The OLDER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate

[rylah]

History of the conflict just doesn't start with the 1st Zionist immigration, it starts with the Arab pogroms 40 years prior to that, that were the initial cause for Jewish political international organization as a response to Arab violence against Palestinian Jews.

Next mistake the Arabs did was join British military invasion of the land, but it's much easier to blame the Jews for all their idiocy and self-defeating choices..

An event out of context does not help.

So Arab pogroms that initiated Zionism are out of context?

What Arab pogroms? What was the context?

Like today. Israel is always "defending itself" from the people it is attacking.

How about the pogrom of the Jews in Hebeon in 1929, when 67 Jews were axed to death, as one example?

That was after the Zionist invasion.

What else you got?

How about the Arab pogroms against Palestinian Jews that - were an initial cause of Zionism?

 

[P F Tinmore]

An event out of context does not help.

So Arab pogroms that initiated Zionism are out of context?

What Arab pogroms? What was the context?

Like today. Israel is always "defending itself" from the people it is attacking.

How about the pogrom of the Jews in Hebeon in 1929, when 67 Jews were axed to death, as one example?

That was after the Zionist invasion.

What else you got?

How about the Arab pogroms against Palestinian Jews that - were an initial cause of Zionism?

The Palestinians went to Europe for pogroms against the Zionists?

 

[rylah]

So Arab pogroms that initiated Zionism are out of context?

What Arab pogroms? What was the context?

Like today. Israel is always "defending itself" from the people it is attacking.

How about the pogrom of the Jews in Hebeon in 1929, when 67 Jews were axed to death, as one example?

That was after the Zionist invasion.

What else you got?

How about the Arab pogroms against Palestinian Jews that - were an initial cause of Zionism?

The Palestinians went to Europe for pogroms against the Zionists?

Yes,

 

[Billo_Really]

Yes more of the baseless claims - facts show You wrong.
History doesn't start at 1880.

Facts show that there were much bigger waves of migration of Arabs
Facts show that the war started with Arab pogroms against Palestinian Jews.
Facts show that Arab violence was an initial cause of Zionism.

Fact is You everything You blame the Jews for is a drop in the bucket compared to what Arabs did themselves.

If you want to talk about racist policies tell us - during which rule did the land see the highest increase in both Arab and Jewish populations? Tell us in which middle eastern Arab country do Jews enjoy (anywhere close) the rights Arab enjoy in Israel?

Here is the official migration record in the 1920's...



...that is the fact. Here's another one. At the turn of the last century, the number of Jews in Palestine was only 50,000.

Despite the anti-Semitism in Europe, only small groups had emigrated to Palestine.... They numbered perhaps 50,000 at the end of the nineteenth century ...
​

And here's another fact. In 1920 there were 580,000 Arabs living in Palestine and at best, only 30,000 Jews. So where is this bigger wave of Arabs you are referring to?

"Here is a country with 580,000 Arabs and 30,000 or is it 60,000 Jews (by no means all Zionists). ​

As far as racist policies regarding land,

The King-Crane Commission had reported that Jewish colonists were planning a radical transformation of Palestine:

"The fact came out repeatedly in the Commission's conference with Jewish representatives, that the Zionists looked forward to a practically complete dispossession of the present non-Jewish inhabitants of Palestine, by various forms of purchase" ​

And more to the point...

"Keren Kayemet draft lease: Employment of Jewish labour only
"... The lessee undertakes to execute all works connected with the cultivation of the holding only with Jewish labour. Failure to comply with this duty by the employment of non-Jewish labour shall render the lessee liable to the payment of compensation ..."

"The lease also provides that the holding shall never be held by any but a Jew ..."
​

So not only were Arabs barred from working on the land, they were also barred from ever buying the land from a Jew. That to, is a fact.

So my claims are not baseless.

​

 

[rylah]

Yes more of the baseless claims - facts show You wrong.
History doesn't start at 1880.

Facts show that there were much bigger waves of migration of Arabs
Facts show that the war started with Arab pogroms against Palestinian Jews.
Facts show that Arab violence was an initial cause of Zionism.

Fact is You everything You blame the Jews for is a drop in the bucket compared to what Arabs did themselves.

If you want to talk about racist policies tell us - during which rule did the land see the highest increase in both Arab and Jewish populations? Tell us in which middle eastern Arab country do Jews enjoy (anywhere close) the rights Arab enjoy in Israel?

Here is the official migration record in the 1920's...



...that is the fact. Here's another one. At the turn of the last century, the number of Jews in Palestine was only 50,000.

Despite the anti-Semitism in Europe, only small groups had emigrated to Palestine.... They numbered perhaps 50,000 at the end of the nineteenth century ...
​

And here's another fact. In 1920 there were 580,000 Arabs living in Palestine and at best, only 30,000 Jews. So where is this bigger wave of Arabs you are referring to?

As far as racist policies regarding land,

The King-Crane Commission had reported that Jewish colonists were planning a radical transformation of Palestine:

"The fact came out repeatedly in the Commission's conference with Jewish representatives, that the Zionists looked forward to a practically complete dispossession of the present non-Jewish inhabitants of Palestine, by various forms of purchase" ​

And more to the point...

"Keren Kayemet draft lease: Employment of Jewish labour only
"... The lessee undertakes to execute all works connected with the cultivation of the holding only with Jewish labour. Failure to comply with this duty by the employment of non-Jewish labour shall render the lessee liable to the payment of compensation ..."

"The lease also provides that the holding shall never be held by any but a Jew ..."
​

So not only were Arabs barred from working on the land, they were also barred from ever buying the land from a Jew. That to, is a fact.

So my claims are not baseless.

​

And You have a point?
Waves of Arab migrations and pogroms against Palestinian Jews preceded all of that.

 

[Billo_Really]

And You have a point?
Waves of Arab migrations and pogroms against Palestinian Jews preceded all of that.

Maybe in Europe. But not in Palestine after 1838.

 

[rylah]

And You have a point?
Waves of Arab migrations and pogroms against Palestinian Jews preceded all of that.

Maybe in Europe. But not in Palestine after 1838.

One of You bigger problems is that the bigger You crazy claims are - the easier they are to contradict with FACTS:

The Masarwa clan

in Arabic : Masarwa is one of the largest Arab families in Israel. The name of the clan preserves its Egyptian origin.

History
The geographical proximity and the fact that the Land of Israel was for centuries under a regime centered in Egypt led to the almost permanent migration of peasants and Bedouins from Egypt to the Land of Israel. Beginning in the 18th century , this immigration increased, culminating in the days of Ibrahim Pasha, who conquered Palestine in 1831 and ruled it until 1840 . Many of his soldiers had deserted and remained in the country, and general immigration had increased since his rule. During the British Mandate many workers were brought from Egypt and some remained in Israel. The rise in the standard of living of the Arabs in the country also had a great influence on the Egyptian fellahs from the delta region, who suffered from great poverty and overcrowding.

The Egyptian immigrants dispersed throughout the country, but mainly concentrated between Tulkarm and Gaza. Some of the names of the villages and the family names of the Arabs in the country testify to the Egyptian origin or hint at a certain place of origin in Egypt. According to Yaakov Shimoni, this group is the largest of the foreign minorities among Muslims in Israel. [1] [2]

 

[Billo_Really]

One of You bigger problems is that the bigger You crazy claims are - the easier they are to contradict with FACTS:

The Masarwa clan

in Arabic : Masarwa is one of the largest Arab families in Israel. The name of the clan preserves its Egyptian origin.

History
The geographical proximity and the fact that the Land of Israel was for centuries under a regime centered in Egypt led to the almost permanent migration of peasants and Bedouins from Egypt to the Land of Israel. Beginning in the 18th century , this immigration increased, culminating in the days of Ibrahim Pasha, who conquered Palestine in 1831 and ruled it until 1840 . Many of his soldiers had deserted and remained in the country, and general immigration had increased since his rule. During the British Mandate many workers were brought from Egypt and some remained in Israel. The rise in the standard of living of the Arabs in the country also had a great influence on the Egyptian fellahs from the delta region, who suffered from great poverty and overcrowding.

The Egyptian immigrants dispersed throughout the country, but mainly concentrated between Tulkarm and Gaza. Some of the names of the villages and the family names of the Arabs in the country testify to the Egyptian origin or hint at a certain place of origin in Egypt. According to Yaakov Shimoni, this group is the largest of the foreign minorities among Muslims in Israel. [1] [2]

How could there possibly be a rise in the standard of living for Arabs, when they were not even allowed to work on Jewish land?

 

[rylah]

One of You bigger problems is that the bigger You crazy claims are - the easier they are to contradict with FACTS:

The Masarwa clan

in Arabic : Masarwa is one of the largest Arab families in Israel. The name of the clan preserves its Egyptian origin.

History
The geographical proximity and the fact that the Land of Israel was for centuries under a regime centered in Egypt led to the almost permanent migration of peasants and Bedouins from Egypt to the Land of Israel. Beginning in the 18th century , this immigration increased, culminating in the days of Ibrahim Pasha, who conquered Palestine in 1831 and ruled it until 1840 . Many of his soldiers had deserted and remained in the country, and general immigration had increased since his rule. During the British Mandate many workers were brought from Egypt and some remained in Israel. The rise in the standard of living of the Arabs in the country also had a great influence on the Egyptian fellahs from the delta region, who suffered from great poverty and overcrowding.

The Egyptian immigrants dispersed throughout the country, but mainly concentrated between Tulkarm and Gaza. Some of the names of the villages and the family names of the Arabs in the country testify to the Egyptian origin or hint at a certain place of origin in Egypt. According to Yaakov Shimoni, this group is the largest of the foreign minorities among Muslims in Israel. [1] [2]

How could there possibly be a rise in the standard of living for Arabs, when they were not even allowed to work on Jewish land?

With Jewish investment and transformation of the land, the average income rose in folds compared to Arab countries in th neighborhood.

Everything rose to higher level, from investment of government to average daily work-wage.
Today there're more Arabs and Jews living in the land than ever in history under Arab rule.

 

[P F Tinmore]

What Arab pogroms? What was the context?

Like today. Israel is always "defending itself" from the people it is attacking.

How about the pogrom of the Jews in Hebeon in 1929, when 67 Jews were axed to death, as one example?

That was after the Zionist invasion.

What else you got?

How about the Arab pogroms against Palestinian Jews that - were an initial cause of Zionism?

The Palestinians went to Europe for pogroms against the Zionists?

Yes,

You are late in the game.

 

[rylah]

How about the pogrom of the Jews in Hebeon in 1929, when 67 Jews were axed to death, as one example?

That was after the Zionist invasion.

What else you got?

How about the Arab pogroms against Palestinian Jews that - were an initial cause of Zionism?

The Palestinians went to Europe for pogroms against the Zionists?

Yes,

You are late in the game.

How so?
Arab pogroms initiated Zionism,
what followed was just the continuation of the same.

That You always run away from facts only shows how self-defeating are Your one liners.

 

[P F Tinmore]

That was after the Zionist invasion.

What else you got?

How about the Arab pogroms against Palestinian Jews that - were an initial cause of Zionism?

The Palestinians went to Europe for pogroms against the Zionists?

Yes,

You are late in the game.

How so?
Arab pogroms initiated Zionism,
what followed was just the continuation of the same.

That You always run away from facts only shows how self-defeating are Your one liners.

WWII was 40 years too late.

 

[Hollie]

How about the Arab pogroms against Palestinian Jews that - were an initial cause of Zionism?

The Palestinians went to Europe for pogroms against the Zionists?

Yes,

You are late in the game.

How so?
Arab pogroms initiated Zionism,
what followed was just the continuation of the same.

That You always run away from facts only shows how self-defeating are Your one liners.

WWII was 40 years too late.

The invention of “Pal’istanian“ as a nationality, (invented by an Egyptian), was too late to fool anyone.

 

[rylah]

How about the Arab pogroms against Palestinian Jews that - were an initial cause of Zionism?

The Palestinians went to Europe for pogroms against the Zionists?

Yes,

You are late in the game.

How so?
Arab pogroms initiated Zionism,
what followed was just the continuation of the same.

That You always run away from facts only shows how self-defeating are Your one liners.

WWII was 40 years too late.

And yet that was nothing different from Arab pogroms prior to Zionism.
Same antisemitic blood libels, same target.

 

[Billo_Really]

With Jewish investment and transformation of the land, the average income rose in folds compared to Arab countries in th neighborhood.

Everything rose to higher level, from investment of government to average daily work-wage.

Maybe on the Jewish side, but definitely not on the Arab side.

Today there're more Arabs and Jews living in the land than ever in history under Arab rule.

What Arab rule?

 

[rylah]

With Jewish investment and transformation of the land, the average income rose in folds compared to Arab countries in th neighborhood.

Everything rose to higher level, from investment of government to average daily work-wage.

Maybe on the Jewish side, but definitely not on the Arab side.

Today there're more Arabs and Jews living in the land than ever in history under Arab rule.

What Arab rule?

Maybe we should compare numbers, the size Arab population at it's peak prior to liberation of Israel vs size of Arab population today in the land.
And the amount of income, product , trade before and after.

Do You have those numbers?

 

[rylah]

What Arab rule?

Q.You don't know that the land was conquer by Arabs?
So stubborn to show that You have no basic knowledge whatsoever about the subject

(PA president Mahmoud Abbas)

Abbas tribe

The Banu Abbas (Arabic: بنو عباس‎) are an Arabian tribe, descendants of Al-‘Abbas ibn ‘Abd al-Muttalib. The caliphs of the Banu Abbas served as heads of the Muslim community for a period of five centuries (from 750 until the sack of Baghdad in 1258).[2] This was the Abbasid caliphate.

Abbasid Caliphate - Wikipedia

 

[Billo_Really]

Maybe we should compare numbers, the size Arab population at it's peak prior to liberation of Israel vs size of Arab population today in the land.
And the amount of income, product , trade before and after.

Do You have those numbers?

It is just lunacy to claim Arab economics is better when almost half their population was driven from the area by Jewish terrorists.

 

[Billo_Really]

Q.You don't know that the land was conquer by Arabs?
So stubborn to show that You have no basic knowledge whatsoever about the subject

(PA president Mahmoud Abbas)

Abbas tribe

The Banu Abbas (Arabic: بنو عباس‎) are an Arabian tribe, descendants of Al-‘Abbas ibn ‘Abd al-Muttalib. The caliphs of the Banu Abbas served as heads of the Muslim community for a period of five centuries (from 750 until the sack of Baghdad in 1258).[2] This was the Abbasid caliphate.

Abbasid Caliphate - Wikipedia[/QUOTE]That has nothing to do with the creation of Israel.

 

[rylah]

Maybe we should compare numbers, the size Arab population at it's peak prior to liberation of Israel vs size of Arab population today in the land.
And the amount of income, product , trade before and after.

Do You have those numbers?

It is just lunacy to claim Arab economics is better when almost half their population was driven from the area by Jewish terrorists.

I'm not suggesting anything, all I'm saying bring the numbers and let's compare:

the size Arab population at it's peak prior to liberation of Israel vs size of Arab population today in the land. And the amount of income, product , trade before and after.

I think I was very clear.