The Reality of Surgical and Medical Abortions

[MarathonMike]

Expect that “morning after pills” and even most popular contraceptives (that prevent a fertilized zygote from attaching to a woman’s body) will be next to be outlawed. And why not? They are already “human beings,” “babies” and the “unborn” who are being “genocided” … according to religious zealots.

But of course family planning education should — and generally does — emphasize contraception and that abortions (when contraception fails or unwanted pregnancies occur) should be carried out as early as possible. Pretty hard to do when poor women have no help, no sex education, no local Planned Parenthood centers … in whole states.

That is precisely where contraceptive and education services need to be expanded. It makes no sense to me for the extreme right to dig in their heels on "Life begins at conception". There has to be some compromise and more consistency across the states because the unwanted pregnancies will never stop.

 

[Alan Stallion]

You'll see with abortion advocates that they cannot admit that a preborn person is a human being. The introduction of humanity of a pre-born person will bring about the concept of civil rights and the government's proper role in protection of human rights when one or more individuals target victims for murder.

Therefore, you'll see abortion advocates do everything they can to dehumanize the preborn. "It's a parasite! It's just a blob!" That is an understandable tactic. In order to justify depriving another human being of his/her rights, you must dehumanize. That is the lot of recorded human history. You must dehumanize to justify denial of civil rights. That's how you justify slavery. That's how you justify a holocaust, that's how you justify ethnic cleansing, that's how you justify racism. Thats how you pit one subgroup against another subgroup. And it's the ugly underbelly of humanity as it wars against itself for selfish and repulsive personal reasons and justifications. Might does not make right.

Related to the abortion conversation is that abortion advocates do not understand or choose to ignore what a "right" is. Many people often confuse goods with unalienable rights. For example, you do not have the right to housing, you do have a right to seek and pay for that good. You do not have the right to free college, you do have the right to seek and pay for that good. Abortion is not a right, and abortion can never be a right. For the so-called "right to abortion" violates another person's right to life, as is the case with chattel slavery. Violations of civil rights can never be a "right."

And then there's the nonsense of appealing to bigotry by trying to make the issue of restricting abortion a religious usurpation of power. "Theocracy!" they'll shriek. That's surprising to my secular pro-life friends (yes, they do exist, atheists and agnostics). Like me, they don't need to appeal to religion to make their point of how wrong abortion is and how it is a violation of human rights. Yes, many self-described Christians oppose legalized abortion and act accordingly. There are also self-described Christians who support legalized abortion, and they are deluded. Just like there were Christians who rightly opposed chattel slavery and there were so-called Christians who justified chattel slavery.

Instead of appealing to bigotry and tired 50-year-old bumper sticker slogans, does the action abortion violate human civil rights? The answer is yes and must be addressed accordingly as with any other civil rights violation. There can never be compromise on civil rights violations.

 

[JoeB131]

Oh, boy, here it comes again.

You'll see with abortion advocates that they cannot admit that a preborn person is a human being. The introduction of humanity of a pre-born person will bring about the concept of civil rights and the government's proper role in protection of human rights when one or more individuals target victims for murder.

The problem with granting civil rights to fetuses/embryos/zygotes is that once you have done so, you've taken rights away from women.

This isn't just limited to abortion. Let's take in vitro fertilizations. It's been a godsend to women who otherwise have problems conceiving, but once you give full human rights to embryos, such as the 400,000 excess embryos in cold storage that were not needed because the women got the baby they wanted, they are clearly being detained in violation to their rights.

The drugs used in morning after pills have a wide array of other medical uses... now any woman who is prescribed them will have to prove she's not trying to end a pregnancy, but has a valid medical need.

You'd have to treat every miscarriage as a potential homicide investigation. Forget medical privacy. We've already seen how fetal homicide laws have been abused to go after immigrant women of color (Purvi Patel, Bei-Bei Shuai) who have had miscarriages. I mean, shit, with these new laws, they might even go after WHITE WOMEN (GASP!!!)

Therefore, you'll see abortion advocates do everything they can to dehumanize the preborn. "It's a parasite! It's just a blob!" That is an understandable tactic. In order to justify depriving another human being of his/her rights, you must dehumanize. That is the lot of recorded human history. You must dehumanize to justify denial of civil rights. That's how you justify slavery. That's how you justify a holocaust, that's how you justify ethnic cleansing, that's how you justify racism. Thats how you pit one subgroup against another subgroup. And it's the ugly underbelly of humanity as it wars against itself for selfish and repulsive personal reasons and justifications. Might does not make right.

The problem here is that you would have to establish there ever was a time when fetuses HAD civil rights. Prior to the 19th century, abortions were performed by midwives under the concept of "restoring the menses" (Menstration). When medicine became more formalized, there was a stand by male doctors to enact abortion laws, but under those laws, abortion was never treated like murder. Women were never arrested for having them, and providers were only arrested for performing them if they screwed up.

Related to the abortion conversation is that abortion advocates do not understand or choose to ignore what a "right" is. Many people often confuse goods with unalienable rights. For example, you do not have the right to housing, you do have a right to seek and pay for that good. You do not have the right to free college, you do have the right to seek and pay for that good. Abortion is not a right, and abortion can never be a right. For the so-called "right to abortion" violates another person's right to life, as is the case with chattel slavery. Violations of civil rights can never be a "right."

Here's a little shocker for you. There are NO RIGHTS. There are only privileges that society begrudgingly lets you have. Any fool who thinks he has "rights" needs to look up "Japanese-Americans, 1942". Privileges your grandparents never would have accepted, like living together before marriage, are considered the norm now. Conversely, things they took for granted, like smoking indoors in a public place, are now disallowed.

And then there's the nonsense of appealing to bigotry by trying to make the issue of restricting abortion a religious usurpation of power. "Theocracy!" they'll shriek. That's surprising to my secular pro-life friends (yes, they do exist, atheists and agnostics). Like me, they don't need to appeal to religion to make their point of how wrong abortion is and how it is a violation of human rights. Yes, many self-described Christians oppose legalized abortion and act accordingly. There are also self-described Christians who support legalized abortion, and they are deluded. Just like there were Christians who rightly opposed chattel slavery and there were so-called Christians who justified chattel slavery.

Here's the problem. It's one thing to disapprove of a practice, it's another to want to bring down the full fury of law on it because your Imaginary Sky Friend says it's bad. In principle, I'd agree with you... Abortion is a bad form of birth control for women who make bad relationship choices. I don't approve. However, making my disapproval a matter of law is a lot easier said than done, because such laws are largely unenforceable, especially when half the population disagrees.

You can only make a law work if you have general consensus something SHOULD be a law.

Instead of appealing to bigotry and tired 50-year-old bumper sticker slogans, does the action abortion violate human civil rights? The answer is yes and must be addressed accordingly as with any other civil rights violation. There can never be compromise on civil rights violations.

And this is why you'll lose..because your worship of the fetus outweighs any pragmatism. When you start insisting a 12 year old rape victim should have her rapist's baby because you wouldn't want to violate the "human civil rights" of a lump of tissue the size of a kidney bean, that just sounds crazy to most normal people.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

…that just sounds crazy to most normal people.

You do not speak for any normal people, and you have no idea how crazy, how sociopathic, and how outright evil you come across to normal people.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Lunatic religious anti-abortion nuts “have no idea how crazy, how sociopathic, and how outright evil [they] come across to normal people.”

But they can hardly hear any other voices but their own — loudly screaming “YOU ARE ALL BABY KILLERS!” at the rest of us.

They just scream louder and louder, wallowing in their own phony self-righteousness and carrying their bloody images of “partial birth abortions” — while they are trying to force women to carry unwanted pregnancies to term, to outlaw ALL abortions at whatever stage.

Indeed, the worst fanatics want to do everything they can to DELAY and OBSTRUCT abortions, so desperate women can’t get them at the earliest stage possible, when these women want and overwhelmingly choose to have them.

As JoeB131 points out, even frozen fertilized eggs are “human beings” and “little people” in the clouded minds of these crazies. They see no compromise as possible.

 

[JoeB131]

You do not speak for any normal people, and you have no idea how crazy, how sociopathic, and how outright evil you come across to normal people.

Says the guy who thinks he's wearing magic underwear and wants to murder women for having abortions.