for. Good Luck to all whose names appear on the docket. For those who don't feel so lucky, ask for forgiveness and strive to do better. Rest in Christ and enjoy the new life He offers. If He didn't think you were worthy while you were drenched in sin and at your ugliest, He wouldn't have given His life to clean you up.

Vomiting out is due to not caring one way or the other. It makes the one who gave everything sick at our indifference. Pick a side< there are only 2 choices, for or against, and be adamant about your choice.

One needs to listen to Jesus--at Matt 7:21-23( this is judgement time) These loved Jesus so much enough to do powerful works in his name, and cast out demons,etc--obviously believe in Jesus, will call on his name. Yet Jesus will confess to them, he never even knew them. Jesus brings up two points--Those who do the will of my Father in heaven will enter his kingdom( receive eternal life) and one cannot be a worker of iniquity( lawlessness) = a practicer of sin. At 1 John 3, it teaches--( comparing the children of God and the children of the devil) --- Its impossible for a child of God to practice even 1 sin.
Jaws will drop---Most likely these were told they were saved. And by Jesus saying I never knew you--means that ones name is not written in the book of life. They probably believe as you do it looks like to me--You need to listen to Jesus, learn his truths and apply them all. That is Gods will--- remember God talked from heaven at Jesus baptism-- This is my son the beloved whom I have approved, listen to him.---

The Word of God says IF we sin and confess our sins the Lord will forgive us. Not "when"... Did David sin? Yes. Did he repent? Yes. Did he ever commit that sin again? No. He didn't. I am speaking of deliberate sin that continues on and according to some believers the church can get away with that - not repent and get heaven in the end. The bible promises us no such thing. Without holiness no one will see the Lord. You'd think Christ had left us powerless against such sins! If the church realized half of what Jesus Christ has provided for us through sending us the Holy Spirit they would be ashamed to even suggest such a thing... If people with the Spirit of the Living God dwelling in them cannot stand against temptation in a free nation what will they do when communism takes over and their kids are being put in front of them for death? Do you think they are going to refuse to deny Christ then when they can't even stop themselves from denying him now? Living in sin is denying Jesus Christ in your life before the world. It is putting him to an open shame. If we knew what sin did to the Lord? We'd stop doing it. I am going to start praying God shows his people what living in sin does to His Son. I pray people here have vivid dreams about it! I believe God to do it! Because he can! I feel no offense by any of you and will keep you in my prayers because I know you sincerely believe you can do whatever you want and get away with it but I also know the revelation Christ has given me about it and the answer is, "No." " You can't." - Jeri

Thief on the cross........
So, Yes, you can. Not a wise move, but "Yes, you can". Knock and He'll open, seek and you'll find, call and He'll answer, ask, receive. He is only a heart beat away.

If you are a new person in Christ why would you want to keep sinning? I am not advocating what you are accusing me of. Isn't the old man put to death and replaced by a new man? That wants to do Christ's bidding? Our righteousness isn't even mentioned in the work on the cross. It isn't Christ +.

Doesn't working your way to Heaven, mean Christ's death was in vain? Aren't you frustrating the unmerited favor our Father is trying to bestow on us by pitting it against the rules you seem to need? Or should I scratch that verse out of my Bile.

Gal. 2:16-21
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

 

[Avatar4321]

"You were born guilty, Vandal. "

Sorry, Jere. I'm not buying it. It goes against my concept of justice to be found guilty before I was born because of something Adam did (who I don't believe existed anyway).

Nor I. You will be punished for your own sins. Not Adams Transgression

This is the exact point where the Mormons miss it, Avatar. Jesus Christ is identified as the second Adam because you were indeed born into this world with the sin of Adam upon your soul. All mankind was born into this world with Adams sin. It was inherited just as you inherited things from your own parents . . . You were born spiritually "dead".. which is why Jesus said, Ye must be born again.

Once you are born again you are to come out from among them and be ye separated which for you will mean coming out from the false teachers & the Mormon Church. I will return later - God willing - I have some things to do..

Really?

But the children of the murderers he slew not: according unto that which is written in the book of the law of Moses, wherein the Lord commanded, saying, The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, nor the children be put to death for the fathers; but every man shall be put to death for his own sin. (2 Kings 14:6 quoting Deut 24:16)

Christ Atoned for Adam's transgression. We are not responsible for His actions. Only ours. Was Christ's sacrifice not a sufficient atonement for Adam?

 

[Avatar4321]

The truth on being saved

The truth is that the human race needs to be saved from the fraud of religion.

I'd rather be kind and full of charity than to have so much bitterness in my heart.

 

[Avatar4321]

Thing is it isn't a pov. It is Christ's doctrine. The many sides and points of view come from adding to or taking away from scripture. And is done in part by not understanding the Word of God, or not liking what the Bible tells us.

"I'll remember your sins no more", means just exactly what it says. Why put your own spin on it? Is it not clear enough? Or satisfactory? Do you want Him to remember them?
That we all fall short isn't my assessment either, it's God's and he says it over and over. Working your way into heaven really isn't an option the Bible gives us. It is our substitution for what God gives us.

The reason you read, "in Christ" "in Christ" "in Christ" is because our salvation comes only from the work He did, lest we boast about our own daily righteousness, like the Pharisees did.

Without anyone's opinion, Christ says this:
"I am the way the truth and the life, no one goes to the Father except through me".

Why turn Christ's gift of salvation into an obligation that you are responsible for??

Don't add to it or take away from it. Relying on one's own holiness to get there is adding to the already complete work of Christ, and will result in failure and self condemnation. It means it takes Jesus and you to enter heaven. One is Biblical. One is Biblical + pov.

Not sure what to do, or whose pov you like the best?
Then love your neighbor. Love fulfills the Law. You are covered. Be happy. Rest assured. And if you have done something that grieves our Father, say you're sorry and mean it. And He promises to put it behind Him and you. < His POV.

I can give you my pov on it all but why bother, we have God's.

false! you believe you have god's pov.
the scriptures are at best faulty reflections written by humans.

Which is precisely why recieving the Gift of the Holy Ghost is so vital. Because the Holy Spirit, as a member of the Godhead, can speak directly to our Spirits and teach us what the scriptures mean and give us revelation apart from them as well.

 

[PainefulTruth]

Gods word teaches this( bottom line) --Those who endure till the end will be saved.---
Not one of us has reached the end.
There would be 1 of 2 requirements by a mortal man to know if another is saved--
1) He would have had to see ones name written in the book of life.-- he has not.
2) He would have to be able to read anothers true heart---he cannot

Thus no mortal alive knows if one is saved-- here is a prime example.

On TV Mr Joel Osteen says--say these 3 lines of prayer and you are born again( saved). about 1000 in audience, 10,000 plus on tv--He doesn't know 1/10th of them--now they all say these 3 lines and go through life thinking they are saved--yet some are workers of iniquities who walk the broad and spacious path. and I believe that as much as he had no clue about the workers of iniquity he told were saved, he has no clue about any just as no mortal does. He is elevating himself into Gods [position by teaching those are saved as any teacher who does I believe is a teacher of darkness( 2 Corinthians 11:12-15)

I agree. But Paul, like Mr. Osteen, taught: "But didn’t he earn his right to heaven by all the good things he did? No, for being saved is a gift; if a person could earn it by being good, then it wouldn’t be free—but it is! It is given to those who do not work for it. For God declares sinners to be good in his sight if they have faith in Christ to save them from God’s wrath.--Romans 4:4

Jesus and his partner, John the Baptist, both taught in their dual efforts along the Jordan River, that repentance was the only path to salvation. Paul, as usual, almost never referred to what Jesus taught, but only used Jesus' convenient "revelations" to boost his own authority as a teacher of darkness, which the above passage reveals.

 

[daws101]

The truth on being saved

The truth is that the human race needs to be saved from the fraud of religion.

I'd rather be kind and full of charity than to have so much bitterness in my heart.

really ...it appears that huggy is being the most kind by warning everyone of an aspect of religion that people like you will not address..

 

[daws101]

Thing is it isn't a pov. It is Christ's doctrine. The many sides and points of view come from adding to or taking away from scripture. And is done in part by not understanding the Word of God, or not liking what the Bible tells us.

"I'll remember your sins no more", means just exactly what it says. Why put your own spin on it? Is it not clear enough? Or satisfactory? Do you want Him to remember them?
That we all fall short isn't my assessment either, it's God's and he says it over and over. Working your way into heaven really isn't an option the Bible gives us. It is our substitution for what God gives us.

The reason you read, "in Christ" "in Christ" "in Christ" is because our salvation comes only from the work He did, lest we boast about our own daily righteousness, like the Pharisees did.

Without anyone's opinion, Christ says this:
"I am the way the truth and the life, no one goes to the Father except through me".

Why turn Christ's gift of salvation into an obligation that you are responsible for??

Don't add to it or take away from it. Relying on one's own holiness to get there is adding to the already complete work of Christ, and will result in failure and self condemnation. It means it takes Jesus and you to enter heaven. One is Biblical. One is Biblical + pov.

Not sure what to do, or whose pov you like the best?
Then love your neighbor. Love fulfills the Law. You are covered. Be happy. Rest assured. And if you have done something that grieves our Father, say you're sorry and mean it. And He promises to put it behind Him and you. < His POV.

I can give you my pov on it all but why bother, we have God's.

false! you believe you have god's pov.
the scriptures are at best faulty reflections written by humans.

Which is precisely why recieving the Gift of the Holy Ghost is so vital. Because the Holy Spirit, as a member of the Godhead, can speak directly to our Spirits and teach us what the scriptures mean and give us revelation apart from them as well.

you can't be serious...the holy ghost is fictitious, it's there to fill a gap..nothing more..

 

[kjw47]

That is heresy.

Jesus taught--John 17:1-6--- While praying to his Father here--Jesus teaches that the one who sent him( Father-John 5:30) is THE ONLY TRUE GOD----- verse 6 = YHWH(Jehovah)
Paul taught the same-1 cor 8:6

The teaching of a trinity is calling Jesus a liar. trinity translations are filled with errors. Trinity religions are a disunified mass of confusion( not Gods) 1 cor 1:10,, 2 cor 11:12-15-- the foretold great apostasy.

If I lived 600 years ago your loving clergy men would have burned me alive at the stake. how sick. You think Jesus had anything to do with them?

Dr. Walter Martin suggests you follow the scripture format listed below
to prove the Trinity.

a. The Father is God. Eph. 1:2

b. Jesus is God. John 1:1, 5:18, 20:28, Isa. 9:6, Heb. 1:16, 8, 10-12,
Rev. 1:8, Rev. 22:12,13

c. The Holy Spirit is God. Acts 5:3-4, Gen. 1:2

d. There is only One God. Deut. 6:4, John 17:3, Isa. 42-48

These four points shown in above order will help you prove the Trinity
with most people who are skeptical about this vital doctrinal issue.
(Complete Evangelism, p.164)

An a belongs in the last line of John 1:1--- many translations in history had it there--even trinity translations--because it belongs there--- The holy spirit doesn't even have a name it is not a being it is a force.
You are correct--there is only 1 God-- Jesus' God--John 20:17, rev 3:12


If Jesus were God then this would be impossible--1 cor 15:24-28--God is not in subjection to God

 

[kjw47]

Gods word teaches this( bottom line) --Those who endure till the end will be saved.---
Not one of us has reached the end.
There would be 1 of 2 requirements by a mortal man to know if another is saved--
1) He would have had to see ones name written in the book of life.-- he has not.
2) He would have to be able to read anothers true heart---he cannot

Thus no mortal alive knows if one is saved-- here is a prime example.

On TV Mr Joel Osteen says--say these 3 lines of prayer and you are born again( saved). about 1000 in audience, 10,000 plus on tv--He doesn't know 1/10th of them--now they all say these 3 lines and go through life thinking they are saved--yet some are workers of iniquities who walk the broad and spacious path. and I believe that as much as he had no clue about the workers of iniquity he told were saved, he has no clue about any just as no mortal does. He is elevating himself into Gods [position by teaching those are saved as any teacher who does I believe is a teacher of darkness( 2 Corinthians 11:12-15)

I agree. But Paul, like Mr. Osteen, taught: "But didn’t he earn his right to heaven by all the good things he did? No, for being saved is a gift; if a person could earn it by being good, then it wouldn’t be free—but it is! It is given to those who do not work for it. For God declares sinners to be good in his sight if they have faith in Christ to save them from God’s wrath.--Romans 4:4

Jesus and his partner, John the Baptist, both taught in their dual efforts along the Jordan River, that repentance was the only path to salvation. Paul, as usual, almost never referred to what Jesus taught, but only used Jesus' convenient "revelations" to boost his own authority as a teacher of darkness, which the above passage reveals.

Good works builds a strong faith--faith without works is dead( worthless) so one has to have the works to have a faith worth something. Paul taught truth--men twist what is said--many deep hidden meanings in Gods word.

 

[Avatar4321]

Which is precisely why recieving the Gift of the Holy Ghost is so vital. Because the Holy Spirit, as a member of the Godhead, can speak directly to our Spirits and teach us what the scriptures mean and give us revelation apart from them as well.

you can't be serious...the holy ghost is fictitious, it's there to fill a gap..nothing more..

There is nothing fictitious about the Holy Spirit. He is as real as you or I.

 

[daws101]

Which is precisely why recieving the Gift of the Holy Ghost is so vital. Because the Holy Spirit, as a member of the Godhead, can speak directly to our Spirits and teach us what the scriptures mean and give us revelation apart from them as well.

you can't be serious...the holy ghost is fictitious, it's there to fill a gap..nothing more..

There is nothing fictitious about the Holy Spirit. He is as real as you or I.

now you're just making shit up!

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Gods word teaches this( bottom line) --Those who endure till the end will be saved.---
Not one of us has reached the end.
There would be 1 of 2 requirements by a mortal man to know if another is saved--
1) He would have had to see ones name written in the book of life.-- he has not.
2) He would have to be able to read anothers true heart---he cannot

Thus no mortal alive knows if one is saved-- here is a prime example.

On TV Mr Joel Osteen says--say these 3 lines of prayer and you are born again( saved). about 1000 in audience, 10,000 plus on tv--He doesn't know 1/10th of them--now they all say these 3 lines and go through life thinking they are saved--yet some are workers of iniquities who walk the broad and spacious path. and I believe that as much as he had no clue about the workers of iniquity he told were saved, he has no clue about any just as no mortal does. He is elevating himself into Gods [position by teaching those are saved as any teacher who does I believe is a teacher of darkness( Corinthians 11:12-15)

I agree. But Paul, like Mr. Osteen, taught: "But didn’t he earn his right to heaven by all the good things he did? No, for being saved is a gift; if a person could earn it by being good, then it wouldn’t be free—but it is! It is given to those who do not work for it. For God declares sinners to be good in his sight if they have faith in Christ to save them from God’s wrath.--Romans 4:4

Jesus and his partner, John the Baptist, both taught in their dual efforts along the Jordan River, that repentance was the only path to salvation. Paul, as usual, almost never referred to what Jesus taught, but only used Jesus' convenient "revelations" to boost his own authority as a teacher of darkness, which the above passage reveals.

Romans 4: 4 says no such. No where in the bible does it say that God declarers sinners good in his sight if they have faith in Christ to save them. Grace is not a license to sin and neither is salvation, P.T.

Romans 4: 4 says this: Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but debt.

I don't know what bible you are reading out of but you had better toss it, P.T. What you are quoting does not exist in the Holy Bible. Futhermore, the Apostle Paul was a humble servant of God and I have no idea why you have such issues with him. Do you? - Jeri

 

[Chuckt]

Gods word teaches this( bottom line) --Those who endure till the end will be saved.---
Not one of us has reached the end.
There would be 1 of 2 requirements by a mortal man to know if another is saved--
1) He would have had to see ones name written in the book of life.-- he has not.
2) He would have to be able to read anothers true heart---he cannot

Thus no mortal alive knows if one is saved-- here is a prime example.

On TV Mr Joel Osteen says--say these 3 lines of prayer and you are born again( saved). about 1000 in audience, 10,000 plus on tv--He doesn't know 1/10th of them--now they all say these 3 lines and go through life thinking they are saved--yet some are workers of iniquities who walk the broad and spacious path. and I believe that as much as he had no clue about the workers of iniquity he told were saved, he has no clue about any just as no mortal does. He is elevating himself into Gods [position by teaching those are saved as any teacher who does I believe is a teacher of darkness( Corinthians 11:12-15)

I agree. But Paul, like Mr. Osteen, taught: "But didn’t he earn his right to heaven by all the good things he did? No, for being saved is a gift; if a person could earn it by being good, then it wouldn’t be free—but it is! It is given to those who do not work for it. For God declares sinners to be good in his sight if they have faith in Christ to save them from God’s wrath.--Romans 4:4

Jesus and his partner, John the Baptist, both taught in their dual efforts along the Jordan River, that repentance was the only path to salvation. Paul, as usual, almost never referred to what Jesus taught, but only used Jesus' convenient "revelations" to boost his own authority as a teacher of darkness, which the above passage reveals.

Romans 4: 4 says no such. No where in the bible does it say that God declarers sinners good in his sight if they have faith in Christ to save them. Grace is not a license to sin and neither is salvation, P.T.

Romans 4: 4 says this: Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but debt.

I don't know what bible you are reading out of but you had better toss it, P.T. What you are quoting does not exist in the Holy Bible. Futhermore, the Apostle Paul was a humble servant of God and I have no idea why you have such issues with him. Do you? - Jeri

You missed a verse:

"But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness" (Romans 4:5)

"And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of god by faith:"-Philippians 3:9

“Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.”-Habakkuk 2:4

"...it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe."-I Corinthians 1:21

 

[kjw47]

I agree. But Paul, like Mr. Osteen, taught: "But didn’t he earn his right to heaven by all the good things he did? No, for being saved is a gift; if a person could earn it by being good, then it wouldn’t be free—but it is! It is given to those who do not work for it. For God declares sinners to be good in his sight if they have faith in Christ to save them from God’s wrath.--Romans 4:4

Jesus and his partner, John the Baptist, both taught in their dual efforts along the Jordan River, that repentance was the only path to salvation. Paul, as usual, almost never referred to what Jesus taught, but only used Jesus' convenient "revelations" to boost his own authority as a teacher of darkness, which the above passage reveals.

Romans 4: 4 says no such. No where in the bible does it say that God declarers sinners good in his sight if they have faith in Christ to save them. Grace is not a license to sin and neither is salvation, P.T.

Romans 4: 4 says this: Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but debt.

I don't know what bible you are reading out of but you had better toss it, P.T. What you are quoting does not exist in the Holy Bible. Futhermore, the Apostle Paul was a humble servant of God and I have no idea why you have such issues with him. Do you? - Jeri

You missed a verse:

"But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness" (Romans 4:5)

"And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of god by faith:"-Philippians 3:9

“Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.”-Habakkuk 2:4

"...it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe."-I Corinthians 1:21

Yes faith has its purpose as does works. Obviously when James taught-- Faith without works is dead---- it was showing there are 2 kinds of faith.
1) faith with no works = worthless
2) faith that built up strong because of its works= acceptable.

So both faith and works serves a purpose all to the glory of the Father( YHWH) Jehovah) and his appointed king Jesus.

 

[Chuckt]

Romans 4: 4 says no such. No where in the bible does it say that God declarers sinners good in his sight if they have faith in Christ to save them. Grace is not a license to sin and neither is salvation, P.T.

Romans 4: 4 says this: Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but debt.

I don't know what bible you are reading out of but you had better toss it, P.T. What you are quoting does not exist in the Holy Bible. Futhermore, the Apostle Paul was a humble servant of God and I have no idea why you have such issues with him. Do you? - Jeri

You missed a verse:

"But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness" (Romans 4:5)

"And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of god by faith:"-Philippians 3:9

“Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.”-Habakkuk 2:4

"...it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe."-I Corinthians 1:21

Yes faith has its purpose as does works. Obviously when James taught-- Faith without works is dead---- it was showing there are 2 kinds of faith.
1) faith with no works = worthless
2) faith that built up strong because of its works= acceptable.

So both faith and works serves a purpose all to the glory of the Father( YHWH) Jehovah) and his appointed king Jesus.

James 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

James acknowledges that Abraham believed God and it was imputed unto him for righteousness. It means that righteousness was added to Abraham's account just for believing and not because of anything he did because this was several chapters (Genesis 15) before Isaac was offered (justified before works in Genesis 22) on the altar of God.
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Gods word teaches this( bottom line) --Those who endure till the end will be saved.---
Not one of us has reached the end.
There would be 1 of 2 requirements by a mortal man to know if another is saved--
1) He would have had to see ones name written in the book of life.-- he has not.
2) He would have to be able to read anothers true heart---he cannot

Thus no mortal alive knows if one is saved-- here is a prime example.

On TV Mr Joel Osteen says--say these 3 lines of prayer and you are born again( saved). about 1000 in audience, 10,000 plus on tv--He doesn't know 1/10th of them--now they all say these 3 lines and go through life thinking they are saved--yet some are workers of iniquities who walk the broad and spacious path. and I believe that as much as he had no clue about the workers of iniquity he told were saved, he has no clue about any just as no mortal does. He is elevating himself into Gods [position by teaching those are saved as any teacher who does I believe is a teacher of darkness( Corinthians 11:12-15)

I agree. But Paul, like Mr. Osteen, taught: "But didn&#8217;t he earn his right to heaven by all the good things he did? No, for being saved is a gift; if a person could earn it by being good, then it wouldn&#8217;t be free&#8212;but it is! It is given to those who do not work for it. For God declares sinners to be good in his sight if they have faith in Christ to save them from God&#8217;s wrath.--Romans 4:4

Jesus and his partner, John the Baptist, both taught in their dual efforts along the Jordan River, that repentance was the only path to salvation. Paul, as usual, almost never referred to what Jesus taught, but only used Jesus' convenient "revelations" to boost his own authority as a teacher of darkness, which the above passage reveals.

Romans 4: 4 says no such. No where in the bible does it say that God declarers sinners good in his sight if they have faith in Christ to save them.
Grace is not a license to sin and neither is salvation, P.T.

Romans 4: 4 says this: Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but debt.

I don't know what bible you are reading out of but you had better toss it, P.T. What you are quoting does not exist in the Holy Bible. Futhermore, the Apostle Paul was a humble servant of God and I have no idea why you have such issues with him. Do you? - Jeri

I bolded those sentences to highlight the issue. Every where in the Bible it says that God declares sinners good in His sight if they have faith in Christ to save them. It is the only thing that saves us. In Christ, in Christ, In Christ, through Christ, through Christ, through Christ. Working working working will let you down. You have nothing to do with removing sin. <the requirement to reside in heaven and again back here on earth.

It is Christ's faithfulness and nothing you have produced by which we are cleansed. His holiness, His work, His death. We exchanged places with Him at the cross. He looked like we murders, liars, thieves, and creeps do. He died in our place steeped in our sin. When we ask Christ to come into our lives and we accept Him as our substitute, our Passover Lamb, our sins fall into His category, tried, sentenced and paid for. Finished. We look like Christ when God sees us. That was the exchange.

If you are in Christ, God is 100% JUST in not judging us. To do so would be double jeopardy. It is against against the law to sentence someone twice for the same crime. It is why Darius didn't throw Daniel back into the lions den when he survived the initial sentence.

Christ for salvation. Works for reward for being faith - full and bearing fruit. One has nothing to do with the other.

Let's look at Romans 4: 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but debt.

The reward for work is debt. It is you trying to pay the debt you owe. It does not fall under the unmerited favor we have through Christ's work.
It is a warning. Your not covered, you have no unmerited favor. You have yourself and a bunch of debt you owe for breaking the law. That sentence is death. 1 sin = death. You had better be very sure of your holiness if you choose to go it alone.

Look what Romans 4 is referring to. Read Romans 3.

21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ [/B]Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood&#8212;to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished&#8212; 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

It means this:

27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. 28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

Atonement, Amends or reparation made for an injury or wrong. Not His wrong. He didn't have any. OUR wrongs. His Blood. God's love.
It's not you, it's Him.

 

[Chuckt]

An a belongs in the last line of John 1:1--- many translations in history had it there--even trinity translations--because it belongs there--- The holy spirit doesn't even have a name it is not a being it is a force.

Are you a Jehovah's Witness?

This is false. If the Holy Spirit were merely a force, then He could not speak (Acts 13:2); He could not be grieved (Eph. 4:30); and He would not have a will (1 Cor. 12:11).

Who or What is the Holy Spirit | Define the Holy Spirit | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

 

[theword]

Thing is it isn't a pov. It is Christ's doctrine. The many sides and points of view come from adding to or taking away from scripture. And is done in part by not understanding the Word of God, or not liking what the Bible tells us.

"I'll remember your sins no more", means just exactly what it says. Why put your own spin on it? Is it not clear enough? Or satisfactory? Do you want Him to remember them?
That we all fall short isn't my assessment either, it's God's and he says it over and over. Working your way into heaven really isn't an option the Bible gives us. It is our substitution for what God gives us.

The reason you read, "in Christ" "in Christ" "in Christ" is because our salvation comes only from the work He did, lest we boast about our own daily righteousness, like the Pharisees did.

Without anyone's opinion, Christ says this:
"I am the way the truth and the life, no one goes to the Father except through me".

Why turn Christ's gift of salvation into an obligation that you are responsible for??

Don't add to it or take away from it. Relying on one's own holiness to get there is adding to the already complete work of Christ, and will result in failure and self condemnation. It means it takes Jesus and you to enter heaven. One is Biblical. One is Biblical + pov.

Not sure what to do, or whose pov you like the best?
Then love your neighbor. Love fulfills the Law. You are covered. Be happy. Rest assured. And if you have done something that grieves our Father, say you're sorry and mean it. And He promises to put it behind Him and you. < His POV.

I can give you my pov on it all but why bother, we have God's.

false! you believe you have god's pov.
the scriptures are at best faulty reflections written by humans.

Which is precisely why recieving the Gift of the Holy Ghost is so vital. Because the Holy Spirit, as a member of the Godhead, can speak directly to our Spirits and teach us what the scriptures mean and give us revelation apart from them as well.

Is the invisible Holy Spirit the same thing as the invisible Kingdom of God?

Is the invisible Kingdom of God the same thing as the invisible Kingdom of Heaven?

Is the invisible Kingdom of Heaven the same thing as the invisible Son of God?

Is the invisible Son of God the same thing as the invisible Word of God?

I Colossians 1:
15: He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation;
16: for in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities – all things were created through him and for him.
17: He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Were we created invisible or visible?