The phony heritage and honor of the south

[guno]

screed still vomited out in the south


A fist person narrative of being brainwashed into that confederate trash history


So why do so many whites in the South and especially South Carolina still cling with all their strength to the memory of the Confederacy? Because the American Civil War has never ended for much of the white South. Bitterness over the Confederate defeat remains. For decades after the war, everyone knew where the bitterness came from: the horrifying losses experienced by the Southern armies, the destructive vengeance by Northern troops and the enfranchisement of freed black slaves.



Lies I learned as a Southerner: Racism, the Confederate flag and why so many white Southerners revere a symbol of hatred

 

[guno]

The belief that it was not about slavery is a studied denial of the truth, a willing suspension-of-disbelief which allows white Southerners to fully embrace the myth of the “Lost Cause” which propagates the lie that the war was fought for Southern independence and not for slavery.

Nothing cemented this myth more than the film “Gone With the Wind.” The opening title card before the movie begins reads: “There was a land of Cavaliers and Cotton Fields called the Old South… Here in this pretty world Gallantry took its last bow. Here was the last ever to be seen of Knights and their Ladies Fair, of Master and Slave… Look for it only in books, for it is no more than a dream remembered. A Civilization gone with the wind…”

This is laughably untrue—a historical lie as wide as the Mississippi River is long. Worse, this belief by so many white Southerners that the Confederacy fought for Southern independence and not to preserve slavery has itself been a disaster for the South. Why? Two reasons. One, by holding white Southerners in its grip, this belief has prevented the whites from accepting blacks as equals and moving past the trauma of the Civil War. Two, by accepting the lie that the Civil War was fought for Southern independence and not to preserve slavery, the only way to preserve the Myth of the Lost Cause was to create a post-bellum society of brutal white supremacy so as to be completely different and hence nominally independent from the North.

The idée fixe that the war was about Southern independence absolves white Southerners from facing the truth of the war and breaking their emotional bond to the former Confederacy. Many conservative white Southerners remain in denial about the brutal reality of African-American slavery in the South. Black slaves were the property of their owners just like master’s house or horse.

 

[OldLady]

screed still vomited out in the south


A fist person narrative of being brainwashed into that confederate trash history


So why do so many whites in the South and especially South Carolina still cling with all their strength to the memory of the Confederacy? Because the American Civil War has never ended for much of the white South. Bitterness over the Confederate defeat remains. For decades after the war, everyone knew where the bitterness came from: the horrifying losses experienced by the Southern armies, the destructive vengeance by Northern troops and the enfranchisement of freed black slaves.



Lies I learned as a Southerner: Racism, the Confederate flag and why so many white Southerners revere a symbol of hatred

LOVE your meme!

 

[emilynghiem]

screed still vomited out in the south


A fist person narrative of being brainwashed into that confederate trash history


So why do so many whites in the South and especially South Carolina still cling with all their strength to the memory of the Confederacy? Because the American Civil War has never ended for much of the white South. Bitterness over the Confederate defeat remains. For decades after the war, everyone knew where the bitterness came from: the horrifying losses experienced by the Southern armies, the destructive vengeance by Northern troops and the enfranchisement of freed black slaves.



Lies I learned as a Southerner: Racism, the Confederate flag and why so many white Southerners revere a symbol of hatred

Hi guno maybe being from Texas I have a different perspective.
The culture I've been around all my life has always emphasized DIY,
be responsible for your own earning and spending if you want a say in how things are done.
You need to own it, or else respect the authority of whoever is in charge.

The issues over the Constitution, and who represents the people,
has long been carried down since its inception.

Half the people I know believe in centralized federal govt representing and protecting
the will of the people.

Half the people I know believe in local self-government and ownership first.

This hasn't changed, but evolved from one issue or crisis to the next.
Whether slavery or gay issues: do we decide policy on the level of individual
people or collective through govt? The liberals want prochoice rights to belong
to individuals when it comes to abortion; when it comes to health care the tables turn
and it's the prolife people who want free market choices while the liberals want govt to mandate laws for all.

You may be talking about the hardcore Klan/Aryan
types still fighting for segregation.

If so, those beliefs haven't changed either for those people.

So if you look at the core cultural beliefs that people have,
that explains the reactions. If some people are resentful,
they were always that way because of their existing beliefs
and are "projecting" that onto government collectively.

Others who believe in states rights have and always lived
by that principle, and will continue to frame "any attempt by
federal govt to overreach" as a breach of that way of life.

 

[irosie91]

The belief that it was not about slavery is a studied denial of the truth, a willing suspension-of-disbelief which allows white Southerners to fully embrace the myth of the “Lost Cause” which propagates the lie that the war was fought for Southern independence and not for slavery.

Nothing cemented this myth more than the film “Gone With the Wind.” The opening title card before the movie begins reads: “There was a land of Cavaliers and Cotton Fields called the Old South… Here in this pretty world Gallantry took its last bow. Here was the last ever to be seen of Knights and their Ladies Fair, of Master and Slave… Look for it only in books, for it is no more than a dream remembered. A Civilization gone with the wind…”

This is laughably untrue—a historical lie as wide as the Mississippi River is long. Worse, this belief by so many white Southerners that the Confederacy fought for Southern independence and not to preserve slavery has itself been a disaster for the South. Why? Two reasons. One, by holding white Southerners in its grip, this belief has prevented the whites from accepting blacks as equals and moving past the trauma of the Civil War. Two, by accepting the lie that the Civil War was fought for Southern independence and not to preserve slavery, the only way to preserve the Myth of the Lost Cause was to create a post-bellum society of brutal white supremacy so as to be completely different and hence nominally independent from the North.

The idée fixe that the war was about Southern independence absolves white Southerners from facing the truth of the war and breaking their emotional bond to the former Confederacy. Many conservative white Southerners remain in denial about the brutal reality of African-American slavery in the South. Black slaves were the property of their owners just like master’s house or horse.

I never considered GONE WITH THE WIND----to be a documentary

 

[Fenton Lum]

state

screed still vomited out in the south


A fist person narrative of being brainwashed into that confederate trash history


So why do so many whites in the South and especially South Carolina still cling with all their strength to the memory of the Confederacy? Because the American Civil War has never ended for much of the white South. Bitterness over the Confederate defeat remains. For decades after the war, everyone knew where the bitterness came from: the horrifying losses experienced by the Southern armies, the destructive vengeance by Northern troops and the enfranchisement of freed black slaves.



Lies I learned as a Southerner: Racism, the Confederate flag and why so many white Southerners revere a symbol of hatred

Hi guno maybe being from Texas I have a different perspective.
The culture I've been around all my life has always emphasized DIY,
be responsible for your own earning and spending if you want a say in how things are done.
You need to own it, or else respect the authority of whoever is in charge.

The issues over the Constitution, and who represents the people,
has long been carried down since its inception.

Half the people I know believe in centralized federal govt representing and protecting
the will of the people.

Half the people I know believe in local self-government and ownership first.

This hasn't changed, but evolved from one issue or crisis to the next.
Whether slavery or gay issues: do we decide policy on the level of individual
people or collective through govt? The liberals want prochoice rights to belong
to individuals when it comes to abortion; when it comes to health care the tables turn
and it's the prolife people who want free market choices while the liberals want govt to mandate laws for all.

You may be talking about the hardcore Klan/Aryan
types still fighting for segregation.

If so, those beliefs haven't changed either for those people.

So if you look at the core cultural beliefs that people have,
that explains the reactions. If some people are resentful,
they were always that way because of their existing beliefs
and are "projecting" that onto government collectively.

Others who believe in states rights have and always lived
by that principle, and will continue to frame "any attempt by
federal govt to overreach" as a breach of that way of life.

You need to own it, or else respect the authority of whoever is in charge.

Others who believe in states rights have and always lived
by that principle, and will continue to frame "any attempt by
federal govt to overreach" as a breach of that way of life.

So which is it then, does a state own the nation?

 

[Asclepias]

screed still vomited out in the south


A fist person narrative of being brainwashed into that confederate trash history


So why do so many whites in the South and especially South Carolina still cling with all their strength to the memory of the Confederacy? Because the American Civil War has never ended for much of the white South. Bitterness over the Confederate defeat remains. For decades after the war, everyone knew where the bitterness came from: the horrifying losses experienced by the Southern armies, the destructive vengeance by Northern troops and the enfranchisement of freed black slaves.



Lies I learned as a Southerner: Racism, the Confederate flag and why so many white Southerners revere a symbol of hatred

I'm currently reading a book called Slavery By Another Name which deals with the souths attempt to legally reenslave Blacks and the part present day corporations played in it.

Slavery by Another Name: The Re-Enslavement of Black Americans from the Civil War to World War II: Douglas A. Blackmon: 9780385722704: Amazon.com: Books

 

[emilynghiem]

state

screed still vomited out in the south


A fist person narrative of being brainwashed into that confederate trash history


So why do so many whites in the South and especially South Carolina still cling with all their strength to the memory of the Confederacy? Because the American Civil War has never ended for much of the white South. Bitterness over the Confederate defeat remains. For decades after the war, everyone knew where the bitterness came from: the horrifying losses experienced by the Southern armies, the destructive vengeance by Northern troops and the enfranchisement of freed black slaves.



Lies I learned as a Southerner: Racism, the Confederate flag and why so many white Southerners revere a symbol of hatred

Hi guno maybe being from Texas I have a different perspective.
The culture I've been around all my life has always emphasized DIY,
be responsible for your own earning and spending if you want a say in how things are done.
You need to own it, or else respect the authority of whoever is in charge.

The issues over the Constitution, and who represents the people,
has long been carried down since its inception.

Half the people I know believe in centralized federal govt representing and protecting
the will of the people.

Half the people I know believe in local self-government and ownership first.

This hasn't changed, but evolved from one issue or crisis to the next.
Whether slavery or gay issues: do we decide policy on the level of individual
people or collective through govt? The liberals want prochoice rights to belong
to individuals when it comes to abortion; when it comes to health care the tables turn
and it's the prolife people who want free market choices while the liberals want govt to mandate laws for all.

You may be talking about the hardcore Klan/Aryan
types still fighting for segregation.

If so, those beliefs haven't changed either for those people.

So if you look at the core cultural beliefs that people have,
that explains the reactions. If some people are resentful,
they were always that way because of their existing beliefs
and are "projecting" that onto government collectively.

Others who believe in states rights have and always lived
by that principle, and will continue to frame "any attempt by
federal govt to overreach" as a breach of that way of life.

You need to own it, or else respect the authority of whoever is in charge.

Others who believe in states rights have and always lived
by that principle, and will continue to frame "any attempt by
federal govt to overreach" as a breach of that way of life.

So which is it then, does a state own the nation?

Dear Fenton Lum
I believe that laws as social contracts depend on consent of the governed,
the people affected and especially taxpayers or whoever is footing the bill.

you are like asking
if the people are the government
do the people own and control whatever the govt controls
and calls public?

Yes and no.

When policy respects and reflects our consent interests and beliefs, then it represents us;
and government and people are one in agreement. Ideally what the people believe should be rlaw,
what the state laws are, and what the federal laws are should be in agreement so there is no conflict;
such as laws against murder, where even church laws and state laws agree on that concept.
That is the ideal.

As for ownership, if states own things, or cities, or if federal govt owns things, then that's where people commonly get into conflict over policies if the managing entities and the public
don't agree, especially if the taxpayers don't. If the taxpayers are responsible for the costs, why don't
we have more direct say. The issue of "no taxation without representation" has always been a key point.

So I'd say no: 1 that the states cannot dictate federal govt to do things
their way at the expense of other states that don't agree (again by "consent of the governed"
being the basis of law)
2 NOR can federal govt dictate to states to do things without
the consent of the people in that state.

On both levels, state and federal,
the policies should reflect the consent of the governed to be just.

It's better to separate ownership if we don't agree on policy
so we don't set ourselves up to fail by putting property
and power in the hands of "collective authority" if we
don't agree how this should affect individual citizens,
especialy if we have different or conflicting beliefs.

 

[emilynghiem]

screed still vomited out in the south


A fist person narrative of being brainwashed into that confederate trash history


So why do so many whites in the South and especially South Carolina still cling with all their strength to the memory of the Confederacy? Because the American Civil War has never ended for much of the white South. Bitterness over the Confederate defeat remains. For decades after the war, everyone knew where the bitterness came from: the horrifying losses experienced by the Southern armies, the destructive vengeance by Northern troops and the enfranchisement of freed black slaves.



Lies I learned as a Southerner: Racism, the Confederate flag and why so many white Southerners revere a symbol of hatred

I'm currently reading a book called Slavery By Another Name which deals with the souths attempt to legally reenslave Blacks and the part present day corporations played in it.

Slavery by Another Name: The Re-Enslavement of Black Americans from the Civil War to World War II: Douglas A. Blackmon: 9780385722704: Amazon.com: Books

Dear Asclepias Another popular title to read on this is
the New Jim Crow
newjimcrow.com | The New Jim Crow

As for sex trafficking: I just heard from an ex-victim and expert counselor on human trafficking with 20 years experience working with prison populations to get them out of drugs, crime and trafficking.
She said that the low numbers of reported cases and statistics is largely because
the trafficking is masked by other crimes: coercing people into drug crimes, robbery, etc.
where they are jailed under related charges so this isn't fully tracked as trafficking for prostitution.
The whole system is abused to keep people enslaved, even by their pimps who send them there, so it amounts to genocide against the poor, not just Blacks and Latinos as minorities but women and transgender/homosexual runaways, anyone who can be easily targeted; perpetuated mutually by "slave masters" of all races, even Asians have become experts in grooming, handling and moving the kidnapped victims and managers around to avoid prosecution.

 

[Fenton Lum]

state

screed still vomited out in the south


A fist person narrative of being brainwashed into that confederate trash history


So why do so many whites in the South and especially South Carolina still cling with all their strength to the memory of the Confederacy? Because the American Civil War has never ended for much of the white South. Bitterness over the Confederate defeat remains. For decades after the war, everyone knew where the bitterness came from: the horrifying losses experienced by the Southern armies, the destructive vengeance by Northern troops and the enfranchisement of freed black slaves.



Lies I learned as a Southerner: Racism, the Confederate flag and why so many white Southerners revere a symbol of hatred

Hi guno maybe being from Texas I have a different perspective.
The culture I've been around all my life has always emphasized DIY,
be responsible for your own earning and spending if you want a say in how things are done.
You need to own it, or else respect the authority of whoever is in charge.

The issues over the Constitution, and who represents the people,
has long been carried down since its inception.

Half the people I know believe in centralized federal govt representing and protecting
the will of the people.

Half the people I know believe in local self-government and ownership first.

This hasn't changed, but evolved from one issue or crisis to the next.
Whether slavery or gay issues: do we decide policy on the level of individual
people or collective through govt? The liberals want prochoice rights to belong
to individuals when it comes to abortion; when it comes to health care the tables turn
and it's the prolife people who want free market choices while the liberals want govt to mandate laws for all.

You may be talking about the hardcore Klan/Aryan
types still fighting for segregation.

If so, those beliefs haven't changed either for those people.

So if you look at the core cultural beliefs that people have,
that explains the reactions. If some people are resentful,
they were always that way because of their existing beliefs
and are "projecting" that onto government collectively.

Others who believe in states rights have and always lived
by that principle, and will continue to frame "any attempt by
federal govt to overreach" as a breach of that way of life.

You need to own it, or else respect the authority of whoever is in charge.

Others who believe in states rights have and always lived
by that principle, and will continue to frame "any attempt by
federal govt to overreach" as a breach of that way of life.

So which is it then, does a state own the nation?

Dear Fenton Lum
I believe that laws as social contracts depend on consent of the governed,
the people affected and especially taxpayers or whoever is footing the bill.

you are like asking
if the people are the government
do the people own and control whatever the govt controls
and calls public?

Yes and no.

When policy respects and reflects our consent interests and beliefs, then it represents us;
and government and people are one in agreement. Ideally what the people believe should be rlaw,
what the state laws are, and what the federal laws are should be in agreement so there is no conflict;
such as laws against murder, where even church laws and state laws agree on that concept.
That is the ideal.

As for ownership, if states own things, or cities, or if federal govt owns things, then that's where people commonly get into conflict over policies if the managing entities and the public
don't agree, especially if the taxpayers don't. If the taxpayers are responsible for the costs, why don't
we have more direct say. The issue of "no taxation without representation" has always been a key point.

So I'd say no: 1 that the states cannot dictate federal govt to do things
their way at the expense of other states that don't agree (again by "consent of the governed"
being the basis of law)
2 NOR can federal govt dictate to states to do things without
the consent of the people in that state.

On both levels, state and federal,
the policies should reflect the consent of the governed to be just.

It's better to separate ownership if we don't agree on policy
so we don't set ourselves up to fail by putting property
and power in the hands of "collective authority" if we
don't agree how this should affect individual citizens,
especialy if we have different or conflicting beliefs.

2 NOR can federal govt dictate to states to do things without
the consent of the people in that state

That would be nice. Turns out there was this time some states would not stop holding human beings in bondage, or lynching and all the rest. Then even after a war to settle that, those states persisted in bondage in another form for another century. Se we can wax phylisophocally

state

screed still vomited out in the south


A fist person narrative of being brainwashed into that confederate trash history


So why do so many whites in the South and especially South Carolina still cling with all their strength to the memory of the Confederacy? Because the American Civil War has never ended for much of the white South. Bitterness over the Confederate defeat remains. For decades after the war, everyone knew where the bitterness came from: the horrifying losses experienced by the Southern armies, the destructive vengeance by Northern troops and the enfranchisement of freed black slaves.



Lies I learned as a Southerner: Racism, the Confederate flag and why so many white Southerners revere a symbol of hatred

Hi guno maybe being from Texas I have a different perspective.
The culture I've been around all my life has always emphasized DIY,
be responsible for your own earning and spending if you want a say in how things are done.
You need to own it, or else respect the authority of whoever is in charge.

The issues over the Constitution, and who represents the people,
has long been carried down since its inception.

Half the people I know believe in centralized federal govt representing and protecting
the will of the people.

Half the people I know believe in local self-government and ownership first.

This hasn't changed, but evolved from one issue or crisis to the next.
Whether slavery or gay issues: do we decide policy on the level of individual
people or collective through govt? The liberals want prochoice rights to belong
to individuals when it comes to abortion; when it comes to health care the tables turn
and it's the prolife people who want free market choices while the liberals want govt to mandate laws for all.

You may be talking about the hardcore Klan/Aryan
types still fighting for segregation.

If so, those beliefs haven't changed either for those people.

So if you look at the core cultural beliefs that people have,
that explains the reactions. If some people are resentful,
they were always that way because of their existing beliefs
and are "projecting" that onto government collectively.

Others who believe in states rights have and always lived
by that principle, and will continue to frame "any attempt by
federal govt to overreach" as a breach of that way of life.

You need to own it, or else respect the authority of whoever is in charge.

Others who believe in states rights have and always lived
by that principle, and will continue to frame "any attempt by
federal govt to overreach" as a breach of that way of life.

So which is it then, does a state own the nation?

Dear Fenton Lum
I believe that laws as social contracts depend on consent of the governed,
the people affected and especially taxpayers or whoever is footing the bill.

you are like asking
if the people are the government
do the people own and control whatever the govt controls
and calls public?

Yes and no.

When policy respects and reflects our consent interests and beliefs, then it represents us;
and government and people are one in agreement. Ideally what the people believe should be rlaw,
what the state laws are, and what the federal laws are should be in agreement so there is no conflict;
such as laws against murder, where even church laws and state laws agree on that concept.
That is the ideal.

As for ownership, if states own things, or cities, or if federal govt owns things, then that's where people commonly get into conflict over policies if the managing entities and the public
don't agree, especially if the taxpayers don't. If the taxpayers are responsible for the costs, why don't
we have more direct say. The issue of "no taxation without representation" has always been a key point.

So I'd say no: 1 that the states cannot dictate federal govt to do things
their way at the expense of other states that don't agree (again by "consent of the governed"
being the basis of law)
2 NOR can federal govt dictate to states to do things without
the consent of the people in that state.

On both levels, state and federal,
the policies should reflect the consent of the governed to be just.

It's better to separate ownership if we don't agree on policy
so we don't set ourselves up to fail by putting property
and power in the hands of "collective authority" if we
don't agree how this should affect individual citizens,
especialy if we have different or conflicting beliefs.

"2 NOR can federal govt dictate to states to do things without
the consent of the people in that state"
That would be nice. Turns out there was this time some states would not stop holding human beings in bondage, or lynching and all the rest. Then even after a war to settle that, those states persisted in bondage in another form for another century. So we can wax philosophically about all of this, or deal with the reality of why the federal govt stepped in. And perhaps that’s all mute other than as mental masturbation given that now America has returned to profiteering from bondage with private prisons, the concept rolled out guess where? The south.

 

[Asclepias]

screed still vomited out in the south


A fist person narrative of being brainwashed into that confederate trash history


So why do so many whites in the South and especially South Carolina still cling with all their strength to the memory of the Confederacy? Because the American Civil War has never ended for much of the white South. Bitterness over the Confederate defeat remains. For decades after the war, everyone knew where the bitterness came from: the horrifying losses experienced by the Southern armies, the destructive vengeance by Northern troops and the enfranchisement of freed black slaves.



Lies I learned as a Southerner: Racism, the Confederate flag and why so many white Southerners revere a symbol of hatred

I'm currently reading a book called Slavery By Another Name which deals with the souths attempt to legally reenslave Blacks and the part present day corporations played in it.

Slavery by Another Name: The Re-Enslavement of Black Americans from the Civil War to World War II: Douglas A. Blackmon: 9780385722704: Amazon.com: Books

Dear Asclepias Another popular title to read on this is
the New Jim Crow
newjimcrow.com | The New Jim Crow

As for sex trafficking: I just heard from an ex-victim and expert counselor on human trafficking with 20 years experience working with prison populations to get them out of drugs, crime and trafficking.
She said that the low numbers of reported cases and statistics is largely because
the trafficking is masked by other crimes: coercing people into drug crimes, robbery, etc.r, so it amounts to genocide against the poor, not just Blacks and Latinos as minorities but women and transgender/homosexual runaways, anyone who can be easily targeted; perpetuated mutually by "slave masters" of all races, even Asians have become experts in grooming, handling and moving the kidnapped victims and managers around to avoid prosecution.

Already read it.

 

[emilynghiem]

"2 NOR can federal govt dictate to states to do things without
the consent of the people in that state"
That would be nice. Turns out there was this time some states would not stop holding human beings in bondage, or lynching and all the rest. Then even after a war to settle that, those states persisted in bondage in another form for another century. So we can wax philosophically about all of this, or deal with the reality of why the federal govt stepped in. And perhaps that’s all mute other than as mental masturbation given that now America has returned to profiteering from bondage with private prisons, the concept rolled out guess where? The south.

Earth to Fenton Lum
The slaves themselves, what about their right to consent of the governed?
Are you leaving out the very people affected by slavery and slave trade laws treating people as property?

Even for people who consent to indentured servitude, it still violates laws if this is conducted in such ways
as to abridge their "freedom of speech, right to petition, security and liberty, and due process" etc.

Even if the govt/laws did NOT recognize slaves as people with human rights, but treated them as property
under laws, then the people with BELIEFS that this was unlawful could not be forced under govt
to endorse and follow such laws that were AGAINST THEIR BELIEFS.

So if the states are abused to violate "consent of the governed" -- either of the slaves directly or
of citizens whose beliefs were imposed upon by the state sanctioning and enforcing practices against
their beliefs -- that is still in violation of the laws. And that is why it eventually got overthrown.

The natural laws are still based on consent of the governed.
And anything people do not consent to will be pushed until they are changed.
That is the democratic process, and it is all based on what people
do or do not consent to, and what we agree to change laws to for correction.

 

[whitehall]

How does "heritage" become phony? Webster describes it as "something possessed as a result of natural situation or birth".Didn't the Confederacy happen and if you want to get technical wasn't the flag that flew off the stern of slave ships for 200 years the Stars and Stripes and the Union Jack? The Confederacy only existed for about four years.