The Troops are concerned about gays serving openly.

[kaz]

How many active soldiers are HIV positive?

Straight soldiers can't have HIV?

Straight soldiers obviously can have HIV, but it's rare. Particularly for non-drug users. For all the liberal desire to declare it a non-gay disease, it always was a primarily gay disease. But that's only if you believe facts that are so and don't call what you want to happen "facts."

A disease is neither gay or straight. A disease is a disease.

Gotcha, so cervical cancer's not a women's disease either.

 

[kaz]

You assume the majority want open service because of a "political need" yet offer ZERO EVIDENCE to back up any of your argument.
What political need to I have?

I want the military for the most part to set their own rules on gays in the military. I don't think they should ban gays because of blackmail of gay soldiers. It may not have happened every day, but apparently it has through the years lead to some pretty serious espionage. They commit espionage or give up their careers, now that is not fair and it's an actual military reason I hold that view.

You on the other hand keep talking about their need to tell and that you want them to tell. That has zero to do with the military. It is a political objective because it's a political argument. This is government, it is not freedom of the people from government. The latter is the subject of the Constitution. You want to make the political statement about gays, go for it. But on the street, not in the military.

Well, I agree with you that political statements should not be made in the military.
But you still offer NO evidence whatsoever that my argument is based on a political statement.
Equal oppurtunity is not a political statement. Discrimination is discrimination.
Your argument is a bogus one anyway. Admiral Mullen IS THE DAMN MILITARY.
Offer some evidence ADMIRAL MULLEN is making a political statement.

They have equal opportunity, you've argued nothing but the political point you want them to need to tell people where they put their pecker

 

[kaz]

Well, I agree with you that political statements should not be made in the military.
But you still offer NO evidence whatsoever that my argument is based on a political statement.
Equal oppurtunity is not a political statement. Discrimination is discrimination.
Your argument is a bogus one anyway. Admiral Mullen IS THE DAMN MILITARY.
Offer some evidence ADMIRAL MULLEN is making a political statement.

If stating that homosexuals should be treated the same as heterosexuals is a political statement?

Then wouldn't stating that the military should discriminate against homosexual service members over to heterosexuals also be a political statement?

No, the military is saying it would be disruptive to the service. I am not military, but my family is. They don't care about gays, but they agree with the military it would be disruptive to service and cause a lot of problems.

The military is government and what they are doing in incredible. Why can't you fight your gay war in the public rather then forcing your political objectives on people who are fighting enemies like the Taliban? Win it here, attitudes will change, the military will change. That you feel it's necessary to take this fight to the military with what they are doing now is just pathetic.

 

[kaz]

Gekaap, Seawtch, and Bodecea, it amazes me...

From a straight, white, Republican, old fart retired Chief.


................................................................ Thank you for your service.



>>>>

The quote in your post was made by yota5, not me

 

[yota5]

Dang! I took a couple of hours off to go fishing, and the same gays are logged in blowing the same smoke. None of you commenting on this issue in support of gays have a frame of reference with which to form an opinion. You haven't served in the military, or even talked to a soldier. You folks hold soldiers in contempt, and you don't like them.

So let me tell you what you've accomplished. Nothing. No matter how much demented smoke you blow things will remain the same. You folks are still gay, and sexual deviants still shouldn't be allowed to serve in the military. Sorry gang that is just the way things are.

Well you keep ignoring my simple question. But I can assure you that I come from a big military family, both of my grandfathers-one was in the battle of the bulge (army), the other fought in WW2, Korea, and Vietnam-and is currently interred at Arlington (air force)-actually two of my relatives are interred there. My father was in the air force. My uncle was in the navy. My cousin is over in Afghanistan right now. You bet your ass I would have joined the military, I tried but was unable to due to having a bad leg from a bad car accident in my teenage years. Now I may not know from personal experience-you wont see me pretending that here. I have too much respect for people who have served to pretend to have been one (although I certainly would if I could). But I have talked to the many people I know about gays serving in the military-and not one of them said they wouldn't care. I can form an informed decision based upon that.

Once again thank you for your service-regardless of your personal views. However don't make the mistake in thinking your family's experience/views of the military is the only one.

And for the record-I'm straight.

Good morning James. From your post you and I have a lot in common. My father was career Air Force. He served with the Army during WW2 then transitioned to the Air Force. My Uncles served in the Navy duing WW2. My boys have served in OEF/ OIF. Multiple tours with the 101st ABN/ Air Assault, the 278th RCT, and 82nd Air Borne. I served with 1/73rd Arty 1st AD, 1/27th Inf. and 1/38th Inf. 2nd. Inf. Div, and 1/22nd Arty 4th AD. My families military history goes back to the revulutionary war.

James I can spot a smoke blower a mile away. You aren't on of those people, and I can sense the sincerity in your reply. I will respond to you in kind.



I can understand your desire to serve. Service to ones country is a privilage. Sometimes medical conditions prevent your service. This happened with my youngest son when he attempted to enlist. He was turned back after his physical at MEPS. For those of you who haven't served MEPS stands for Military Entrance Processing Station.

Since military service can place you in potentially life threating, very harsh environments physical ability is a rigidly enforced requirement. James, I can spot a smoke blower a mile away. You aren't on of those people, and I can sense the sincerity in your reply. I will respond to you in kind.

This thread has proven that gays serving in the military is a hot button issue. Most of the replys to this thread have been from the same group of people who support the abolishment of DADT. Others voice their frustration with this topic, and then move on.

While the troops can't comment many of them follow this thread. I've sent my sons the URL to this discussion. They consider some of the replies here comical. Others really tick them off. Unfortunately they've been ordered to silence. You'll never here their opinions posted here. You know how tha goes. "Go forth and die as instructed youngman. Remember keep your mouth shut. You're opinions and feelings arn't considered important here."

On this subject we are going to have to agree to disagree James. My opinions were formed from a life time association with the U.S. Military. Unlike you I've never talked to any service member reqardless of component who agrees that gays serving openly in the military is a good idea. The feelings expressed to me are 100% in opposition to gays serving openly in the military. I agree with my brothers, and sisters in arms.

I'm sorry that I missed your questions. sometimes replies come so fast it is difficult to respond to everyone. Let me correct that situation now.

James in Florida, asks the following questions:

1. Once again: what would you say to somebody you served with who came out of the closet tomorrow? (hypothetically speaking of course).

A: Should that happen today neither one of us would be serving in the military. As a civilian we are entiltled to live our lives as we choose. Our lifestyles don't impact the military in any measureable degree.

2. And the military can't ask every single person in the military what their thoughts or feelings are-there's way too many. And this is about all issues-not just DADT.

A: All of that is true.

3. And if you don't want a job where you do what you're told to, and your feelings aren't taken into consideration, the solution is simple: don't join the military.

A: That is also true.

4. Lastly-to think that your son(s), or yourself speak on behalf of the entire military, is one of the most arrogant things I've ever heard of.

A: If the case could be made that I or my sons are speaking for the entire military I would agree that these opinions would be extremely presumptious, and arrogant. What I've said here is my opinion, based on my lives experiance. I've also included the opinions of those military people that I know. I'm still waiting to talk face to face with military person who disagrees with me.

5. And thank you for your service.

A: Thank you for the kind words James. They are appreciated. I wish you the best. Live long and prosper.

 

[rikules]

Reading some of the replies from the gays responding to this thread has led me to a valid conclusion. Gays, aren't only sexual deviants they are really stupid people. Gekaap, Seawtch, and Bodecea, it amazes me that you folks are allowed to walk the streets unsupervised.

allowed to?

should they wear pink triangles?

or would you just prefer ovens and gas chambers?

 

[kaz]

Reading some of the replies from the gays responding to this thread has led me to a valid conclusion. Gays, aren't only sexual deviants they are really stupid people. Gekaap, Seawtch, and Bodecea, it amazes me that you folks are allowed to walk the streets unsupervised.

allowed to?

should they wear pink triangles?

or would you just prefer ovens and gas chambers?

A pink triangle? Wow, talk about anti-gay stereotypes. Why do you hate them so much?

BTW, I think you meant a purple triangle...

 

[WorldWatcher]

Gekaap, Seawtch, and Bodecea, it amazes me...

From a straight, white, Republican, old fart retired Chief.


................................................................ Thank you for your service.



>>>>

The quote in your post was made by yota5, not me

You have my sincere apologies, mistake in editing.

I have corrected the original post and my quote here. If you care to delete your quote of my post, that should straighten it out for readers to follow.


Sorry,

WW


>>>>

 

[yota5]

Reading some of the replies from the gays responding to this thread has led me to a valid conclusion. Gays, aren't only sexual deviants they are really stupid people. Gekaap, Seawtch, and Bodecea, it amazes me that you folks are allowed to walk the streets unsupervised.

allowed to?

should they wear pink triangles?

or would you just prefer ovens and gas chambers?

Written like a true liberal. Your komrads will be appreciative of your effort. The rest of us will take comfort in the fact that our assessment of you is correct.

 

[WorldWatcher]

On this subject we are going to have to agree to disagree James. My opinions were formed from a life time association with the U.S. Military. Unlike you I've never talked to any service member reqardless of component who agrees that gays serving openly in the military is a good idea. The feelings expressed to me are 100% in opposition to gays serving openly in the military. I agree with my brothers, and sisters in arms.

Maybe you should get out more an really talk to people, or maybe your "friends" are telling you what they think you want to hear (also known as the machismo factor).

Military times conducts an annual poll on the subject.

1. The percentage of active duty military opposing homosexuals serving has been steadily declining over the years.
2. Currently it's pretty close to a 50/50 split between those who oppose equal treatment and those who could care less if homosexuals were allowed to serve under equal conditions.

Military Times Poll


>>>>

 

[kaz]

From a straight, white, Republican, old fart retired Chief.


................................................................ Thank you for your service.



>>>>

The quote in your post was made by yota5, not me

You have my sincere apologies, mistake in editing.

I have corrected the original post and my quote here. If you care to delete your quote of my post, that should straighten it out for readers to follow.


Sorry,

WW


>>>>

I know it was an honest mistake. If the quote weren't being repeated so much I wouldn't have pointed it out at all.

 

[WorldWatcher]

The quote in your post was made by yota5, not me

You have my sincere apologies, mistake in editing.

I have corrected the original post and my quote here. If you care to delete your quote of my post, that should straighten it out for readers to follow.


Sorry,

WW


>>>>

I know it was an honest mistake. If the quote weren't being repeated so much I wouldn't have pointed it out at all.

Thank you.


>>>>

 

[SFC Ollie]

On this subject we are going to have to agree to disagree James. My opinions were formed from a life time association with the U.S. Military. Unlike you I've never talked to any service member reqardless of component who agrees that gays serving openly in the military is a good idea. The feelings expressed to me are 100% in opposition to gays serving openly in the military. I agree with my brothers, and sisters in arms.

Maybe you should get out more an really talk to people, or maybe your "friends" are telling you what they think you want to hear (also known as the machismo factor).

Military times conducts an annual poll on the subject.

1. The percentage of active duty military opposing homosexuals serving has been steadily declining over the years.
2. Currently it's pretty close to a 50/50 split between those who oppose equal treatment and those who could care less if homosexuals were allowed to serve under equal conditions.

Military Times Poll


>>>>

Interesting, over 50% oppose overturning DADT and only 30% are in favor. And roughly 20% are afraid to speak out and take a stand.

 

[JamesInFlorida]

Dang! I took a couple of hours off to go fishing, and the same gays are logged in blowing the same smoke. None of you commenting on this issue in support of gays have a frame of reference with which to form an opinion. You haven't served in the military, or even talked to a soldier. You folks hold soldiers in contempt, and you don't like them.

So let me tell you what you've accomplished. Nothing. No matter how much demented smoke you blow things will remain the same. You folks are still gay, and sexual deviants still shouldn't be allowed to serve in the military. Sorry gang that is just the way things are.

Well you keep ignoring my simple question. But I can assure you that I come from a big military family, both of my grandfathers-one was in the battle of the bulge (army), the other fought in WW2, Korea, and Vietnam-and is currently interred at Arlington (air force)-actually two of my relatives are interred there. My father was in the air force. My uncle was in the navy. My cousin is over in Afghanistan right now. You bet your ass I would have joined the military, I tried but was unable to due to having a bad leg from a bad car accident in my teenage years. Now I may not know from personal experience-you wont see me pretending that here. I have too much respect for people who have served to pretend to have been one (although I certainly would if I could). But I have talked to the many people I know about gays serving in the military-and not one of them said they wouldn't care. I can form an informed decision based upon that.

Once again thank you for your service-regardless of your personal views. However don't make the mistake in thinking your family's experience/views of the military is the only one.

And for the record-I'm straight.

Good morning James. From your post you and I have a lot in common. My father was career Air Force. He served with the Army during WW2 then transitioned to the Air Force. My Uncles served in the Navy duing WW2. My boys have served in OEF/ OIF. Multiple tours with the 101st ABN/ Air Assault, the 278th RCT, and 82nd Air Borne. I served with 1/73rd Arty 1st AD, 1/27th Inf. and 1/38th Inf. 2nd. Inf. Div, and 1/22nd Arty 4th AD. My families military history goes back to the revulutionary war.

James I can spot a smoke blower a mile away. You aren't on of those people, and I can sense the sincerity in your reply. I will respond to you in kind.



I can understand your desire to serve. Service to ones country is a privilage. Sometimes medical conditions prevent your service. This happened with my youngest son when he attempted to enlist. He was turned back after his physical at MEPS. For those of you who haven't served MEPS stands for Military Entrance Processing Station.

Since military service can place you in potentially life threating, very harsh environments physical ability is a rigidly enforced requirement. James, I can spot a smoke blower a mile away. You aren't on of those people, and I can sense the sincerity in your reply. I will respond to you in kind.

This thread has proven that gays serving in the military is a hot button issue. Most of the replys to this thread have been from the same group of people who support the abolishment of DADT. Others voice their frustration with this topic, and then move on.

While the troops can't comment many of them follow this thread. I've sent my sons the URL to this discussion. They consider some of the replies here comical. Others really tick them off. Unfortunately they've been ordered to silence. You'll never here their opinions posted here. You know how tha goes. "Go forth and die as instructed youngman. Remember keep your mouth shut. You're opinions and feelings arn't considered important here."

On this subject we are going to have to agree to disagree James. My opinions were formed from a life time association with the U.S. Military. Unlike you I've never talked to any service member reqardless of component who agrees that gays serving openly in the military is a good idea. The feelings expressed to me are 100% in opposition to gays serving openly in the military. I agree with my brothers, and sisters in arms.

I'm sorry that I missed your questions. sometimes replies come so fast it is difficult to respond to everyone. Let me correct that situation now.

James in Florida, asks the following questions:

1. Once again: what would you say to somebody you served with who came out of the closet tomorrow? (hypothetically speaking of course).

A: Should that happen today neither one of us would be serving in the military. As a civilian we are entiltled to live our lives as we choose. Our lifestyles don't impact the military in any measureable degree.

2. And the military can't ask every single person in the military what their thoughts or feelings are-there's way too many. And this is about all issues-not just DADT.

A: All of that is true.

3. And if you don't want a job where you do what you're told to, and your feelings aren't taken into consideration, the solution is simple: don't join the military.

A: That is also true.

4. Lastly-to think that your son(s), or yourself speak on behalf of the entire military, is one of the most arrogant things I've ever heard of.

A: If the case could be made that I or my sons are speaking for the entire military I would agree that these opinions would be extremely presumptious, and arrogant. What I've said here is my opinion, based on my lives experiance. I've also included the opinions of those military people that I know. I'm still waiting to talk face to face with military person who disagrees with me.

5. And thank you for your service.

A: Thank you for the kind words James. They are appreciated. I wish you the best. Live long and prosper.

I too will agree to disagree. Thanks for a cordial response.


Best of luck to you, and your sons in the future, I sincerely hope they come back safely.

 

[yota5]

"I too will agree to disagree. Thanks for a cordial response.
Best of luck to you, and your sons in the future, I sincerely hope they come back safely." (James in Florida)

No need to thank me for a cordial response James. This is as it should be. To disagree about a subject, and then debate an issue is human nature. For me a good spirited debate is a way to test my theory, or assumption, and to determine whether I've made a valid assessment or not.

We all know that debate doesn't always produce a clear winner. Stalemates are common. That is the case with our continued disagreement. However, I think that we've parted in a friendly manner, and both of us feel comfortable with our position.

I wish you the best, and I look forward to debating issues with you in the future.

 

[Gadawg73]

Straight soldiers obviously can have HIV, but it's rare. Particularly for non-drug users. For all the liberal desire to declare it a non-gay disease, it always was a primarily gay disease. But that's only if you believe facts that are so and don't call what you want to happen "facts."

A disease is neither gay or straight. A disease is a disease.

Gotcha, so cervical cancer's not a women's disease either.

A disease is neither gay or straight. A disease is a disease.

Gay women and straight women can BOTH get cervical cancer.

A disease is neither gay or straight. A disease is a disease.

Strike two, wave another BS liner out there and it will be STRIKE THREE and sit the pine.

 

[Gadawg73]

Well, I agree with you that political statements should not be made in the military.
But you still offer NO evidence whatsoever that my argument is based on a political statement.
Equal oppurtunity is not a political statement. Discrimination is discrimination.
Your argument is a bogus one anyway. Admiral Mullen IS THE DAMN MILITARY.
Offer some evidence ADMIRAL MULLEN is making a political statement.

If stating that homosexuals should be treated the same as heterosexuals is a political statement?

Then wouldn't stating that the military should discriminate against homosexual service members over to heterosexuals also be a political statement?

No, the military is saying it would be disruptive to the service. I am not military, but my family is. They don't care about gays, but they agree with the military it would be disruptive to service and cause a lot of problems.

The military is government and what they are doing in incredible. Why can't you fight your gay war in the public rather then forcing your political objectives on people who are fighting enemies like the Taliban? Win it here, attitudes will change, the military will change. That you feel it's necessary to take this fight to the military with what they are doing now is just pathetic.

Respectfully there my man but you are not too swift there.
THE MILITARY are the ones THAT ARE SPONSORING AND SUPPORTING THE REPEAL.
Hate to bust your bubble there old fellow but Admiral Mullen is in the military.

 

[SFC Ollie]

On October 10, 2009, Obama stated in a speech before the Human Rights Campaign that he will end the ban, but offered no timetable. As president, Obama said in his first State of the Union Address in 2010, "This year, I will work with Congress and our military to finally repeal the law that denies gay Americans the right to serve the country they love because of who they are."

It began as a political movement. The military are simply backing the Boss. Still wrong, and very bad timing in my opinion.

 

[Seawytch]

Can you show me my post where I advocated using the "n" word? I don't remember taking a position on that. Refresh my memory.

I'm trying to suss out your position. You seem to be saying that not using the "f" word for gay man is being politically correct, but not using the "n" word isn't being politically correct. Is that about right?

No, you're still just making it up. I said nothing about using the "f" word either. Why don't you read my posts and respond to points I am making rather then making up points you want me to have made?

I stated that using the f-word for gay man is disrespectful and not using it isn't being politically correct. Your response was "Yeah it is".

What other conclusion am I to draw from that?

 

[Seawytch]

On this subject we are going to have to agree to disagree James. My opinions were formed from a life time association with the U.S. Military. Unlike you I've never talked to any service member reqardless of component who agrees that gays serving openly in the military is a good idea. The feelings expressed to me are 100% in opposition to gays serving openly in the military. I agree with my brothers, and sisters in arms.

Maybe you should get out more an really talk to people, or maybe your "friends" are telling you what they think you want to hear (also known as the machismo factor).

Military times conducts an annual poll on the subject.

1. The percentage of active duty military opposing homosexuals serving has been steadily declining over the years.
2. Currently it's pretty close to a 50/50 split between those who oppose equal treatment and those who could care less if homosexuals were allowed to serve under equal conditions.

Military Times Poll


>>>>

Interesting, over 50% oppose overturning DADT and only 30% are in favor. And roughly 20% are afraid to speak out and take a stand.

From the Military Times web site:

the Military Times survey is based on responses from those who chose to participate. That means it is impossible to calculate statistical margins of error commonly reported in opinion surveys, because those calculations depend on random sampling techniques.

The voluntary nature of the survey, the dependence on e-mail and the characteristics of Military Times readers could affect the results.
Sampling the military - Military News | News From Afghanistan, Iraq And Around The World - Military Times

Would you also like to put it in historical context and take a look at how the troops felt about desegregation?

3/4 Air Force men favored separate training schools, combat, and ground crews and 85% of white soldiers thought it was a good idea to have separate service clubs in army camps

Wonk Room » EXCLUSIVE: Records Show Military Surveyed Troops In 1940s, Prior To Racially Integrating The Forces

DADT is gone. All servicemembers will serve under the exact same rules and regulations from now on. Get over it and move on to gay marriage and DOMA...'cause that's what WE are concentrating on now