The Reality of Surgical and Medical Abortions

[JoeB131]

Census count is irrelevant. If the next census included pre-borns, I doubt that would change your mind one iota. People may not know they are pregnant when they take the census, or conversely, may not be aware of carrying more than one child. Regardless, the benchmark placed is just that, a benchmark. Has no bearing on civil rights.

Actually, here's one I can answer for you. I was a census enumerator in 2000 and 2010. (I passed on 2020 because I didn't need the extra money and Covid). We had very specific rules on counting babies. If a baby was born after April 30, it was counted. If it was born after April 30, it wasn't.

I actually had a woman who I called on with her newborn, and had to very politely tell her that her baby born on May 3rd couldn't be counted in 2010, but we'd be sure to get her on 2020's census.

Tax deduction status is irrelevant. If tax deduction status was changed to include pre-borns, I doubt that would change your mind one iota. Tax deduction status has no bearing on civil rights.

Actually, this is the problem. Once you've given personhood status to fetuses, it doesn't stop with abortion.

We've already seen fetal personhood laws used to persecute women who've had miscarriages. Look up Purvi Patel and Bei Bei Shuai. It's very enlightening... no, wait, I mean horrifying what was done to these women.

Purvi Patel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Bei Bei Shuai - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Please note that these abuses started with immigrant women of color.

Every miscarriage would have to be investigated as a potential homicide.
Women could be prosecuted for assault for smoking or drinking or even eating the wrong foods during pregnancy.

What species are fetuses? What does the DNA evidence say?

My toenail has Human DNA. It doesn't make it a person.

 

[Rigby5]

The whole world would be much better if about half the population had never been born.
Clearly the population is too large, is constantly growing, and eventually will cause human species extinction.

And if you can not remember caring if you died or not while in the womb, then you were not conscious yet.
And the death of something not yet conscious, is irrelevant.

 

[Alan Stallion]

Now, if people on your side were really serious about wanting less abortions, you'd support funding contraception programs through PP. You'd support paid family leave. you'd support universal health care, and you'd support thorough sex education in the schools.

We're the only ones serious about fewer abortions. Abortion providers make bank off of more abortions.

The most effective messaging is abstinence. Works 100% of the time it's tried.

Now regarding contraception, I don't have a problem with non-abortive contraception per se. But I also support healthy sexual lifestyles, and logically you should never have sex with somebody unless you are ready to support the potential of creating a new life. As a result of sexualization of the youth by the likes of Planned Parenthood and their ilk, they think of sex as a right of passage and not think of the consequences of their actions. What passes for sex education in schools is a sick joke. Some people can't even define what is a woman anymore. Pathetic.

As a civil rights advocate, I oppose governmental force. I do not support forcing businesses to provide paid family leave (that should be up to the business if they want to provide for that), and I absolutely do not support universal health care. I support each and every person to seek out their own health care needs without the force of government to limit their choices in health care (and abortion is not health care) or confiscate money from people to provide this service (and it is a service, not a right... understand what is a right and what is not)

 

[mudwhistle]

Proof that Liz Warren and Monika Lewinsky are dumb as shit or not paying attention.......the vote was 5-4.....not 6-3:

 

[mudwhistle]

Actually, here's one I can answer for you. I was a census enumerator in 2000 and 2010. (I passed on 2020 because I didn't need the extra money and Covid). We had very specific rules on counting babies. If a baby was born after April 30, it was counted. If it was born after April 30, it wasn't.

I actually had a woman who I called on with her newborn, and had to very politely tell her that her baby born on May 3rd couldn't be counted in 2010, but we'd be sure to get her on 2020's census.



Actually, this is the problem. Once you've given personhood status to fetuses, it doesn't stop with abortion.

We've already seen fetal personhood laws used to persecute women who've had miscarriages. Look up Purvi Patel and Bei Bei Shuai. It's very enlightening... no, wait, I mean horrifying what was done to these women.

Purvi Patel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Bei Bei Shuai - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Please note that these abuses started with immigrant women of color.

Every miscarriage would have to be investigated as a potential homicide.
Women could be prosecuted for assault for smoking or drinking or even eating the wrong foods during pregnancy.


My toenail has Human DNA. It doesn't make it a person.

"If a baby was born after April 30, it was counted. If it was born after April 30, it wasn't."

What's the f**king difference.

 

[task0778]

Fetuses aren't human beings.

Actually, in some states they are. There is no constitutional text explicitly holding unborn children to be, or not to be, "persons," so the Constitution does not confer upon the federal government a specifically enumerated power to grant or deny "personhood". Therefore, the power to recognize or deny unborn children as the holders of rights and duties as a person has been historically exercised by the states.

For many people, a fetus is living tissue comprising a living organism with it's own DNA. And of course that tissue is human tissue, different from the mother's. The fact that the fetus has not been born yet is hardly a decent reason to arbitrarily end it's life, for no other reason than he or she is an inconvenience for the mother. Who BTW bears the primary responsibility for getting pregnant in the 1st place.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Even yesterday's atrocious ruling didn't grant personhood status to fetuses...

A human being is a human being, no matter how any court rules, no matter what actions any part of any government may try to deny the humanity of any person.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Actually, here's one I can answer for you. I was a census enumerator in 2000 and 2010. (I passed on 2020 because I didn't need the extra money and Covid). We had very specific rules on counting babies. If a baby was born after April 30, it was counted. If it was born after April 30, it wasn't.

I actually had a woman who I called on with her newborn, and had to very politely tell her that her baby born on May 3rd couldn't be counted in 2010, but we'd be sure to get her on 2020's census.

I think this proves the point in my previous post.

Was that May 3rd baby a human being, or not? Born as of the time you declined to count him, and not included in that census. Does the fact that he was not included in the census mean that he was not a human being?

 

[Bob Blaylock]

And if you can not remember caring if you died or not while in the womb, then you were not conscious yet.
And the death of something not yet conscious, is irrelevant.

The very earliest memory that I can recall is from when I was about two or three years old, very faint. Does this mean that I was not conscious before that point, that I existed for about two or three years after I was born, before I became a human being?

 

[JoeB131]

We're the only ones serious about fewer abortions. Abortion providers make bank off of more abortions.

The most effective messaging is abstinence. Works 100% of the time it's tried.

Now regarding contraception, I don't have a problem with non-abortive contraception per se. But I also support healthy sexual lifestyles, and logically you should never have sex with somebody unless you are ready to support the potential of creating a new life. As a result of sexualization of the youth by the likes of Planned Parenthood and their ilk, they think of sex as a right of passage and not think of the consequences of their actions. What passes for sex education in schools is a sick joke. Some people can't even define what is a woman anymore. Pathetic.

You know, the way you clowns carry on, you'd think there was a fucking army of Drag Queens out there ready to swoop down on us.

Okay, let's get real. This isn't some 1950's leave it to beaver shit. This is 2020. teens are going to have sex. Just like most teens in my generation had sex. So the best thing to do is to teach them how to prevent pregnancy and avoid disease. Full freaking stop.

As a civil rights advocate, I oppose governmental force. I do not support forcing businesses to provide paid family leave (that should be up to the business if they want to provide for that), and I absolutely do not support universal health care. I support each and every person to seek out their own health care needs without the force of government to limit their choices in health care (and abortion is not health care) or confiscate money from people to provide this service (and it is a service, not a right... understand what is a right and what is not)

Ever notice that the right wing's idea of "Liberty" is comforting the comfortable and afflicting the afflicted?

In short, you don't give a crap about babies, you just want to force women to have them.

So you aren't pro-life, you are pro-birth.

 

[JoeB131]

I think this proves the point in my previous post.

Was that May 3rd baby a human being, or not? Born as of the time you declined to count him, and not included in that census. Does the fact that he was not included in the census mean that he was not a human being?

It means the government didn't count him as one.

Now, in the interest of fairness, aborting a perfectly healthy fetus in the ninth month of pregnancy WOULD actually be pretty horrifying. I couldn't imagine any woman doing that.

Aborting a fetus in it's second month, (The earliest they'll perform a surgical abortion.. my aforementioned friend had to wait three weeks after she found out she was pregnant to get the procedure done. ) I just don't see that as morally objectionable. I also don't see it as any of your or my business.

 

[Rigby5]

Proof that Liz Warren and Monika Lewinsky are dumb as shit or not paying attention.......the vote was 5-4.....not 6-3:

I think you interpreted the results wrong.
I think it was 6-3.

{...
Alito was joined in his decision by Justices Clarence Thomas, Neil Gorsuch, Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett. Chief Justice John Roberts wrote a separate concurrence,
... }

Supreme Court Overturns Roe v. Wade

The conservative-majority court opened the door to state-level abortion bans that could force people to continue with unsafe and unwanted pregnancies.

www.huffpost.com

 

[JoeB131]

Actually, in some states they are. There is no constitutional text explicitly holding unborn children to be, or not to be, "persons," so the Constitution does not confer upon the federal government a specifically enumerated power to grant or deny "personhood". Therefore, the power to recognize or deny unborn children as the holders of rights and duties as a person has been historically exercised by the states.

And we've already seen how the religious fanatics have manipulated these laws to abuse women and vilify defendants.

In addition to the two women I mentioned who were charged with murder for having miscarriages, I could also point to the case of Scott Peterson.

A review of the case shows that this man got railroaded, in my opinion. The timeline just doesn't work, especially when you hear that neighbors saw her alive when her husband was supposedly disposing of her body. Not one shred of forensic evidence. But the jury was emotionally manipulated by the "dead baby".

For many people, a fetus is living tissue comprising a living organism with it's own DNA. And of course that tissue is human tissue, different from the mother's. The fact that the fetus has not been born yet is hardly a decent reason to arbitrarily end it's life, for no other reason than he or she is an inconvenience for the mother. Who BTW bears the primary responsibility for getting pregnant in the 1st place.

For many people, a fetus is a lump of tissue.

But at the end of the day, the woman that fetus is in is the only person who has a say.

 

[Sunsettommy]

I'm defending a woman's right to choose. Period.

Also fetuses in the 8-12 week range aren't that developed.

This is an 8 week fetus. It's the size of a kidney bean

View attachment 662198

I am glad they dumped the stupid Roe vs wade ruling but I am in support of Legislated Abortion law that are 100% legal up to 16 weeks and banned afterwards except for health of mother and diseased/deformed fetus.

Partial birth should be murder one.

Post one and two are just emotional constructs that doesn't impress me.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Was that May 3rd baby a human being, or not?

It means the government didn't count him as one.

Was he, or was he not, a human being? Does whether the government counted him as such in any way reflect the reality of his humanity?

 

[Alan Stallion]

You know, the way you clowns carry on, you'd think there was a fucking army of Drag Queens out there ready to swoop down on us.

Okay, let's get real. This isn't some 1950's leave it to beaver shit. This is 2020. teens are going to have sex. Just like most teens in my generation had sex. So the best thing to do is to teach them how to prevent pregnancy and avoid disease. Full freaking stop.

I don't care about Leave It To Beaver. That is a tired trope.

The fact is my way works 100% of the time. One-hundred-percent. That is reality. Ignore it at your own peril.

 

[Alan Stallion]

Ever notice that the right wing's idea of "Liberty" is comforting the comfortable and afflicting the afflicted?

In short, you don't give a crap about babies, you just want to force women to have them.

So you aren't pro-life, you are pro-birth.

View attachment 662255

I support and have raised funds for pro-life clinics that provide for early care of newborns, food, formula, clothes, cribs, counselling for the mothers and fathers and so forth. Willingly, without the force of government.

You know, the very clinics the pro-aborts are now vandalizing and firebombing.

So tell me again how wants to help the babies again?

Oh yeah, I've also supported food banks, I've supported battered women ministries, and have clothed and fed homeless people. I rarely talk about that because I typically don't need to toot my own horn about it.

So I want to "force" woman to give birth, like I want to "force" husbands not to murder their wives, like I want to "force" wives not to murder their husbands, like I want to "force" rapists not to rape, like I want to "force" slaveowners to not be allowed to have slaves, like I want to "force" sex-traffickers to release their victims.

My idea of "force" is in reality an adherence to protecting civil rights. Don't confuse the idea of the proper role of government, to protect the civil rights of persons, not violate rights of said persons. That's the difference between the "right wing" and the "left wing."

Also, in addition to your query on reducing abortions, a very effective tool to do that is ultrasounds, which many pro-life clinics do, such as those in my area. When expectant mothers see the ultrasounds, 80% will not abort. Imagine if Planned Parenthood would show the pregnant woman these images, well... naw, that would cut into their profits. They need victims, they need repeat customers, they need advocates, and truth is very inconvenient.

 

[flan327]

Have another cup of KoolAid. Your regurgitation of the platitudes is becoming less and less convincing.

Oh please

IGNORE ME

 

[Alan Stallion]

For many people, a fetus is a lump of tissue.

But at the end of the day, the woman that fetus is in is the only person who has a say.

For many people, Blacks weren't considered human like Whites. A wrong-headed belief is a wrong-headed belief.

And the question still remains... what species is the fetus that is in a woman?

 

[Alan Stallion]

Please note that these abuses started with immigrant women of color.

Every miscarriage would have to be investigated as a potential homicide.
Women could be prosecuted for assault for smoking or drinking or even eating the wrong foods during pregnancy.


My toenail has Human DNA. It doesn't make it a person.

The "color" or immigration status of these women is irrelevant.

Every miscarriage would not have to be investigated. That is a false narrative. If there is ample evidence of a crime, then and only then will action be necessary. And let justice prevail.

Let me know in nine months if your toenail becomes another human being with its own DNA. I'll bring a bottle full of formula.

So again, what species is the pre-born baby (fetus)?