The point of no return

[Cardinal Carminative]

Wow. Jimbob is a terrible cartoonist and whoever wrote this cartoon was a moron.

Why can't morons ever work with good cartoonists?

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

If a person believes in man-made climate change, they should personally do everything possible help stop it.
1 don't use cars, buses, trains or planes

What about full EV cars? I refuel on my solar PV so there's no carbon in that cycle.

2 don't use electricity

What about those of us who use solar PV?

4 ration your water usage

Most of us do. Or we xeriscape our yard etc.

When I see the Climate Change Cultists doing these things, I might take them seriously.

So you expect perfection and that's the ONLY way you trust people? You will be sorely disappointed when you look closely at the people you DO take seriously. Trust me, they're hypocrites too.

But notice that the Climate Change Cultists are very enthusiastic for other people to make sacrifices for Climate Change, but they will not make those sacrifices themselves.

I sacrifice for my beliefs. I can point to about $80K worth of sacrifice just within sight of my garage.

May I ask what YOU do for YOUR BELIEFS?

Climate Change is a bullshit issue that is used to frighten simpleton crackpot fanatics.

...and people with a lot more education that you got.

Just sayin', dipshits like you are a dime dozen. Always talkin' talkin' talkin'. WHy don't you take a science class. Oh, sorry, I understand it wouldn't be possible for you to understand it.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Ya'll go ahead on. I'll stay in Tennessee. Here is our outlook.
View attachment 687967

https://statesummaries.ncics.org/chapter/tn/

Going to make a small but important point. For folks like you who have no idea how climate science works let me explain some key point to you:

taking ONE LOCATION and looking at the temperature trends or, in this case, just instances of extremes, isn't really going to tell you jack shit about climate change.

It's like making a graph of observations and experiments. Not all data comes out perfect. Sometimes it's random noise, sometimes it's flawed measurements, etc.

DATA IS ALWAYS NOISY. When you see data that ISN'T noisy that's how you know it is not real.

So when you find a single location that showed a lot of hot days in the 1930's, that's called NOISE IN THE DATA. Yes there may be some reason but it didn't turn out to be an overall trend.


NOW, let's talk real data. In fact between the 1940's to the 1970's there was a general cooling called the "Mid Century Cooling" and it was likely due to human produced sulfate pollution (remember your history class...do you remember what was happening the 1940's? Yeah it caused a lot of nations, especially in the northern hemisphere, to ramp up industrialization and pumping huge amounts of sulfate into the atmosphere. This is "pollution" and was ultimately considered a BAD thing. So we cleaned up the air to some greater or lesser extent and guess what happened? WARMING STARTED UP AGAIN.

Why?

Because we kept pumping warming greenhouse gases like CO2 in the atmosphere but at the same time we were pumping in a lot of gases like sulfates that cause COOLING as they stop sunlight from making it to the surface. See? It's a complex system with a lot of interactions.

If you don't believe me about the whole Mid Century Cooling I suggest you read Wild, M., Ohmura, A., & Makowski, K. (2007). Impact of global dimming and brightening on global warming. Geophysical Research Letters, 34(4).

 

[Flash]

I am. Some of us actually LIVE OUR VALUES. I know it's hard for some folks who just like to talk big.

Some of us took the money we had and installed solar on our house. I haven't paid an electricity bill in years. And I drive a full EV car which I charge on my solar so I don't even pay for gasoline!

It's a pretty sweet deal.

I don't know about the other poster but some of us actually have made some sacrifices to live greener. We do our best. It's not always perfect, I know I've got a long way to go.

But in the end it won't matter how much discipline any of us have. The decisions the denialists have forced us into (rather than starting to deal with this topic 40 years ago) will come home to roost and we'll have to deal with the more painful fixes.

Thanks! Denialist and non-scientists have made the future just a bit darker because they kept us from doing something earlier.

My part:

I have undergraduate and graduate degrees in Environmental Engineering. I have a Professional Engineer license.

Spent 30 years identifying, permitting and working Environmental restoration projects. Worked on one the largest environmental clean up projects in the world at the nuclear weapons facilities at Oak Ridge and Hanford. Cleaned up a whole hellva lot of real pollution. In retirement taught a few university level classes in Environmental Science to teach young people about pollution.

The real science deniers are the dimwits that believe in this man made global warming scam. The evidence just barely supports the fact that we are in period of natural climate change and there is nothing of substance to say there is any man made component to the change. Just a half ass correlation and some really dumbass shit in and shit out computer modeling. A whole lot of fraudulent and cherry picked data.

Climate change is real. AGW is bullshit.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

My part:

I have undergraduate and graduate degrees in Environmental Engineering. I have a Professional Engineer license.

OK.

The real science deniers are the dimwits that believe in this man made global warming scam.

Interesting. You and I are not dissimilar. I got my doctorate in geology with a focus on organic geochemistry (coal and petroleum). I've spent my career as an R&D chemist. I was greatly fortunate at one point in my career, though, to work at a major oceanographic research facility as a scientist. I got to meet some of the "big names" in climate science and given my degree and background I can read a lot of the science myself.

Ironically I came to the exact opposite conclusion as you do about climate change.

Wonder why that is

The evidence just barely supports the fact that we are in period of natural climate change and there is nothing of substance to say there is any man made component to the change. Just a half ass correlation and some really dumbass shit in and shit out computer modeling. A whole lot of fraudulent and cherry picked data.

If you are a graduate degree scientist you know that "computer modeling" is actually key to most sciences. Especially earth sciences.

When you cleaned up Hanford do you not think there were hydrological modelers working to estimate rate and direction of the flow of contaminants in the groundwater toward the Columbia? Do you not realize how many physics modelers were working across the campus? The history of Hanford is one of modeling. They were one of the first major producers of Pu for the bombs...there were modelers heavily involved. In fact, without models, nothing would have been there except scrub land and gnats.

To characterize climate science as "just a half ass correlation and some really dumbass shit in and shit out computer modeling" is not accurate.

...from the point of view of an actual professional scientist.

Climate change is real. AGW is bullshit.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Climate change is real. AGW is bullshit.

How do you know "climate change is real"? From your knowledge of earth science?

You DO realize that it is in many ways the work of the paleoclimatologists you trust that laid the foundations for our knowledge that AGW is real.

In fact many of the same people who taught you the earth's climate has changed are the same ones telling you the current warming is largely due to human activity.

 

[The Irish Ram]

It is clear you don't know the difference between weather and climate.



You really have a limited understanding of the system. You should take a science class.



Wouldn't it be a cool world if you had even a tiny bit of knowledge in this area? That's the problem. Even folks like you who knows next to nothing of the science (and couldn't understand it if it were explained with cartoons) get a "vote" as well. Your uninformed opinion is good to see so we know how many ignorant folks are out there, but it's your outsized impact on the conversation.

It would really help if you took even just ONE TINY science class!

Understand the swindle just fine.
You're a bore...

 

[Bob Blaylock]

How do you know "climate change is real"?

Because according to the implicit typing rule in FORTRAN, all variables, except those starting with the letters I through M, are REAL, unless explicitly declared otherwise.

 

[ReinyDays]

I got my doctorate in geology with a focus on organic geochemistry (coal and petroleum)

I thought I recognized you ... you're the one who didn't think the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics applied to Earth's atmosphere ... and any geologist would know how to map Navier/Stokes into stress tensor solutions as a matter of habit ... something you're completely clueless about ...

You have an Environmental Certificate from a community college or vocational school ... congratulations ... now you can pump septic tanks ...

You writing a computer simulation using Stefen-Blotzmann greybody equation? ... pray tell us what you're using for the emissivity factor? ... c'mon, doctor, show us your doctoring ...

ETA: What value for albedo and how accurate it this value you're using ... doctor ...

 

[Paracetamol63]

I thought I recognized you ... you're the one who didn't think the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics applied to Earth's atmosphere

Really? Did the poster say THAT??? Sounds like someone didn't take any science classes!

... and any geologist would know how to map Navier/Stokes into stress tensor solutions as a matter of habit ... something you're completely clueless about ...

What is Navier/Stokes?

 

[Paracetamol63]

How do you know "climate change is real"? From your knowledge of earth science?

What does that have to do with the AIR??? Isn't earth science all about ROCKS???

You DO realize that it is in many ways the work of the paleoclimatologists you trust that laid the foundations for our knowledge that AGW is real.

Paleoclimatologist? Did you just make that up? That's hilarious.

 

[ding]

How do you know "climate change is real"? From your knowledge of earth science?

You DO realize that it is in many ways the work of the paleoclimatologists you trust that laid the foundations for our knowledge that AGW is real.

In fact many of the same people who taught you the earth's climate has changed are the same ones telling you the current warming is largely due to human activity.

It's paleo-climatology that says the earth is littered with examples of warming and cooling trends that were not driven by CO2 or orbital forcings.

 

[Paracetamol63]

It's paleo-climatology that says the earth is littered with examples of warming and cooling trends that were not driven by CO2 or orbital forcings.

What is "Paleo-climatology"? Is it a real thing? I thought the other poster just made it up!

 

[ding]

What is "Paleo-climatology"? Is it a real thing? I thought the other poster just made it up!

It's a real thing. Geologic reconstruction of past configurations of the planet and the ensuing climate for that configuration. The basis is the oxygen isotope curve which is a proxy for temperature.

 

[Paracetamol63]

It's a real thing. Geologic reconstruction of past configurations of the planet and the ensuing climate for that configuration. The basis is the oxygen isotope curve which is a proxy for temperature.

View attachment 692435

View attachment 692437

Wow! Cool! This is a really neat graph!!!

I don't really understand how "oxygen" can tell us temperature. How does THAT work????

 

[ding]

Wow! Cool! This is a really neat graph!!!

I don't really understand how "oxygen" can tell us temperature. How does THAT work????

The ratio of oxygen isotope in polar ice cores or ocean cores is linked to water temperature of ancient oceans, which in turn reflects ancient climates. Cycles in the ratio mirror climate changes in geologic history.

Paleoclimatology: The Oxygen Balance

Oxygen is one of the most significant keys to deciphering past climates.

earthobservatory.nasa.gov

 

[ReinyDays]

Wow! Cool! This is a really neat graph!!!

Wait until you see OldRocks' graphs ... all of them look like naked ladies ...

 

[Robert Urbanek]

California heat wave: All-time heat record in Sacramento broken at 116 degrees​

 

[ReinyDays]

California heat wave: All-time heat record in Sacramento broken at 116 degrees​

That's a statistical tie to the 1961 reading of 115ºF ... NOAA standards for thermometers is ±1ºF ...

But point taken ... a single degree over 60 years ... the same as a half hour ago ... I almost peed my pants ...

 

[Paracetamol63]

That's a statistical tie to the 1961 reading of 115ºF ... NOAA standards for thermometers is ±1ºF ...

But point taken ... a single degree over 60 years ... the same as a half hour ago ... I almost peed my pants ...

I hope you don't actually think that's how it all works, right?

When you look at a graph of data you see some points deviate from the line. SOme quite far. This is called "NOISE".

Let's take an example here:

There are point that go WAAAAAAY off the line, but the line still statistically shows evidence for a correlation (p = 0.005, that's significant) but the correlation coefficient is poor because it's scattered.

The whole point of this is: if you take ONE SINGLE DATA POINT you don't really understand the whole graph. In fact in the case of the example if you took some point that was at (55, 2.5) you see it is waaaay high up, but that's just noise.

Noise comes from a few different sources: unknown factor, poor reading or just random chance.