The Troops are concerned about gays serving openly.

[bodecea]

On this subject we are going to have to agree to disagree James. My opinions were formed from a life time association with the U.S. Military. Unlike you I've never talked to any service member reqardless of component who agrees that gays serving openly in the military is a good idea. The feelings expressed to me are 100% in opposition to gays serving openly in the military. I agree with my brothers, and sisters in arms.

Maybe you should get out more an really talk to people, or maybe your "friends" are telling you what they think you want to hear (also known as the machismo factor).

Military times conducts an annual poll on the subject.

1. The percentage of active duty military opposing homosexuals serving has been steadily declining over the years.
2. Currently it's pretty close to a 50/50 split between those who oppose equal treatment and those who could care less if homosexuals were allowed to serve under equal conditions.

Military Times Poll


>>>>

Interesting, over 50% oppose overturning DADT and only 30% are in favor. And roughly 20% are afraid to speak out and take a stand.

Afraid?

 

[SFC Ollie]

Maybe you should get out more an really talk to people, or maybe your "friends" are telling you what they think you want to hear (also known as the machismo factor).

Military times conducts an annual poll on the subject.

1. The percentage of active duty military opposing homosexuals serving has been steadily declining over the years.
2. Currently it's pretty close to a 50/50 split between those who oppose equal treatment and those who could care less if homosexuals were allowed to serve under equal conditions.

Military Times Poll


>>>>

Interesting, over 50% oppose overturning DADT and only 30% are in favor. And roughly 20% are afraid to speak out and take a stand.

Afraid?

It's one way or one word to describe it. I'm sure others would do as well.

 

[Seawytch]

Interesting, over 50% oppose overturning DADT and only 30% are in favor. And roughly 20% are afraid to speak out and take a stand.

From the Military Times web site:

the Military Times survey is based on responses from those who chose to participate. That means it is impossible to calculate statistical margins of error commonly reported in opinion surveys, because those calculations depend on random sampling techniques.

The voluntary nature of the survey, the dependence on e-mail and the characteristics of Military Times readers could affect the results.
Sampling the military - Military News | News From Afghanistan, Iraq And Around The World - Military Times

Would you also like to put it in historical context and take a look at how the troops felt about desegregation?

3/4 Air Force men favored separate training schools, combat, and ground crews and 85% of white soldiers thought it was a good idea to have separate service clubs in army camps

Wonk Room » EXCLUSIVE: Records Show Military Surveyed Troops In 1940s, Prior To Racially Integrating The Forces

DADT is gone. All servicemembers will serve under the exact same rules and regulations from now on. Get over it and move on to gay marriage and DOMA...'cause that's what WE are concentrating on now

{ahem}

 

[gekaap]

You liberals have so many places to practice your politics, why do you go after the people who allow you to do that? Keep your politics in the streets and out of the military.

Wait a second. It's okay for homophobes to have their politics inserted into the military, but not okay for those who seek equality? It's also, apparently, okay to keep the constitution out of military law?

 

[gekaap]

Straight soldiers obviously can have HIV, but it's rare. Particularly for non-drug users. For all the liberal desire to declare it a non-gay disease, it always was a primarily gay disease. But that's only if you believe facts that are so and don't call what you want to happen "facts."

Anyone who wants to babble on about this HIV bullshit needs to show hard data that shows the rate of HIV infection among soldiers, and then breaks it up between gay and straight soldiers. Otherwise, you're just talking out of your ass.

 

[gekaap]

I want the military for the most part to set their own rules on gays in the military.

Should we also allow the military to make its own rules to prohibit blacks, or women?

I don't think they should ban gays because of blackmail of gay soldiers. It may not have happened every day, but apparently it has through the years lead to some pretty serious espionage. They commit espionage or give up their careers, now that is not fair and it's an actual military reason I hold that view.

If you're going to spout off BS like that, citation needed. Many citations.

 

[gekaap]

Gotcha, so cervical cancer's not a women's disease either.

He said "gay or straight." Said nothing about "male or female." So, you've got nothing.

 

[sinister59]

I had a conversation with my oldest son yesterday. He is career military. He just finished his fourth sensitivity training class about gays serving openly in the military. The troops can't comment on this issue or make disparaging remarks about the CinC. They've been advised that this is the way it will be; live with it.

In all of the classes they've been given one thing has been left out. The danger of HIV infection through direct contact with blood. Blood is the biggest bio-hazard on any accident scene. Civilians will say put on surgical gloves. A soldier would say that when you're wearing your buddies brains all over your face that wont do any good.

As a soldier I could count on my buddies doing everything in their power to bring me or my body back home. My buddies could count on the same thing from me. An openly gay soldier on the battlefield will lay where they fall. This is a very real degradation of military core values. Yet the troops feel that touching the openly gay soldiers blood would expose them to the very really threat of AIDS. That is a death sentence that will be resisted.

Morale is already being affected in a very negative way. The troops feel like they're being kicked in the stomach, and that they're being put into a life threatening situation. Once again people who've never served a second in uniform are making life threatening decisions that will carry dire consequences for the young men and women that this country sends into harms way. I think that congress, and the president need sensitivity training.

in group for vets one guy was a member of the path finders , they initiated him by raping him ,
now I mention pathfinders because they tried getting me in it wile headed for a helicopter company , it seems male rape is ok for initiation ? and you worry about gays ?
as fare HIV ? John Cochran VA hospital gave one patient HIV and a lot were infected with Hepatitis . through dirty instruments , it seem they don't believe in sterilizing their tools .

the troops were unhappy with integration too , should we separate non whites from whites ? they said they's rape any women asigned to them , just what kind of soldier is your son ?

 

[SFC Ollie]

Why the hell do people keep trying to compare gays with Blacks?

I'm sorry to inform you that one is a racist problem (Yes there is still racism out there) and the other is a cultural problem. (To say it one way)

At any rate there is no comparison.

And don't give me all the BS I've heard all the arguments, they do not match.

 

[gekaap]

Why the hell do people keep trying to compare gays with Blacks?

I'm sorry to inform you that one is a racist problem (Yes there is still racism out there) and the other is a cultural problem. (To say it one way)

At any rate there is no comparison.

And don't give me all the BS I've heard all the arguments, they do not match.

Racism isn't a cultural problem?

 

[sinister59]

Why the hell do people keep trying to compare gays with Blacks?

I'm sorry to inform you that one is a racist problem (Yes there is still racism out there) and the other is a cultural problem. (To say it one way)

At any rate there is no comparison.

And don't give me all the BS I've heard all the arguments, they do not match.

and why do you wear a dress ?
its not about racism its about the troops doing what their told ,accepting who ever is assigned to a unit , so its not a cultural problem , its the troops doing what their told , in the military you have no opinion just orders .

 

[Seawytch]

Why the hell do people keep trying to compare gays with Blacks?

I'm sorry to inform you that one is a racist problem (Yes there is still racism out there) and the other is a cultural problem. (To say it one way)

At any rate there is no comparison.

And don't give me all the BS I've heard all the arguments, they do not match.

Nobody is comparing sexual orientation to race, but comparing discrimination to discrimination. Just because one school of thought, homophobia, is personally supported by you and racism isn't, doesn't make you more right than the racists. (you're both wrong and you both think your views are justified)

 

[SFC Ollie]

Why the hell do people keep trying to compare gays with Blacks?

I'm sorry to inform you that one is a racist problem (Yes there is still racism out there) and the other is a cultural problem. (To say it one way)

At any rate there is no comparison.

And don't give me all the BS I've heard all the arguments, they do not match.

Nobody is comparing sexual orientation to race, but comparing discrimination to discrimination. Just because one school of thought, homophobia, is personally supported by you and racism isn't, doesn't make you more right than the racists. (you're both wrong and you both think your views are justified)

There we go again, Since when am I homophobic? If you actually knew anything about me you would already know that my stepson is gay.

I do not believe that this is a wise decision especially during time of war.

I believe it will cause problems that the US Military does not need at this time.

We shall see. But don't go calling me names when you know nothing....

Discrimination is discrimination, this is true, but there is still a wide difference.

 

[Gadawg73]

Why the hell do people keep trying to compare gays with Blacks?

I'm sorry to inform you that one is a racist problem (Yes there is still racism out there) and the other is a cultural problem. (To say it one way)

At any rate there is no comparison.

And don't give me all the BS I've heard all the arguments, they do not match.

Nobody is comparing sexual orientation to race, but comparing discrimination to discrimination. Just because one school of thought, homophobia, is personally supported by you and racism isn't, doesn't make you more right than the racists. (you're both wrong and you both think your views are justified)

There we go again, Since when am I homophobic? If you actually knew anything about me you would already know that my stepson is gay.

I do not believe that this is a wise decision especially during time of war.

I believe it will cause problems that the US Military does not need at this time.

We shall see. But don't go calling me names when you know nothing....

Discrimination is discrimination, this is true, but there is still a wide difference.

I disagree with Ollie on this 100% but do not believe him to be homophobic.
He reminds me so much of another career military man, a man we call Vike that was 25 year Army. Vike now stands for the repeal but didn't before. Give Ollie time.

 

[bodecea]

Why the hell do people keep trying to compare gays with Blacks?

I'm sorry to inform you that one is a racist problem (Yes there is still racism out there) and the other is a cultural problem. (To say it one way)

At any rate there is no comparison.

And don't give me all the BS I've heard all the arguments, they do not match.

gays are not compared to blacks...that's the simpleton's answer.

Discrimination against one minority is compared to discrimination against another minority.

You might as well ask, why are women being compared to blacks when it comes to women's rights....or why are the handicapped compared to blacks when it comes to handicapped rights.

To say it's about race is the simpleton's answer....it's about discrimination.

 

[kaz]

I'm trying to suss out your position. You seem to be saying that not using the "f" word for gay man is being politically correct, but not using the "n" word isn't being politically correct. Is that about right?

No, you're still just making it up. I said nothing about using the "f" word either. Why don't you read my posts and respond to points I am making rather then making up points you want me to have made?

I stated that using the f-word for gay man is disrespectful and not using it isn't being politically correct. Your response was "Yeah it is".

What other conclusion am I to draw from that?

You're going to have to show me that post. Something was misunderstood there. I'm not hung up either way on words like you are and I don't think the word "***" in itself is either offensive or not offensive. Not only do I not remember saying what you said, but it's not something that I would say. You're either thinking of someone else or that's not what I was referring to.

 

[kaz]

You liberals have so many places to practice your politics, why do you go after the people who allow you to do that? Keep your politics in the streets and out of the military.

Wait a second. It's okay for homophobes to have their politics inserted into the military, but not okay for those who seek equality? It's also, apparently, okay to keep the constitution out of military law?

No idea what you're talking about. Then again you don't know what you're talking about either. Can you turn this into a coherent question and I'll take a stab at it?

 

[kaz]

Straight soldiers obviously can have HIV, but it's rare. Particularly for non-drug users. For all the liberal desire to declare it a non-gay disease, it always was a primarily gay disease. But that's only if you believe facts that are so and don't call what you want to happen "facts."

Anyone who wants to babble on about this HIV bullshit needs to show hard data that shows the rate of HIV infection among soldiers, and then breaks it up between gay and straight soldiers. Otherwise, you're just talking out of your ass.

I said HIV in general, I didn't say anything about HIV among soldiers. Since you raised the HIV rate among soldiers actually you're the one talking out of your ass until you show that it's not dramatically different.

 

[gekaap]

There we go again, Since when am I homophobic? If you actually knew anything about me you would already know that my stepson is gay.

So you're telling us that your stepson should not be able to serve in the military? That if he did serve in the military he should be required to remain abstinent and that he should be prohibited from even talking to his mother about his sexuality?

I do not believe that this is a wise decision especially during time of war.

You think that people's constitutional rights should be ignored just because it's a time of war?

I believe it will cause problems that the US Military does not need at this time.

Wait a second...we have the world's mightiest military, and two boys holding hands is going to somehow cause problems?

We shall see. But don't go calling me names when you know nothing....

Of course, nobody here knows anything except you. You're the only one here who has served in the military. You're the only expert in the world on the subject. The current heads of our military institutions are of course unknowning.

Discrimination is discrimination, this is true, but there is still a wide difference.

If you don't understand how incredibly stupid a thing that was to say, then you should spend your time on things that don't require any thought. Because you're obviously not good at it.

 

[kaz]

I want the military for the most part to set their own rules on gays in the military.

Should we also allow the military to make its own rules to prohibit blacks, or women?

Depends on the rule, just like for gays.

I don't think they should ban gays because of blackmail of gay soldiers. It may not have happened every day, but apparently it has through the years lead to some pretty serious espionage. They commit espionage or give up their careers, now that is not fair and it's an actual military reason I hold that view.

If you're going to spout off BS like that, citation needed. Many citations.

I said it's...wait for it...not fair...to put a soldier in position to have to choose between sacrificing his career and supporting espionage. Since that's not in conflict with anything you've argued, I'm not interested in your sending me on a search. Sorry.