The Steele Dossier: How Does it Hold Up?

[AzogtheDefiler]

Eventually. May take 10+ yrs

Eventually pigs might sprout wings, doesn't mean it's the plan.

Short term and long term plans always exist. Neither you nor I know the real circumstances just what the fake news on both sides spews.

There have been zero denials from the WH when Trump gave the Russians sensitive information. If it were fake, they would have been all over it. They never challenged that reporting. Next!

Bullshit. What sensitive info?

Bombshell report reveals new details about Trump's Oval Office meeting with Russians after he fired Comey Next!

Article says they planned how to defeat ISIS. So in your mind Roosevelt was in collusion with the Soviet Union during WWII when they were discussing how to beat the Nazis?

 

[BWK]

Eventually pigs might sprout wings, doesn't mean it's the plan.

Short term and long term plans always exist. Neither you nor I know the real circumstances just what the fake news on both sides spews.

There have been zero denials from the WH when Trump gave the Russians sensitive information. If it were fake, they would have been all over it. They never challenged that reporting. Next!

Bullshit. What sensitive info?

Bombshell report reveals new details about Trump's Oval Office meeting with Russians after he fired Comey Next!

Article says they planned how to defeat ISIS. So in your mind Roosevelt was in collusion with the Soviet Union during WWII when they were discussing how to beat the Nazis?

Haven't a clue what you are talking about? Wikipedia explains to us that Trump gave out sensitive info about Israel to Russia.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Short term and long term plans always exist. Neither you nor I know the real circumstances just what the fake news on both sides spews.

There have been zero denials from the WH when Trump gave the Russians sensitive information. If it were fake, they would have been all over it. They never challenged that reporting. Next!

Bullshit. What sensitive info?

Bombshell report reveals new details about Trump's Oval Office meeting with Russians after he fired Comey Next!

Article says they planned how to defeat ISIS. So in your mind Roosevelt was in collusion with the Soviet Union during WWII when they were discussing how to beat the Nazis?

Haven't a clue what you are talking about? Wikipedia explains to us that Trump gave out sensitive info about Israel to Russia.

Wiki also states there is life on Mars. If it were this cut and dry then Mueller would have had this done a long time ago. You’re rude and illogical. A typical keyboard warrior.

 

[BWK]

There have been zero denials from the WH when Trump gave the Russians sensitive information. If it were fake, they would have been all over it. They never challenged that reporting. Next!

Bullshit. What sensitive info?

Bombshell report reveals new details about Trump's Oval Office meeting with Russians after he fired Comey Next!

Article says they planned how to defeat ISIS. So in your mind Roosevelt was in collusion with the Soviet Union during WWII when they were discussing how to beat the Nazis?

Haven't a clue what you are talking about? Wikipedia explains to us that Trump gave out sensitive info about Israel to Russia.

Wiki also states there is life on Mars. If it were this cut and dry then Mueller would have had this done a long time ago. You’re rude and illogical. A typical keyboard warrior.

Okay, thanks! Wiki never said that, proving that your previous argument of mine being bs is actually your own bs tossed back in your lap. You have no counter rebuttal, and that is a fact. Next!

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Bullshit. What sensitive info?

Bombshell report reveals new details about Trump's Oval Office meeting with Russians after he fired Comey Next!

Article says they planned how to defeat ISIS. So in your mind Roosevelt was in collusion with the Soviet Union during WWII when they were discussing how to beat the Nazis?

Haven't a clue what you are talking about? Wikipedia explains to us that Trump gave out sensitive info about Israel to Russia.

Wiki also states there is life on Mars. If it were this cut and dry then Mueller would have had this done a long time ago. You’re rude and illogical. A typical keyboard warrior.

Okay, thanks! Wiki never said that, proving that your previous argument of mine being bs is actually your own bs tossed back in your lap. You have no counter rebuttal, and that is a fact. Next!

LMAO. You think Wiki is legit? I could put an article on Wiki as much as anyone. Are you on drugs?

 

[BWK]

Bombshell report reveals new details about Trump's Oval Office meeting with Russians after he fired Comey Next!

Article says they planned how to defeat ISIS. So in your mind Roosevelt was in collusion with the Soviet Union during WWII when they were discussing how to beat the Nazis?

Haven't a clue what you are talking about? Wikipedia explains to us that Trump gave out sensitive info about Israel to Russia.

Wiki also states there is life on Mars. If it were this cut and dry then Mueller would have had this done a long time ago. You’re rude and illogical. A typical keyboard warrior.

Okay, thanks! Wiki never said that, proving that your previous argument of mine being bs is actually your own bs tossed back in your lap. You have no counter rebuttal, and that is a fact. Next!

LMAO. You think Wiki is legit? I could put an article on Wiki as much as anyone. Are you on drugs?

Except you didn't put a Wiki link there to counter my argument.
Thanks! I accept your surrender to this argument, based on the fact you have no counter argument. You are dismissed. That's your cue to get out while you can, because any further discussion about this argument is going to leave you looking like a fool. And not just someone who lost a debate.

 

[forkup]

-Is it, or is it not in Russia's perceived best interest that America leaves Syria? Is it or is it not, to the detriment of American interest that Russia gets a naval base in the region that holds the worlds biggest oil reserve? Is that not pretty cut and dry? Especially since the conflict in Syria has had only 3 Americans killed?
-You say he's not a liar???? Is this an argument in good faith? Cause from where I'm sitting, not only does Trump lie. But he lies so consistently and often so outrageously that I have trouble believing anyone can deny it in good faith.

You can hear Trump promise an imaginary 10 percent pay raise from second 9 to 14. To I assume your former brothers in arms. Note I specified the time, this way you don't have to listen to the media. This is just one. I could give you a thousand more.
- As to him being no spy.( I find it interesting you prefer that term to agent.) How do you know? I have shown you instances were Trump went for Russian interest over the countries not to mention against his own self interests as a Potus who's ties to Russia are closely scrutinized, in such a blatant way that you have to agree to the assessment that he might be incompetent. This is not the only possible explanation being compromised by Russian being the only obvious other one.

Only 3? Tell that to their families. How much oil do we get from Syria?

Oh and if that's the only thing your replying to in that post, I have to say that you don't seem to have a substantive counter argument.
I do also want to say something else though. At the risk of sounding condescending. Not my intention by the way. I appreciate that you at least try to have an actual conversation, and seem to be willing to at least consider what I'm telling. It is rare on this board and I try to thank all those willing to do so.

Trump IMO is trying to use the Russians to fight the extremist Islamists while pulling the US back. Whether this works is tbd.

If that's your opinion, then my opinion is that your opinion is simplistic. It comes back to my original point. You stated that it's ridiculous to state that Trump is compromised. Yet a lot of his foreign policy decisions only make sense if those decisions are written in the Kremlin. Withdrawing from Syria makes no sense for the US. The commitment is small. The US has a good ally there that does most of the fighting, ans it denies the Russians the influence they seek in the region. Going on camera and saying you believe Putin over your own intelligence community makes no sense. It demoralizes them, and gives a visual reminder to those watching that the US is unwilling to stand up to them. Giving the Russians code word level intel developed by Israel makes no sense. It shows the allies that giving intelligence to the US might end up in the hands of Russia.
Think of it like this. People on the right still chant "lock her up" because the then Secretary of State, Hilary Clinton had classified information on her private computer. It wasn't that she shouldn't have it. It wasn't that it was stolen. No the beef was that that information was deemed insecure and therefor shouldn't have been there. The highest level of classification was top secret. Trump flat out GAVE code word level intelligence to the Russians. Yet not a peep.
What would you guys have done if it would have been president Clinton? I think the first day the GOP would have yelled traitor and the second day would have been impeachment proceedings. The same can be said for Helsinki. Am I wrong?

It wasn’t that she had it. It was because she bleached it. Do you know how laborious that is? You don’t just hit delete. We were being civil but you turned into a Leftist extremist rude prick. All set with you and your fake intelligence. You can go and jump in a frozen lake/

I love this argument. So you are claiming that the GOP doesn't think that putting classified information on a private server is a problem as long as you don't try to hide it? Seems not a little bit weird of an argument. And in my view I've been civil. I've answered every single one of your arguments. Even when I very much suspect yours are not made in good faith. I've even went as far as thanking you for at least appearing to try to have a conversation. Not once did I obfuscate, deflect, or refuse to answer outright. You've done all these things. It's not my fault that your counter arguments fall short.

 

[BWK]

Only 3? Tell that to their families. How much oil do we get from Syria?

Oh and if that's the only thing your replying to in that post, I have to say that you don't seem to have a substantive counter argument.
I do also want to say something else though. At the risk of sounding condescending. Not my intention by the way. I appreciate that you at least try to have an actual conversation, and seem to be willing to at least consider what I'm telling. It is rare on this board and I try to thank all those willing to do so.

Trump IMO is trying to use the Russians to fight the extremist Islamists while pulling the US back. Whether this works is tbd.

If that's your opinion, then my opinion is that your opinion is simplistic. It comes back to my original point. You stated that it's ridiculous to state that Trump is compromised. Yet a lot of his foreign policy decisions only make sense if those decisions are written in the Kremlin. Withdrawing from Syria makes no sense for the US. The commitment is small. The US has a good ally there that does most of the fighting, ans it denies the Russians the influence they seek in the region. Going on camera and saying you believe Putin over your own intelligence community makes no sense. It demoralizes them, and gives a visual reminder to those watching that the US is unwilling to stand up to them. Giving the Russians code word level intel developed by Israel makes no sense. It shows the allies that giving intelligence to the US might end up in the hands of Russia.
Think of it like this. People on the right still chant "lock her up" because the then Secretary of State, Hilary Clinton had classified information on her private computer. It wasn't that she shouldn't have it. It wasn't that it was stolen. No the beef was that that information was deemed insecure and therefor shouldn't have been there. The highest level of classification was top secret. Trump flat out GAVE code word level intelligence to the Russians. Yet not a peep.
What would you guys have done if it would have been president Clinton? I think the first day the GOP would have yelled traitor and the second day would have been impeachment proceedings. The same can be said for Helsinki. Am I wrong?

It wasn’t that she had it. It was because she bleached it. Do you know how laborious that is? You don’t just hit delete. We were being civil but you turned into a Leftist extremist rude prick. All set with you and your fake intelligence. You can go and jump in a frozen lake/

I love this argument. So you are claiming that the GOP doesn't think that putting classified information on a private server is a problem as long as you don't try to hide it? Seems not a little bit weird of an argument. And in my view I've been civil. I've answered every single one of your arguments. Even when I very much suspect yours are not made in good faith. I've even went as far as thanking you for at least appearing to try to have a conversation. Not once did I obfuscate, deflect, attempt to change the subject, or refuse to answer outright. You've done all these things. It's not my fault that your counter arguments fall short.

Which is why they obfuscate, deflect, and change the subject. They don't have counter arguments. They are boxed in with nothing to fight with and they know it. You know you are already winning the argument when they have to rely on these tactics. Been doing this for years with the Right, and they never seem to pull that rabbit out of he hat, because everything they argue for is based upon lies, misinformation, their own emotions, and ignorance, which produces anger. Why do they resort to these tactics? Simple, "fear"! They think this country belongs to them, and they fear they are losing that ownership to all the "others" in this country. This last presidential election by the Right was primarily a referendum about race. The problem is, this country was founded by immigrants and we have a Constitution that has evolved to be inclusive of all people. "We the people" Remember?

Anyway, your strategy is spot on, and you will continue winning your own personal debates, because you use the truth and the facts as your debate material. And when they argue against that, they will lose every time, and you will always win.

 

[forkup]

Oh and if that's the only thing your replying to in that post, I have to say that you don't seem to have a substantive counter argument.
I do also want to say something else though. At the risk of sounding condescending. Not my intention by the way. I appreciate that you at least try to have an actual conversation, and seem to be willing to at least consider what I'm telling. It is rare on this board and I try to thank all those willing to do so.

Trump IMO is trying to use the Russians to fight the extremist Islamists while pulling the US back. Whether this works is tbd.

If that's your opinion, then my opinion is that your opinion is simplistic. It comes back to my original point. You stated that it's ridiculous to state that Trump is compromised. Yet a lot of his foreign policy decisions only make sense if those decisions are written in the Kremlin. Withdrawing from Syria makes no sense for the US. The commitment is small. The US has a good ally there that does most of the fighting, ans it denies the Russians the influence they seek in the region. Going on camera and saying you believe Putin over your own intelligence community makes no sense. It demoralizes them, and gives a visual reminder to those watching that the US is unwilling to stand up to them. Giving the Russians code word level intel developed by Israel makes no sense. It shows the allies that giving intelligence to the US might end up in the hands of Russia.
Think of it like this. People on the right still chant "lock her up" because the then Secretary of State, Hilary Clinton had classified information on her private computer. It wasn't that she shouldn't have it. It wasn't that it was stolen. No the beef was that that information was deemed insecure and therefor shouldn't have been there. The highest level of classification was top secret. Trump flat out GAVE code word level intelligence to the Russians. Yet not a peep.
What would you guys have done if it would have been president Clinton? I think the first day the GOP would have yelled traitor and the second day would have been impeachment proceedings. The same can be said for Helsinki. Am I wrong?

It wasn’t that she had it. It was because she bleached it. Do you know how laborious that is? You don’t just hit delete. We were being civil but you turned into a Leftist extremist rude prick. All set with you and your fake intelligence. You can go and jump in a frozen lake/

I love this argument. So you are claiming that the GOP doesn't think that putting classified information on a private server is a problem as long as you don't try to hide it? Seems not a little bit weird of an argument. And in my view I've been civil. I've answered every single one of your arguments. Even when I very much suspect yours are not made in good faith. I've even went as far as thanking you for at least appearing to try to have a conversation. Not once did I obfuscate, deflect, attempt to change the subject, or refuse to answer outright. You've done all these things. It's not my fault that your counter arguments fall short.

Which is why they obfuscate, deflect, and change the subject. They don't have counter arguments. They are boxed in with nothing to fight with and they know it. You know you are already winning the argument when they have to rely on these tactics. Been doing this for years with the Right, and they never seem to pull that rabbit out of he hat, because everything they argue for is based upon lies, misinformation, their own emotions, and ignorance, which produces anger. Why do they resort to these tactics? Simple, "fear"! They think this country belongs to them, and they fear they are losing that ownership to all the "others" in this country. This last presidential election by the Right was primarily a referendum about race. The problem is, this country was founded by immigrants and we have a Constitution that has evolved to be inclusive of all people. "We the people" Remember?

Anyway, your strategy is spot on, and you will continue winning your own personal debates, because you use the truth and the facts as your debate material. And when they argue against that, they will lose every time, and you will always win.

Winning an argument is nice for the ego but not really what I'm after to be honest. I'm trying to understand were someone like Azog comes from. He doesn't seem to me like he is unintelligent or incapable of logical thinking. So I want to know why he thinks the way he does. I'm not naive, so I understand it's a fools errand most likely, our perception of the world seems to far apart. But maybe the process of talking might teach me something useful about myself or the world. Cause undoubtedly Azog thinks he is right and I'm wrong. There's even a chance he's right I suppose. That's what I want to find out. Is he capable of using logic to make his point?

 

[forkup]

Oh and if that's the only thing your replying to in that post, I have to say that you don't seem to have a substantive counter argument.
I do also want to say something else though. At the risk of sounding condescending. Not my intention by the way. I appreciate that you at least try to have an actual conversation, and seem to be willing to at least consider what I'm telling. It is rare on this board and I try to thank all those willing to do so.

Trump IMO is trying to use the Russians to fight the extremist Islamists while pulling the US back. Whether this works is tbd.

If that's your opinion, then my opinion is that your opinion is simplistic. It comes back to my original point. You stated that it's ridiculous to state that Trump is compromised. Yet a lot of his foreign policy decisions only make sense if those decisions are written in the Kremlin. Withdrawing from Syria makes no sense for the US. The commitment is small. The US has a good ally there that does most of the fighting, ans it denies the Russians the influence they seek in the region. Going on camera and saying you believe Putin over your own intelligence community makes no sense. It demoralizes them, and gives a visual reminder to those watching that the US is unwilling to stand up to them. Giving the Russians code word level intel developed by Israel makes no sense. It shows the allies that giving intelligence to the US might end up in the hands of Russia.
Think of it like this. People on the right still chant "lock her up" because the then Secretary of State, Hilary Clinton had classified information on her private computer. It wasn't that she shouldn't have it. It wasn't that it was stolen. No the beef was that that information was deemed insecure and therefor shouldn't have been there. The highest level of classification was top secret. Trump flat out GAVE code word level intelligence to the Russians. Yet not a peep.
What would you guys have done if it would have been president Clinton? I think the first day the GOP would have yelled traitor and the second day would have been impeachment proceedings. The same can be said for Helsinki. Am I wrong?

It wasn’t that she had it. It was because she bleached it. Do you know how laborious that is? You don’t just hit delete. We were being civil but you turned into a Leftist extremist rude prick. All set with you and your fake intelligence. You can go and jump in a frozen lake/

I love this argument. So you are claiming that the GOP doesn't think that putting classified information on a private server is a problem as long as you don't try to hide it? Seems not a little bit weird of an argument. And in my view I've been civil. I've answered every single one of your arguments. Even when I very much suspect yours are not made in good faith. I've even went as far as thanking you for at least appearing to try to have a conversation. Not once did I obfuscate, deflect, attempt to change the subject, or refuse to answer outright. You've done all these things. It's not my fault that your counter arguments fall short.

Which is why they obfuscate, deflect, and change the subject. They don't have counter arguments. They are boxed in with nothing to fight with and they know it. You know you are already winning the argument when they have to rely on these tactics. Been doing this for years with the Right, and they never seem to pull that rabbit out of he hat, because everything they argue for is based upon lies, misinformation, their own emotions, and ignorance, which produces anger. Why do they resort to these tactics? Simple, "fear"! They think this country belongs to them, and they fear they are losing that ownership to all the "others" in this country. This last presidential election by the Right was primarily a referendum about race. The problem is, this country was founded by immigrants and we have a Constitution that has evolved to be inclusive of all people. "We the people" Remember?

Anyway, your strategy is spot on, and you will continue winning your own personal debates, because you use the truth and the facts as your debate material. And when they argue against that, they will lose every time, and you will always win.

I don't think it's fear actually, to use these tactics. If I'd have to give a motivation it's ego. People on this board are not normal. We spend time on a forum talking politics. Most of us do this because an overwhelming sense of righteousness I think. For people who have that sense of righteousness nothing is more painful then having to admit your wrong. I've done it a few times myself here and it's incredibly painful. I don't think it's all that surprising that people choose to resort to certain tactics to avoid that pain.

 

[BWK]

Trump IMO is trying to use the Russians to fight the extremist Islamists while pulling the US back. Whether this works is tbd.

If that's your opinion, then my opinion is that your opinion is simplistic. It comes back to my original point. You stated that it's ridiculous to state that Trump is compromised. Yet a lot of his foreign policy decisions only make sense if those decisions are written in the Kremlin. Withdrawing from Syria makes no sense for the US. The commitment is small. The US has a good ally there that does most of the fighting, ans it denies the Russians the influence they seek in the region. Going on camera and saying you believe Putin over your own intelligence community makes no sense. It demoralizes them, and gives a visual reminder to those watching that the US is unwilling to stand up to them. Giving the Russians code word level intel developed by Israel makes no sense. It shows the allies that giving intelligence to the US might end up in the hands of Russia.
Think of it like this. People on the right still chant "lock her up" because the then Secretary of State, Hilary Clinton had classified information on her private computer. It wasn't that she shouldn't have it. It wasn't that it was stolen. No the beef was that that information was deemed insecure and therefor shouldn't have been there. The highest level of classification was top secret. Trump flat out GAVE code word level intelligence to the Russians. Yet not a peep.
What would you guys have done if it would have been president Clinton? I think the first day the GOP would have yelled traitor and the second day would have been impeachment proceedings. The same can be said for Helsinki. Am I wrong?

It wasn’t that she had it. It was because she bleached it. Do you know how laborious that is? You don’t just hit delete. We were being civil but you turned into a Leftist extremist rude prick. All set with you and your fake intelligence. You can go and jump in a frozen lake/

I love this argument. So you are claiming that the GOP doesn't think that putting classified information on a private server is a problem as long as you don't try to hide it? Seems not a little bit weird of an argument. And in my view I've been civil. I've answered every single one of your arguments. Even when I very much suspect yours are not made in good faith. I've even went as far as thanking you for at least appearing to try to have a conversation. Not once did I obfuscate, deflect, attempt to change the subject, or refuse to answer outright. You've done all these things. It's not my fault that your counter arguments fall short.

Which is why they obfuscate, deflect, and change the subject. They don't have counter arguments. They are boxed in with nothing to fight with and they know it. You know you are already winning the argument when they have to rely on these tactics. Been doing this for years with the Right, and they never seem to pull that rabbit out of he hat, because everything they argue for is based upon lies, misinformation, their own emotions, and ignorance, which produces anger. Why do they resort to these tactics? Simple, "fear"! They think this country belongs to them, and they fear they are losing that ownership to all the "others" in this country. This last presidential election by the Right was primarily a referendum about race. The problem is, this country was founded by immigrants and we have a Constitution that has evolved to be inclusive of all people. "We the people" Remember?

Anyway, your strategy is spot on, and you will continue winning your own personal debates, because you use the truth and the facts as your debate material. And when they argue against that, they will lose every time, and you will always win.

Winning an argument is nice for the ego but not really what I'm after to be honest. I'm trying to understand were someone like Azog comes from. He doesn't seem to me like he is unintelligent or incapable of logical thinking. So I want to know why he thinks the way he does. I'm not naive, so I understand it's a fools errand most likely, our perception of the world seems to far apart. But maybe the process of talking might teach me something useful about myself or the world. Cause undoubtedly Azog thinks he is right and I'm wrong. There's even a chance he's right I suppose. That's what I want to find out. Is he capable of using logic to make his point?

If you doubt yourself, don't. You have the truth and the facts in your corner.There is nothing to doubt. That is your guiding star. As long as you use that, your brain, your heart, and your conscience are always headed in the right direction. I've seen your posts. You are not wrong, because first and for most, you use honesty and facts as your go to strategy. That's a win every time. Believe me. They won't tell you that, but they know.

And by the way,you already understand your opponent when they obfuscate, lie, or change the subject. You may not know you do, but you do. The very reason I gave for the "why" is their fundamental problem. The problem is not yours to burden.

Folks like Azog are capable of using logic, but they choose a different path for the very reason I gave in my previous post.

 

[BWK]

Trump IMO is trying to use the Russians to fight the extremist Islamists while pulling the US back. Whether this works is tbd.

If that's your opinion, then my opinion is that your opinion is simplistic. It comes back to my original point. You stated that it's ridiculous to state that Trump is compromised. Yet a lot of his foreign policy decisions only make sense if those decisions are written in the Kremlin. Withdrawing from Syria makes no sense for the US. The commitment is small. The US has a good ally there that does most of the fighting, ans it denies the Russians the influence they seek in the region. Going on camera and saying you believe Putin over your own intelligence community makes no sense. It demoralizes them, and gives a visual reminder to those watching that the US is unwilling to stand up to them. Giving the Russians code word level intel developed by Israel makes no sense. It shows the allies that giving intelligence to the US might end up in the hands of Russia.
Think of it like this. People on the right still chant "lock her up" because the then Secretary of State, Hilary Clinton had classified information on her private computer. It wasn't that she shouldn't have it. It wasn't that it was stolen. No the beef was that that information was deemed insecure and therefor shouldn't have been there. The highest level of classification was top secret. Trump flat out GAVE code word level intelligence to the Russians. Yet not a peep.
What would you guys have done if it would have been president Clinton? I think the first day the GOP would have yelled traitor and the second day would have been impeachment proceedings. The same can be said for Helsinki. Am I wrong?

It wasn’t that she had it. It was because she bleached it. Do you know how laborious that is? You don’t just hit delete. We were being civil but you turned into a Leftist extremist rude prick. All set with you and your fake intelligence. You can go and jump in a frozen lake/

I love this argument. So you are claiming that the GOP doesn't think that putting classified information on a private server is a problem as long as you don't try to hide it? Seems not a little bit weird of an argument. And in my view I've been civil. I've answered every single one of your arguments. Even when I very much suspect yours are not made in good faith. I've even went as far as thanking you for at least appearing to try to have a conversation. Not once did I obfuscate, deflect, attempt to change the subject, or refuse to answer outright. You've done all these things. It's not my fault that your counter arguments fall short.

Which is why they obfuscate, deflect, and change the subject. They don't have counter arguments. They are boxed in with nothing to fight with and they know it. You know you are already winning the argument when they have to rely on these tactics. Been doing this for years with the Right, and they never seem to pull that rabbit out of he hat, because everything they argue for is based upon lies, misinformation, their own emotions, and ignorance, which produces anger. Why do they resort to these tactics? Simple, "fear"! They think this country belongs to them, and they fear they are losing that ownership to all the "others" in this country. This last presidential election by the Right was primarily a referendum about race. The problem is, this country was founded by immigrants and we have a Constitution that has evolved to be inclusive of all people. "We the people" Remember?

Anyway, your strategy is spot on, and you will continue winning your own personal debates, because you use the truth and the facts as your debate material. And when they argue against that, they will lose every time, and you will always win.

I don't think it's fear actually, to use these tactics. If I'd have to give a motivation it's ego. People on this board are not normal. We spend time on a forum talking politics. Most of us do this because an overwhelming sense of righteousness I think. For people who have that sense of righteousness nothing is more painful then having to admit your wrong. I've done it a few times myself here and it's incredibly painful. I don't think it's all that surprising that people choose to resort to certain tactics to avoid that pain.

Just admit you are wrong when you are wrong. I've done it myself. It's not painful, because the error was an honest mistake. Hold your head high, tell the truth based on the facts, and the wind will always be to your back.It's that simple. The rest will take care of itself.

 

[forkup]

If that's your opinion, then my opinion is that your opinion is simplistic. It comes back to my original point. You stated that it's ridiculous to state that Trump is compromised. Yet a lot of his foreign policy decisions only make sense if those decisions are written in the Kremlin. Withdrawing from Syria makes no sense for the US. The commitment is small. The US has a good ally there that does most of the fighting, ans it denies the Russians the influence they seek in the region. Going on camera and saying you believe Putin over your own intelligence community makes no sense. It demoralizes them, and gives a visual reminder to those watching that the US is unwilling to stand up to them. Giving the Russians code word level intel developed by Israel makes no sense. It shows the allies that giving intelligence to the US might end up in the hands of Russia.
Think of it like this. People on the right still chant "lock her up" because the then Secretary of State, Hilary Clinton had classified information on her private computer. It wasn't that she shouldn't have it. It wasn't that it was stolen. No the beef was that that information was deemed insecure and therefor shouldn't have been there. The highest level of classification was top secret. Trump flat out GAVE code word level intelligence to the Russians. Yet not a peep.
What would you guys have done if it would have been president Clinton? I think the first day the GOP would have yelled traitor and the second day would have been impeachment proceedings. The same can be said for Helsinki. Am I wrong?

It wasn’t that she had it. It was because she bleached it. Do you know how laborious that is? You don’t just hit delete. We were being civil but you turned into a Leftist extremist rude prick. All set with you and your fake intelligence. You can go and jump in a frozen lake/

I love this argument. So you are claiming that the GOP doesn't think that putting classified information on a private server is a problem as long as you don't try to hide it? Seems not a little bit weird of an argument. And in my view I've been civil. I've answered every single one of your arguments. Even when I very much suspect yours are not made in good faith. I've even went as far as thanking you for at least appearing to try to have a conversation. Not once did I obfuscate, deflect, attempt to change the subject, or refuse to answer outright. You've done all these things. It's not my fault that your counter arguments fall short.

Which is why they obfuscate, deflect, and change the subject. They don't have counter arguments. They are boxed in with nothing to fight with and they know it. You know you are already winning the argument when they have to rely on these tactics. Been doing this for years with the Right, and they never seem to pull that rabbit out of he hat, because everything they argue for is based upon lies, misinformation, their own emotions, and ignorance, which produces anger. Why do they resort to these tactics? Simple, "fear"! They think this country belongs to them, and they fear they are losing that ownership to all the "others" in this country. This last presidential election by the Right was primarily a referendum about race. The problem is, this country was founded by immigrants and we have a Constitution that has evolved to be inclusive of all people. "We the people" Remember?

Anyway, your strategy is spot on, and you will continue winning your own personal debates, because you use the truth and the facts as your debate material. And when they argue against that, they will lose every time, and you will always win.

I don't think it's fear actually, to use these tactics. If I'd have to give a motivation it's ego. People on this board are not normal. We spend time on a forum talking politics. Most of us do this because an overwhelming sense of righteousness I think. For people who have that sense of righteousness nothing is more painful then having to admit your wrong. I've done it a few times myself here and it's incredibly painful. I don't think it's all that surprising that people choose to resort to certain tactics to avoid that pain.

Just admit you are wrong when you are wrong. I've done it myself. It's not painful, because the error was an honest mistake. Hold your head high, tell the truth based on the facts, and the wind will always be to your back.It's that simple. The rest will take care of itself.

Like I said, I have an ego, to me it is painful. I just try to remind myself that I value honesty above my inflated sense of self worth. I can't say I'm universally successful. I can say without any false modesty that being able to acknowledge that personal flaw, makes me a better, if not more likable person.

 

[BWK]

It wasn’t that she had it. It was because she bleached it. Do you know how laborious that is? You don’t just hit delete. We were being civil but you turned into a Leftist extremist rude prick. All set with you and your fake intelligence. You can go and jump in a frozen lake/

I love this argument. So you are claiming that the GOP doesn't think that putting classified information on a private server is a problem as long as you don't try to hide it? Seems not a little bit weird of an argument. And in my view I've been civil. I've answered every single one of your arguments. Even when I very much suspect yours are not made in good faith. I've even went as far as thanking you for at least appearing to try to have a conversation. Not once did I obfuscate, deflect, attempt to change the subject, or refuse to answer outright. You've done all these things. It's not my fault that your counter arguments fall short.

Which is why they obfuscate, deflect, and change the subject. They don't have counter arguments. They are boxed in with nothing to fight with and they know it. You know you are already winning the argument when they have to rely on these tactics. Been doing this for years with the Right, and they never seem to pull that rabbit out of he hat, because everything they argue for is based upon lies, misinformation, their own emotions, and ignorance, which produces anger. Why do they resort to these tactics? Simple, "fear"! They think this country belongs to them, and they fear they are losing that ownership to all the "others" in this country. This last presidential election by the Right was primarily a referendum about race. The problem is, this country was founded by immigrants and we have a Constitution that has evolved to be inclusive of all people. "We the people" Remember?

Anyway, your strategy is spot on, and you will continue winning your own personal debates, because you use the truth and the facts as your debate material. And when they argue against that, they will lose every time, and you will always win.

I don't think it's fear actually, to use these tactics. If I'd have to give a motivation it's ego. People on this board are not normal. We spend time on a forum talking politics. Most of us do this because an overwhelming sense of righteousness I think. For people who have that sense of righteousness nothing is more painful then having to admit your wrong. I've done it a few times myself here and it's incredibly painful. I don't think it's all that surprising that people choose to resort to certain tactics to avoid that pain.

Just admit you are wrong when you are wrong. I've done it myself. It's not painful, because the error was an honest mistake. Hold your head high, tell the truth based on the facts, and the wind will always be to your back.It's that simple. The rest will take care of itself.

Like I said, I have an ego, to me it is painful. I just try to remind myself that I value honesty above my inflated sense of self worth. I can't say I'm universally successful. I can say without any false modesty that being able to acknowledge that personal flaw, makes me a better, if not more likable person.

Nothing wrong with an ego. It builds confidence. And with honesty, it's a deadly weapon against those who would prefer to knock you down. You're on the right track. Stay that way.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

If that's your opinion, then my opinion is that your opinion is simplistic. It comes back to my original point. You stated that it's ridiculous to state that Trump is compromised. Yet a lot of his foreign policy decisions only make sense if those decisions are written in the Kremlin. Withdrawing from Syria makes no sense for the US. The commitment is small. The US has a good ally there that does most of the fighting, ans it denies the Russians the influence they seek in the region. Going on camera and saying you believe Putin over your own intelligence community makes no sense. It demoralizes them, and gives a visual reminder to those watching that the US is unwilling to stand up to them. Giving the Russians code word level intel developed by Israel makes no sense. It shows the allies that giving intelligence to the US might end up in the hands of Russia.
Think of it like this. People on the right still chant "lock her up" because the then Secretary of State, Hilary Clinton had classified information on her private computer. It wasn't that she shouldn't have it. It wasn't that it was stolen. No the beef was that that information was deemed insecure and therefor shouldn't have been there. The highest level of classification was top secret. Trump flat out GAVE code word level intelligence to the Russians. Yet not a peep.
What would you guys have done if it would have been president Clinton? I think the first day the GOP would have yelled traitor and the second day would have been impeachment proceedings. The same can be said for Helsinki. Am I wrong?

It wasn’t that she had it. It was because she bleached it. Do you know how laborious that is? You don’t just hit delete. We were being civil but you turned into a Leftist extremist rude prick. All set with you and your fake intelligence. You can go and jump in a frozen lake/

I love this argument. So you are claiming that the GOP doesn't think that putting classified information on a private server is a problem as long as you don't try to hide it? Seems not a little bit weird of an argument. And in my view I've been civil. I've answered every single one of your arguments. Even when I very much suspect yours are not made in good faith. I've even went as far as thanking you for at least appearing to try to have a conversation. Not once did I obfuscate, deflect, attempt to change the subject, or refuse to answer outright. You've done all these things. It's not my fault that your counter arguments fall short.

Which is why they obfuscate, deflect, and change the subject. They don't have counter arguments. They are boxed in with nothing to fight with and they know it. You know you are already winning the argument when they have to rely on these tactics. Been doing this for years with the Right, and they never seem to pull that rabbit out of he hat, because everything they argue for is based upon lies, misinformation, their own emotions, and ignorance, which produces anger. Why do they resort to these tactics? Simple, "fear"! They think this country belongs to them, and they fear they are losing that ownership to all the "others" in this country. This last presidential election by the Right was primarily a referendum about race. The problem is, this country was founded by immigrants and we have a Constitution that has evolved to be inclusive of all people. "We the people" Remember?

Anyway, your strategy is spot on, and you will continue winning your own personal debates, because you use the truth and the facts as your debate material. And when they argue against that, they will lose every time, and you will always win.

I don't think it's fear actually, to use these tactics. If I'd have to give a motivation it's ego. People on this board are not normal. We spend time on a forum talking politics. Most of us do this because an overwhelming sense of righteousness I think. For people who have that sense of righteousness nothing is more painful then having to admit your wrong. I've done it a few times myself here and it's incredibly painful. I don't think it's all that surprising that people choose to resort to certain tactics to avoid that pain.

Just admit you are wrong when you are wrong. I've done it myself. It's not painful, because the error was an honest mistake. Hold your head high, tell the truth based on the facts, and the wind will always be to your back.It's that simple. The rest will take care of itself.

I am not wrong. HRC was a criminal with intent to lie and deceive. Trump was a businessman trying to win an election. I don't believe he is pro Russia and anti US. Not even close. ZERO ERROR. An opinion cannot be wrong, unless you're a Leftist.

 

[BWK]

It wasn’t that she had it. It was because she bleached it. Do you know how laborious that is? You don’t just hit delete. We were being civil but you turned into a Leftist extremist rude prick. All set with you and your fake intelligence. You can go and jump in a frozen lake/

I love this argument. So you are claiming that the GOP doesn't think that putting classified information on a private server is a problem as long as you don't try to hide it? Seems not a little bit weird of an argument. And in my view I've been civil. I've answered every single one of your arguments. Even when I very much suspect yours are not made in good faith. I've even went as far as thanking you for at least appearing to try to have a conversation. Not once did I obfuscate, deflect, attempt to change the subject, or refuse to answer outright. You've done all these things. It's not my fault that your counter arguments fall short.

Which is why they obfuscate, deflect, and change the subject. They don't have counter arguments. They are boxed in with nothing to fight with and they know it. You know you are already winning the argument when they have to rely on these tactics. Been doing this for years with the Right, and they never seem to pull that rabbit out of he hat, because everything they argue for is based upon lies, misinformation, their own emotions, and ignorance, which produces anger. Why do they resort to these tactics? Simple, "fear"! They think this country belongs to them, and they fear they are losing that ownership to all the "others" in this country. This last presidential election by the Right was primarily a referendum about race. The problem is, this country was founded by immigrants and we have a Constitution that has evolved to be inclusive of all people. "We the people" Remember?

Anyway, your strategy is spot on, and you will continue winning your own personal debates, because you use the truth and the facts as your debate material. And when they argue against that, they will lose every time, and you will always win.

I don't think it's fear actually, to use these tactics. If I'd have to give a motivation it's ego. People on this board are not normal. We spend time on a forum talking politics. Most of us do this because an overwhelming sense of righteousness I think. For people who have that sense of righteousness nothing is more painful then having to admit your wrong. I've done it a few times myself here and it's incredibly painful. I don't think it's all that surprising that people choose to resort to certain tactics to avoid that pain.

Just admit you are wrong when you are wrong. I've done it myself. It's not painful, because the error was an honest mistake. Hold your head high, tell the truth based on the facts, and the wind will always be to your back.It's that simple. The rest will take care of itself.

I am not wrong. HRC was a criminal with intent to lie and deceive.

Do you have any idea how big a lie that is? HRC is a criminal? Really? I don't see her in jail? Do you? And your proof there was "intent to lie and deceive"? You don't have that proof.

Trump was a businessman trying to win an election.

Trump has never been a businessman. He's a thief. He paid $25 million dollars for stealing from others.

I don't believe he is pro Russia and anti US.

So far, he's lied so much about Russia, the public has lost count of the lies about his contacts with Russia.

Not even close. ZERO ERROR. An opinion cannot be wrong, unless you're a Leftist.

You can google it on politi-fact if you don't believe me.

 

[Dana7360]

You guys have really lost it.

Agree ^^^.....and they lost it when America voted Donald Trump as President!

instead of their favorite witch ....Clinton.

Since then, they have not been able to have a moment of peace.




Thanks GOD for President Donald Trump!

Cheer leading for criminals. Go get em tiger. And by the way, don't break your neck debating the OP.

it gets boring trying to make the Clinton witch admirers .....and the DemonRats .....trying to show them the truth.....over ....and over....and over and over........

how thick you people are?????


but since it's Christmas......one more time

Comey debunks Steele dossier
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2018/04/comey_debunks_steele_dossier.html

Look people, we got us one making up lies from a link a retard could even catch. Will the poster please quote to us the exact words from Comey, "debunking the Dossier". Lol! People, I can't wait for this explanation.

Can you link us to the various articles talking about how Trump lost the election because of the dossier, or don’t they exist because you still lost?

The thing is that isn't what this thread is about.

The thread is about the dossier and how reliable it is, how all that has been investigated has turned out to be correct and no one can prove anything in it is incorrect.

Not whether trump won or not. Of course he won. That's not the point or what this thread is about.

So can you please stay on topic?

 

[depotoo]

N, t hasn’t. Lol. Only in your dreams, my dear., only in your dreams, and fictitious writings.

Agree ^^^.....and they lost it when America voted Donald Trump as President!

instead of their favorite witch ....Clinton.

Since then, they have not been able to have a moment of peace.




Thanks GOD for President Donald Trump!

Cheer leading for criminals. Go get em tiger. And by the way, don't break your neck debating the OP.

it gets boring trying to make the Clinton witch admirers .....and the DemonRats .....trying to show them the truth.....over ....and over....and over and over........

how thick you people are?????


but since it's Christmas......one more time

Comey debunks Steele dossier
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2018/04/comey_debunks_steele_dossier.html

Look people, we got us one making up lies from a link a retard could even catch. Will the poster please quote to us the exact words from Comey, "debunking the Dossier". Lol! People, I can't wait for this explanation.

Can you link us to the various articles talking about how Trump lost the election because of the dossier, or don’t they exist because you still lost?

The thing is that isn't what this thread is about.

The thread is about the dossier and how reliable it is, how all that has been investigated has turned out to be correct and no one can prove anything in it is incorrect.

Not whether trump won or not. Of course he won. That's not the point or what this thread is about.

So can you please stay on topic?

 

[forkup]

It wasn’t that she had it. It was because she bleached it. Do you know how laborious that is? You don’t just hit delete. We were being civil but you turned into a Leftist extremist rude prick. All set with you and your fake intelligence. You can go and jump in a frozen lake/

I love this argument. So you are claiming that the GOP doesn't think that putting classified information on a private server is a problem as long as you don't try to hide it? Seems not a little bit weird of an argument. And in my view I've been civil. I've answered every single one of your arguments. Even when I very much suspect yours are not made in good faith. I've even went as far as thanking you for at least appearing to try to have a conversation. Not once did I obfuscate, deflect, attempt to change the subject, or refuse to answer outright. You've done all these things. It's not my fault that your counter arguments fall short.

Which is why they obfuscate, deflect, and change the subject. They don't have counter arguments. They are boxed in with nothing to fight with and they know it. You know you are already winning the argument when they have to rely on these tactics. Been doing this for years with the Right, and they never seem to pull that rabbit out of he hat, because everything they argue for is based upon lies, misinformation, their own emotions, and ignorance, which produces anger. Why do they resort to these tactics? Simple, "fear"! They think this country belongs to them, and they fear they are losing that ownership to all the "others" in this country. This last presidential election by the Right was primarily a referendum about race. The problem is, this country was founded by immigrants and we have a Constitution that has evolved to be inclusive of all people. "We the people" Remember?

Anyway, your strategy is spot on, and you will continue winning your own personal debates, because you use the truth and the facts as your debate material. And when they argue against that, they will lose every time, and you will always win.

I don't think it's fear actually, to use these tactics. If I'd have to give a motivation it's ego. People on this board are not normal. We spend time on a forum talking politics. Most of us do this because an overwhelming sense of righteousness I think. For people who have that sense of righteousness nothing is more painful then having to admit your wrong. I've done it a few times myself here and it's incredibly painful. I don't think it's all that surprising that people choose to resort to certain tactics to avoid that pain.

Just admit you are wrong when you are wrong. I've done it myself. It's not painful, because the error was an honest mistake. Hold your head high, tell the truth based on the facts, and the wind will always be to your back.It's that simple. The rest will take care of itself.

I am not wrong. HRC was a criminal with intent to lie and deceive. Trump was a businessman trying to win an election. I don't believe he is pro Russia and anti US. Not even close. ZERO ERROR. An opinion cannot be wrong, unless you're a Leftist.

-Opinions are wrong all the time. At one time it was the general opinion that the earth was flat. I think we can agree that, that opinion is wrong. At one time Trump expressed the opinion that Mexico would pay for the wall. Obviously wrong.
-As to your opinion of Trump, I've done nothing than ask you to support that opinion. The thing is you seem to be unable to do so.
You know how they call something you believe without being able to support it right? They call it faith. That's probably why you said that opinions can't be wrong. Because you think that an opinion is the same as faith. And because people generally are more understanding of not challenging faith you think that you deserve that consideration? I'm sorry but when something is wrong it is wrong no matter how you package it.
-HRC not only did way less then Trump has done, but after multiple investigations by both the DOJ and both houses nothing prosecutable has been established. What's more. Those conclusions have not been challenged even after Trump has had 2 years and the control of all agencies tasked with going after criminals to make it stick. I find it funny by the way that you still seem to suggest that taking your work home is criminal. But giving the Russians intelligence given to you by your allies is not worth more than a yawn.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

I love this argument. So you are claiming that the GOP doesn't think that putting classified information on a private server is a problem as long as you don't try to hide it? Seems not a little bit weird of an argument. And in my view I've been civil. I've answered every single one of your arguments. Even when I very much suspect yours are not made in good faith. I've even went as far as thanking you for at least appearing to try to have a conversation. Not once did I obfuscate, deflect, attempt to change the subject, or refuse to answer outright. You've done all these things. It's not my fault that your counter arguments fall short.

Which is why they obfuscate, deflect, and change the subject. They don't have counter arguments. They are boxed in with nothing to fight with and they know it. You know you are already winning the argument when they have to rely on these tactics. Been doing this for years with the Right, and they never seem to pull that rabbit out of he hat, because everything they argue for is based upon lies, misinformation, their own emotions, and ignorance, which produces anger. Why do they resort to these tactics? Simple, "fear"! They think this country belongs to them, and they fear they are losing that ownership to all the "others" in this country. This last presidential election by the Right was primarily a referendum about race. The problem is, this country was founded by immigrants and we have a Constitution that has evolved to be inclusive of all people. "We the people" Remember?

Anyway, your strategy is spot on, and you will continue winning your own personal debates, because you use the truth and the facts as your debate material. And when they argue against that, they will lose every time, and you will always win.

I don't think it's fear actually, to use these tactics. If I'd have to give a motivation it's ego. People on this board are not normal. We spend time on a forum talking politics. Most of us do this because an overwhelming sense of righteousness I think. For people who have that sense of righteousness nothing is more painful then having to admit your wrong. I've done it a few times myself here and it's incredibly painful. I don't think it's all that surprising that people choose to resort to certain tactics to avoid that pain.

Just admit you are wrong when you are wrong. I've done it myself. It's not painful, because the error was an honest mistake. Hold your head high, tell the truth based on the facts, and the wind will always be to your back.It's that simple. The rest will take care of itself.

I am not wrong. HRC was a criminal with intent to lie and deceive. Trump was a businessman trying to win an election. I don't believe he is pro Russia and anti US. Not even close. ZERO ERROR. An opinion cannot be wrong, unless you're a Leftist.

-Opinions are wrong all the time. At one time it was the general opinion that the earth was flat. I think we can agree that, that opinion is wrong. At one time Trump expressed the opinion that Mexico would pay for the wall. Obviously wrong.
-As to your opinion of Trump, I've done nothing than ask you to support that opinion. The thing is you seem to be unable to do so.
You know how they call something you believe without being able to support it right? They call it faith. That's probably why you said that opinions can't be wrong. Because you think that an opinion is the same as faith. And because people generally are more understanding of not challenging faith you think that you deserve that consideration? I'm sorry but when something is wrong it is wrong no matter how you package it.
-HRC not only did way less then Trump has done, but after multiple investigations by both the DOJ and both houses nothing prosecutable has been established. What's more. Those conclusions have not been challenged even after Trump has had 2 years and the control of all agencies tasked with going after criminals to make it stick. I find it funny by the way that you still seem to suggest that taking your work home is criminal. But giving the Russians intelligence given to you by your allies is not worth more than a yawn.

An opinion can never be wrong. Look up the operational definition. People thought the Earth was flat because they didn’t have the facts to prove them wrong. Once facts were received that opinion became invalid. For example in my opinion the Chiefs will win the SB. If they lose, it didn’t make my opinion wrong at the time but circumstances changed. I am 6’3 = fact. I am tall = opinion. If you cannot even see that an opinion cannot be wrong there is no point in us conversing any longer. About any topic.