The Roberts census opinion is an attack on our representative system of government

johnwk

Gold Member
May 24, 2009
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Just for the record, the Administrative Procedure Act, (APA) which was used to justify Roberts’ opinion, is a clever device created by our Washington Swamp Creatures to undermine our representative system of government, and allow unelected activist judges and Justices to second guess and overturn policy making decisions and legislation which rightfully rests with Congress and our Executive branch of government, that is, unless Congress itself, our elected representatives, decide to intervene and strike down a policy judgement made by the Executive branch.


In this case, the APA was used to overturn the consequences of an election and a policy making decision made by our President which is objected to by those who lost the election.

This is not rocket science to figure out. Just read the entire Court OPINION which documents the whining and frivolous objections of those who ran to the Court over a question which is admitted by all parties does not violate the terms of our Constitution.


Justice Thomas, in his dissent, identifies the can of worms opened by Justice Roberts:


"Now that the Court has opened up this avenue of attack, opponents of executive actions have strong incentives to craft narratives that would derail them. Moreover, even if the effort to invalidate the action is ultimately unsuccessful, the Court’s decision enables partisans to use the courts to harangue executive officers through depositions, discovery, delay, and distraction. The Court’s decision could even implicate separation-of-powers concerns insofar as it enables judicial interference with the enforcement of the laws. In short, today’s decision is a departure from traditional principles of administrative law. Hopefully it comes to be understood as an aberration—a ticket good for this day and this train only"


Because the Secretary’s decision to reinstate a citizenship question on the 2020 census was legally sound and a reasoned exercise of his broad discretion, I respectfully dissent from Part V of the opinion of the Court."



The bottom line is, the Roberts’ decision is an outright attack on our democratic system and attempts to overturn the consequences of our last election.


This whole case is summed up as follows:

"For the removal of unwise laws [and in this case a policy making decision] . . . appeal lies, not to the courts, but to the ballot and to the processes of democratic government.” U.S. v. Butler, 297 U.S. 1, 78-79 (1936)


JWK

"The public welfare demands that constitutional cases must be decided according to the terms of the Constitution itself, and not according to judges’ views of fairness, reasonableness, or justice." – Justice Hugo L. Black (U.S. Supreme Court Justice, 1886 - 1971) Source: Lecture, Columbia University, 1968
 
The citizenship question itself was an attack on congressional representation. You know it, I know it and everyone else knows it. Republicans got the right to unlimited partisan gerrymandering what more do you want?
 
The citizenship question itself was an attack on congressional representation. You know it, I know it and everyone else knows it. Republicans got the right to unlimited partisan gerrymandering what more do you want?
1. The citizenship question is a defense of our citizenship rights and representation, it was an attack on "open borders" and "illegal representation".
2. Democrats also got the right to unlimited partisan gerrymandering, that is a fair ruling by the USSC.
 
The citizenship question itself was an attack on congressional representation. You know it, I know it and everyone else knows it. Republicans got the right to unlimited partisan gerrymandering what more do you want?
1. The citizenship question is a defense of our citizenship rights and representation, it was an attack on "open borders" and "illegal representation".
2. Democrats also got the right to unlimited partisan gerrymandering, that is a fair ruling by the USSC.
1 The administration was defending the Question with arguments so silly Roberts just could not give them credence while studiously avoiding the obvious and publicly known reason for the Question.

2 No it was a disastrous ruling that no democrat is happy to receive. While democratic gerrymandering is not unknown it is they who are leading the effort to make redistricting more fair. It is surely a complex issue but one thing is clear, republicans see nothing wrong with it whatsoever. Under their system politicians get to choose their voters instead of voters choosing them. Isn't that cool?
 
The citizenship question itself was an attack on congressional representation. You know it, I know it and everyone else knows it. Republicans got the right to unlimited partisan gerrymandering what more do you want?


I want our judges and Justices to stick to their assigned duty which is to only determine if a policy making decision or a specific piece of legislation, violates the terms of our Constitution. The court's job is not to second guess the wisdom, merits, reasonableness, or justice of policy making decisions or legislation, and then supplant their personal predilections in place of the decisions of those we elect. To do so is to undermine our representative system of government.

JWK

”Just because we [the courts] do not think the legislators have acted wisely or responsibly does not give us the right to assume their duties or to substitute our judgment for theirs.” ___ Hillis v. Department of Ecology, 131 Wash. 2d 373, 932 P.2d 139 (1997)
 
The citizenship question itself was an attack on congressional representation. You know it, I know it and everyone else knows it. Republicans got the right to unlimited partisan gerrymandering what more do you want?
1. The citizenship question is a defense of our citizenship rights and representation, it was an attack on "open borders" and "illegal representation".
2. Democrats also got the right to unlimited partisan gerrymandering, that is a fair ruling by the USSC.
1 The administration was defending the Question with arguments so silly Roberts just could not give them credence while studiously avoiding the obvious and publicly known reason for the Question.

2 No it was a disastrous ruling that no democrat is happy to receive. While democratic gerrymandering is not unknown it is they who are leading the effort to make redistricting more fair. It is surely a complex issue but one thing is clear, republicans see nothing wrong with it whatsoever. Under their system politicians get to choose their voters instead of voters choosing them. Isn't that cool?

1. AG Barr it is said, has the magic key to adding the citizenship question. Hopefully its as simple as "it was in the census more than it was not" and "President Trump, and all presidents have the Article 2 power to add or remove the question".
 
The citizenship question itself was an attack on congressional representation. You know it, I know it and everyone else knows it. Republicans got the right to unlimited partisan gerrymandering what more do you want?
1. The citizenship question is a defense of our citizenship rights and representation, it was an attack on "open borders" and "illegal representation".
2. Democrats also got the right to unlimited partisan gerrymandering, that is a fair ruling by the USSC.
1 The administration was defending the Question with arguments so silly Roberts just could not give them credence while studiously avoiding the obvious and publicly known reason for the Question.

2 No it was a disastrous ruling that no democrat is happy to receive. While democratic gerrymandering is not unknown it is they who are leading the effort to make redistricting more fair. It is surely a complex issue but one thing is clear, republicans see nothing wrong with it whatsoever. Under their system politicians get to choose their voters instead of voters choosing them. Isn't that cool?

1. AG Barr it is said, has the magic key to adding the citizenship question. Hopefully its as simple as "it was in the census more than it was not" and "President Trump, and all presidents have the Article 2 power to add or remove the question".
It's bullshit. They are bullshitting you.
 
The citizenship question itself was an attack on congressional representation. You know it, I know it and everyone else knows it. Republicans got the right to unlimited partisan gerrymandering what more do you want?
1. The citizenship question is a defense of our citizenship rights and representation, it was an attack on "open borders" and "illegal representation".
2. Democrats also got the right to unlimited partisan gerrymandering, that is a fair ruling by the USSC.
1 The administration was defending the Question with arguments so silly Roberts just could not give them credence while studiously avoiding the obvious and publicly known reason for the Question.

2 No it was a disastrous ruling that no democrat is happy to receive. While democratic gerrymandering is not unknown it is they who are leading the effort to make redistricting more fair. It is surely a complex issue but one thing is clear, republicans see nothing wrong with it whatsoever. Under their system politicians get to choose their voters instead of voters choosing them. Isn't that cool?

1. AG Barr it is said, has the magic key to adding the citizenship question. Hopefully its as simple as "it was in the census more than it was not" and "President Trump, and all presidents have the Article 2 power to add or remove the question".
What is gained by adding that question?
 
The citizenship question itself was an attack on congressional representation. You know it, I know it and everyone else knows it. Republicans got the right to unlimited partisan gerrymandering what more do you want?
1. The citizenship question is a defense of our citizenship rights and representation, it was an attack on "open borders" and "illegal representation".
2. Democrats also got the right to unlimited partisan gerrymandering, that is a fair ruling by the USSC.
1 The administration was defending the Question with arguments so silly Roberts just could not give them credence while studiously avoiding the obvious and publicly known reason for the Question.

2 No it was a disastrous ruling that no democrat is happy to receive. While democratic gerrymandering is not unknown it is they who are leading the effort to make redistricting more fair. It is surely a complex issue but one thing is clear, republicans see nothing wrong with it whatsoever. Under their system politicians get to choose their voters instead of voters choosing them. Isn't that cool?

1. AG Barr it is said, has the magic key to adding the citizenship question. Hopefully its as simple as "it was in the census more than it was not" and "President Trump, and all presidents have the Article 2 power to add or remove the question".
What is gained by adding that question?
Accurate congressional representation is gained by adding the citizenship question. Blue "sanctuary states" with millions of illegals will NOT be rewarded with more congressional districts, and they will NOT be rewarded with more Federal Aid than they are entitled to. Citizens count, illegals and non-citizens do not.
 
The citizenship question itself was an attack on congressional representation. You know it, I know it and everyone else knows it. Republicans got the right to unlimited partisan gerrymandering what more do you want?
1. The citizenship question is a defense of our citizenship rights and representation, it was an attack on "open borders" and "illegal representation".
2. Democrats also got the right to unlimited partisan gerrymandering, that is a fair ruling by the USSC.
1 The administration was defending the Question with arguments so silly Roberts just could not give them credence while studiously avoiding the obvious and publicly known reason for the Question.

2 No it was a disastrous ruling that no democrat is happy to receive. While democratic gerrymandering is not unknown it is they who are leading the effort to make redistricting more fair. It is surely a complex issue but one thing is clear, republicans see nothing wrong with it whatsoever. Under their system politicians get to choose their voters instead of voters choosing them. Isn't that cool?

1. AG Barr it is said, has the magic key to adding the citizenship question. Hopefully its as simple as "it was in the census more than it was not" and "President Trump, and all presidents have the Article 2 power to add or remove the question".
What is gained by adding that question?
Accurate congressional representation. Blue "sanctuary states" with millions of illegals will NOT be rewarded with more congressional districts, and they will NOT be rewarded with more Federal Aid than they are entitled to. Citizens count, illegals and non-citizens do not.
WTF?? So you're saying if we add the citizenship question, illegal aliens won't be counted??

Explain how you figure that......
 
1. The citizenship question is a defense of our citizenship rights and representation, it was an attack on "open borders" and "illegal representation".
2. Democrats also got the right to unlimited partisan gerrymandering, that is a fair ruling by the USSC.
1 The administration was defending the Question with arguments so silly Roberts just could not give them credence while studiously avoiding the obvious and publicly known reason for the Question.

2 No it was a disastrous ruling that no democrat is happy to receive. While democratic gerrymandering is not unknown it is they who are leading the effort to make redistricting more fair. It is surely a complex issue but one thing is clear, republicans see nothing wrong with it whatsoever. Under their system politicians get to choose their voters instead of voters choosing them. Isn't that cool?

1. AG Barr it is said, has the magic key to adding the citizenship question. Hopefully its as simple as "it was in the census more than it was not" and "President Trump, and all presidents have the Article 2 power to add or remove the question".
What is gained by adding that question?
Accurate congressional representation. Blue "sanctuary states" with millions of illegals will NOT be rewarded with more congressional districts, and they will NOT be rewarded with more Federal Aid than they are entitled to. Citizens count, illegals and non-citizens do not.
WTF?? So you're saying if we add the citizenship question, illegal aliens won't be counted??

Explain how you figure that......
Non-citizens need to be counted. But the non-citizens would not count for congressional redistricting, or Federal Aid.
Trump says quiet part out loud, claims census citizenship question is needed to determine districts
 
1 The administration was defending the Question with arguments so silly Roberts just could not give them credence while studiously avoiding the obvious and publicly known reason for the Question.

2 No it was a disastrous ruling that no democrat is happy to receive. While democratic gerrymandering is not unknown it is they who are leading the effort to make redistricting more fair. It is surely a complex issue but one thing is clear, republicans see nothing wrong with it whatsoever. Under their system politicians get to choose their voters instead of voters choosing them. Isn't that cool?

1. AG Barr it is said, has the magic key to adding the citizenship question. Hopefully its as simple as "it was in the census more than it was not" and "President Trump, and all presidents have the Article 2 power to add or remove the question".
What is gained by adding that question?
Accurate congressional representation. Blue "sanctuary states" with millions of illegals will NOT be rewarded with more congressional districts, and they will NOT be rewarded with more Federal Aid than they are entitled to. Citizens count, illegals and non-citizens do not.
WTF?? So you're saying if we add the citizenship question, illegal aliens won't be counted??

Explain how you figure that......
Non-citizens need to be counted. But the non-citizens would not count for congressional redistricting, or Federal Aid.
Trump says quiet part out loud, claims census citizenship question is needed to determine districts
Your article blows up any claims that counting non-citizens will affect Congressional districting.

In the same briefing with reporters, the president also falsely claimed that the citizenship question is necessary to determine accurate representation in Congress (in fact, districts are determined based on total population, not citizenship).

Thanks for settling this issue -- there is no reason to add that question and Roberts was right.
 
The citizenship question itself was an attack on congressional representation. You know it, I know it and everyone else knows it. Republicans got the right to unlimited partisan gerrymandering what more do you want?
1. The citizenship question is a defense of our citizenship rights and representation, it was an attack on "open borders" and "illegal representation".
2. Democrats also got the right to unlimited partisan gerrymandering, that is a fair ruling by the USSC.
1 The administration was defending the Question with arguments so silly Roberts just could not give them credence while studiously avoiding the obvious and publicly known reason for the Question.

2 No it was a disastrous ruling that no democrat is happy to receive. While democratic gerrymandering is not unknown it is they who are leading the effort to make redistricting more fair. It is surely a complex issue but one thing is clear, republicans see nothing wrong with it whatsoever. Under their system politicians get to choose their voters instead of voters choosing them. Isn't that cool?

1. AG Barr it is said, has the magic key to adding the citizenship question. Hopefully its as simple as "it was in the census more than it was not" and "President Trump, and all presidents have the Article 2 power to add or remove the question".

The President and his Administration have the responsibility to conduct the census. Prior to 2010 when the long form was eliminated and the census form was the shortest in American history, the long form census automatically inquires about residency, ethnicity, race, gender, age, disabilities, military service, level of education, occupation, number of bedrooms, bathrooms, kitchen facilities, air conditioning, telephone service, etc. etc. etc. AND citizenship status. In 1950 and earlier, all census forms, short or long, inquired about citizenship status.

There is no question that the citizenship question is legal and proper, and the President should have full authority to include it and shouldn't need anybody's permission to do so.

Yes a lot of illegals will lie if they are cornered and actually participate in the census, but to not at least make an effort to know how many citizens there are is just nuts. The only reason the Democrats could possibly object to that, just as they object to voter ID, is that they want illegals to be able to vote for THEM. There is no other possible explanation.

Copy of the 2000 long form census and yes, the citizenship question is there.
https://www.census.gov/dmd/www/pdf/d02p.pdf
 
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The citizenship question itself was an attack on congressional representation. You know it, I know it and everyone else knows it. Republicans got the right to unlimited partisan gerrymandering what more do you want?
1. The citizenship question is a defense of our citizenship rights and representation, it was an attack on "open borders" and "illegal representation".
2. Democrats also got the right to unlimited partisan gerrymandering, that is a fair ruling by the USSC.
1 The administration was defending the Question with arguments so silly Roberts just could not give them credence while studiously avoiding the obvious and publicly known reason for the Question.

2 No it was a disastrous ruling that no democrat is happy to receive. While democratic gerrymandering is not unknown it is they who are leading the effort to make redistricting more fair. It is surely a complex issue but one thing is clear, republicans see nothing wrong with it whatsoever. Under their system politicians get to choose their voters instead of voters choosing them. Isn't that cool?

1. AG Barr it is said, has the magic key to adding the citizenship question. Hopefully its as simple as "it was in the census more than it was not" and "President Trump, and all presidents have the Article 2 power to add or remove the question".
What is gained by adding that question?
What damage is done by adding that question?
 
The citizenship question itself was an attack on congressional representation. You know it, I know it and everyone else knows it. Republicans got the right to unlimited partisan gerrymandering what more do you want?
1. The citizenship question is a defense of our citizenship rights and representation, it was an attack on "open borders" and "illegal representation".
2. Democrats also got the right to unlimited partisan gerrymandering, that is a fair ruling by the USSC.
1 The administration was defending the Question with arguments so silly Roberts just could not give them credence while studiously avoiding the obvious and publicly known reason for the Question.

2 No it was a disastrous ruling that no democrat is happy to receive. While democratic gerrymandering is not unknown it is they who are leading the effort to make redistricting more fair. It is surely a complex issue but one thing is clear, republicans see nothing wrong with it whatsoever. Under their system politicians get to choose their voters instead of voters choosing them. Isn't that cool?

1. AG Barr it is said, has the magic key to adding the citizenship question. Hopefully its as simple as "it was in the census more than it was not" and "President Trump, and all presidents have the Article 2 power to add or remove the question".

The President and his Administration have the responsibility to conduct the census. Prior to 2010 when the long form was eliminated and the census form was the shortest in American history, the long form census automatically inquires about residency, ethnicity, race, gender, age, disabilities, military service, level of education, occupation, income, number of bedrooms, bathrooms, kitchen facilities, air conditioning, telephone service, etc. etc. etc. AND citizenship status. In 1950 and earlier, all census forms, short or long, inquired about citizenship status.

Yes a lot of illegals will lie if they are cornered and actually participate in the census, but to not at least make an effort to know how many citizens there are is just nuts. The only reason the Democrats could possibly object to that, just as they object to voter ID, is that they want illegals to be able to vote for THEM. There is no other possible explanation.

Copy of the 2000 long form census and yes, the citizenship question is there.
https://www.census.gov/dmd/www/pdf/d02p.pdf
Ding, ding, ding...We have a winner!
 
The citizenship question itself was an attack on congressional representation. You know it, I know it and everyone else knows it. Republicans got the right to unlimited partisan gerrymandering what more do you want?
1. The citizenship question is a defense of our citizenship rights and representation, it was an attack on "open borders" and "illegal representation".
2. Democrats also got the right to unlimited partisan gerrymandering, that is a fair ruling by the USSC.
1 The administration was defending the Question with arguments so silly Roberts just could not give them credence while studiously avoiding the obvious and publicly known reason for the Question.

2 No it was a disastrous ruling that no democrat is happy to receive. While democratic gerrymandering is not unknown it is they who are leading the effort to make redistricting more fair. It is surely a complex issue but one thing is clear, republicans see nothing wrong with it whatsoever. Under their system politicians get to choose their voters instead of voters choosing them. Isn't that cool?

1. AG Barr it is said, has the magic key to adding the citizenship question. Hopefully its as simple as "it was in the census more than it was not" and "President Trump, and all presidents have the Article 2 power to add or remove the question".
What is gained by adding that question?
What damage is done by adding that question?
None, which is why I said I have no problem with adding it. I'm just laughing at all the rightards here who want it added because they were told it will weed out illegal aliens from being counted towards apportioning representation. Yet another example of the herd blindly following marching orders.
 
1. The citizenship question is a defense of our citizenship rights and representation, it was an attack on "open borders" and "illegal representation".
2. Democrats also got the right to unlimited partisan gerrymandering, that is a fair ruling by the USSC.
1 The administration was defending the Question with arguments so silly Roberts just could not give them credence while studiously avoiding the obvious and publicly known reason for the Question.

2 No it was a disastrous ruling that no democrat is happy to receive. While democratic gerrymandering is not unknown it is they who are leading the effort to make redistricting more fair. It is surely a complex issue but one thing is clear, republicans see nothing wrong with it whatsoever. Under their system politicians get to choose their voters instead of voters choosing them. Isn't that cool?

1. AG Barr it is said, has the magic key to adding the citizenship question. Hopefully its as simple as "it was in the census more than it was not" and "President Trump, and all presidents have the Article 2 power to add or remove the question".
What is gained by adding that question?
What damage is done by adding that question?
None, which is why I said I have no problem with adding it. I'm just laughing at all the rightards here who want it added because they were told it will weed out illegal aliens from being counted towards apportioning representation. Yet another example of the herd blindly following marching orders.
I'm just an inquiring mind who would like to get a better idea how many non-citizens are in this country. There should be no harm in nailing that number down a little better than the guesses we have now.
 

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