The real "Top Gun" ....Smithsonian

[whitehall]

Smithsonian sponsored a documentary about the real Top Gun program compared with the movie and it was a quality and informative show. They showed modern training and gave the history of the real Fighter Weapons program that started out in a junk trailer somewhere out in the Nevada desert. Smithsonian got a couple of aging Vietnam vintage pilots to reminisce and it was done well except for one thing. The only fighter Ace in the Vietnam war and arguably the founder of the Top Gun program, Randy "Duke" Cunningham was missing like he was erased from history. Congressman Cunningham was convicted of accepting bribes from lobbyists and sentenced to 8 years in federal prison but he was pardoned by President Trump. Is it right to dismiss his contribution to military history and his heroic flying because he was convicted of a crime? It should be noted that Navy pilot John McCain was also implicated in a lobbying scandal (the Keating five) but they gave him a break because of his military history (and the fact that the other four senators were democrats).

 

[Dekster]

IDK. Going to Smithsonian in-person events is about the only thing I miss about living in northern virginia. Tickets weren't often cheap, but I always left feeling like I had gotten my money's worth and then some out of them.

 

[johngaltshrugged]

McCain was a POS RINO that almost sunk his own carrier, the USS Forrestal, when his hot dogging on deck launched a missile that killed 134 crewmen.
What a great American.
Good thing he was an Admiral's son & grandson or he might have got in trouble.
McCain, when a Lieutenant Commander in the U.S. Navy was a Navy pilot (they call themselves aviators). July 29, 1967 while on the deck and in his plane on the carrier U.S.S. Forrestal he managed to screw up procedures (officially denied and covered up by him and the Navy and also even promoted on Wikipedia if you care to look–reason to follow). He did a smart ass punk attention getting trick by doing a “wet start” up of his jet.

McCAIN THE HERO NEARLY SUNK AN AIRCRAFT CARRIER & KILLED 134 SAILORS

Via Lew Rockwell McCain, when a Lieutenant Commander in the U.S. Navy was a Navy pilot (they call themselves aviators). July 29, 1967 while on the deck and in his plane on the carrier U.S.S. Forre…

www.theburningplatform.com

 

[whitehall]

Lincoln Savings and Loan lobbyist Richard Keating allegedly distributed about 1.5 million (probably conservative number) among five U.S. senators including John McCain and former astronaut John Glenn before the bank went under. Glenn and three others were democrats and McCain was the only republican. Nobody was charged and the incident was forgotten. Republican Duke Cunningham was accused of essentially the same thing and democrats threw the book at the popular Vietnam Vet and Ace and made sure it would stick. He served 8 years while most murderers on the left coast barely do that much time.

 

[Mushroom]

McCain was a POS RINO that almost sunk his own carrier, the USS Forrestal, when his hot dogging on deck launched a missile that killed 134 crewmen.
What a great American.
Good thing he was an Admiral's son & grandson or he might have got in trouble.
McCain, when a Lieutenant Commander in the U.S. Navy was a Navy pilot (they call themselves aviators). July 29, 1967 while on the deck and in his plane on the carrier U.S.S. Forrestal he managed to screw up procedures (officially denied and covered up by him and the Navy and also even promoted on Wikipedia if you care to look–reason to follow). He did a smart ass punk attention getting trick by doing a “wet start” up of his jet.

McCAIN THE HERO NEARLY SUNK AN AIRCRAFT CARRIER & KILLED 134 SAILORS

Via Lew Rockwell McCain, when a Lieutenant Commander in the U.S. Navy was a Navy pilot (they call themselves aviators). July 29, 1967 while on the deck and in his plane on the carrier U.S.S. Forre…

www.theburningplatform.com

Really? You are using "theburningplatform.com" as a reference?

That is one of the most garbage "information" sites I have ever seen. It is a swamp of conspiracy theories, and it should absolutely never be taken as a serious source.

Unless you want to poke fun at those who use it as one as a moron.

 

[Mushroom]

Lincoln Savings and Loan lobbyist Richard Keating allegedly distributed about 1.5 million (probably conservative number) among five U.S. senators including John McCain and former astronaut John Glenn before the bank went under. Glenn and three others were democrats and McCain was the only republican. Nobody was charged and the incident was forgotten.

Nobody was charged? John Keating spent years in jail because of that.

Of the senators, they did not violate the law, but they did go through a lengthy ethics probe. Once was reprimanded, two criticized for improper actions, and two were cleared.

 

[whitehall]

Nobody was charged? John Keating spent years in jail because of that.

Of the senators, they did not violate the law, but they did go through a lengthy ethics probe. Once was reprimanded, two criticized for improper actions, and two were cleared.

They put Keating in jail and McCain and the four democrats suffered sob, sob, ethics charges. They could have given Duke Cunningham a break and considered his service and his heroism and let him resign in disgrace. Why the hell did they send him to prison?

 

[Sunni Man]

The only fighter Ace in the Vietnam war and arguably the founder of the Top Gun program, Randy "Duke" Cunningham

Actually, there were two fighter pilot Ace's during the Vietnam war.
Capt, Steve Ritchie was the other one.
Both of them had 5 confirmed MiG kills.

 

[johngaltshrugged]

Really? You are using "theburningplatform.com" as a reference?

That is one of the most garbage "information" sites I have ever seen. It is a swamp of conspiracy theories, and it should absolutely never be taken as a serious source.

Unless you want to poke fun at those who use it as one as a moron.

Yes, because it's impossible the Navy would cover up the mistakes of an admirals son.
Believe all the whitewashed BS you want, it's a free country.
It's not like the crewmen aboard the carrier fingered him for causing the disaster...
WMR has been informed that crewmen aboard the Forrestal have provided additional information about the Forrestal incident. It is believed by many crewmen and those who have investigated the case that McCain deliberately “wet-started” his A-4E to shake up the guy in the plane behind his A-4. “Wet-starts”, done either deliberately or accidentally, shoot a large flame from the tail of the aircraft.

In McCain’s case, the “wet-start” apparently “cooked off” and launched the Zuni rocket from the rear F-4 that touched off the explosions and massive fire. The F-4 pilot was reportedly killed in the conflagration. “Wet starting” was apparently a common practice among young “hot-dog” pilots.

McCain was quickly transferred to the USS Oriskany (the only Forrestal crewman to be immediately transferred).

TMF: John McCain and the Forrestal Incident / Retire Early CampFIRE

According to Capt John K Beling (the commanding officer of the Forrestal), on July 29, 1967 at approximately 1050, “…a thick tongue of flame lashed backward from the parked jet, igniting a [Zuni] missile on one of the dozen or so planes parked near the fantail, their engines turning over in readiness for a strike launching scheduled for 11:00am. ‘The rocket shot across the deck’ Capt Beling said, ‘and by a quirk of fate smashed into a fuel tank under a plane on the port side’.” Beling blamed the fiasco on a “wet-start…from one of the planes near the island”.**

Johnny Wet-Start, We Hardly Knew Ye: Part I: the Forrestal Incident — Monomakhos

www.monomakhos.com

 

[Mushroom]

McCain and the four democrats suffered sob, sob, ethics charges.

That was all they could do. They had not violated any laws, so ethics charges was all they could bring against them.

That is the only recourse Congress has for members that did not violate the law, but were thought to have acted improperly.

In fact, one of the current probes going on now is against Ilhan Omar, for omitting required information on her annual financial disclosure. Once again, there is no law that mandates this be done, no charges that can be brought against her in a court of law if she fakes the hell out of it. She could literally report her entire income is only what Congress pays her and nothing else, and she would not see a day in court if it is a proven lie.

I guess you have absolutely no idea what is legal and not legal, and how Congress operates.

 

[Mushroom]

Capt, Steve Ritchie was the other one.

Who was in the Air Force, so had nothing to do with "Top Gun".

 

[Sunni Man]

Who was in the Air Force, so had nothing to do with "Top Gun".

Your post stated "the only fighter Ace of the Vietnam war".
Own it....

 

[whitehall]

That was all they could do. They had not violated any laws, so ethics charges was all they could bring against them.

That is the only recourse Congress has for members that did not violate the law, but were thought to have acted improperly.

In fact, one of the current probes going on now is against Ilhan Omar, for omitting required information on her annual financial disclosure. Once again, there is no law that mandates this be done, no charges that can be brought against her in a court of law if she fakes the hell out of it. She could literally report her entire income is only what Congress pays her and nothing else, and she would not see a day in court if it is a proven lie.

I guess you have absolutely no idea what is legal and not legal, and how Congress operates.

Your post stated "the only fighter Ace of the Vietnam war".
Own it....

Top Gun was a Navy operation. Maybe the Air Force trained their pilots differently. The point is that Duke Cunningham was a genuine hero who took out the V.C. ace of aces in an epic dog fight. Duke got a raw deal from congress and McCain ran for president.

 

[Mushroom]

Your post stated "the only fighter Ace of the Vietnam war".

"My post"?

*looks up and reads carefully all of the posts I made*

Holy hell, please tell me where I said that! Because I just looked multiple times, and I said nothing even close to that.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Wonder what the number is in Congress now of those that arent dirty....prolly pretty small

 

[Mushroom]

Top Gun was a Navy operation. Maybe the Air Force trained their pilots differently.

They have a program that is almost the same, known as the "Air Force Weapons School". The schools actually work together, and instructors frequently go through the schools of each other.

But they are different, as especially Naval Aviators fly in conditions very unique to them that the Air Force does not operate in. And flies a lot of aircraft that are also unique to them and no other branches of the military uses.

Oh, and before somebody tries to call me on this, all Marine Corps Aviators are "Naval Aviators". While most of the graduates of Top Gun are in the Navy, it is open to all Navy and Marine Corps Aviators. The Navy simply gets most of the slots because there are more Navy fighter pilots than Marine fighter pilots.

 

[Sunni Man]

In my opinion, the best fighter pilot of the Vietnam War hands down was Triple ace Robin Olds.

"Robin Olds (July 14, 1922 – June 14, 2007) was an American fighter pilot and general officer in the United States Air Force. He was a "triple ace", with a combined total of 17 victories in World War II and the Vietnam War. He retired in 1973 as a brigadier general, after 30 years of service."

Robin Olds - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[whitehall]

My point is that Duke Cunningham was an integral part of the Top Gun program and the only Navy ace in the Vietnam war but he made a mistake as a congressman and was erased from history by the Smithsonian. It's not right.

 

[Stryder50]

Top Gun was a Navy operation. Maybe the Air Force trained their pilots differently. The point is that Duke Cunningham was a genuine hero who took out the V.C. ace of aces in an epic dog fight. Duke got a raw deal from congress and McCain ran for president.

Technically that would be the North Vietnamese Air Force "ace of aces". The "V.C.": Viet Cong, being a guerilla organization didn't have an air force.

 

[Stryder50]

No definitive answer here, mostly a coin toss as presented. Still, FWIW:

Who would win a fight between a MiG-29 and a Hornet​

Who would win a fight between a MiG-29 and a Hornet

The MiG-29 Fulcrum and the F/A-18 Hornet have had plenty of opportunities to go head-to-head, but never actually have, to date. How would this dogfight go down?

www.wearethemighty.com