The truth about Truman’s bombing Japan

[Unkotare]

...

How many who were culturally Japanese were captured prior to 15 August?

Some people have seen too many old movies and anime and think no Japanese leader or soldier ever surrendered. Cartoonishly shallow "understanding" (imagining) of history.

 

[Unkotare]

Some people have seen too many old movies and anime and think no Japanese leader or soldier ever surrendered. Cartoonishly shallow "understanding" (imagining) of history.

.

 

[Unkotare]

Mass murder in the Pacific! I suggest anyone who reads this thread needs to go to the National Cemetery in San Diego. In rows over rows of Marines, many teenagers, died and many were injured.

See this:

Google Search

Should anyone who reads this visit the Peace Park in Hiroshima?

 

[Unkotare]

Or look at the Rape of Nanking. .....

Here we go again. Another one imagining we incinerated hundreds of thousands out of revenge for China.

 

[Delldude]

Not true, both were extensively bombed.

Read it in the book Enola Gay.

More specific information:

Dr. Stearns described the work he had done on target selection. He has surveyed possible targets possessing the following qualifications: (1) they be important targets in a large urban area of more than three miles diameter, (2) they be capable of being damaged effectively by a blast, and (3) they are likely to be unattacked by next August. Dr. Stearns had a list of five targets which the Air Forces would be willing to reserve for our use unless unforeseen circumstances arise. These targets are:

Target Committee Recommendations - Nuclear Museum

Summary of Target Committee MeetingsMay 10 and 11, 1945Declassified government documentMemorandum from Major J. A. Derry and Dr. N. F. Ramsey to General L. R. GrovesStatus of TargetsA. Dr. Stearns described the work he had done on target selection. He has surveyed possible targets possessing the...

ahf.nuclearmuseum.org

 

[Mushroom]

Some people have seen too many old movies and anime and think no Japanese leader or soldier ever surrendered.

Then name the Japanese leaders that surrendered their forces during WWII.

 

[Unkotare]

Then name the Japanese leaders that surrendered their forces during WWII.

Read my post again.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Read my post again.

Very few actual Japanese sailors or soldiers attempted to surrender. Even fewer were allowed to. Most “Japanese” who surrendered were from conquered territories who didn’t buy into the Bushido brainwashing. Considering the millions of “Japanese” serving in WWII even the high number of fifty thousand is a minuscule percentage.
I don’t think any Japanese commander ever surrendered his unit before the general surrender in 1945. Even then many Japanese unit commanders refused to surrender, ordering their subordinates to surrender, then committed suicide themselves.

 

[Mushroom]

Read my post again.

That is an unsourced and unsubstantiated news clipping from over 5 decades ago that is hidden behind a paywall.

Notice I have original sources, all you have is something without any validation or verification. In other words, the exact same coprolite you have been repeating ad nauseum without proof.

Once again, name any Japanese leaders that actually surrendered their forces during the war. Not on or before the Emperor ordering them to but before that.

Hell, I even provided proof of a General that outright ignored the order to surrender and had 11 other aircraft follow him on a final kamikaze mission because he refused to follow the Emperor's orders and decide to die rather than surrender.

As typical, Poop Head makes silly claims and can prove absolutely nothing.

 

[Unkotare]

Very few actual Japanese sailors or soldiers attempted to surrender. Even fewer were allowed to. Most “Japanese” who surrendered were from conquered territories who didn’t buy into the Bushido brainwashing. Considering the millions of “Japanese” serving in WWII even the high number of fifty thousand is a minuscule percentage.
I don’t think any Japanese commander ever surrendered his unit before the general surrender in 1945. Even then many Japanese unit commanders refused to surrender, ordering their subordinates to surrender, then committed suicide themselves.

Cartoon history.

 

[Unkotare]

That is an unsourced and unsubstantiated news clipping from over 5 decades ago that is hidden behind a paywall.

Notice I have sources original sources, all you have is something without any validation or verification. In other words, the exact same coprolite you have been repeating ad nauseum without proof.

Once again, name any Japanese leaders that actually surrendered their forces during the war. Not on or before the Emperor ordering them to but before that.

Hell, I even provided proof of a General that outright ignored the order to surrender and had 11 other aircraft follow him on a final kamikaze mission because he refused to follow the Emperor's orders and decide to die rather than surrender.

As typical, Poop Head makes silly claims and can prove absolutely nothing.

Imagination history

 

[Mushroom]

Imagination history

And Poop Head is dodging as always and refuses to actually answer when he is challenged.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

And Poop Head is dodging as always and refuses to actually answer when he is challenged.

he cant answer as all he has are lies and bullshit

 

[Mushroom]

he cant answer as all he has are lies and bullshit

Like his complete ignoring of actual messages from Foreign Minister Togo to Ambassador Sato. Like the one on 25 July 1945.

Also, at the present time, as you are probably well aware, there are various arguments as to the substance of the demand for unconditional surrender of Japan in Great Britain and the United states, particularly in the United States. A United States spokesman stated that : "As a rule, for the sake of formality, the Allies will hold fast to unconditional surrender until the end. However, should the Imperial Japanese Government surrender immediately, the Allies are actually prepared to modify the terms." For instance, on the 19th [21st] Captain Zacharias --although a member of the United States Office of War Information he broadcasts to Japan as a spokesman for the United States Government--disclosed the substance of surrender terms, saying that Japan had two choices to make. One was to submit to a dictated peace after the complete destruction of Japan; the other, to accept unconditional surrender and receive benefits under the Atlantic Charter. This is considered simple propaganda strategy. Although it is not definitely stated, this is to a certain degree understood to be a means of encouraging surrender. Nevertheless, special attention should be paid to the fact that at this time the United States referred to the Atlantic Charter. As for Japan, it is impossible to accept unconditional surrender under any circumstances, but we should like to communicate to the other party through appropriate channels that we have no objection to a peace based on the Atlantic Charter. The difficult point is the attitude of the enemy, who continues to insist on the formality of unconditional surrender. Should the United States and Great Britain remain insistent on formality, there is no solution to this situation other than for us to hold out until complete collapse because of this one point alone.

This is a very critical look into the mind of one of the most important members of the Big Six.

But first, it has to be remembers that the Potsdam Declaration never called for the Unconditional Surrender of Japan as a nation, only of their armed forces.

But in the first bold point, the Foreign Minister is acknowledging that the Allies were willing to modify the terms. But they never even attempted to talk to the Allies for clarification.

And in the second bold part, the use once again of the word "peace" as their demand. Which is known meant that they wanted an armistice, and not a surrender. And an armistice is not a surrender.

Then finally the final bold part. Which states that so long as the Allied demand a surrender, they would fight to the bitter end even if it meant the destruction of Japan as a nation.

Those points all without question prove that Japan was unwilling to surrender, no matter what. And they would not even discuss the possibility with the Allied Powers. All of their attempts to end the war was with an armistice, and an armistice is not a surrender. It is an end to the fighting, with both sides returning to their positions before the war started. In essence a reset as if the war never happened.

As I said over and over, there is a reason I primarily use original source documentation. In that way one can see the actual exchanges between the individuals who are actually in a leadership position in the country, without the original context being overwritten by later day opinions.

And nowhere in any of the exchanges between FM Togo and A Sato is there any hint that Japan was even willing to consider anything other than peace on their terms, or fighting to the bitter end no matter what. Togo even said so several times, including the message I quoted above.

And I find it particularly funny that he gets offended whenever I call him Poop Head. Even though that is literally what his name means. And his constant commenting that I know nothing of Japan other than from cartoons and movies. Even though I actually lived in Japan, actually do translations of Japanese movies into English as a hobby, and have spent so long in the culture that I absolutely never refer to the Emperor of that era by his name, but by the correct address as the Emperor Showa (or the Showa Emperor). For all of his belittling of me for not understanding the Japanese, even he does not do that but addresses him by his name in life.

And I actually challenged him over a year ago when he said my translation of his name is incorrect. I then asked him what it really translates to and he has never answered me as to what he thinks Unkotare means. But for those that remember the "Two Girls One Cup" meme from a decade or so back, that literally is an example of "Unkotare".

The very fact that he even lies about what his name means is really all one needs to know about his veracity in anything he claims.

 

[Unkotare]

Pretentious poseurs are fun because they are fundamentally insecure (as they should be) and their little fake egos are so easily wounded.

Back to the cartoons!

 

[Unkotare]

...

And I actually challenged him over a year ago when he said my translation of his name is incorrect. ...

It is incorrect.

 

[Unkotare]

Were there alternatives to the atomic bombings?

Considering a few of the options that were on the table in 1945.

blog.nuclearsecrecy.com

 

[Unkotare]

"Walter Trohan, a reporter for the Chicago Tribune with impeccable credentials for integrity and accuracy, reported that two days before President Roosevelt left for the Yalta conference with Churchill and Stalin in early February 1945, he was shown a forty-page memorandum drafted by General MacArthur outlining a Japanese offer for surrender almost identical with the terms subsequently concluded by his successor, President Truman. The single difference was the Japanese insistence on retention of the emperor, which was not acceptable to the American strategists at the time, though it was ultimately allowed in the final peace terms. Trohan relates that he was given a copy of this communication by Admiral Leahy who swore him to secrecy with the pledge not to release the story until the war was over. Trohan honored his pledge and reported his story in the Chicago Tribune and the Washington Times-Herald on August 19, 1945. According to historian Anthony Kubek, Roosevelt, in the presence of witnesses, read the memorandum and dismissed it with a curt “MacArthur is our greatest general and our poorest politician.”

 

[Unkotare]

"the lives of 135,000 to 300,000 mostly Japanese women, children, and old people were sacrificed..."

"The top American military leaders who fought World War II, much to the surprise of many who are not aware of the record, were quite clear that the atomic bomb was unnecessary, that Japan was on the verge of surrender, and—for many—that the destruction of large numbers of civilians was immoral."

The War Was Won Before Hiroshima—and the Generals Who Dropped the Bomb Knew It

Seventy years after the bombing, will Americans face the brutal truth?

www.thenation.com

 

[Unkotare]

"Most were also conservatives, not liberals. Adm. William Leahy, Truman’s chief of staff, wrote in his 1950 memoir I Was There that “the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender.… In being the first to use it, we…adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children.”