The Palestinian Tragedy.

expat500

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Jan 16, 2012
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A long read.

Yet rather than try to understand what exactly is going on, and untangle the threads of this knotted conflict, it is once again being presented as a simple clash of good against evil.

Israelis are frequently presented as the new Nazis, supporters of genocide, advocates of apartheid and child-killers. The fact that the typical Israeli might be a regular human being, who is no more flawed than the average person, is effaced in this worldview. And the possibility that Israelis might have good reasons to fear for their lives is also ignored by too many self-proclaimed advocates for Palestine.

But it is no more helpful in our understanding of this conflict to assume contemporary Palestinian grievances are simply motivated by age-old anti-Semitism. Those who take this view see Palestinian resentment towards Israel as at best irrational. This misses the fact that there are genuine and varying reasons why the average Palestinian – as opposed to the political activist – might feel animosity towards Israel. In the West Bank, for example, freedom of movement is often severely curtailed by the Israel Defence Forces (IDF). And in Gaza Israel withdrew its forces in 2005, but Israel continues to control Gaza’s airspace, as well as most of its land borders – although it should be noted that Egypt controls the land border with the adjoining Sinai peninsula.

Concludes with…​

In the late 19th century, leading German Social Democrats astutely referred to anti-Semitism as ‘the socialism of fools’. They argued that, despite its sometimes radical sheen, anti-Semitism was a thoroughly reactionary movement.

In a similar way, those Western radicals and leftists who give succour to the Hamas worldview are guilty of pursuing the anti-imperialism of fools. They might think they are being radical and humanistic, but they are helping to propagate the worldview of a thoroughly reactionary political movement.


 
Ah, let's take this bit of crazy apart.

Israelis are frequently presented as the new Nazis, supporters of genocide, advocates of apartheid and child-killers. The fact that the typical Israeli might be a regular human being, who is no more flawed than the average person, is effaced in this worldview. And the possibility that Israelis might have good reasons to fear for their lives is also ignored by too many self-proclaimed advocates for Palestine.

Um, okay, here's the problem with that. After WWII, they interviewed the surviving top Nazis who were on trial at Nuremburg. Instead of finding the monsters they expected to find, they found guys who were erudite, intelligent, and seemingly normal. They coined the term "The Banality of Evil" for how regular people could go along with an evil system.

The problem with your average Zionist is that he can't see the forest for the trees. Most of the rest of the world sees Israel for what it is. A colonial settler state where the indigenous people are treated like second-class citizens in their own country.

But it is no more helpful in our understanding of this conflict to assume contemporary Palestinian grievances are simply motivated by age-old anti-Semitism. Those who take this view see Palestinian resentment towards Israel as at best irrational. This misses the fact that there are genuine and varying reasons why the average Palestinian – as opposed to the political activist – might feel animosity towards Israel. In the West Bank, for example, freedom of movement is often severely curtailed by the Israel Defence Forces (IDF). And in Gaza Israel withdrew its forces in 2005, but Israel continues to control Gaza’s airspace, as well as most of its land borders – although it should be noted that Egypt controls the land border with the adjoining Sinai peninsula.

Well, yeah, it's pretty stupid to scream "Anti-Semitism" at the Palestinians, who are a Semitic people themselves.

But let's be honest: why do Palestinians hate Israelis? They stole their land in a series of wars, displacing them from their homes. They force them to live in Gaza and the less desirable portions of the West Bank. They routinely bomb civilian targets in retaliation for terror attacks.

In the late 19th century, leading German Social Democrats astutely referred to anti-Semitism as ‘the socialism of fools’. They argued that, despite its sometimes radical sheen, anti-Semitism was a thoroughly reactionary movement.

In a similar way, those Western radicals and leftists who give succour to the Hamas worldview are guilty of pursuing the anti-imperialism of fools. They might think they are being radical and humanistic, but they are helping to propagate the worldview of a thoroughly reactionary political movement.

YOu might be half right. The problem with anti-imperialist thoughts in the West is that they think the world would be happier if they shared Western values. This is absurd on its face, and after 40 years of America picking up where the Europeans left off, you'd think we'd get the message.
 
Ah, let's take this bit of crazy apart.



Um, okay, here's the problem with that. After WWII, they interviewed the surviving top Nazis who were on trial at Nuremburg. Instead of finding the monsters they expected to find, they found guys who were erudite, intelligent, and seemingly normal. They coined the term "The Banality of Evil" for how regular people could go along with an evil system.

The problem with your average Zionist is that he can't see the forest for the trees. Most of the rest of the world sees Israel for what it is. A colonial settler state where the indigenous people are treated like second-class citizens in their own country.



Well, yeah, it's pretty stupid to scream "Anti-Semitism" at the Palestinians, who are a Semitic people themselves.

But let's be honest: why do Palestinians hate Israelis? They stole their land in a series of wars, displacing them from their homes. They force them to live in Gaza and the less desirable portions of the West Bank. They routinely bomb civilian targets in retaliation for terror attacks.



YOu might be half right. The problem with anti-imperialist thoughts in the West is that they think the world would be happier if they shared Western values. This is absurd on its face, and after 40 years of America picking up where the Europeans left off, you'd think we'd get the message.
The muslim arabs were offered a peaceful two-state solution in 1947 which they rejected

All the killing since then is the fault of the arabs
 
The muslim arabs were offered a peaceful two-state solution in 1947 which they rejected

All the killing since then is the fault of the arabs

I steal your house, you going to be happy that I generously let you live in the unheated garage?

Nope, all the killing is the fault of the Jews stealing someone else's land because their fellow Europeans wanted nothing to do with them.
 
I steal your house, you going to be happy that I generously let you live in the unheated garage?

Nope, all the killing is the fault of the Jews stealing someone else's land because their fellow Europeans wanted nothing to do with them.
The Jews bought the land they settled on

There was a chance for peace but the Pals rejected it
 
I steal your house, you going to be happy that I generously let you live in the unheated garage?

Nope, all the killing is the fault of the Jews stealing someone else's land because their fellow Europeans wanted nothing to do with them.
No one's house was stolen and no one's land was stolen. Large tracts of land were owned by wealthy farmers and farmed by tenant farmers; the Jews bought the land and evicted the tenant farmers, paying them enough money to buy small plots of land for themselves.

The same thing happened in the US at about the same time. In the US south and Midwest, corporations bought up large tracts of land from wealthy families which were farmed by tenant farmers. It had nothing to do with race or religion or ethnicity, but with economics: resources always go to their most highly valued use.

 
No one's house was stolen and no one's land was stolen. Large tracts of land were owned by wealthy farmers and farmed by tenant farmers; the Jews bought the land and evicted the tenant farmers, paying them enough money to buy small plots of land for themselves.

The same thing happened in the US at about the same time. In the US south and Midwest, corporations bought up large tracts of land from wealthy families which were farmed by tenant farmers. It had nothing to do with race or religion or ethnicity, but with economics: resources always go to their most highly valued use.

Not even a good comparison, but you guys keep trying.

I think you are demonstrating why kids in my old neighborhood used "Jew" as a verb.
 
Not even a good comparison, but you guys keep trying.

I think you are demonstrating why kids in my old neighborhood used "Jew" as a verb.
The fact that you claim you come from an antisemitic community does not alter the fact that no lands were stolen.
 
Israelis are frequently presented as the new Nazis, supporters of genocide, advocates of apartheid and child-killers. The fact that the typical Israeli might be a regular human being, who is no more flawed than the average person, is effaced in this worldview.
Most polls show that over 90% of Israelis support continued butchering of the people they've voted for decades to corner, trap, and blockade in Gaza.
 
Guy, only a Jew would think, "Yup, we cheated you out of that land fair and square, why are you bombing me!"
Only an ignorant bigot like you would call the sale of land cheating. The point you continue to make is you have no interest what the facts are, you just want to attack Jews.
 
Scamming people out of their land to disenfranchise them in their own country is nothing to be proud of.
Only an ignorant bigot like yourself would call legal land sales scams, and of course, the Palestinians had no country from which to be disenfranchised from.
 
Only an ignorant bigot like yourself would call legal land sales scams, and of course, the Palestinians had no country from which to be disenfranchised from.


The idea that the same Zionist terrorists who massacred, raped and mutilated Palestine's native residents(1) "bought" any land is absurd.

During the Nakba, over 500 Palestinian towns and villages were destroyed and their residents massacred or expelled.

Yes, some tiny percentage of the land was sold but that amount is statistically insignificant.

The vast majority of land acquired by foreign Jews and militant Zionist terrorist gangs was taken by force for a "Greater Israel".


(1) “Deir Yasin Massacre, 09.04.1948”

EXCERPT " One of the worst Zionist massacres committed against Palestinians is the Deir Yasin massacre. Defenceless Palestinian civilians were tortured before being massacres and their bodies mutilated. Women and children were raped, babies were butchered and pregnant women were bayoneted." CONTINUED
 
The idea that the same Zionist terrorists who massacred, raped and mutilated Palestine's native residents(1) "bought" any land is absurd.

During the Nakba, over 500 Palestinian towns and villages were destroyed and their residents massacred or expelled.

Yes, some tiny percentage of the land was sold but that amount is statistically insignificant.

The vast majority of land acquired by foreign Jews and militant Zionist terrorist gangs was taken by force for a "Greater Israel".


(1) “Deir Yasin Massacre, 09.04.1948”

EXCERPT " One of the worst Zionist massacres committed against Palestinians is the Deir Yasin massacre. Defenceless Palestinian civilians were tortured before being massacres and their bodies mutilated. Women and children were raped, babies were butchered and pregnant women were bayoneted." CONTINUED
Ignoring for the moment the other historical accountings of Deir Yassin which cast doubt on the version you present, you might want to go back in time and discuss land sales with Arabs in the region who encouraged it (Hillel Cohen, Army of Shadows, (Berkeley: University of California Press, 2008), p. 15) and non-Arabs who saw it as a positive move (Palestine Royal Commission (1937), pp. 241–42), and those who discouraged it but saw that it was happening on a large scale (King Abdallah, My Memoirs Completed, (London, Longman Group, Ltd., 1978), pp. 88–89).

In terms of percentages, you might want to review the numbers presented here Abraham Granott, The Land System in Palestine, (London: Eyre and Spottiswoode, 1952), p. 278.
 
Yes, the Zionist Entity is fighting an 80 year war because of my imagination. Not because the Palestinians are rightfully teed off.
Again, it's all in your imagination. Israel has been searching for peace for over 100 years, but the Palestinians continue to make war against it for imagined offenses, and you, as you have been demonstrating just hate Jews.
 

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