the person and the value of education

[JakeStarkey]

Almost all of the far right and a good portion of the far left are guilty of this fault.

 

[DarkFury]

Jake Starkey giving a talk on values is like Bill Clinton giving a talk on fidelity.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Indeed, though I disagree with the weight you apply to each side. Leftist Millennials are as stupid as feces.

What Millennials don't get about Bernie: Column

 

[OldLady]

A little learning is a dangerous thing....

Don't you think some of that ability/propensity to question is as much about individual personality as the education you received, though?

My teachers started taking my parents aside and saying "She's a real critical thinker" when I was in elementary school. (Interpretation: She asks questions I can't/shouldn't answer). Professors in college indicated the same. My son, who is no mental slouch, is much more comfortable letting others ask the thorny questions. He likes having the rules spelled out for him. He learns them, he follows them, he's all good. A do-er, not a tortured thinker.

I do agree, however, that there needs to be a lot of emphasis these days on determining if information/site is fact or opinion, or just plain made up, since so many folks get their news from the internet.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Listening to DarkFury is like listening to a spec ed debate tournament.

OldLady has the meat of it. Most people, like DarkFury, are relentlessly stupid. They have made up their minds, so don't give them facts.

 

[OldLady]

Listening to DarkFury is like listening to a spec ed debate tournament.

OldLady has the meat of it. Most people, like DarkFury, are relentlessly stupid. They have made up their minds, so don't give them facts.

You and Dark Fury seem to have history, but I find sometimes posters I disagree with actually have reasons for their views, they just don't always want to be bothered to explain themselves.

 

[Correll]

Listening to DarkFury is like listening to a spec ed debate tournament.

OldLady has the meat of it. Most people, like DarkFury, are relentlessly stupid. They have made up their minds, so don't give them facts.

When you are presented with messages, or information you don't like, you decide the messenger is a racist, or far right or both, and then ignore it.

YOu do not question anything you have been taught in the past.

 

[midcan5]

Being married to a teacher since forever and knowing lots of teachers, I am too often amazed at America's view of learning. And having managed people for so many years I look more to motivation, dependent of course on job. I've know HS grads who outperform college folk, and of course all other possible permutations.

But let's get real for a moment, most work is drudgery and that is all work whether it is painting houses or researching biomes. But when education is mentioned online the topic goal is not education but mind control. Those who think differently are uneducated those who agree are educated. And America does not appreciate education, sports and celebrity come before learning.

I don't have time now so I'll leave a few links to usmb and other sites for the interested learner. A rarity online. LOL

"Consider how effectively America's future citizens are trained not to judge for themselves about anything. From the first grade to the twelfth, from one coast to the other, instruction in America's classrooms is almost entirely dogmatic. Answers are "right" and answers are "wrong," but mostly answers are short. "At all levels, [teacher-made] tests called almost exclusively for short answers and recall of information," reports Goodlad. In more than 1,000 classrooms visited by his researchers, "only rarely" was there "evidence to suggest instruction likely to go much beyond mere possession of information to a level of understanding its implications." Goodlad goes on to note that "the intellectual terrain is laid out by the teacher. The paths for walking through it are largely predetermined by the teacher." The give-and-take of genuine discussion is conspicuously absent. "Not even 1%" of instructional time, he found, was devoted to discussions that "required some kind of open response involving reasoning or perhaps an opinion from students.... The extraordinary degree of student passivity stands out." Why Johnny Can't Think

'Key & Peele Imagines What It’d Be Like if We Obsessed Over Teachers the Way We Do Athletes'
Key & Peele Imagines What It’d Be Like if We Obsessed Over Teachers the Way We Do Athletes

'The U.S. Is Letting Poor Kids Fall Further and Further Behind in Reading'
The U.S. Is Letting Poor Kids Fall Further and Further Behind in Reading

'William Deresiewicz's 'Excellent Sheep: The Miseducation of the American Elite and the Way to a Meaningful Life'

The Liberal Arts vs. Neoliberalism | Commonweal Magazine

"For years, Finland has led the pack in international test scores, becoming a source of fascination for education policymakers and experts. Now, the country is changing the way it teaches students. Going forward, Finnish schools will be placing less emphasis on individual subjects like math and history, and will instead focus on broader, more interdisciplinary topics. The goal, according to Finnish leaders, is to provide students with the necessary skills for a more technological, global society."

Here are three things you need to know about Finland’s changing education system: Finland's Schools Are Overhauling The Way They Do Things. Here's How

"You Can Now Go to College in Germany for Free, No Matter Where You’re From" By Rebecca Schuman
You Can Now Go to College in Germany for Free, No Matter Where You’re From. Should You?

Conservative history of the united states
PoliticalChic's Review of "Waiting for Superman"

"I hear all this, oh this is class warfare, no! There is nobody in this country who got rich on his own. Nobody. You built a factory out there — good for you. But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn’t have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory… Now look. You built a factory and it turned into something terrific or a great idea — God Bless! Keep a big hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along." Elizabeth Warren

 

[JakeStarkey]

Listening to DarkFury is like listening to a spec ed debate tournament.

OldLady has the meat of it. Most people, like DarkFury, are relentlessly stupid. They have made up their minds, so don't give them facts.

When you are presented with messages, or information you don't like, you decide the messenger is a racist, or far right or both, and then ignore it.

YOu do not question anything you have been taught in the past.

When the person is racist or far right, like you, I point it out.

You do not like that.

And I have answered every question you ask. But I never give "just once more" when you want to quarrel when you are clearly wrong.

You are relentlessly stupid. You can examine any new evidence neutrally that may conflict with your world view.

You are what you are.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Mid, very interesting.

One problem with public education today assumes that all children can learn in lockstep.

Another problem is the nonsense that is children can learn to abstract and critically think at a second grade level.

 

[Correll]

Listening to DarkFury is like listening to a spec ed debate tournament.

OldLady has the meat of it. Most people, like DarkFury, are relentlessly stupid. They have made up their minds, so don't give them facts.

When you are presented with messages, or information you don't like, you decide the messenger is a racist, or far right or both, and then ignore it.

YOu do not question anything you have been taught in the past.

When the person is racist or far right, like you, I point it out.

You do not like that.

And I have answered every question you ask. But I never give "just once more" when you want to quarrel when you are clearly wrong.

You are relentlessly stupid. You can examine any new evidence neutrally that may conflict with your world view.

You are what you are.

That bit where you say you "never give one more" is you refusing to see or hear what you don't want to see and hear.

And you being an asshole of course.

And refusing to hear any questions of what you have been "taught" in the past.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Listening to DarkFury is like listening to a spec ed debate tournament.

OldLady has the meat of it. Most people, like DarkFury, are relentlessly stupid. They have made up their minds, so don't give them facts.

When you are presented with messages, or information you don't like, you decide the messenger is a racist, or far right or both, and then ignore it.

YOu do not question anything you have been taught in the past.

When the person is racist or far right, like you, I point it out.

You do not like that.

And I have answered every question you ask. But I never give "just once more" when you want to quarrel when you are clearly wrong.

You are relentlessly stupid. You can examine any new evidence neutrally that may conflict with your world view.

You are what you are.

That bit where you say you "never give once more" is you refusing to see or hear what you don't want to see and hear. And you being an asshole of course. And refusing to hear any questions of what you have been "taught" in the past.

You are the one who has been "taught" and has become relentlessly stupid because of it.

You don't get "just once more" when you have been clearly answered and all you want to do is act relentlessly stupid and quarrel because you can answer it.

 

[OldLady]

Being married to a teacher since forever and knowing lots of teachers, I am too often amazed at America's view of learning. And having managed people for so many years I look more to motivation, dependent of course on job. I've know HS grads who outperform college folk, and of course all other possible permutations.

But let's get real for a moment, most work is drudgery and that is all work whether it is painting houses or researching biomes. But when education is mentioned online the topic goal is not education but mind control. Those who think differently are uneducated those who agree are educated. And America does not appreciate education, sports and celebrity come before learning.

I don't have time now so I'll leave a few links to usmb and other sites for the interested learner. A rarity online. LOL

"Consider how effectively America's future citizens are trained not to judge for themselves about anything. From the first grade to the twelfth, from one coast to the other, instruction in America's classrooms is almost entirely dogmatic. Answers are "right" and answers are "wrong," but mostly answers are short. "At all levels, [teacher-made] tests called almost exclusively for short answers and recall of information," reports Goodlad. In more than 1,000 classrooms visited by his researchers, "only rarely" was there "evidence to suggest instruction likely to go much beyond mere possession of information to a level of understanding its implications." Goodlad goes on to note that "the intellectual terrain is laid out by the teacher. The paths for walking through it are largely predetermined by the teacher." The give-and-take of genuine discussion is conspicuously absent. "Not even 1%" of instructional time, he found, was devoted to discussions that "required some kind of open response involving reasoning or perhaps an opinion from students.... The extraordinary degree of student passivity stands out." Why Johnny Can't Think

'Key & Peele Imagines What It’d Be Like if We Obsessed Over Teachers the Way We Do Athletes'
Key & Peele Imagines What It’d Be Like if We Obsessed Over Teachers the Way We Do Athletes

'The U.S. Is Letting Poor Kids Fall Further and Further Behind in Reading'
The U.S. Is Letting Poor Kids Fall Further and Further Behind in Reading

'William Deresiewicz's 'Excellent Sheep: The Miseducation of the American Elite and the Way to a Meaningful Life'

The Liberal Arts vs. Neoliberalism | Commonweal Magazine

"For years, Finland has led the pack in international test scores, becoming a source of fascination for education policymakers and experts. Now, the country is changing the way it teaches students. Going forward, Finnish schools will be placing less emphasis on individual subjects like math and history, and will instead focus on broader, more interdisciplinary topics. The goal, according to Finnish leaders, is to provide students with the necessary skills for a more technological, global society."

Here are three things you need to know about Finland’s changing education system: Finland's Schools Are Overhauling The Way They Do Things. Here's How

"You Can Now Go to College in Germany for Free, No Matter Where You’re From" By Rebecca Schuman
You Can Now Go to College in Germany for Free, No Matter Where You’re From. Should You?

Conservative history of the united states
PoliticalChic's Review of "Waiting for Superman"

"I hear all this, oh this is class warfare, no! There is nobody in this country who got rich on his own. Nobody. You built a factory out there — good for you. But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn’t have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory… Now look. You built a factory and it turned into something terrific or a great idea — God Bless! Keep a big hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along." Elizabeth Warren

You do realize that "Why Johnny Can't Think" has been addressed with the Common Core standards, right? I taught once long ago in a high school where the freshman SCREAMED when I reworded the questions on their test from the questions we used during our review. I asked for exactly the same knowledge of the material, just rephrased. They were actually rote memorizing the questions and exact answers provided during review! I taught 'em different, but it was hard on all of us. Common Core standards push analysis, synthesis etc. at the higher grade levels. What is hardest about that is coming up with multiple choice tests that do a good job of demonstrating those higher level thinking skills. That is why most standardized testing becomes an exercise in rote memorization.
Giving education back to the local schools and the teachers is the way to go, imo.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Critical thinking beginning in the 8th grade at basic levels is appropriate.

Any grade lower is going to hurt students.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Why would the state want to teach kids to be challenging and questioning ?

Nightmare !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Correll]

Listening to DarkFury is like listening to a spec ed debate tournament.

OldLady has the meat of it. Most people, like DarkFury, are relentlessly stupid. They have made up their minds, so don't give them facts.

When you are presented with messages, or information you don't like, you decide the messenger is a racist, or far right or both, and then ignore it.

YOu do not question anything you have been taught in the past.

When the person is racist or far right, like you, I point it out.

You do not like that.

And I have answered every question you ask. But I never give "just once more" when you want to quarrel when you are clearly wrong.

You are relentlessly stupid. You can examine any new evidence neutrally that may conflict with your world view.

You are what you are.

That bit where you say you "never give once more" is you refusing to see or hear what you don't want to see and hear. And you being an asshole of course. And refusing to hear any questions of what you have been "taught" in the past.

You are the one who has been "taught" and has become relentlessly stupid because of it.

You don't get "just once more" when you have been clearly answered and all you want to do is act relentlessly stupid and quarrel because you can answer it.

That bit where you decide that the only possible reason anyone could disagree with what YOU'VE been taught, would be because they are racist, and then you strongly state that, and then refuse to defend your self serving claim?

THat's not "clearly answering" anything.

That is you refusing to even not even to question what you have been taught, but refusing to even discuss what you've been taught.

And of course, you being an asshole.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Correll, you are describing yourself and your personal inadequacies.

Read more, think about what you are reading, question your motives.

You fail to understand that honest discussion differs from quarreling after a point has been decided.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

Listening to DarkFury is like listening to a spec ed debate tournament.

OldLady has the meat of it. Most people, like DarkFury, are relentlessly stupid. They have made up their minds, so don't give them facts.

You're right on, except with your claims that more right wingers are uneducated than left wingers. People in general are stupid. Do you ever watch Jesse Watters on Fox? It's embarrassing, he goes to major colleges and finds students who can't correctly name the person pictured on our money, or tell you one single thing that George Washington is famous for, or even tell you who we fought in the Revolutionary War, or what year we declared our independence. And invariably those people support the left. Which no doubt Fox looks for the left wing idiots, I'm not claiming otherwise, I'm just saying that if you are looking for idiots on either side, there are a lot of them out there.

No college , or high school for that matter, in this country should award a degree to anyone who can't correctly identify the first President of the US and tell you what year we declared independence. That's just pathetic.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

Mid, very interesting.

One problem with public education today assumes that all children can learn in lockstep.

Another problem is the nonsense that is children can learn to abstract and critically think at a second grade level.

Yes, those are some of the problems. The BIGGEST problem though is the schools losing the ability to effectively discipline children. I'm 45 years old, im my day we didn't have any kids with ADD, we had kids who wouldn't mind in class and got sent to the principle for a whipping. Usually took care of the problem without zombifying the kid