The Steele Dossier: How Does it Hold Up?

[georgephillip]

Respect is earned and when you claim an opinion can be wrong you lose it. Sorry. That is complete Fascism.

Opinions can be true or false.

opinion - Google Search

"o·pin·ion
/əˈpinyən/
noun

1. a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
   "I'm writing to voice my opinion on an issue of great importance"
   synonyms: belief, judgment, thought(s), (way of) thinking, mind, (point of) view, viewpoint, outlook, attitude, stance, position, perspective, persuasion, standpoint; More"

An opinion cannot be wrong.

For centuries a majority of literate human beings believed the sun went around the earth; was their opinion wrong?

 

[forkup]

Respect is earned and when you claim an opinion can be wrong you lose it. Sorry. That is complete Fascism.

Opinions can be true or false.

opinion - Google Search

"o·pin·ion
/əˈpinyən/
noun

1. a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
   "I'm writing to voice my opinion on an issue of great importance"
   synonyms: belief, judgment, thought(s), (way of) thinking, mind, (point of) view, viewpoint, outlook, attitude, stance, position, perspective, persuasion, standpoint; More"

An opinion cannot be wrong.

For centuries a majority of literate human beings believed the sun went around the earth; was their opinion wrong?

Don't you know, after it was proven wrong it was no longer an opinion just an incorrect statement,lol. Azog likes to redefine language.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Respect is earned and when you claim an opinion can be wrong you lose it. Sorry. That is complete Fascism.

Opinions can be true or false.

opinion - Google Search

"o·pin·ion
/əˈpinyən/
noun

1. a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
   "I'm writing to voice my opinion on an issue of great importance"
   synonyms: belief, judgment, thought(s), (way of) thinking, mind, (point of) view, viewpoint, outlook, attitude, stance, position, perspective, persuasion, standpoint; More"

This part of the conversation has been pretty surreal . Azog seems to have problems with the difference between opinions and facts and for some reason sees no problem in pursuing something so outrageous it becomes ridiculous.

I wonder if the term "Trump Derangement Syndrome" is about to take on a completely alternative meaning once Democrats take control of the House?

The fact that you favor divisiveness is sad.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Respect is earned and when you claim an opinion can be wrong you lose it. Sorry. That is complete Fascism.

My opinion is that pigs can fly. Now, that isn't a wrong opinion? Oh and stop talking about earning respect and that you lose respect when you don't give decent arguments. If that would be true you would have lost it the moment you claimed Trump didn't lie. Or made the ridiculous statement that opinions can't be wrong. I have given you argument after argument, only a few times did you even try to engage the premise on any of them. Just to withdraw in your own little cocoon when they became unsustainable.

Wrong. Science can prove that pigs cannot fly. If your opinion is someday pigs may fly that is a different story. An opinion cannot be wrong. Until you admit this we will never be civil. I reiterate. An opinion cannot be wrong. Learn English please.

Hey, the definition of opinion that YOU made me look up said that an opinion doesn't need facts to back it up. So why do you bring facts into the equation? Facts have no bearing on opinions remember? It's your opinion that Trump doesn't lie. I have given you a taped recording were Trump is lying. This would make that opinion wrong now, wouldn't it? You can't have it both ways. Make my stated opinion adhere to facts, while you don't need to establish the same.

I never said he doesn’t lie. I said He doesn’t lie more than the average person. Opinions cannot be wrong. Obviously if you bring me facts the opinion l, which was in the past becomes invalid. Stop using bold. I am Not a child. I can Read.

I am not saying he is right and he may be incompetent but he is not a spy or a liar.

Was this an opinion or an incorrect statement? And not only does he lie more then the average person but he probably lies more then 100 average people.Analysis | A year of unprecedented deception: Trump averaged 15 false claims a day in 2018 7600 untruths and counting. And before you yell fake news. If you want I'll give you further tapes of him speaking, or look on his twitter account and see how many outright lies I can find.

Opinion and they are not lies. If I say I am 6’4 but I am 6’3 it’s technically a lie but actually a fib. You are annoying. Again. Opinions cannot be wrong. What is your dog in this fight? Or do you just enjoy trolling me? Go pick a fight with someone else. Thank you. Stalker.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Respect is earned and when you claim an opinion can be wrong you lose it. Sorry. That is complete Fascism.

Opinions can be true or false.

opinion - Google Search

"o·pin·ion
/əˈpinyən/
noun

1. a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
   "I'm writing to voice my opinion on an issue of great importance"
   synonyms: belief, judgment, thought(s), (way of) thinking, mind, (point of) view, viewpoint, outlook, attitude, stance, position, perspective, persuasion, standpoint; More"

An opinion cannot be wrong.

For centuries a majority of literate human beings believed the sun went around the earth; was their opinion wrong?

Don't you know, after it was proven wrong it was no longer an opinion just an incorrect statement,lol. Azog likes to redefine language.

At the time it was not. They did not have the science to prove them wrong. Again. An opinion cannot be wrong.

 

[forkup]

My opinion is that pigs can fly. Now, that isn't a wrong opinion? Oh and stop talking about earning respect and that you lose respect when you don't give decent arguments. If that would be true you would have lost it the moment you claimed Trump didn't lie. Or made the ridiculous statement that opinions can't be wrong. I have given you argument after argument, only a few times did you even try to engage the premise on any of them. Just to withdraw in your own little cocoon when they became unsustainable.

Wrong. Science can prove that pigs cannot fly. If your opinion is someday pigs may fly that is a different story. An opinion cannot be wrong. Until you admit this we will never be civil. I reiterate. An opinion cannot be wrong. Learn English please.

Hey, the definition of opinion that YOU made me look up said that an opinion doesn't need facts to back it up. So why do you bring facts into the equation? Facts have no bearing on opinions remember? It's your opinion that Trump doesn't lie. I have given you a taped recording were Trump is lying. This would make that opinion wrong now, wouldn't it? You can't have it both ways. Make my stated opinion adhere to facts, while you don't need to establish the same.

I never said he doesn’t lie. I said He doesn’t lie more than the average person. Opinions cannot be wrong. Obviously if you bring me facts the opinion l, which was in the past becomes invalid. Stop using bold. I am Not a child. I can Read.

I am not saying he is right and he may be incompetent but he is not a spy or a liar.

Was this an opinion or an incorrect statement? And not only does he lie more then the average person but he probably lies more then 100 average people.Analysis | A year of unprecedented deception: Trump averaged 15 false claims a day in 2018 7600 untruths and counting. And before you yell fake news. If you want I'll give you further tapes of him speaking, or look on his twitter account and see how many outright lies I can find.

Opinion and they are not lies. If I say I am 6’4 but I am 6’3 it’s technically a lie but actually a fib. You are annoying. Again. Opinions cannot be wrong. What is your dog in this fight? Or do you just enjoy trolling me? Go pick a fight with someone else. Thank you. Stalker.

I don't see you giving up this by now, obviously ridiculous conversation. "Only technically lying", "opinions can't be wrong." And my bone is that you go so far in defense of your opinion that you have ventured in the realm of denying the meaning of words. Something that I find offensive because it's simply unreasonable.

 

[georgephillip]

Respect is earned and when you claim an opinion can be wrong you lose it. Sorry. That is complete Fascism.

Opinions can be true or false.

opinion - Google Search

"o·pin·ion
/əˈpinyən/
noun

1. a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
   "I'm writing to voice my opinion on an issue of great importance"
   synonyms: belief, judgment, thought(s), (way of) thinking, mind, (point of) view, viewpoint, outlook, attitude, stance, position, perspective, persuasion, standpoint; More"

This part of the conversation has been pretty surreal . Azog seems to have problems with the difference between opinions and facts and for some reason sees no problem in pursuing something so outrageous it becomes ridiculous.

I wonder if the term "Trump Derangement Syndrome" is about to take on a completely alternative meaning once Democrats take control of the House?

The fact that you favor divisiveness is sad.

There has been no more divisive president in my life than Donald Trump:

Trump seen by 66 percent in US as doing more to divide than unite country (POLL)

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Wrong. Science can prove that pigs cannot fly. If your opinion is someday pigs may fly that is a different story. An opinion cannot be wrong. Until you admit this we will never be civil. I reiterate. An opinion cannot be wrong. Learn English please.

Hey, the definition of opinion that YOU made me look up said that an opinion doesn't need facts to back it up. So why do you bring facts into the equation? Facts have no bearing on opinions remember? It's your opinion that Trump doesn't lie. I have given you a taped recording were Trump is lying. This would make that opinion wrong now, wouldn't it? You can't have it both ways. Make my stated opinion adhere to facts, while you don't need to establish the same.

I never said he doesn’t lie. I said He doesn’t lie more than the average person. Opinions cannot be wrong. Obviously if you bring me facts the opinion l, which was in the past becomes invalid. Stop using bold. I am Not a child. I can Read.

I am not saying he is right and he may be incompetent but he is not a spy or a liar.

Was this an opinion or an incorrect statement? And not only does he lie more then the average person but he probably lies more then 100 average people.Analysis | A year of unprecedented deception: Trump averaged 15 false claims a day in 2018 7600 untruths and counting. And before you yell fake news. If you want I'll give you further tapes of him speaking, or look on his twitter account and see how many outright lies I can find.

Opinion and they are not lies. If I say I am 6’4 but I am 6’3 it’s technically a lie but actually a fib. You are annoying. Again. Opinions cannot be wrong. What is your dog in this fight? Or do you just enjoy trolling me? Go pick a fight with someone else. Thank you. Stalker.

I don't see you giving up this by now, obviously ridiculous conversation. "Only technically lying", "opinions can't be wrong." And my bone is that you go so far in defense of your opinion that you have ventured in the realm of denying the meaning of words. Something that I find offensive because it's simply unreasonable.

Nope. Opinions are not based on fact and hence cannot be wrong. If you cannot see that you are not worth conversing with.

 

[georgephillip]

Nope. Opinions are not based on fact and hence cannot be wrong. If you cannot see that you are not worth conversing with.

https://www.bmcc.cuny.edu/lrc/studyskills/factsandopinions.pdf

"A fact is a statement that can be proven true or false.

"An opinion is an expression of a person’s feelings that cannot be proven.

"Opinions can be based on facts or emotions and sometimes they are meant to deliberately mislead others.

"Therefore, it is important to be aware of the author’s purpose and choice of language.

"Sometimes, the author lets the facts speak for themselves."

 

[BWK]

Nope. Opinions are not based on fact and hence cannot be wrong. If you cannot see that you are not worth conversing with.

https://www.bmcc.cuny.edu/lrc/studyskills/factsandopinions.pdf

"A fact is a statement that can be proven true or false.

"An opinion is an expression of a person’s feelings that cannot be proven.

"Opinions can be based on facts or emotions and sometimes they are meant to deliberately mislead others.

"Therefore, it is important to be aware of the author’s purpose and choice of language.

"Sometimes, the author lets the facts speak for themselves."

You just tossed a bucket of cold water on the debate. Lol!

 

[forkup]

Hey, the definition of opinion that YOU made me look up said that an opinion doesn't need facts to back it up. So why do you bring facts into the equation? Facts have no bearing on opinions remember? It's your opinion that Trump doesn't lie. I have given you a taped recording were Trump is lying. This would make that opinion wrong now, wouldn't it? You can't have it both ways. Make my stated opinion adhere to facts, while you don't need to establish the same.

I never said he doesn’t lie. I said He doesn’t lie more than the average person. Opinions cannot be wrong. Obviously if you bring me facts the opinion l, which was in the past becomes invalid. Stop using bold. I am Not a child. I can Read.

I am not saying he is right and he may be incompetent but he is not a spy or a liar.

Was this an opinion or an incorrect statement? And not only does he lie more then the average person but he probably lies more then 100 average people.Analysis | A year of unprecedented deception: Trump averaged 15 false claims a day in 2018 7600 untruths and counting. And before you yell fake news. If you want I'll give you further tapes of him speaking, or look on his twitter account and see how many outright lies I can find.

Opinion and they are not lies. If I say I am 6’4 but I am 6’3 it’s technically a lie but actually a fib. You are annoying. Again. Opinions cannot be wrong. What is your dog in this fight? Or do you just enjoy trolling me? Go pick a fight with someone else. Thank you. Stalker.

I don't see you giving up this by now, obviously ridiculous conversation. "Only technically lying", "opinions can't be wrong." And my bone is that you go so far in defense of your opinion that you have ventured in the realm of denying the meaning of words. Something that I find offensive because it's simply unreasonable.

Nope. Opinions are not based on fact and hence cannot be wrong. If you cannot see that you are not worth conversing with.

For the last time. The nature of reality does not change by calling it an opinion. Every person has opinions. Some of those opinions are wrong. Those opinions were wrong before they could be proven wrong, those opinions are wrong after they are proven unsustainable. The earth didn't change from flat to round when Aristotle first observed the truth of it. It didn't change from round to flat when it was rejected in the middle ages. The opinion of it being flat or round was completely disattached from the truth of it. It was always round. The fact that for some reason, you keep on insisting that an opinion, alters the reality of true or false is simply mind boggling.

 

[BWK]

In the mean time, not sure who hijacked the thread so many pages back, but no one on the Right has ever mounted a challenge against the accuracy of the Steele Dossier. The parts that have been investigated that is. So far, no one has been able to prove it is a lie, or an opinion. The information, according to investigators, matches its reporting against the evidence. Which is all that matters.

 

[BWK]

I never said he doesn’t lie. I said He doesn’t lie more than the average person. Opinions cannot be wrong. Obviously if you bring me facts the opinion l, which was in the past becomes invalid. Stop using bold. I am Not a child. I can Read.

I am not saying he is right and he may be incompetent but he is not a spy or a liar.

Was this an opinion or an incorrect statement? And not only does he lie more then the average person but he probably lies more then 100 average people.Analysis | A year of unprecedented deception: Trump averaged 15 false claims a day in 2018 7600 untruths and counting. And before you yell fake news. If you want I'll give you further tapes of him speaking, or look on his twitter account and see how many outright lies I can find.

Opinion and they are not lies. If I say I am 6’4 but I am 6’3 it’s technically a lie but actually a fib. You are annoying. Again. Opinions cannot be wrong. What is your dog in this fight? Or do you just enjoy trolling me? Go pick a fight with someone else. Thank you. Stalker.

I don't see you giving up this by now, obviously ridiculous conversation. "Only technically lying", "opinions can't be wrong." And my bone is that you go so far in defense of your opinion that you have ventured in the realm of denying the meaning of words. Something that I find offensive because it's simply unreasonable.

Nope. Opinions are not based on fact and hence cannot be wrong. If you cannot see that you are not worth conversing with.

For the last time. The nature of reality does not change by calling it an opinion. Every person has opinions. Some of those opinions are wrong. Those opinions were wrong before they could be proven wrong, those opinions are wrong after they are proven unsustainable. The earth didn't change from flat to round when Aristotle first observed the truth of it. It didn't change from round to flat when it was rejected in the middle ages. The opinion of it being flat or round was completely disattached from the truth of it. It was always round. The fact that for some reason, you keep on insisting that an opinion, alters the reality of true or false is simply mind boggling.

They now do it as a strategy, because the Republican party is in retreat from the "reality" you are describing. They had to adopt their own "reality" of alternative facts and opinions they deem to be the truth. Never in modern history has this party been backed into a corner as it has at this point in history. And they did it to themselves. So how do they try and stay relevant? With opinions as fact and alternative facts of course.

 

[BWK]

Was this an opinion or an incorrect statement? And not only does he lie more then the average person but he probably lies more then 100 average people.Analysis | A year of unprecedented deception: Trump averaged 15 false claims a day in 2018 7600 untruths and counting. And before you yell fake news. If you want I'll give you further tapes of him speaking, or look on his twitter account and see how many outright lies I can find.

Opinion and they are not lies. If I say I am 6’4 but I am 6’3 it’s technically a lie but actually a fib. You are annoying. Again. Opinions cannot be wrong. What is your dog in this fight? Or do you just enjoy trolling me? Go pick a fight with someone else. Thank you. Stalker.

I don't see you giving up this by now, obviously ridiculous conversation. "Only technically lying", "opinions can't be wrong." And my bone is that you go so far in defense of your opinion that you have ventured in the realm of denying the meaning of words. Something that I find offensive because it's simply unreasonable.

Nope. Opinions are not based on fact and hence cannot be wrong. If you cannot see that you are not worth conversing with.

For the last time. The nature of reality does not change by calling it an opinion. Every person has opinions. Some of those opinions are wrong. Those opinions were wrong before they could be proven wrong, those opinions are wrong after they are proven unsustainable. The earth didn't change from flat to round when Aristotle first observed the truth of it. It didn't change from round to flat when it was rejected in the middle ages. The opinion of it being flat or round was completely disattached from the truth of it. It was always round. The fact that for some reason, you keep on insisting that an opinion, alters the reality of true or false is simply mind boggling.

They now do it as a strategy, because the Republican party is in retreat from the "reality" you are describing. They had to adopt their own reality of 'alternative facts and opinions they deem to be the truth. Never in modern history has this party been backed into a corner as it has at this point in history. And they did it to themselves. So how do they try and stay relevant? With opinions as fact and alternative facts of course.

 

[georgephillip]

Nope. Opinions are not based on fact and hence cannot be wrong. If you cannot see that you are not worth conversing with.

https://www.bmcc.cuny.edu/lrc/studyskills/factsandopinions.pdf

"A fact is a statement that can be proven true or false.

"An opinion is an expression of a person’s feelings that cannot be proven.

"Opinions can be based on facts or emotions and sometimes they are meant to deliberately mislead others.

"Therefore, it is important to be aware of the author’s purpose and choice of language.

"Sometimes, the author lets the facts speak for themselves."

You just tossed a bucket of cold water on the debate. Lol!

I'm beginning to think we are talking past each other, and the subject is not as black and white as I thought it was:

https://www.bmcc.cuny.edu/lrc/studyskills/factsandopinions.pdf

"The following is an example of a fact: •

"With fewer cars on the road, there would be less air pollution and traffic noise; therefore, the use of mass transportation should be encouraged. Sometimes the author may use descriptive language to appeal to your emotions and sway your thinking.

"The following is an example of an opinion: •

"Do you like looking at a smoggy view from a congested highway? How do you feel about fighting road hugs and bumper to bumper traffic everyday? Mass transportation is the solution to all these problems.

"Emotional language is neither right nor wrong, but the way in which it is used can be positive or negative; it is up to you to make reasonable judgement about the material you are reading and to draw your own conclusion."

 

[forkup]

In the mean time, not sure who hijacked the thread so many pages back, but no one on the Right has ever mounted a challenge against the accuracy of the Steele Dossier. The parts that have been investigated that is. So far, no one has been able to prove it is a lie, or an opinion. The information, according to investigators, matches its reporting against the evidence. Which is all that matters.

Probably my fault. Sorry. Azog was having trouble coming up with counterarguments to defend Trump or sustain his objection to the Steele dossier. So he came out with the statement that because he was stating opinions he couldn't be challenged. I kind of went of on that statement.

 

[BWK]

Nope. Opinions are not based on fact and hence cannot be wrong. If you cannot see that you are not worth conversing with.

https://www.bmcc.cuny.edu/lrc/studyskills/factsandopinions.pdf

"A fact is a statement that can be proven true or false.

"An opinion is an expression of a person’s feelings that cannot be proven.

"Opinions can be based on facts or emotions and sometimes they are meant to deliberately mislead others.

"Therefore, it is important to be aware of the author’s purpose and choice of language.

"Sometimes, the author lets the facts speak for themselves."

You just tossed a bucket of cold water on the debate. Lol!

I'm beginning to think we are talking past each other, and the subject is not as black and white as I thought it was:

https://www.bmcc.cuny.edu/lrc/studyskills/factsandopinions.pdf

"The following is an example of a fact: •

"With fewer cars on the road, there would be less air pollution and traffic noise; therefore, the use of mass transportation should be encouraged. Sometimes the author may use descriptive language to appeal to your emotions and sway your thinking.

"The following is an example of an opinion: •

"Do you like looking at a smoggy view from a congested highway? How do you feel about fighting road hugs and bumper to bumper traffic everyday? Mass transportation is the solution to all these problems.

"Emotional language is neither right nor wrong, but the way in which it is used can be positive or negative; it is up to you to make reasonable judgement about the material you are reading and to draw your own conclusion."

You are a hard guy to argue against. And that's a good thing.

 

[forkup]

Nope. Opinions are not based on fact and hence cannot be wrong. If you cannot see that you are not worth conversing with.

https://www.bmcc.cuny.edu/lrc/studyskills/factsandopinions.pdf

"A fact is a statement that can be proven true or false.

"An opinion is an expression of a person’s feelings that cannot be proven.

"Opinions can be based on facts or emotions and sometimes they are meant to deliberately mislead others.

"Therefore, it is important to be aware of the author’s purpose and choice of language.

"Sometimes, the author lets the facts speak for themselves."

You just tossed a bucket of cold water on the debate. Lol!

I'm beginning to think we are talking past each other, and the subject is not as black and white as I thought it was:

https://www.bmcc.cuny.edu/lrc/studyskills/factsandopinions.pdf

"The following is an example of a fact: •

"With fewer cars on the road, there would be less air pollution and traffic noise; therefore, the use of mass transportation should be encouraged. Sometimes the author may use descriptive language to appeal to your emotions and sway your thinking.

"The following is an example of an opinion: •

"Do you like looking at a smoggy view from a congested highway? How do you feel about fighting road hugs and bumper to bumper traffic everyday? Mass transportation is the solution to all these problems.

"Emotional language is neither right nor wrong, but the way in which it is used can be positive or negative; it is up to you to make reasonable judgement about the material you are reading and to draw your own conclusion."

No, you had it right. An opinion by definition doesn't need facts to sustain it. On the other hand, stating that opinions by virtue of it being an opinion can't be held to objective truth is false.

 

[forkup]

Was this an opinion or an incorrect statement? And not only does he lie more then the average person but he probably lies more then 100 average people.Analysis | A year of unprecedented deception: Trump averaged 15 false claims a day in 2018 7600 untruths and counting. And before you yell fake news. If you want I'll give you further tapes of him speaking, or look on his twitter account and see how many outright lies I can find.

Opinion and they are not lies. If I say I am 6’4 but I am 6’3 it’s technically a lie but actually a fib. You are annoying. Again. Opinions cannot be wrong. What is your dog in this fight? Or do you just enjoy trolling me? Go pick a fight with someone else. Thank you. Stalker.

I don't see you giving up this by now, obviously ridiculous conversation. "Only technically lying", "opinions can't be wrong." And my bone is that you go so far in defense of your opinion that you have ventured in the realm of denying the meaning of words. Something that I find offensive because it's simply unreasonable.

Nope. Opinions are not based on fact and hence cannot be wrong. If you cannot see that you are not worth conversing with.

For the last time. The nature of reality does not change by calling it an opinion. Every person has opinions. Some of those opinions are wrong. Those opinions were wrong before they could be proven wrong, those opinions are wrong after they are proven unsustainable. The earth didn't change from flat to round when Aristotle first observed the truth of it. It didn't change from round to flat when it was rejected in the middle ages. The opinion of it being flat or round was completely disattached from the truth of it. It was always round. The fact that for some reason, you keep on insisting that an opinion, alters the reality of true or false is simply mind boggling.

They now do it as a strategy, because the Republican party is in retreat from the "reality" you are describing. They had to adopt their own "reality" of alternative facts and opinions they deem to be the truth. Never in modern history has this party been backed into a corner as it has at this point in history. And they did it to themselves. So how do they try and stay relevant? With opinions as fact and alternative facts of course.

I've never had a problem with ideological differences. I always figured, that it would be the height of arrogance to assume that just because I held a certain opinion other peoples opinion had to be wrong. Every person does it to a certain extent, but it's almost a statistical impossibility to never be wrong. This though is something different that kind of hits me on a basic level. I try to be a rational human being. But now there's a general consensus among certain groups. That rational thinking, and irrational thinking are equal. They are not. One is based on facts, study, science or whatever rational means a person uses to establish truth. The other is based on feelings.
So now here I am arguing about whether or not opinions change if something is true or not, and it offends me.

 

[boedicca]

In the mean time, not sure who hijacked the thread so many pages back, but no one on the Right has ever mounted a challenge against the accuracy of the Steele Dossier. The parts that have been investigated that is. So far, no one has been able to prove it is a lie, or an opinion. The information, according to investigators, matches its reporting against the evidence. Which is all that matters.

The responsibility lies with the writers of the Steele Dossier to prove it is true.

If I write a dossier about you ******* goats, would you prefer to be in the position of having to prove you are not a goat ******?