The Palestinian intifada is over, and the Palestinians have lost.

[Jule]

Originally posted by ajwps
Jule how often do you come out of the dark closet in which you seem to reside? You don't think Israel is threatened now like it was in 1948 or any of the wars waged against it by it large Arab neighbors.

Yes Egypt and Jordan have now made peace with Israel as they continue to send in bombs, supply the terrorist tunnel diggers with rockets, machine guns and their own citizen terrorists to kill babies in their cribs.

Why would Israel or any country give up their own land when they captured it from those who attempted to take it by force?

The existence of Israel and the Jewish people by the Arabs within and without the land of the Hebrew people don't hide their ultimate goals. They proudly announce it to anyone who is willing to listen to their voices, KILL THE JEWS, DRIVE THE JEWS INTO THE SEA, CLEANSE OUR HOLY ARAB SOIL OF THESE JEWS.

No the Jews are not in danger any longer and the Arabs only want a little piece of land to live on in another's country.

What is your intelligence quotient?

I enjoy the exchange of views on controversial topics that a discussion forum allows--but I've never understood the need to attack the intelligence of someone with a different point of view. Although, to be fair, questioning my IQ and closet dwelling tendencies is not completely out of bounds, unlike some of the posts I've read on the board.

Anyway, I think alot (though not all) of the "kill the evil Jew" crying by the Arabs is an attempt to get the populace's attention away from muslim world's failure as a modern society. They cannot compete, and people with a vested interest in the status quo, who include both secular and religious leaders and even members of the upper class, dont want the population revolting, which might happen anyway, so they blame Israel and the U.S. for every problem. But the failure of the Arabs doesnt solve one of Isreal's basic problems--there are alot of Arabs, and alot of them so despondent or misled, or both, that they are willing to blow themselves up to kill a few Israelis. Israel cant win the baby war--so Israel needs to be part of the solution for the whole region, and they can start by putting themselves in the right with international law. A smaller Israel is more likely to be able to retain its identity as a Jewish state, even Sharon knows this. The alternative to a smaller, friendlier Israel, is a bigger model, based on arpatheid South Africa or even Nazi Germany, where Israel would be looking for an answer to the "Arab problem" with forced relocation, claiming they are the chosen people with a need for some lebenstraum (sp?).

 

[ajwps]

Originally posted by Jule
I enjoy the exchange of views on controversial topics that a discussion forum allows--but I've never understood the need to attack the intelligence of someone with a different point of view. Although, to be fair, questioning my IQ and closet dwelling tendencies is not completely out of bounds, unlike some of the posts I've read on the board.

Anyway, I think alot (though not all) of the "kill the evil Jew" crying by the Arabs is an attempt to get the populace's attention away from muslim world's failure as a modern society. They cannot compete, and people with a vested interest in the status quo, who include both secular and religious leaders and even members of the upper class, dont want the population revolting, which might happen anyway, so they blame Israel and the U.S. for every problem. But the failure of the Arabs doesnt solve one of Isreal's basic problems--there are alot of Arabs, and alot of them so despondent or misled, or both, that they are willing to blow themselves up to kill a few Israelis. Israel cant win the baby war--so Israel needs to be part of the solution for the whole region, and they can start by putting themselves in the right with international law. A smaller Israel is more likely to be able to retain its identity as a Jewish state, even Sharon knows this. The alternative to a smaller, friendlier Israel, is a bigger model, based on arpatheid South Africa or even Nazi Germany, where Israel would be looking for an answer to the "Arab problem" with forced relocation, claiming they are the chosen people with a need for some lebenstraum (sp?).

Jule your points of view reveal that you haven't the vaguest idea of the reality on the ground. There is no future to a group of people whose biblical imperative is to kill or convert you to Islam. Qur'an Sura 9:5. No amount of belief in civilization or the basic goodness of these people has any validity whatsoever. This concept is not mine but the entire history of these peoples.

Israel would simply commit suicide if they ever tried you ideas of what you think is fair.

Actually Israel can and will win this war just like it has so many times in the past. There is no part or whole solution to those whose only concept is the death of your people.

Sorry about attacking your intelligence but you either are terribly naive or simply a Filistinian in disguse.

 

[Jule]

Originally posted by ajwps
Jule your points of view reveal that you haven't the vaguest idea of the reality on the ground. There is no future to a group of people whose biblical imperative is to kill or convert you to Islam. Qur'an Sura 9:5. No amount of belief in civilization or the basic goodness of these people has any validity whatsoever. This concept is not mine but the entire history of these peoples.

Israel would simply commit suicide if they ever tried you ideas of what you think is fair.

Actually Israel can and will win this war just like it has so many times in the past. There is no part or whole solution to those whose only concept is the death of your people.

Sorry about attacking your intelligence but you either are terribly naive or simply a Filistinian in disguse.

Thanks for backing off on the intelligence attacks. Actually, "terribly naive" is a more effective put down.

I'm not a Palistinian, or I'd be obliged to kill you, at least if what you say about the "biblical imperative" is true. My viewpoint is that of what would be best for the U. S., which may not coincide with what is best for Israel. As far as your argument that "these peoples" are dedicated to killing and conversion, I doubt all of them are that dedicated. Christians have had plenty of religious warfare, "kill the pagans" in their past, that didnt mean that Christianity is like that now. And I believe that Muslims have had tolerant societies, even in the recent past--and that has to come back, or everyone is going to lose. Isreal wont help by becoming more intolerant, although, obviously, when you are in constant fear of being blown up if you take a bus to work, thats not the easist thing to do.

 

[NightTrain]

Excellent points, Jule... we don't see eye to eye on the subject, but I can respect your viewpoint.

I think where you and I differ most is that you think by giving back real estate won in battle will garner goodwill from the surrounding countries and the Palestinians.

I don't think that will accomplish anything except make them look weak. It's appeasement, and to my knowledge it has never worked throughout history.

The Six Day War was another Cold War skirmish fought through proxy. The Soviets were backing Egypt, Syria, Jordan and Lebanon and we were backing Israel. I believe that much of the hate expressed towards Israel and the USA is a legacy of Soviet meddling.

With any luck and a lot of hard work, the ME will calm down and the Muslims there will adopt a tolerant attitude toward their neighbors and the rest of the world.

Before that happens, any appeasement will do nothing except to embolden the lunatics and encourage them to continue to commit appalling acts against humanity in order to gain whatever it is they decide they want next.

One crucial step is that Arafat has to be eliminated from the picture, by natural causes or otherwise. Time and again the Palestinians were offered different deals, their own nation, aid, etc., and he played along til the end and turned it down. Arafat isn't interested in peace, that much is clear. When there was another Palestinian in a position of authority actively working for peace, Arafat had him removed. Read the article I reposted 'The KGB's Man'.. it certainly makes you think.

Originally posted by Jule
If you look at the example of Egypt and Jordan, you see that arabs are willing to make peace with Isreal, if in less than an enthusiastic way.

The reason Israel hasn't been outright attacked lately is because all of the neighboring hostile nations have been soundly beaten by them.

That was years ago, Israel is much better equipped and trained these days. It would be foolish for them to begin more hostilities.

At any rate, Thank You for your well-written and thoughtful responses!

NT

 

[ajwps]

Originally posted by NightTrain

Excellent points, Jule... we don't see eye to eye on the subject, but I can respect your viewpoint.

I think where you and I differ most is that you think by giving back real estate won in battle will garner goodwill from the surrounding countries and the Palestinians.

I don't think that will accomplish anything except make them look weak. It's appeasement, and to my knowledge it has never worked throughout history.

Excellent point. The fact that Israel won their own land back from Jordan and Syria during wars waged against Israel would be conceding that the land was not Israel for about 3,316 years. Islam by its entire history since prophet Muhammad has always attacked those they feel show weakness and respect those who demonstrate strength. Example: Israel leaving Lebanon after winning the south of this country. Israel initially showed strength and determination and the so-called Palestinian Arabs left for Tunisia. When Israel pullled back into Israel itself, the Arabs saw weakness and have attacked them with the now infamous Intifada because of this perception.

The Six Day War was another Cold War skirmish fought through proxy. The Soviets were backing Egypt, Syria, Jordan and Lebanon and we were backing Israel. I believe that much of the hate expressed towards Israel and the USA is a legacy of Soviet meddling.

Actually backing the sides in the six day war is a bit simplistic. Israel had to fight against not on the Arabs attacking them but also Russian advisors and Russian MIG pilots while the US had none of its armed forces in the war fought against 5 Arab armies. In the end both the United States and Russia forced Israel to stop the war as the tides of the battle (not a skirmish) turned against the Arabs and Israel was almost to Damascus and had surrounded the majority of the Egyptian army in the Egyptian deserts.

The animosity of the Arabs and the nations of the world against the USA was not due to Russian meddling or the US sending weapons to Israel to defend itself, but the fact that the US was the main superpower left in the world. Imagine for a minute if Germany was the only superpower in the world. Imagine how you would feel if it was Germany telling the USA that they had better bend to their will and their type of government. Would you have any hate and envy toward Germany? The big misconception is that it is Israel which is the cause of hate and animosity toward the USA.

Take note that a small country the size of Rhode Island is in the news everyday. That this little insignificant group of 5+ milllion Jews has the ability to destroy any nation that comes against it. Why do you think that the entire world except the US hates Israel. Do you really think it is because Israel refuses to give up their lands to a foreign people who send their children into Israel so that they can blow up and kill civilians? No way.....

With any luck and a lot of hard work, the ME will calm down and the Muslims there will adopt a tolerant attitude toward their neighbors and the rest of the world.

With a little luck the Muslims will adopt a tolerant attitutde toward Israel and the rest of the world? With a little luck Nazi Germany, Emperor Hirohito of Japan and Jospeh Stalin would have adopted a more tolerant attitude toward the rest of the world and quit attacking the remainder of the earth. In the 1400 year history of Islam, they have not shown any tolerant attitude towards the rest of the world but have simply been biding their time until they could increase their numbers and their military acquisitions to attack the remainder of the world. History is something that must be remembered and learned from or the world will simply go through another major disaster before the enemies of mankind are defeated.

Before that happens, any appeasement will do nothing except to embolden the lunatics and encourage them to continue to commit appalling acts against humanity in order to gain whatever it is they decide they want next.

You are correct but it is has nothing to do with what they decide they want next. For they have already decided by their interpretation of the Qur'an that they want a world of Islam and all other false infidel gods are to be destroyed. You cannot appease, sign an agreement with or have peace talks with those who are bent on your destruction even at the cost of their lives. For they received salvation not through Jesus Christ but through their becoming Shahids (martyrs) and slaying mankind from ambush. (Qur'an Sura 9:5)

One crucial step is that Arafat has to be eliminated from the picture, by natural causes or otherwise. Time and again the Palestinians were offered different deals, their own nation, aid, etc., and he played along til the end and turned it down. Arafat isn't interested in peace, that much is clear. When there was another Palestinian in a position of authority actively working for peace, Arafat had him removed. Read the article I reposted 'The KGB's Man'.. it certainly makes you think.

Eliminating Arafat from the picture won't change one thing. There are hundreds of Arafats waiting in the wings ready to take his place as chief of their struggle to destroy non-Muslims and to become immensely wealthy by stealing the billions sent to the Arab people for their civilization and their becoming a people instead of the pawns used by the Arab world.

The reason Israel hasn't been outright attacked lately is because all of the neighboring hostile nations have been soundly beaten by them.

The UN wants Isreal to give up its only protection against the Arabs by taking Israel's nuclear capablitities away from them leaving about 5+ million Jews against 300,000,000 + million Arabs arrayed against them. Isn't it strange that in 5 wars waged against Israel, the major well trained and armed Arab armies not only lost their wars but were soundly defeated by so few with so little. Now these same hostile nations are using the new deception using Palestinian Arabs as pawns to win a war against Israel by proxy. Keeping the Arabs in Israel in poverty and telling them they are oppressed instead of living as citizens and even being a part of the government of Israel. Even the US (George W. Bush) uses the old now demented warrior Sharon in a vain effort to weaken the Jewish state and people into a state of grave peril.

That was years ago, Israel is much better equipped and trained these days. It would be foolish for them to begin more hostilities.

Those hostile Arab nations are again being foolish by using another ploy to destroy Israel. The Arabs of Arafat who shoot rockets into people's homes, carry bombs into restaurants or buses full of people going about their daily activites. How would George Bush handle this daily attack against Americans by say the Mexican population wanting to destroy the Gringos? Would he try and give them the American southwest states in order to make a peace with a people bent on the destruction of America? Bush would use the national guard to end such an scenario in about ten seconds. How would the US feel about Mr. Sharon telling Mr. Bush that he had to sit down with these people from south of the border or Israel would take action against America?

At any rate, Thank You for your well-written and thoughtful responses!


A little more of facing reality would be more helpful that well-written and thoughtful responses.

 

[NightTrain]

Actually backing the sides in the six day war is a bit simplistic. Israel had to fight against not on the Arabs attacking them but also Russian advisors and Russian MIG pilots while the US had none of its armed forces in the war fought against 5 Arab armies. In the end both the United States and Russia forced Israel to stop the war as the tides of the battle (not a skirmish) turned against the Arabs and Israel was almost to Damascus and had surrounded the majority of the Egyptian army in the Egyptian deserts.

I'm not aware of any actual Soviet pilots fighting, everything I've read about the affair said it was the Arabs against Israel. Got any sources?

In Korea and even Vietnam our pilots faced Soviet pilots flying incognito in Korean and Vietnamese jets, but this is new to me.

It was a skirmish in the big picture of the Cold War.

Take note that a small country the size of Rhode Island is in the news everyday. That this little insignificant group of 5+ milllion Jews has the ability to destroy any nation that comes against it. Why do you think that the entire world except the US hates Israel. Do you really think it is because Israel refuses to give up their lands to a foreign people who send their children into Israel so that they can blow up and kill civilians? No way.....

I honestly have no idea why so many people hate Israel with such passion. I've met people from there & talked to them online, they were normal, friendly people.

I suspect it's blind, ignorant racism fueled by insane conspiracy theories, such as William Joyce displays constantly.

The hatred the Arabs have for them is religious, driven by fundamentalism. No explaining it or trying to reason with that.

With a little luck the Muslims will adopt a tolerant attitutde toward Israel and the rest of the world? With a little luck Nazi Germany, Emperor Hirohito of Japan and Jospeh Stalin would have adopted a more tolerant attitude toward the rest of the world and quit attacking the remainder of the earth. In the 1400 year history of Islam, they have not shown any tolerant attitude towards the rest of the world but have simply been biding their time until they could increase their numbers and their military acquisitions to attack the remainder of the world. History is something that must be remembered and learned from or the world will simply go through another major disaster before the enemies of mankind are defeated.

My statement stands. You missed the 'a lot of hard work' part, and that's important. I believe that once those regions gain modern governments, the fundamentalism will cease to lure in many muslims with their rabid hatred of others.

If that doesn't work, then eventually we'll have massive worldwide conflict against the muslims, and that will be bloody indeed. I'm hoping for the former solution.

Eliminating Arafat from the picture won't change one thing. There are hundreds of Arafats waiting in the wings ready to take his place as chief of their struggle to destroy non-Muslims and to become immensely wealthy by stealing the billions sent to the Arab people for their civilization and their becoming a people instead of the pawns used by the Arab world.

No, I suspect the majority of Palestinians are weary of war. They're completely outclassed & they know this hellish conflict is futile.

Arafat is the main reason there isn't peace. If his replacement doesn't play ball, then he needs to be replaced.

The UN wants Isreal to give up its only protection against the Arabs by taking Israel's nuclear capablitities away from them leaving about 5+ million Jews against 300,000,000 + million Arabs arrayed against them. Isn't it strange that in 5 wars waged against Israel, the major well trained and armed Arab armies not only lost their wars but were soundly defeated by so few with so little. Now these same hostile nations are using the new deception using Palestinian Arabs as pawns to win a war against Israel by proxy. Keeping the Arabs in Israel in poverty and telling them they are oppressed instead of living as citizens and even being a part of the government of Israel.

Israel doesn't offically have nukes. Therefore, the UN can't officially want the nukes removed. I don't think anyone in their right mind would try and disarm Israel. I don't think Israel would even consider it for a millisecond, and rightfully so. It's a nice insurance policy for them against the local bad guys.

Even the US (George W. Bush) uses the old now demented warrior Sharon in a vain effort to weaken the Jewish state and people into a state of grave peril.

I have no idea what this means.

A little more of facing reality would be more helpful that well-written and thoughtful responses.

I've got a firm grip on reality, thank you. Have a care with insulting me in a conversation I was having with Jule. I'm not in the mood.

 

[Jule]

Originally posted by ajwps
The UN wants Isreal to give up its only protection against the Arabs by taking Israel's nuclear capablitities away from them leaving about 5+ million Jews against 300,000,000 + million Arabs arrayed against them.

I actually agree with you that Israel should not give up its nuclear deterrent, so we dont disagree about everything. Of course, one Muslim nation already has nuclear capability, and Iran will, or at least may, have nukes soon. I wonder if, because of its small size, Isreal may be very vulnerable to a first strike (a strike with the intention more of destroying Israel's nuclear capability than just killing people), thus tempting Israel to go for a preemptive strike itself. This is all very scary to think about, and both sides need to be less buttheaded or scenarios like this will become thinkable. Fits Armeggedon way too well.

 

[ajwps]

Originally posted by NightTrain

I'm not aware of any actual Soviet pilots fighting, everything I've read about the affair said it was the Arabs against Israel. Got any sources?

In Korea and even Vietnam our pilots faced Soviet pilots flying incognito in Korean and Vietnamese jets, but this is new to me.

Yes I certainly do:

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/2848/operate5.htm

This was not lost upon Egypt's main sponsor, the USSR, which had armed Egypt with the best Soviet arms it had to offer. But these were not enough and when Egypt's president Nazer asked for further assistance, the Soviet Union responded by actually sending Russian pilots to help in the defence of Egypt's airspace. February 1970 saw the arrival of these Russian pilots along with 80 new Mig-21s, a large number of SAM batteries and other weapons for the Egyptian arsenal.

Egyptian Mig-21

At first the Russian pilots were confined to defending their own air bases as well as to the defence of Cairo's airspace. But as time passed Soviet assistance to the Egyptian anti aircraft forces begun to bear fruit and begun to hamper IAF operations, disrupting IAF deep penetration strikes which had been carried out rather freely before. This success pushed the Russians into further envolvement and they begun taking over missions previously carried out by the Egyptian Air Force, coming ever closer and closer to actively confronting the IAF.

Russian pilots began approaching IAF aircraft during April 1970 but Israeli pilots had orders not to engage these aircraft, and broke off whenever Russian Migs appeared, on occurances such as on the 13th, 18th and 29th. Although no confrontation took place, these events were widely reported in the international media. The Israeli minister of defence offered to limit IAF operations to the Suez Canal zone, if the Russians were to remain over Cairo and the heartland of Egypt, and for two months no Russian presence was detected in the Canal zone. On June 25th however, this "cease-fire" was broken when an Israeli Skyhawk, on an attack sortie against Egyptian forces on the Canal, was pursued by a pair of Mig-21s into the Sinai. One of the Migs launched an air-to-air missile against the Skyhawk, damaging it and forcing it to land in a nearby air base. This aggresive act on the part of the Russians and their intrusion into Israeli air space canceled any Israeli reservations about confronting the USSR. A plan began forming for a purely Soviet-Israeli confrontation where the Russians were to be taught that they are out of their league. Set to take place a third of the way between the city of Suez and Cairo, 12 of Israel's best fighter pilots, together credited with 59 enemy aircraft kills, were recruited for this specific mission.

It was a skirmish in the big picture of the Cold War.

It was a part of war aimed at Israel and not a skirmish. The United States was able to test their Israeli modified Skyhawk Jets under wartime conditions risking Israeli pilots and not one American pilot. It seems that 12 Israeli jet fighters were credited with 59 enemy jet kills without one loss of the Israeli pilots or warplanes. What a conincidence!

I honestly have no idea why so many people hate Israel with such passion. I've met people from there & talked to them online, they were normal, friendly people.

The Arabs appear to be and talk like ordinary, normal and friendly people when you meet them or talk to them. Ted Bundy seemed so nice and friendly when you talked to him or met him. Why did he become a monster killer of young women and girls as he was educated and had been working on his law degree? There is a parallel here.

I think there is a good reason why Israel is so hated. And as they hurt no one or country except after being attacked. Then they strike like few others could and destroy those that come against them. Israel is called the 'miner's canary.' When the world grows sick and deceitful Israel gets the blame. The 'miner's canary' used to be used by miners digging into the ground. The metaphor deals with miners who carried canaries in small cages and when it was to early to tell that there was noxious or poisonous gases begin to build up, the canary died and gave the miners a warning to get out.

I suspect it's blind, ignorant racism fueled by insane conspiracy theories, such as William Joyce displays constantly.

Actually it is not blind, ignorant or racism nor conspiracy theorys but a several eon long feeling of self worthlessness and envy by people who see the Jewish people's survival and bringing the ten comandments to the world giving man a guide to leading a righteous life. No one wants these now well accepted laws as it is not in the nature of man not to kill, steal, rape, pillage etc. The Jewish people remind the world that these rules still exist and if they are destroyed from the face of the earth, mankind can revert back to his primitive instincts.

The hatred the Arabs have for them is religious, driven by fundamentalism. No explaining it or trying to reason with that.

The hatred the Muslims have for the Jewish people and all the rest of the unbelievers of the world is based in their Qur'an bible from the prophet Muhammad. The Jews rejected Muhammad's claim of messiahship so he simply included the Jewish people as the enemy of Islam in Qur'an.

http://answering-islam.org.uk/Silas/ashraf.htm

In Medina Muhammad began to experience opposition by the Jewish tribes living nearby. For the most part they rejected his message and Islam. The Jews had a weak informal treaty with Muhammad but they were not on good terms. One of the Jews, Kab b. al-Ashraf, vocally supported Muhammad's enemies, the Meccans, against Muhammad. He let it be known that he believed that Muhammad was a phoney - not a prophet at all.

My statement stands. You missed the 'a lot of hard work' part, and that's important. I believe that once those regions gain modern governments, the fundamentalism will cease to lure in many muslims with their rabid hatred of others.

You have trust in an inherent goodness with a civilized mankind that simply desires to 'just get along' with the rest of mankind. But I am afraid that the primitive part of the human brain drives the majority of people to aggression and a basic instinct to kill (fundamentalism). The archipallium or primitive human (reptilian) brain part at the brain stem is where all this hate and aggression is derived. (see site below) You believe in a utopian society in which if we work hard enough and give up enough that primitive part of our brain will change its primal instincts. This is impossible.

http://www.epub.org.br/cm/n05/mente/limbic_i.htm

If that doesn't work, then eventually we'll have massive worldwide conflict against the muslims, and that will be bloody indeed. I'm hoping for the former solution.

I believe in another scenario than you forsee. A time will come when the Muslim nations and 14th century rivalries will cause them to destroy one another (self destruct) before they try to destroy mankind. The Iran Iraq ten year war against one another was just an early example. These primitive peoples put their own children in front of their western invented tanks to explode land mines instead of having their tanks disabled. You really believe that these people are civilized and want to live in peace with the unbelievers?

No, I suspect the majority of Palestinians are weary of war. They're completely outclassed & they know this hellish conflict is futile.

You are thinking like a civilized human being again. Remember that they rejoice and give out candy at parties when their own children are sent to explode in order to kill children at play or people eating at restaurants. Civilized people who are weary of war?

Arafat is the main reason there isn't peace. If his replacement doesn't play ball, then he needs to be replaced.

Behind Arafat ( a sick man with Parkinson's Disease and who knows what else) are hundreds more like him and ready to take his place. Besides Arafat there are other fundamentalist factions who oppose Arafats hold on the Arabs living in Israel. What is not reported to any extent is these warlords who actually kill one another in much greater number than they kill Israeli civilians. No Arafat is not the main reason that there is no peace in Israel.

Israel doesn't offically have nukes. Therefore, the UN can't officially want the nukes removed. I don't think anyone in their right mind would try and disarm Israel. I don't think Israel would even consider it for a millisecond, and rightfully so. It's a nice insurance policy for them against the local bad guys.

The UN cannot disarm anyone but can only vote to make resolutions and condemnations against democratic countries. They fail to do anything about the murder and torture of millions of African civilians or warrior tribes of Arabs who kill tens of thousands or slavery in the Sudan. But they can condemn Israel. No nation can disarm the nuclear weapons of another country without going to war. Remember the successful Israeli destruction of Saddam's nuclear factory in 1971. The world including the United States screamed and condemned Israel's action but today they thank their lucky stars that Israel took the initiative which prevent a subsequent nuclear disaster. Iran is now a target waiting to have their nuclear capability destroyed by an airstrike. The world holds its collective breath hoping Israel will take the initiative again.

I have no idea what this means.

It means that Sharon appears to do George Bush's ill conceived bidding to show weakness and withdrawl from Israel's Gaza Strip and Israel's west bank. Ariel Sharon at one time was a brave warrior who led Israel to many victories over the attacking Arab armies but now is reduced to a blubbering mass of defeatism that is interpreted by the Arabs as turning tail and running away. This is their signal to attack weakness while any show of strength makes the Arabs turn tail and run.

I've got a firm grip on reality, thank you. Have a care with insulting me in a conversation I was having with Jule. I'm not in the mood.

Sorry if you perceived insults in my response but believing that the amphibian part of the human brain is ready to be civilized is naive at best. All one has to do is look around in the world to see the evidence of humanity's animalistic behavior. Just open your newspaper or turn on your TV and you will see murder, rape, robbery happening every day in our own country not to mention the horrors occurring around the world.

How civilized is mankind when they behead blindfolded men for no better purpose than being frustrated at their own helplessness.

Have a good day....

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by nycflasher
Why did Arafat reject the 2000 proposal?
Because he doesn't recognize the state of Israel, period?
What a jackass!

does this suprise you? This is how all terrorists think.

 

[ajwps]

Originally posted by nycflasher
Why did Arafat reject the 2000 proposal?
Because he doesn't recognize the state of Israel, period?
What a jackass!

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr

does this suprise you? This is how all terrorists think.

Actually Arafat does recognize the reality of Israel. Arafat also recognizes that until the Jewish people and the country of Israel are totally destroyed, the Arabs will have a god that is false. One god that cannot save them or destroy their enemies because the Muslim believes that NOTHING HAPPENS WITHOUT THE WILL OF ALLAH.

The only weapon the Arab has is their children who are potential bombs. They have all the money they need for modern weapons systems but they have no one willing to challenge Israel with these weapons beside the fact that Arafat steals all the money sent for his Arabs to live with health care, food, homes, city services and the myriad of things necessary to a country.

So the fact is that Arafat does not want a state of Palestine in Israel, he simply doesn't want Jews to live. He lives trapped in a rock pile in Ramalah under the guns of his jailor/keepers.

Arafat has no alternative to turning down every offer given to him by Israel. If he were to accept anything at all, he would be terminated immediately by his own Islamic Jihadists.