The Truth about Mormons

[Dr.House]

Get off my phone! (This was done after becoming a mormon of course, so your post makes no sense.)

Pinhead.

I was unaware that being mormon means you have to let annoying people on speak on your talkshow.

You must forgive Autozona...

He runs daily searches on the following keywords: Beck, Hannity, Palin, FOXNews

Then he drinks a fifth of cheap vodka and proceeds to post...

 

[froggy]

Why were these gold plates, never made available to be checked for authenticity

And exactly how would you authenticate them, pray tell?

how about the age of them.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Why were these gold plates, never made available to be checked for authenticity

And exactly how would you authenticate them, pray tell?

You forgot to tell him Joseph Smith did have witnesses to the plates and that even though some of them eventually left the church NONE of them ever countered their original claim the plates existed.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Why were these gold plates, never made available to be checked for authenticity

And exactly how would you authenticate them, pray tell?

how about the age of them.

How would they know the age of them in the early 1800's?

 

[Avatar4321]

Why were these gold plates, never made available to be checked for authenticity

And exactly how would you authenticate them, pray tell?

how about the age of them.

Can you do that with metal?

 

[Zona]

"I post drunk." - Autozona

"I like little boys" - Dr. House

 

[Skeptik]

And exactly how would you authenticate them, pray tell?

how about the age of them.

Can you do that with metal?

The way the age of a metal artifact is determined is by carefully excavating it and then determining at what level it was buried. The age of the other artifacts, bones, and so on at the same level would then determine the age of the metal artifact.

Were there any other items found with the plates? If any of them still exist, if they were made of any carbon compound, then it would be possible to date the plates. If the plates were found all by themselves, then it would lead a researcher to wonder why that is. Usually, a find is not just one object.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

how about the age of them.

Can you do that with metal?

The way the age of a metal artifact is determined is by carefully excavating it and then determining at what level it was buried. The age of the other artifacts, bones, and so on at the same level would then determine the age of the metal artifact.

Were there any other items found with the plates? If any of them still exist, if they were made of any carbon compound, then it would be possible to date the plates. If the plates were found all by themselves, then it would lead a researcher to wonder why that is. Usually, a find is not just one object.

The plates were "found" in the 1820's as I recall. I seriously doubt carbon dating was available back then. Joseph Smith was Given the plates by an Angel of God. The existence of the plates is verified by witness that Joseph Smith showed the plates to. Some of these witnesses later left the Church, yet not a single one ever recanted their witness of the plates.

 

[Truthspeaker]

This is a very verbose / high-end discussion. I'd like to do a fly-by and get the "Mormanism for Dummies" version.

Thank you for dropping in. As long as you don't leave droppings with you.

1. What would the Mormon theologians at BYU differ with the theologians at Notre Dame and SMU on? (main bullet points)

You're basically asking what the difference is between Mormonism and Catholicism. I will sum up.

1.We believe in a physical God as compared to a spirit without body parts or passions.
2. We also believe that Jesus, His Father and the Holy Ghost are three individuals, the latter not having a body, whereas Catholics believe they are all the same person.
3. We believe in questioning everything whereas Catholicism discourages too many questions.
4. We believe the authority of the priesthood was removed for a time with the death of the apostles and other priests ordained by Jesus, therefore there was a need for a complete restoration of the order Jesus instituted. Catholicism claims the authority was never lost and claim it on the grounds that Peter gave authority to the Catholic Church somehow.
5. We believe in a literal physical resurrection like Jesus had, where Catholicism claims there will be no resurrection of the body.
6. We believe the body is a gift from God and one of the greatest of all gifts God can give. Catholics believe it is a sinful prison that we should look forward to escaping in the next life.
7. We believe all children who die before the age of accountability or who die innocently are automatically saved in the kingdom of God. Catholics believe that infants who die without baptism are doomed to burn in a lake of fire for eternity.
8. We believe that man will be punished for their own sins and not for Adam's transgression.
9. We believe it was a literal fruit from a tree that Adam and Eve partook of, whereas Catholics believe the "fruit" was sexual intercourse.
10. We believe our Bishops and Priesthood should get married and have families with children of their own, while Catholicism teaches their priests to be celibate and single.
11. We believe in a masculine and strong Jesus, while Catholics portray him as VERY feminine.

These are a few off the top of my head. There are many others but these are of the most importance.

2. What would the dems use in 2012 against Mitt Romney? (Any controversial or politically incorrect issues, "special panties" being one obvious one)

If the dems try to attack Romney on religious grounds they will be shooting themselves down in 2012. It will make them look very silly because people will get to the bottom of the issue and Mitt will destroy Obama in a debate.

3. Do Mormons believe in the "Rapture"?

Although the word "Rapture" is not used in the Bible to describe the coming of Christ, we do believe the righteous will be caught up in air to meet him and avoid the fire and destruction that He will bring down on the wicked remainder. The "righteous" will be chosen based upon the purity of their heart and not their church affiliation.

 

[Truthspeaker]

the trouble with mormons are they believe everything joe wrote in the book of mormon, but believe only parts of what the apostals who were with jesus wrote.

At what point will you learn knowledge? At what point will you learn to comprehend what someone says back to you. We answer a question directly as directly could be and you look at the sun at noonday and say it's not shining.

Why do you have to

As I said earlier, he is just playing a juvenile "gotcha" game, and isn't really interested in what anyone else has to say.

He should simply be ignored, if at all possible.

If I weren't the OP I would ignore many people who have posted nonsense in this arena. However it is my responsibility to respond to everything.

 

[Truthspeaker]

At what point will you learn knowledge? At what point will you learn to comprehend what someone says back to you. We answer a question directly as directly could be and you look at the sun at noonday and say it's not shining.

Why do you have to

As I said earlier, he is just playing a juvenile "gotcha" game, and isn't really interested in what anyone else has to say.

He should simply be ignored, if at all possible.

Disregard the book of joe, and praise god not joe.

There is no book of Joe. We praise God, the father of Jesus and all of us. And there are no other gods before them. Joseph Smith taught us to praise them.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Why were these gold plates, never made available to be checked for authenticity

Good question. The plates WERE made available to 13 different people, all who swore to holding them.

Although the plates themselves were purposefully hidden from the "professors" of the day, a sample of the charactors found on the plates were submitted to two professors of ancient scholarship who pronounced the charactors to be authentic.

Why weren't the plates themselves presented. There are several reasons why:

1. This was to be a trial of faith. God has always worked this way. He always wants us to excercise faith before he proves anything to us.
2. It was a different time in Joseph's day and far less governed. Many people were trying to steal the plates from Joseph. The would be thieves knew he had them. They were thought to be made of pure gold which would have made them worth a fortune. If they were stolen, they would have been lost forever, probably melted down and traded in for the value.
3. God would not allow this priceless treasure of information to pass into the hands of corrupt men.

 

[Truthspeaker]

In case you all forgot, Glenn Beck is a mormon. Nuff said.

Good for him!

 

[Truthspeaker]

Why were these gold plates, never made available to be checked for authenticity

And exactly how would you authenticate them, pray tell?

To that point as a side note, the methods of carbon dating and other scientific authenticating methods used today were not known in 1830.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Why were these gold plates, never made available to be checked for authenticity

And exactly how would you authenticate them, pray tell?

how about the age of them.

The plates could be carbon dated if God decided to make them available again. And he will. We will all get to see them eventually. They would be carbon dated between 2600 and 1700 years old.

 

[Truthspeaker]

how about the age of them.

Can you do that with metal?

The way the age of a metal artifact is determined is by carefully excavating it and then determining at what level it was buried. The age of the other artifacts, bones, and so on at the same level would then determine the age of the metal artifact.

Were there any other items found with the plates? If any of them still exist, if they were made of any carbon compound, then it would be possible to date the plates. If the plates were found all by themselves, then it would lead a researcher to wonder why that is. Usually, a find is not just one object.

That's a great point. Joseph described the find thus:
1. The artifacts were contained in a box of "some kind of cement." This box was covered by a large stone with rounded edges which were partially buried by earth and leaves. The stone had to be pried off the box with a large fallen tree branch by wedging it under.

2. Inside the "cement" box there were several items. There were the plates themselves and "other things" with them. Two stones "laid crossways" at the bottom of the box. "on these rested the plates and other things." They were covered by a thin type of linen cloth which was very fragile at this point. There were two clear "stones fastened to silver bows" and "attached to a breastplate". These were the famous Urim and Thumim seer stones through which Joseph looked at the plates to get a translation of said plates.

3. There was also a sword with a precious steel blade and a pure gold hilt which is the original sword of Laban spoken of by Nephi and later passed down from general to general as a token of leadership. A very interesting piece to be sure.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Can you do that with metal?

The way the age of a metal artifact is determined is by carefully excavating it and then determining at what level it was buried. The age of the other artifacts, bones, and so on at the same level would then determine the age of the metal artifact.

Were there any other items found with the plates? If any of them still exist, if they were made of any carbon compound, then it would be possible to date the plates. If the plates were found all by themselves, then it would lead a researcher to wonder why that is. Usually, a find is not just one object.

That's a great point. Joseph described the find thus:
1. The artifacts were contained in a box of "some kind of cement." This box was covered by a large stone with rounded edges which were partially buried by earth and leaves. The stone had to be pried off the box with a large fallen tree branch by wedging it under.

2. Inside the "cement" box there were several items. There were the plates themselves and "other things" with them. Two stones "laid crossways" at the bottom of the box. "on these rested the plates and other things." They were covered by a thin type of linen cloth which was very fragile at this point. There were two clear "stones fastened to silver bows" and "attached to a breastplate". These were the famous Urim and Thumim seer stones through which Joseph looked at the plates to get a translation of said plates.

3. There was also a sword with a precious steel blade and a pure gold hilt which is the original sword of Laban spoken of by Nephi and later passed down from general to general as a token of leadership. A very interesting piece to be sure.

However he was lead or directed to the find by an Angel he did not stumble on it while out searching.

The box was a set aside for holding the plates and the devices to read the plates. And in the 1800's even if he had been interested in dating the find ( which it is my understanding he was not) the technology did not exist at the time to do so.

He alone was directed to the plates and as I recall he went alone to recover them. After the translations wasn't he also directed what to do with the plates and the means to decipher them?

Leaving us with the witnesses he was allowed or chose to show the plates to. The simple reality is that since it requires some measure of faith to believe the story and the find, some people are never going to believe it.

Part of the process for me of becoming a member was praying for answers to questions like that. I was instructed to seek through prayer my ability to believe those things that can not be physically proven. And to learn of the verification that did occur. The fact that witnesses to the gold plates left the Church but NEVER retracted their statements was a very big part of believing for me.

 

[Truthspeaker]

The way the age of a metal artifact is determined is by carefully excavating it and then determining at what level it was buried. The age of the other artifacts, bones, and so on at the same level would then determine the age of the metal artifact.

Were there any other items found with the plates? If any of them still exist, if they were made of any carbon compound, then it would be possible to date the plates. If the plates were found all by themselves, then it would lead a researcher to wonder why that is. Usually, a find is not just one object.

That's a great point. Joseph described the find thus:
1. The artifacts were contained in a box of "some kind of cement." This box was covered by a large stone with rounded edges which were partially buried by earth and leaves. The stone had to be pried off the box with a large fallen tree branch by wedging it under.

2. Inside the "cement" box there were several items. There were the plates themselves and "other things" with them. Two stones "laid crossways" at the bottom of the box. "on these rested the plates and other things." They were covered by a thin type of linen cloth which was very fragile at this point. There were two clear "stones fastened to silver bows" and "attached to a breastplate". These were the famous Urim and Thumim seer stones through which Joseph looked at the plates to get a translation of said plates.

3. There was also a sword with a precious steel blade and a pure gold hilt which is the original sword of Laban spoken of by Nephi and later passed down from general to general as a token of leadership. A very interesting piece to be sure.

However he was lead or directed to the find by an Angel he did not stumble on it while out searching.

The box was a set aside for holding the plates and the devices to read the plates. And in the 1800's even if he had been interested in dating the find ( which it is my understanding he was not) the technology did not exist at the time to do so.

He alone was directed to the plates and as I recall he went alone to recover them. After the translations wasn't he also directed what to do with the plates and the means to decipher them?

Leaving us with the witnesses he was allowed or chose to show the plates to. The simple reality is that since it requires some measure of faith to believe the story and the find, some people are never going to believe it.

Part of the process for me of becoming a member was praying for answers to questions like that. I was instructed to seek through prayer my ability to believe those things that can not be physically proven. And to learn of the verification that did occur. The fact that witnesses to the gold plates left the Church but NEVER retracted their statements was a very big part of believing for me.

Word of mouth testimonies are very powerful and I believe can be carried to the logical part of a person's brain whether true or false.

 

[Zona]

A lot of religions are fake, but any religion found in the states is phony. Look at Scientology. It is laughable as well. Just saying. Good luck idiots.

 

[Truthspeaker]

A lot of religions are fake, but any religion found in the states is phony. Look at Scientology. It is laughable as well. Just saying. Good luck idiots.

Our religion actually wasn't founded in the states. It was founded by Jesus way back when he introduced it to Adam.