The Sham Trial Against Trump

[Mac1958]

And we know that you will hate him no matter what.

I hate no one. I'm not like you. Thank goodness.

 

[Foxfyre]

And fairness in the business market place that businesses expect and rely on.

How fair is it to the businesses that follow the law, and submit truthful certified financial statements? They follow the law and regulations and get a worse loan and higher interest rate than the business like Trump's who defrauded the bank with their CFS?

Businesses need to know the banking market place is fair, to all.

Bankers are in the business of making profits for the bank and it is a rare bank that lends out of the goodness of their heart regardless of who the borrower is. No bank was defrauded nor has any banker suggested the bank was defrauded by Trump. Loan decisions and in many cases interest rates are determined by a person's track record for repaying loans and the bank's assessment of the borrower's ability to repay the loan. Value of collateral for loans is based on its their current value and the likelihood of their value over the life of the loan. Any income the collateral will most likely generate is also a factor in that.

I'm pretty darn sure that a businessman with 50 years of high value real estate experience and the bank are far more capable of judging the existing and future value of the real estate collateral against the amount of a loan than is a prejudicial partisan judge and AG.

 

[Foxfyre]

They are doing such a good job that it is all helping Trump climb in the polls for 2024.

For sure. His rally in Hialeah last night was amazing. Again I marvel that no matter what they throw at him, Trump is able to pull in thousands of supportive fans --more often than not tens of thousands--at all his rallies where all the fans can expect is a series of windup speeches plus Trump.

The Democrats have to mostly utilize top tier entertainers to get people to come to their events or else they have to pay or order people so that there will at least be a few in attendance.

I don't know if they'll succeed in jailing Trump before the election but if they don't he almost certainly will be the GOP nominee and if the polls hold up will be the next President. All the dishonest weaponization of the government to take him down just makes him more and more popular it seems.

If they do jail him he could win anyway. And that would present a whole new interesting constitutional debate wouldn't it.

 

[WorldWatcher]

is it your contention that Trump is the ONLY business man in NY to ever do this?

Oh god no.

The earliest use of the law that I could find goes back to 1977, so no FPOTUS#45 isn't the only one ever to do this nor is is the only to have a complaint filed against him.

WW

 

[BackAgain]

I'm not really understanding this trial. What is it about? We've got a TDS anti-Trump prosecutor, a TDS anti-Trump judge who, before the trial even started, found Trump guilty without a jury of his peers, and now we are parading a bunch of so called witnesses through the court to determine the amount of damages of which the same TDS anti-Trump judge will decide the amount of those damages, claiming that Trump defrauded banks even though no bank claims that Trump defrauded them.

And, we've got those two clowns who are on record of saying they are going after Trump while getting all bent out of shape when Trump says that if he wins he will then go after them. What am I missing? Get this sham over with already so that Trump can then appeal the case.

Sham is the right word.

And it’s very telling that we can all predict the outcome. There is obviously going to be a “verdict” against Trump beyond just the partial summary judgment. (It found “fraud” despite zero victims which is a pure legal absurdity.)

The “damages” are going to be hefty despite the fact that there was zero basis to find “fraud” in the first place.

So, we all know that justice will not take place at all at the trial level. It can only be found at the appellate stage — or stages.

This entire case is a mockery of American “justice.”

 

[Marener]

So, you're saying that the banks should rely on truthful loan information and not check anything out?

That’s not what I said at all. You shouldn’t make such broad assumptions.

 

[Marener]

Whatever the judgement against Trump is, is that money going to go over to the supposedly victimized banks? My heart is so touched for your concern of those one percent bankers being cheated out of money.

If the banks want damages they are more than welcome to sue Trump themselves.

 

[Marener]

Loan decisions and in many cases interest rates are determined by a person's track record for repaying loans and the bank's assessment of the borrower's ability to repay the loan

Precisely. Thats what the statement of financial condition is for. Thats why it’s fraud for Trump to lie on it.

 

[L.K.Eder]

Precisely. Thats what the statement of financial condition is for. Thats why it’s fraud for Trump to lie on it.

if those disingenuous twats read the ruling, their sham questions would be answered.

 

[Foxfyre]

Precisely. Thats what the statement of financial condition is for. Thats why it’s fraud for Trump to lie on it.

It isn't fraudulent at all for a borrower to believe a property is worth more than its immediate appraisal. If I put a value on something I own and it turns out not to be worth that much to anybody else, it isn't fraud. It's faulty judgment on my part. My intent was not to defraud anybody but to make as much money as I can. Believe me in a free market capitalistic system nobody charges less than they think or hope the public is willing to pay unless it is a temporary loss leader to entice buyers or something marked down for quick sale to get rid of it.

And ALL financial statements are subjective when everything that can be is factored into them is factored into them.

Again I would give the advantage to a 50-year high value real estate veteran and the lender making the loan to assess the value/worth of property every single time over the opinion of a prejudicial militarized judge and AG or somebody who looks for any reason to bash Trump.

 

[Care4all]

Bankers are in the business of making profits for the bank and it is a rare bank that lends out of the goodness of their heart regardless of who the borrower is. No bank was defrauded nor has any banker suggested the bank was defrauded by Trump. Loan decisions and in many cases interest rates are determined by a person's track record for repaying loans and the bank's assessment of the borrower's ability to repay the loan. Value of collateral for loans is based on its their current value and the likelihood of their value over the life of the loan. Any income the collateral will most likely generate is also a factor in that.

I'm pretty darn sure that a businessman with 50 years of high value real estate experience and the bank are far more capable of judging the existing and future value of the real estate collateral against the amount of a loan than is a prejudicial partisan judge and AG.

Trump Org has been considered a high risk for U.S. Banks since all of his bankruptcies....not a low risk, a high risk.... Not considered a good businessman, but a bad one, at high risk of failure.

How Often Has Donald Trump Declared Bankruptcy? - Cibik Law

Donald Trump's business record seems riddled with unfortunate events. Despite never having filed for personal bankruptcy, reports state that he filed for business bankruptcy at least four times.

philadelphiabankruptcylawyers.com

Trump, however, filed for bankruptcy regarding these companies:

• The Trump Taj Mahal in 1991 — Trump financed the completion of the Taj Mahal casino construction with $675 million in junk bonds at 14 percent interest. In 1992, the casino was in debt by $3 billion. Trump ended up owing approximately $900 million in personal liabilities. To keep the casino open, Trump made a deal with lenders by giving up his half of ownership and equity in the entity. He sold his airplane and his 220-foot yacht and agreed to a bank-set limit on his spending if he would lower the interest rate and have more time to make his loan payments.
• Trump Castle Hotel & Casino in 1992 and Trump Plaza Casino 1992 — In less than a year, Trump filed for Chapter 11 protection for two more Atlantic City hotel-casinos. Trump was unable to make the principle and interest payments on bonds. At this point, the Taj Mahal was competing with the hotel-casinos Trump Plaza ($550 million in debt) and Trump’s Castle ($338 million in debt). Trump forfeited a 50 percent share in exchange for better terms on the money he owed.
• Trump Plaza Hotel 1992 — This was the year that Trump filed for bankruptcy protection over the Trump Plaza Hotel. Trump gave up his 49 percent stake in the property to secure better terms from lenders on the hotel’s debt of over $550 million.
• Trump Hotels and Casinos Resorts in 2004 — At this time, Trump had already consolidated his three casinos, and some other properties, under one company. In 2004, He sought Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection for the entity and filed in the area of $1.8 billion of debt. Once more, Trump’s ownership was lessened from 47 percent to 27 percent so that he could get more favorable terms from lenders.
• Trump Entertainment Resorts in 2009 — Trump Hotels and Casino Resorts were renamed Trump Entertainment Resorts (TER) after the 2004 bankruptcy. In 2009, TER filed for Chapter 11 with a debt of $1.2 billion. Trump reduced his ownership to 10 percent and resigned as chairman of the board.

Critics cite that the Trump corporate bankruptcies are examples of his inability to manage, his recklessness, and poor business acumen.

Thus going to Deutsche Bank from my understanding? One way for him to reduce his risk is to increase his asset to debt ratio.

Trump chose to increase his asset value, by being deceptive. Under NY law, that intentional deception on certified financial documents is considered fraud.... And doing so for decades is considered persistent fraud.

That being said, the punishment rumored, seems harsh!!

 

[Care4all]

It isn't fraudulent at all for a borrower to believe a property is worth more than its immediate appraisal. If I put a value on something I own and it turns out not to be worth that much to anybody else, it isn't fraud. It's faulty judgment on my part. My intent was not to defraud anybody but to make as much money as I can. Believe me in a free market capitalistic system nobody charges less than they think or hope the public is willing to pay unless it is a temporary loss leader to entice buyers or something marked down for quick sale to get rid of it.

And ALL financial statements are subjective when everything that can be is factored into them is factored into them.

Again I would give the advantage to a 50-year high value real estate veteran and the lender making the loan to assess the value/worth of property every single time over the opinion of a prejudicial militarized judge and AG or somebody who looks for any reason to bash Trump.

You do not know the facts in the case.....read up on it!

 

[Marener]

It isn't fraudulent at all for a borrower to believe a property is worth more than its immediate appraisal. If I put a value on something I own and it turns out not to be worth that much to anybody else, it isn't fraud. It's faulty judgment on my part. My intent was not to defraud anybody but to make as much money as I can. Believe me in a free market capitalistic system nobody charges less than they think or hope the public is willing to pay unless it is a temporary loss leader to entice buyers or something marked down for quick sale to get rid of it.

And ALL financial statements are subjective when everything that can be is factored into them is factored into them.

Again I would give the advantage to a 50-year high value real estate veteran and the lender making the loan to assess the value/worth of property every single time over the opinion of a prejudicial militarized judge and AG or somebody who looks for any reason to bash Trump.

It is if you are basing that belief on facts which are false. Such as lying about the square footage of his Manhattan penthouse or the building and usage limitations on his property at Mar a Lago. These are not subjective. These are facts which cannot be ignored.

But more to the point, fair market value has a meaning and it does not mean "whatever you think". Everyone wants to make money. That's often the reason to engage in fraud.

 

[leftwinger]

Precisely. Thats what the statement of financial condition is for. Thats why it’s fraud for Trump to lie on it.

Banks, IRS, Employers do not accept lies. End of story. They verify all. Trump is not a real-estate appraiser as far as I know. The Bank has them on call or on staff. Due Diligence its' called.

 

[Robert W]

Trump is corrupt. I thought you would have gotten this by now. If he wasn't, he wouldn't be in the situations he's in. And this is just the low hanging fruit trial. But in some ways, it's bigger than the other three trials. This one goes to to the heart of Trump's four decades of bragging about "The Art of the Deal" and him being this successful, savvy businessman. When in fact, he lost all his daddy's money and then proceeded to scam and fraud his way through the next decades. The fine coming from this trial may bankrupt him and take away his family's right to do business in the state of NY. More than that, it will forever dispel the notion that Trump is anything but a grifting con artist.

Josef Stalin came back in the form of a black female AG. And she got the job by being elected. And the Judge is a Stalinist as well.

 

[Marener]

Banks, IRS, Employers do not accept lies. End of story. They verify all. Trump is not a real-estate appraiser as far as I know. The Bank has them on call or on staff. Due Diligence its' called.

It is not practical for the bank to do independent evaluations of every property under Trump's portfolio and shouldn't be necessary considering it's illegal to blatantly lie on the statement.

 

[Foxfyre]

Trump Org has been considered a high risk for U.S. Banks since all of his bankruptcies....not a low risk, a high risk.... Not considered a good businessman, but a bad one, at high risk of failure.

How Often Has Donald Trump Declared Bankruptcy? - Cibik Law

Donald Trump's business record seems riddled with unfortunate events. Despite never having filed for personal bankruptcy, reports state that he filed for business bankruptcy at least four times.

philadelphiabankruptcylawyers.com

Trump, however, filed for bankruptcy regarding these companies:

• The Trump Taj Mahal in 1991 — Trump financed the completion of the Taj Mahal casino construction with $675 million in junk bonds at 14 percent interest. In 1992, the casino was in debt by $3 billion. Trump ended up owing approximately $900 million in personal liabilities. To keep the casino open, Trump made a deal with lenders by giving up his half of ownership and equity in the entity. He sold his airplane and his 220-foot yacht and agreed to a bank-set limit on his spending if he would lower the interest rate and have more time to make his loan payments.
• Trump Castle Hotel & Casino in 1992 and Trump Plaza Casino 1992 — In less than a year, Trump filed for Chapter 11 protection for two more Atlantic City hotel-casinos. Trump was unable to make the principle and interest payments on bonds. At this point, the Taj Mahal was competing with the hotel-casinos Trump Plaza ($550 million in debt) and Trump’s Castle ($338 million in debt). Trump forfeited a 50 percent share in exchange for better terms on the money he owed.
• Trump Plaza Hotel 1992 — This was the year that Trump filed for bankruptcy protection over the Trump Plaza Hotel. Trump gave up his 49 percent stake in the property to secure better terms from lenders on the hotel’s debt of over $550 million.
• Trump Hotels and Casinos Resorts in 2004 — At this time, Trump had already consolidated his three casinos, and some other properties, under one company. In 2004, He sought Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection for the entity and filed in the area of $1.8 billion of debt. Once more, Trump’s ownership was lessened from 47 percent to 27 percent so that he could get more favorable terms from lenders.
• Trump Entertainment Resorts in 2009 — Trump Hotels and Casino Resorts were renamed Trump Entertainment Resorts (TER) after the 2004 bankruptcy. In 2009, TER filed for Chapter 11 with a debt of $1.2 billion. Trump reduced his ownership to 10 percent and resigned as chairman of the board.

Critics cite that the Trump corporate bankruptcies are examples of his inability to manage, his recklessness, and poor business acumen.

Thus going to Deutsche Bank from my understanding? One way for him to reduce his risk is to increase his asset to debt ratio.

Trump chose to increase his asset value, by being deceptive. Under NY law, that intentional deception on certified financial documents is considered fraud.... And doing so for decades is considered persistent fraud.

That being said, the punishment rumored, seems harsh!!

I know all the history Care and also known going back decades to find dirt doesn't really hold up in good debate. Trump doesn't have any problem getting loans.

 

[Foxfyre]

It is if you are basing that belief on facts which are false. Such as lying about the square footage of his Manhattan penthouse or the building and usage limitations on his property at Mar a Lago. These are not subjective. These are facts which cannot be ignored.

But more to the point, fair market value has a meaning and it does not mean "whatever you think". Everyone wants to make money. That's often the reason to engage in fraud.

Again TDS makes a poor basis for debate, most especially when you believe malicious dirt spread around instead of looking for actual facts.

 

[progressive hunter]

It is not practical for the bank to do independent evaluations of every property under Trump's portfolio and shouldn't be necessary considering it's illegal to blatantly lie on the statement.

its not just practical but mandated that a bank do an independent evaluation on every property they do a deal on,,

trump can value his property at any price he wants,,

 

[MagicMike]

If the banks were defrauded, shouldn't they be the ones collecting the money from the judgement?

Are the banks the ones suing him?