The Palestinian intifada is over, and the Palestinians have lost.

[nycflasher]

Informative article on recent developments in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, from my local Hartford Courant .
-------
While no one was looking, something historic happened in the Middle East. The Palestinian intifada is over, and the Palestinians have lost.

For Israel, the victory is bitter. The last four years of terrorism have killed almost 1,000 Israelis and maimed thousands of others. But Israel has won strategically. The intent of the intifada was to demoralize Israel, destroy its economy, bring it to its knees and thus force it to withdraw and surrender to Palestinian demands, just as Israel withdrew in defeat from southern Lebanon in May 2000.

That did not happen. Israel's economy was certainly wounded, but it is growing again. Tourism had dwindled to almost nothing at the height of the intifada, but tourists are returning. And the Israelis were never demoralized. They kept living their lives, young people in particular returning to cafes and discos and buses just hours after a horrific bombing. Israelis turned out to be a lot tougher and braver than the Palestinians had imagined.

The end of the intifada does not mean the end of terrorism. There was terrorism before the intifada and there will be terrorism to come. What has happened, however, is an end to systematic, regular, debilitating, unstoppable terror - terror as a reliable weapon. At the height of the intifada, there were nine suicide attacks in Israel killing 85 Israelis in just one month (March 2002). In the last three months, there have been none.

The overall level of violence has been reduced by more than 70 percent. How did Israel do it? By ignoring critics and launching a two-pronged campaign of self-defense.

First, Israel targeted terrorist leaders - attacks hypocritically denounced by Westerners who, at the same time, cheered the hunt for, and demanded the head of, Osama bin Laden. The top echelon of Hamas and other terror groups has been arrested, killed or driven underground. The others are now so afraid of Israeli precision and intelligence - the last Hamas operative to be killed by missile was riding a motorcycle - that they are forced to devote much of their energy to self-protection and concealment.

Second, the fence. Only about a quarter of the separation fence has been built, but its effect is unmistakable. The northern part is already complete, and attacks into northern Israel have dwindled to almost nothing.

This success does not just save innocent lives. It changes the strategic equation of the whole conflict.

Yasser Arafat started the intifada in September 2000, just weeks after he had rejected at Camp David Israel's offer of withdrawal, settlement evacuation, sharing of Jerusalem and establishment of a Palestinian state. Arafat wanted all that, but without having to make peace and recognize a Jewish state. Hence the terror campaign - to force Israel to give it all up unilaterally.

Arafat failed, spectacularly. The violence did not bring Israel to its knees. Instead, it created chaos, lawlessness and economic disaster in the Palestinian areas. The Palestinians know the ruin that Arafat has brought, and they are beginning to protest it. He promised them blood and victory; he delivered on the blood.

More important, they have lost their place at the table. Israel is now defining a new equilibrium that will reign for years. The separation fence is unilaterally drawing the line that separates Israelis and Palestinians. The Palestinians were offered the chance to negotiate that frontier at Camp David and chose war instead.

It is the height of absurdity to launch a terror war against Israel, then demand the right to determine the nature and route of the barrier built to prevent that terror.

These new strategic realities are not just creating a new equilibrium, they are creating the first hope for peace since Arafat officially tore up the Oslo accords four years ago. Once Israel has withdrawn from Gaza and has completed the fence, terror as a strategic option will be effectively dead. The only way for the Palestinians to achieve statehood and dignity, and to determine the contours of their own state, will be to negotiate a final peace based on genuine coexistence with a Jewish state.

It could be a year, five years or a generation until the Palestinians come to that realization. The pity is that so many, Arab and Israeli, will have had to die before then.

Charles Krauthammer is a syndicated writer in Washington.

 

[nycflasher]

Why did Arafat reject the 2000 proposal?
Because he doesn't recognize the state of Israel, period?
What a jackass!

 

[fishy]

Interesting but I don't think Palestinian goals were ever really that lofty, they know they can't 'completly destroy Israels economy and bring her to her knees' I remember Marwan Baurgouti had said at the begining of it, when he was still free, that they intended continue the Intefada for 3 or 5 years and then try to renegotiate, I think their trying to wait out the Sharon govt and then try to get back to final negotiations with a more liberal govt, by then both Pal. and Israeli people might be willing to make the painful concessions needed in order to achive something like the Taba/Geneva type settlement..

Also the main weapon of the Intefada-the suicide bomber: the last one in Israel proper actually originated from the Gaza strip, they hit an industrial park north of the strip, and then there were no more suicieders in Israel, only in the territories, so the militants proved they can penetrate a 'hermetically sealed' Israel, and then quietly suspended the tactic, also hamas has said that the WB wall won't prevent there militants from getting in, it's possible that they will wait for the last brick to be laid of the wall, and then hit again, just to be a pain in the ass, 1 more point-this was the 2nd Intefada, you could say Israel 'won' the first one, only to get a second one when negotiations for a final settlement fail, so there are no clear cut victories for either side in this conflict.

 

[nbdysfu]

Originally posted by fishy
Also the main weapon of the Intefada-the suicide bomber: the last one in Israel proper actually originated from the Gaza strip, they hit an industrial park north of the strip, and then there were no more suicieders in Israel, only in the territories, so the militants proved they can penetrate a 'hermetically sealed' Israel, and then quietly suspended the tactic, also hamas has said that the WB wall won't prevent there militants from getting in, it's possible that they will wait for the last brick to be laid of the wall, and then hit again, just to be a pain in the ass, 1 more point-this was the 2nd Intefada, you could say Israel 'won' the first one, only to get a second one when negotiations for a final settlement fail, so there are no clear cut victories for either side in this conflict. [/B]

Oh that's convenient, they planned on stopping as part of their strategy.

From the article it sounds like the only places where the attacks are stopping are where the security barriers have been sealed. The Palestinian terrorists continue to blow their load where they still can. Looks more like death throws than an organized retreat. Palestine is a shambles because it is run by a terrorist. Terrorists will continue to attack Israel by launching projectiles over the wall, which the Israelis have already stated they will respond to aggressively and preemptively.

 

[Yurt]

Admittedly, I agree with your stance here. A good quote and a good point.

He who lives in a yurt..

 

[Jule]

I'm not sure I disagree with the article, but Israel certainly hasnt helped anything from my point of view, which is as an American. Resolving the Isreali-Palestine conflict would go a long way to discredit and dissipate the terrorist threat that we face, and building a fence in the occupied territories does nothing to solve the conflict. And even though Isreal's stopping the suicide wave is a good thing, it comes at the somewhat ironic cost of turning the occupied lands into a big prison and Israel as the nervous jailer. I'm no fan of the Palestinians--when they danced in the streets after 9/11 I was incensed. Ultimately, though, I think Isreal is wrong not to withdraw from all the territory they conquered through war. They have no real military justification for keeping it, and if a fence is still required to keep out the crazies, it ought to be put on a legitimate border. Unfortunately for the U. S., Israel will act in own self-interest (hard for me to complain about that, or rather, I can complain it just doesnt matter) and I wish the Muslim world could see Israel is not an American puppet (or Isreal would be doing close to what I just proposed.)

 

[Gaebolg]

I wonder if we had a group here, like the American Indians (and I use this purely as an example), that behaved like the Palestinians...what would we do? If we had suicide bombings and the average citizen had to face the reality that they may be killed while shopping, etc.
If we were in the exact same position as Israel, only here, what would we do?

 

[nycflasher]

Originally posted by Gaebolg
I wonder if we had a group here, like the American Indians (and I use this purely as an example), that behaved like the Palestinians...what would we do? If we had suicide bombings and the average citizen had to face the reality that they may be killed while shopping, etc.
If we were in the exact same position as Israel, only here, what would we do?

Give them some land?

 

[Gaebolg]

Give them some land?

If they wanted all their land back that we took?

 

[Zhukov]

Originally posted by Gaebolg
I wonder if we had a group here, like the American Indians (and I use this purely as an example), that behaved like the Palestinians...what would we do? If we had suicide bombings and the average citizen had to face the reality that they may be killed while shopping, etc.
If we were in the exact same position as Israel, only here, what would we do?

We'd wipe them out.

 

[NATO AIR]

i would agree... the palestinians have lost dearly. the israelis are now going through a much needed debate about their future, and the palestinians are stuck in the past. who knows what will happen next?

 

[dilloduck]

We had better come up with some plans quickly. The terrorists will stike here and we will have to deal with it. I like Zs idea.

 

[ajwps]

Originally posted by Jule
I'm not sure I disagree with the article, but Israel certainly hasnt helped anything from my point of view, which is as an American. Resolving the Isreali-Palestine conflict would go a long way to discredit and dissipate the terrorist threat that we face, and building a fence in the occupied territories does nothing to solve the conflict. And even though Isreal's stopping the suicide wave is a good thing, it comes at the somewhat ironic cost of turning the occupied lands into a big prison and Israel as the nervous jailer. I'm no fan of the Palestinians--when they danced in the streets after 9/11 I was incensed. Ultimately, though, I think Isreal is wrong not to withdraw from all the territory they conquered through war. They have no real military justification for keeping it, and if a fence is still required to keep out the crazies, it ought to be put on a legitimate border. Unfortunately for the U. S., Israel will act in own self-interest (hard for me to complain about that, or rather, I can complain it just doesnt matter) and I wish the Muslim world could see Israel is not an American puppet (or Isreal would be doing close to what I just proposed.)

Israel withdrawing from their own land via the Oslo Accords of Clinton was the mistake. The Arabs (not Palestinians) didn't abide by their Oslo Agreement signatures, ergo they have to leave the entire State of Israel before their leaders like Arafat completely destroy their own Arab people by stupidity and greed. Much like Hitler did during WW2.

Israel's mistake is simply not giving all the Arabs (Christian and Muslim alike) forty-eight hours to get their rags and move out of Israel into one of the surrounding giant empty Arab lands. Where they go is their own business but Israel should flatten their towns, villages and tents and asphalt their old self indulgent camps into giant parking lots.

This is the answer and let the world of nations and Arabs scream till they go onto their next killling rampage somewhere else.

Giving into terrorists, blackmailers and Arabs is nothing more than giving them an impetuous to go on with their nefarious way of dealing with mankind.

 

[ajwps]

Originally posted by dilloduck
We had better come up with some plans quickly. The terrorists will stike here and we will have to deal with it. I like Zs idea.

The terrorists are being dealth with but you just don't know it. For some strange reason their ranks have been reduced by two-thirds and are now not able to coordinate any major 9/11s anymore.

Ever wonder why?

 

[ajwps]

Originally posted by nycflasher
Give them some land?

Yes give the American Indians and Mexico all the land west of the Mississippi river. That would make them happy alright and they would not want to wage a war against the pale faces.

But then they would want back all their lands EAST of the Mississippi river. The Indians could give the white man a few shiny beads and $24.00 dollars American.

 

[Jule]

Originally posted by ajwps
Israel withdrawing from their own land via the Oslo Accords of Clinton was the mistake. The Arabs (not Palestinians) didn't abide by their Oslo Agreement signatures, ergo they have to leave the entire State of Israel before their leaders like Arafat completely destroy their own Arab people by stupidity and greed. Much like Hitler did during WW2.

Israel's mistake is simply not giving all the Arabs (Christian and Muslim alike) forty-eight hours to get their rags and move out of Israel into one of the surrounding giant empty Arab lands. Where they go is their own business but Israel should flatten their towns, villages and tents and asphalt their old self indulgent camps into giant parking lots.

This is the answer and let the world of nations and Arabs scream till they go onto their next killling rampage somewhere else.

Giving into terrorists, blackmailers and Arabs is nothing more than giving them an impetuous to go on with their nefarious way of dealing with mankind.

Interesting idea, although to be fair, Isreal should be defined by its legal, pre-1967 boundaries, meaning all the settlers need to pack their stuff and move back into Isreal. Noone would be happy, but it would have a kind of crude justice to it.

 

[NightTrain]

Originally posted by Jule
Interesting idea, although to be fair, Isreal should be defined by its legal, pre-1967 boundaries, meaning all the settlers need to pack their stuff and move back into Isreal. Noone would be happy, but it would have a kind of crude justice to it.

Bullshit.

The Six Day War was purely defensive on Israel's part. They kicked the dogshit out of the Egyptians, Syrians and Jordanians who had publicly stated that they were coming to wipe Israel off the map.

Israel did strike first, but that was after war was a foregone conclusion and they'd been getting shelled by the Syrians from the Golan Heights.

The stunning ass kicking delivered by that tiny, young and grossly outnumbered nation was nothing short of miraculous.

Israel won that land in a war pushed onto it, and it's theirs to keep. The "Palestinians" that people squawk about are nothing more than displaced Egyptians, Syrians and Jordanians. There never was a nation called Palestine. Those displaced people decided they didn't want to move back across the border, so there they are. I'll follow up with a timeline of how it all went down, it's fascinating reading.

 

[NightTrain]

The 1967 Six-Day War
by Mitchell Bard

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Israel consistently expressed a desire to negotiate with its neighbors. In an address to the UN General Assembly on October 10, 1960, Foreign Minister Golda Meir challenged Arab leaders to meet with Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion to negotiate a peace settlement. Nasser answered on October 15, saying that Israel was trying to deceive world opinion, and reiterating that his country would never recognize the Jewish State.(1)

The Arabs were equally adamant in their refusal to negotiate a separate settlement for the refugees. As Nasser told the United Arab Republic National Assembly March 26, 1964:

Israel and the imperialism around us, which confront us, are two separate things. There have been attempts to separate them, in order to break up the problems and present them in an imaginary light as if the problem of Israel is the problem of the refugees, by the solution of which the problem of Palestine will also be solved and no residue of the problem will remain. The danger of Israel lies in the very existence of Israel as it is in the present and in what she represents.(2)

Meanwhile, Syria used the Golan Heights, which tower 3,000 feet above the Galilee, to shell Israeli farms and villages. Syria's attacks grew more frequent in 1965 and 1966, while Nasser's rhetoric became increasingly bellicose: "We shall not enter Palestine with its soil covered in sand," he said on March 8, 1965. "We shall enter it with its soil saturated in blood."(3)



Again, a few months later, Nasser expressed the Arabs' aspiration: "...the full restoration of the rights of the Palestinian people. In other words, we aim at the destruction of the State of Israel. The immediate aim: perfection of Arab military might. The national aim: the eradication of Israel."(4)

Provocation
While Nasser continued to make speeches threatening war, Arab terrorist attacks grew more frequent. In 1965, 35 raids were conducted against Israel. In 1966, the number increased to 41. In just the first four months of 1967, 37 attacks were launched.(5)

Meanwhile, Syria's attacks on Israeli kibbutzim from the Golan Heights provoked a retaliatory strike on April 7, 1967, during which Israeli planes shot down six Syrian MiGs. Shortly thereafter, the Soviet Union-which had been providing military and economic aid to both Syria and Egypt-gave Damascus information alleging a massive Israeli military buildup in preparation for an attack. Despite Israeli denials, Syria decided to invoke its defense treaty with Egypt.

On May 15, Israel's Independence Day, Egyptian troops began moving into the Sinai and massing near the Israeli border. By May 18, Syrian troops were prepared for battle along the Golan Heights.

Nasser ordered the UN Emergency Force, stationed in the Sinai since 1956, to withdraw on May 16. Without bringing the matter to the attention of the General Assembly, as his predecessor had promised, Secretary-General U Thant complied with the demand. After the withdrawal of the UNEF, the Voice of the Arabs proclaimed (May 18, 1967):

As of today, there no longer exists an international emergency force to protect Israel. We shall exercise patience no more. We shall not complain any more to the UN about Israel. The sole method we shall apply against Israel is total war, which will result in the extermination of Zionist existence.(6)

An enthusiastic echo was heard May 20 from Syrian Defense Minister Hafez Assad:

Our forces are now entirely ready not only to repulse the aggression, but to initiate the act of liberation itself, and to explode the Zionist presence in the Arab homeland. The Syrian army, with its finger on the trigger, is united....I, as a military man, believe that the time has come to enter into a battle of annihilation.(7)

The Blockade
On May 22, Egypt closed the Straits of Tiran to all Israeli shipping and all ships bound for Eilat. This blockade cut off Israel's only supply route with Asia and stopped the flow of oil from its main supplier, Iran.

In 1956, the United States gave Israel assurances that it recognized the Jewish State's right of access to the Straits of Tiran. In 1957, at the UN, 17 maritime powers declared that Israel had a right to transit the Strait. Moreover, the blockade violated the Convention on the Territorial Sea and Contiguous Zone, which was adopted by the UN Conference on the Law of the Sea on April 27, 1958.(8)

President Johnson expressed the belief that the blockade was illegal and unsuccessfully tried to organize an international flotilla to test it. After the war, he acknowledged the closure of the Strait of Tiran was the casus belli (June 19, 1967):

If a single act of folly was more responsible for this explosion than any other it was the arbitrary and dangerous announced decision that the Strait of Tiran would be closed. The right of innocent maritime passage must be preserved for all nations.(9)

Escalation
Nasser was fully aware of the pressure he was exerting to force Israel's hand. The day after the blockade was set up, he said defiantly: "The Jews threaten to make war. I reply: Welcome! We are ready for war."(10)

Nasser challenged Israel to fight almost daily. "Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel. The Arab people want to fight," he said on May 27.(11) The following day, he added: "We will not accept any...coexistence with Israel...Today the issue is not the establishment of peace between the Arab states and Israel....The war with Israel is in effect since 1948."(12)

King Hussein of Jordan signed a defense pact with Egypt on May 30. Nasser then announced:

The armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon are poised on the borders of Israel...to face the challenge, while standing behind us are the armies of Iraq, Algeria, Kuwait, Sudan and the whole Arab nation. This act will astound the world. Today they will know that the Arabs are arranged for battle, the critical hour has arrived. We have reached the stage of serious action and not declarations.(13)

President Abdur Rahman Aref of Iraq joined in the war of words: "The existence of Israel is an error which must be rectified. This is our opportunity to wipe out the ignominy which has been with us since 1948. Our goal is clear -- to wipe Israel off the map."(14) On June 4, Iraq joined the military alliance with Egypt, Jordan and Syria.



The Arab rhetoric was matched by the mobilization of Arab forces. Approximately 250,000 troops (nearly half in Sinai), more than 2,000 tanks and 700 aircraft ringed Israel.(15)

By this time, Israeli forces had been on alert for three weeks. The country could not remain fully mobilized indefinitely, nor could it allow its sea lane through the Gulf of Aqaba to be interdicted. Israel had no choice but preemptive action. To do this successfully, Israel needed the element of surprise. Had it waited for an Arab invasion, Israel would have been at a potentially catastrophic disadvantage. On June 5, the order was given to attack Egypt.

The U.S. Position
The United States tried to prevent the war through negotiations, but it was not able to persuade Nasser or the other Arab states to cease their belligerent statements and actions. Still, right before the war, Johnson warned: "Israel will not be alone unless it decides to go alone."(16) Then, when the war began, the State Department announced: "Our position is neutral in thought, word and deed."(17)

Moreover, while the Arabs were falsely accusing the United States of airlifting supplies to Israel, Johnson imposed an arms embargo on the region (France, Israel's other main arms supplier also embargoed arms to Israel).

By contrast, the Soviets were supplying massive amounts of arms to the Arabs. Simultaneously, the armies of Kuwait, Algeria, Saudi Arabia and Iraq were contributing troops and arms to the Egyptian, Syrian and Jordanian fronts.(18)

Jerusalem Is Attacked
Prime Minister Levi Eshkol sent a message to King Hussein saying Israel would not attack Jordan unless he initiated hostilities. When Jordanian radar picked up a cluster of planes flying from Egypt to Israel, and the Egyptians convinced Hussein the planes were theirs, he then ordered the shelling of West Jerusalem. It turned out the planes were Israel's, and were returning from destroying the Egyptian air force on the ground.

After Jordan launched its attack on June 5, approximately 325,000 Palestinians living in the West Bank fled.(19) These were Jordanian citizens who moved from one part of what they considered their country to another, primarily to avoid being caught in the cross fire of a war.



A Palestinian refugee who was an administrator in a UNRWA camp in Jericho said Arab politicians had spread rumors in the camp. "They said all the young people would be killed. People heard on the radio that this is not the end, only the beginning, so they think maybe it will be a long war and they want to be in Jordan."(20)

Some Palestinians who left preferred to live in an Arab state rather than under Israeli military rule. Members of various PLO factions fled to avoid capture by the Israelis. Nils-Göran Gussing, the person appointed by the UN Secretary-General to investigate the situation, found that many Arabs also feared they would no longer be able to receive money from family members working abroad.(21)

Israeli forces ordered a handful of Palestinians to move for "strategic and security reasons." In some cases, they were allowed to return in a few days, in others; Israel offered to help them resettle elsewhere.(22)

The Stunning Victory
After just six days of fighting, Israeli forces broke through the enemy lines and were in a position to march on Cairo, Damascus and Amman. A cease_fire was invoked on June 10.

The victory came at a very high cost. In storming the Golan Heights, Israel suffered 115 dead-roughly the number of Americans killed during Operation Desert Storm. Altogether, Israel lost twice as many men — 777 dead and 2,586 wounded-in proportion to her total population as the U.S. lost in eight years of fighting in Vietnam.(23) Also, despite the incredible success of the air campaign, the Israeli Air Force lost 46 of its 200 fighters.(24)



By the end of the war, Israel had conquered enough territory to more than triple the size of the area it controlled, from 8,000 to 26,000 square miles. The victory enabled Israel to unify Jerusalem. Israeli forces had also captured the Sinai, Golan Heights, Gaza Strip and West Bank.

Israel now ruled more than three-quarters of a million Palestinians — most of whom were hostile to the government. Nevertheless, more than 9,000 Palestinian families were reunited in 1967. Ultimately, more than 60,000 Palestinians were allowed to return.(25)

In November 1967, the United Nations Security Council adopted Resolution 242, which established a formula for Arab-Israeli peace whereby Israel would withdraw from territories occupied in the war in exchange for peace with its neighbors. This resolution has served as the basis for peace negotiations from that time on.

Israel's leaders fully expected to negotiate a peace agreement with their neighbors that would involve some territorial compromise. Therefore, instead of annexing the West Bank, a military administration was created. No occupation is pleasant for the inhabitants, but the Israeli authorities did try to minimize the impact on the population. Don Peretz, a frequent writer on the situation of Arabs in Israel and a sharp critic of the Israeli government, visited the West Bank shortly after the Israeli troops had taken over. He found they were trying to restore normal life and prevent any incidents that might encourage the Arabs to leave their homes.(26)

Except for the requirement that school texts in the territories be purged of anti-Israel and anti-Semitic language, the authorities tried not to interfere with the inhabitants. They did provide economic assistance; for example, Palestinians in the Gaza Strip were moved from camps to new homes. This stimulated protests from Egypt, which had done nothing for the refugees when it controlled the area.

Arabs were given freedom of movement. They were allowed to travel to and from Jordan. In 1972, elections were held in the West Bank. Women and non-landowners, unable to participate under Jordanian rule, were now permitted to vote.

East Jerusalem Arabs were given the option of retaining Jordanian citizenship or acquiring Israeli citizenship. They were recognized as residents of united Jerusalem and given the right to vote and run for the city council. Also, Islamic holy places were put in the care of a Muslim Council. Despite the Temple Mount's significance in Jewish history, Jews were barred from conducting prayers there.

Notes
(1)Encyclopedia Americana Annual 1961, (NY: Americana Corporation, 1961), p. 387.

(2)Yehoshafat Harkabi, Arab Attitudes To Israel, (Jerusalem: Keter Publishing House, 1972), p. 27.

(3)Howard Sachar, A History of Israel: From the Rise of Zionism to Our Time, (NY: Alfred A. Knopf, 1979), p. 616.

(4)Samuel Katz, Battleground-Fact and Fantasy in Palestine, (NY: Bantam Books, 1985), pp. 10-11, 185.

(5)Netanel Lorch, One Long War, (Jerusalem: Keter, 1976), p. 110.

(6) Isi Leibler, The Case For Israel, (Australia: The Globe Press, 1972), p. 60.

(7)Ibid.

(8)United Nations Conference on the Law of the Sea, (Geneva: UN Publications 1958), pp. 132-134.

(9)Yehuda Lukacs, Documents on the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict 1967-1983, (NY: Cambridge University Press, 1984), pp. 17-18; Abba Eban, Abba Eban, (NY: Random House, 1977), p. 358

(10)Eban, p. 330.

(11)Leibler, p. 60.

(12)Leibler, p. 18.

(13)Leibler, p. 60.

(14)Leibler, p. 18.

(15)Chaim Herzog, The Arab-Israeli Wars, (NY: Random House, 1982), p. 149.

(16)Lyndon B. Johnson, The Vantage Point: Perspectives of the Presidency 1963-1969, (NY: Holt, Rinehart and Winston, 1971), p. 293.

(17)AP, (June 5, 1967).

(18)Sachar, p. 629.

(19)Encyclopedia American Annual 1968, p. 366.

(20)George Gruen, "The Refugees of Arab-Israeli Conflict," (NY: American Jewish Committee, March 1969), p. 5.

(21)Gruen, p. 5.

(22)Gruen, p. 4.

(23)Katz, p. 3.

(24)Jerusalem Post, (4/23/99).

(25)Encyclopedia American Annual 1968, p. 366.

(26)Don Peretz, "Israel's New Dilemma," Middle East Journal, (Winter 1968), pp. 45-46..

 

[Jule]

I enjoyed reading the above article about the six day war. I don't question Isreal's need to do what it did. But I dont think Isreal's existence is threatened militarily today as it was in 1967--I think they can afford to relinquish all the territory they captured in that war. By settling a good part of the captured territories, they've made it very difficult for them, politically, to give the land up, not to mention what to do with Jerusaleum. But I think eliminating all settlements, and complete withdrawal from the occupied territories, plus making a good part of Jerusaleum an international city, is what it will take to achieve peace with the Palestinians and the Musilm world. If you look at the example of Egypt and Jordan, you see that arabs are willing to make peace with Isreal, if in less than an enthusiastic way.

I don't want to sound like an apologist for the Palestinians or the rest of the Muslim world, especially since a few like to cut off people's heads in the name of religion, and a good deal more are racist buttheads. But I dont think the Arabs are fundamentally any different than the Isrealis, or anyone else for that matter, in that they are no more inherently evil or irrational than other human beings.

 

[ajwps]

Originally posted by Jule
I enjoyed reading the above article about the six day war. I don't question Isreal's need to do what it did. But I dont think Isreal's existence is threatened militarily today as it was in 1967--I think they can afford to relinquish all the territory they captured in that war. By settling a good part of the captured territories, they've made it very difficult for them, politically, to give the land up, not to mention what to do with Jerusaleum. But I think eliminating all settlements, and complete withdrawal from the occupied territories, plus making a good part of Jerusaleum an international city, is what it will take to achieve peace with the Palestinians and the Musilm world. If you look at the example of Egypt and Jordan, you see that arabs are willing to make peace with Isreal, if in less than an enthusiastic way.

I don't want to sound like an apologist for the Palestinians or the rest of the Muslim world, especially since a few like to cut off people's heads in the name of religion, and a good deal more are racist buttheads. But I dont think the Arabs are fundamentally any different than the Isrealis, or anyone else for that matter, in that they are no more inherently evil or irrational than other human beings.

Jule how often do you come out of the dark closet in which you seem to reside? You don't think Israel is threatened now like it was in 1948 or any of the wars waged against it by it large Arab neighbors.

Yes Egypt and Jordan have now made peace with Israel as they continue to send in bombs, supply the terrorist tunnel diggers with rockets, machine guns and their own citizen terrorists to kill babies in their cribs.

Why would Israel or any country give up their own land when they captured it from those who attempted to take it by force?

The existence of Israel and the Jewish people by the Arabs within and without the land of the Hebrew people don't hide their ultimate goals. They proudly announce it to anyone who is willing to listen to their voices, KILL THE JEWS, DRIVE THE JEWS INTO THE SEA, CLEANSE OUR HOLY ARAB SOIL OF THESE JEWS.

No the Jews are not in danger any longer and the Arabs only want a little piece of land to live on in another's country.

What is your intelligence quotient?