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The Sinking of Russia's Flagship Might Be a Bad Sign for the U.S. Navy

BertramN

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The Sinking of Russia's Flagship Might Be a Bad Sign for the U.S. Navy

According to former assistant defense secretary Christopher Dougherty, “‘The U.S. Navy is on the verge of strategic bankruptcy. Its fleet isn't large enough to meet global day-to-day demands for naval forces. Due to repeated deployments and maintenance backlogs, the fleet also isn't ready enough to meet these demands safely, nor can it quickly surge in an emergency.’”

It is most likely the sinking of the Russian Navy's Black Sea flagship, the Moskva, was the result of a missile attack launched by the Ukrainians, it offers proof of Mr. Dougherty’s assertions concerning the U.S. Navy’s increasing vulnerability.

With the traditional “bloated Pentagon budget”, those in the position to decide, usually squander a large portion of this borrowed cash developing and building new weapon systems that are obsolete before they leave the drawing board.

Like all decisions made by the legislative and executive branches of our government, the massive loans secured by these two branches is always done with an eye toward how best to benefit Big Business and the billionaire class, as these two groups are the “deep pockets” that provide high-dollar political contributions.

So, in the same way as the maintenance and repair of our national infrastructure is ignored decade after decade, so is the maintenance and repair of existing military equipment.

Unfortunately, the congressional hawks put their reelection campaign donors’ profits above the safety of the United States’ military personnel.

After all, spending tens-of-millions of borrowed federal dollars on the neglected maintenance and repair of the machinery for each branch of the U.S. Armed Forces would divert this money away from major players of the Defense Industry, and therefore, the billionaire class. Sadly, that’s not the way the self-serving conservative and moderate members of the legislative and executive branches of our government do business. So, the preparedness of the Navy (as well as the Army, Air Force, Marine Corps, and Coast Guard) will, inevitably, continue to deteriorate.

Of course, the Navy’s maintenance woes could be moot. If Putin’s war with the Ukraine continues to go badly, the U.S. and others continue to provide weaponry to Ukraine, Sweden and Finland defy Putin and join NATO, and, in the coming weeks Putin faces certain removal by Russian officials, these factors could very well motivate Putin to “take everyone with him” by launching a full-on nuclear attack on all the NATO allies. How would his many, many U.S. fans react to such a move by their Russian hero?








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candycorn

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The Sinking of Russia's Flagship Might Be a Bad Sign for the U.S. Navy

According to former assistant defense secretary Christopher Dougherty, “‘The U.S. Navy is on the verge of strategic bankruptcy. Its fleet isn't large enough to meet global day-to-day demands for naval forces. Due to repeated deployments and maintenance backlogs, the fleet also isn't ready enough to meet these demands safely, nor can it quickly surge in an emergency.’”

It is most likely the sinking of the Russian Navy's Black Sea flagship, the Moskva, was the result of a missile attack launched by the Ukrainians, it offers proof of Mr. Dougherty’s assertions concerning the U.S. Navy’s increasing vulnerability.

With the traditional “bloated Pentagon budget”, those in the position to decide, usually squander a large portion of this borrowed cash developing and building new weapon systems that are obsolete before they leave the drawing board.

Like all decisions made by the legislative and executive branches of our government, the massive loans secured by these two branches is always done with an eye toward how best to benefit Big Business and the billionaire class, as these two groups are the “deep pockets” that provide high-dollar political contributions.

So, in the same way as the maintenance and repair of our national infrastructure is ignored decade after decade, so is the maintenance and repair of existing military equipment.

Unfortunately, the congressional hawks put their reelection campaign donors’ profits above the safety of the United States’ military personnel.

After all, spending tens-of-millions of borrowed federal dollars on the neglected maintenance and repair of the machinery for each branch of the U.S. Armed Forces would divert this money away from major players of the Defense Industry, and therefore, the billionaire class. Sadly, that’s not the way the self-serving conservative and moderate members of the legislative and executive branches of our government do business. So, the preparedness of the Navy (as well as the Army, Air Force, Marine Corps, and Coast Guard) will, inevitably, continue to deteriorate.

Of course, the Navy’s maintenance woes could be moot. If Putin’s war with the Ukraine continues to go badly, the U.S. and others continue to provide weaponry to Ukraine, Sweden and Finland defy Putin and join NATO, and, in the coming weeks Putin faces certain removal by Russian officials, these factors could very well motivate Putin to “take everyone with him” by launching a full-on nuclear attack on all the NATO allies. How would his many, many U.S. fans react to such a move by their Russian hero?








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In one way, I agree with you. As guerrilla warfare seems to be the new normal on land, it would stand to reason that slow moving large weapons platforms at sea would be more vulnerable.

In another way, I think you discount the amount of training we put into the personnel we have on station. I worked with a gentleman (and his wife) who were on a warship (I don't recall if it was a destroyer or cruiser). Getting to sea was a hard road....but once at sea, they train and train and train and train.
 

fncceo

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Its fleet isn't large enough to meet global day-to-day demands for naval forces.

The US Navy began the War in the Pacific with 4 operational aircraft carriers, four battleships, and a significantly reduced fleet. By the end of World War II, just three years later, the US had nearly 7,000 operational warships, including 28 aircraft carriers and 23 battleships.

The industrial capabilities of The US and the ability to quickly produce weapons is more that able to keep up with the increased requirements should we find ourselves once more in a global war.
 

Oddball

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The US Navy began the War in the Pacific with 4 operational aircraft carriers, four battleships, and a significantly reduced fleet. By the end of World War II, just three years later, the US had nearly 7,000 operational warships, including 28 aircraft carriers and 23 battleships.

The industrial capabilities of The US and the ability to quickly produce weapons is more that able to keep up with the increased requirements should we find ourselves once more in a global war.
Unfortunately, Murica doesn't have anywhere near the number of even marginally skilled craftsmen as were available back then....Certainly not the number who would want to work that hard.
 

fncceo

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Unfortunately, Murica doesn't have anywhere near the number of even marginally skilled craftsmen as were available back then....Certainly not the number who would want to work that hard.

A great deal of America's trained workforce ended up in the military during World War II. Those skilled workers that stayed at their jobs (either because of age or disqualification for military service) were quickly able to train the capacity from an unskilled workforce (including millions of women with no experience at all in machine skills) in a matter of just months.

A common belief at the beginning of World War II, a belief that emboldened both Germany and Japan to attack American ships without fear of retaliation, was that Americans wouldn't or couldn't fight a war.

The common belief was that we were too lazy and addicted to pleasure to do what had to be done to fight a war like our enemies.

Mom and Dad (and Grandma and Grandpa) proved them wrong.

main-qimg-ea7d678ceec76f4ddb9aaffed1f99e7f-lq.jpg
learn-woman-working-in-munitions-5394458.jpg
 

Oddball

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A great deal of America's trained workforce ended up in the military during World War II. Those skilled workers that stayed at their jobs (either because of age or disqualification for military service) were quickly able to train the capacity from an unskilled workforce (including millions of women with no experience at all in machine skills) in a matter of just months.

A common belief at the beginning of World War II, a belief that emboldened both Germany and Japan to attack American ships without fear of retaliation, was that Americans wouldn't or couldn't fight a war.

The common belief was that we were too lazy and addicted to pleasure to do what had to be done to fight a war like our enemies.

Mom and Dad (and Grandma and Grandpa) proved them wrong.

View attachment 632761View attachment 632762
Oh, I realize all that.....Point being that today's "workers" aren't anywhere near as patriotic or industrious as those people.

I take no solace or joy in saying that.
 

Esdraelon

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Oh, I realize all that.....Point being that today's "workers" aren't anywhere near as patriotic or industrious as those people.

I take no solace or joy in saying that.
You may be right. But just imagine the group of whiners' reaction when they realize that hating Trump or Republicans doesn't help them at all. I mean, they've been so thoroughly indoctrinated in hate as a first response that they're going to be shattered when they realize it really doesn't help feed, house, or protect them.
 

MAGA Macho Man

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American women stepped in and worked the aircraft factories and munition plants. They did their job.
 

eagle1462010

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Our capabilities are much greater than in WWII.........so are the others in this world..........We can hit them at home in hours and so can they.

Who has the big guns on day one.............will more than likely win...........There is no time in years to build up given our technology............

Killer drones are the wave of the future and they are boxed up saying only to opened in a war with China.
 

whitehall

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Maybe fat assed admirals need to understand the cold hard fact that the days of naval warfare were over when a speedboat full of jihadists sunk a U.S. warship. Gigantic carriers would be sitting ducks for complicated missile technology that seems to be available to any regime these days.
 

eagle1462010

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Maybe fat assed admirals need to understand the cold hard fact that the days of naval warfare were over when a speedboat full of jihadists sunk a U.S. warship. Gigantic carriers would be sitting ducks for complicated missile technology that seems to be available to any regime these days.
LOL

Take those speedboat into the deep blue sea and see how they fare.

Persian Gulf is a small area............not the same as the South China Sea. It's not as easy as you think to sneak in a Carrier Group if we go to War. All countries have a variety of assets for SPEFIC JOBS.
 

Turtlesoup

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A great deal of America's trained workforce ended up in the military during World War II. Those skilled workers that stayed at their jobs (either because of age or disqualification for military service) were quickly able to train the capacity from an unskilled workforce (including millions of women with no experience at all in machine skills) in a matter of just months.

A common belief at the beginning of World War II, a belief that emboldened both Germany and Japan to attack American ships without fear of retaliation, was that Americans wouldn't or couldn't fight a war.

The common belief was that we were too lazy and addicted to pleasure to do what had to be done to fight a war like our enemies.

Mom and Dad (and Grandma and Grandpa) proved them wrong.

View attachment 632761View attachment 632762
People then had more work ethics and were willing to sacrifice for the country----we are not the same people in many instances.
 

fncceo

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People then had more work ethics and were willing to sacrifice for the country----we are not the same people in many instances.

One of the reasons that The Japanese felt they could attack Pearl Harbor with impunity and why Germans had no fear of sinking American merchant and passenger ships was the widely held belief that Americans were weak, lazy, cowardly people, more interested in Jazz and dancing, who would never and could never fight back against the more disciplined Germans and Japanese.

Many Americans believed this as well.

Lucky for us ... it turned out to not be true.

If Americas are ever again faced with an existential threat, I hope we will find the will to defend ourselves.
 

22lcidw

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A great deal of America's trained workforce ended up in the military during World War II. Those skilled workers that stayed at their jobs (either because of age or disqualification for military service) were quickly able to train the capacity from an unskilled workforce (including millions of women with no experience at all in machine skills) in a matter of just months.

A common belief at the beginning of World War II, a belief that emboldened both Germany and Japan to attack American ships without fear of retaliation, was that Americans wouldn't or couldn't fight a war.

The common belief was that we were too lazy and addicted to pleasure to do what had to be done to fight a war like our enemies.

Mom and Dad (and Grandma and Grandpa) proved them wrong.

View attachment 632761View attachment 632762
Many immigrants from Europe before the war had to have a trade or education to enter the country. That helped when the nation started to grow again.
 

Remodeling Maidiac

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Unfortunately, Murica doesn't have anywhere near the number of even marginally skilled craftsmen as were available back then....Certainly not the number who would want to work that hard.
Nonsense

Back then it was unskilled housewives building our assets.

Very little skill is required to stand on an assembly line
 

Remodeling Maidiac

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Back then, those women had a work ethic that isn't anywhere near as prevalent today.
Fair enough but with automation I don't think that's as big an issue as you think
 

Oddball

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Fair enough but with automation I don't think that's as big an issue as you think
The way we're headed, there isn't going to be enough electrical generation capacity to run the automation.

Wwe are experiencing a full court press from people who hate modern technological society.
 

justoffal

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The Sinking of Russia's Flagship Might Be a Bad Sign for the U.S. Navy

According to former assistant defense secretary Christopher Dougherty, “‘The U.S. Navy is on the verge of strategic bankruptcy. Its fleet isn't large enough to meet global day-to-day demands for naval forces. Due to repeated deployments and maintenance backlogs, the fleet also isn't ready enough to meet these demands safely, nor can it quickly surge in an emergency.’”

It is most likely the sinking of the Russian Navy's Black Sea flagship, the Moskva, was the result of a missile attack launched by the Ukrainians, it offers proof of Mr. Dougherty’s assertions concerning the U.S. Navy’s increasing vulnerability.

With the traditional “bloated Pentagon budget”, those in the position to decide, usually squander a large portion of this borrowed cash developing and building new weapon systems that are obsolete before they leave the drawing board.

Like all decisions made by the legislative and executive branches of our government, the massive loans secured by these two branches is always done with an eye toward how best to benefit Big Business and the billionaire class, as these two groups are the “deep pockets” that provide high-dollar political contributions.

So, in the same way as the maintenance and repair of our national infrastructure is ignored decade after decade, so is the maintenance and repair of existing military equipment.

Unfortunately, the congressional hawks put their reelection campaign donors’ profits above the safety of the United States’ military personnel.

After all, spending tens-of-millions of borrowed federal dollars on the neglected maintenance and repair of the machinery for each branch of the U.S. Armed Forces would divert this money away from major players of the Defense Industry, and therefore, the billionaire class. Sadly, that’s not the way the self-serving conservative and moderate members of the legislative and executive branches of our government do business. So, the preparedness of the Navy (as well as the Army, Air Force, Marine Corps, and Coast Guard) will, inevitably, continue to deteriorate.

Of course, the Navy’s maintenance woes could be moot. If Putin’s war with the Ukraine continues to go badly, the U.S. and others continue to provide weaponry to Ukraine, Sweden and Finland defy Putin and join NATO, and, in the coming weeks Putin faces certain removal by Russian officials, these factors could very well motivate Putin to “take everyone with him” by launching a full-on nuclear attack on all the NATO allies. How would his many, many U.S. fans react to such a move by their Russian hero?








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You are exactly right. There isn't a single floating ship of war today that is not already obsolete. The Larger the ship the more obsolete it is. With all the Fanfare surrounding the building of the new super-aircraft carriers one thing the Pentagon forgot to mention is that anti-ship weaponry consisting of high accuracy missile assets has become so effective that basically anything That floats bigger than a 10x10 raft is nothing but a doomed Target.
 

Sandisk

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The Sinking of Russia's Flagship Might Be a Bad Sign for the U.S. Navy

According to former assistant defense secretary Christopher Dougherty, “‘The U.S. Navy is on the verge of strategic bankruptcy. Its fleet isn't large enough to meet global day-to-day demands for naval forces. Due to repeated deployments and maintenance backlogs, the fleet also isn't ready enough to meet these demands safely, nor can it quickly surge in an emergency.’”

It is most likely the sinking of the Russian Navy's Black Sea flagship, the Moskva, was the result of a missile attack launched by the Ukrainians, it offers proof of Mr. Dougherty’s assertions concerning the U.S. Navy’s increasing vulnerability.

With the traditional “bloated Pentagon budget”, those in the position to decide, usually squander a large portion of this borrowed cash developing and building new weapon systems that are obsolete before they leave the drawing board.

Like all decisions made by the legislative and executive branches of our government, the massive loans secured by these two branches is always done with an eye toward how best to benefit Big Business and the billionaire class, as these two groups are the “deep pockets” that provide high-dollar political contributions.

So, in the same way as the maintenance and repair of our national infrastructure is ignored decade after decade, so is the maintenance and repair of existing military equipment.

Unfortunately, the congressional hawks put their reelection campaign donors’ profits above the safety of the United States’ military personnel.

After all, spending tens-of-millions of borrowed federal dollars on the neglected maintenance and repair of the machinery for each branch of the U.S. Armed Forces would divert this money away from major players of the Defense Industry, and therefore, the billionaire class. Sadly, that’s not the way the self-serving conservative and moderate members of the legislative and executive branches of our government do business. So, the preparedness of the Navy (as well as the Army, Air Force, Marine Corps, and Coast Guard) will, inevitably, continue to deteriorate.

Of course, the Navy’s maintenance woes could be moot. If Putin’s war with the Ukraine continues to go badly, the U.S. and others continue to provide weaponry to Ukraine, Sweden and Finland defy Putin and join NATO, and, in the coming weeks Putin faces certain removal by Russian officials, these factors could very well motivate Putin to “take everyone with him” by launching a full-on nuclear attack on all the NATO allies. How would his many, many U.S. fans react to such a move by their Russian hero?








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As usual, the MSM has not a CLUE what they are talking about.

1)
the Moskva was not the Russian Navy's 'flagship'.
It was only the 'flagship' in the Black Sea.
Ships are often named as flagships of different fleets and groups.

The Russian Navy has an aircraft carrier and two battlecruisers that are between 2.5 and 5 times more displacement than the sunken Moskva.
Plus, 30+ submarines that all are of greater displacement than the sunken Moskva.

2) also, the anti-missile radars and anti-missile defense systems on the Moskva were not even activated and/or manned during the time of the attacks.

It's pretty easy to sink a ship when you activate ZERO of your layered, defensive weapon systems.


This sinking was HIGHLY embarrassing for the Russian Navy.
But it in no way provides evidence for or against the Moskva's combat capabilities OR surface warships in general against attacks from ASM's (Anti-Ship Missiles).
 
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