The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?

[Hollie]

1. There was no colonial settler project undertaken by the Ottomans. Furthermore, you aren't even able to articulate who the Ottomans invaded in Palestine.

2. The only migration and invasion of Palestine of the last 200 years was that of the European Zionists as confirmed in Resolution A-364:

You consistently make things up and lie. When you provide a source it is a Hasbara Zionist propaganda source. You have no credibility.

"b)IMMIGRATION AND NATURAL INCREASE

15. These changes in the population have been brought about by two forces: natural increase and immigration. The great increase in the Jewish population is due in the main to immigration. From 1920 to 1946, the total number of recorded Jewish immigrants into Palestine was about 376,000, or an average of over 8,000 per year. The flow has not been regular, however, being fairly high in 1924 to 1926, falling in the next few years (there was a net emigration in 1927) and rising to even higher levels between 1933 and 1936 as a result of the Nazi persecution in Europe. Between the census year of 1931 and the year 1936, the proportion of Jews to the total population rose from 18 per cent to nearly 30 per cent.

16. The Arab population has increased almost entirely as a result of an excess of births over deaths.

A/364 of 3 September 1947

This cut and paste which you have cut and pasted multiple times across multiple threads has previously been refuted. I gave you source documentation but your only response has been to spam multiple threads with the same cut and paste.

 

[Phoenall]

The worlds top geneticists have shown that the Jews in Ethiopia have the same DNA as the Jews in Russia and East Europe and the M.E. Not a close match but an exact match and no arab muslims or Christians have even a close match.

What a BS! You do not understand the scientific language, you have never read the works you are referring to.

What you are referring to is the debunked works about the so-called "Cohen genes", which refers only to the direct paternal line of the Cohens.

But they never mention that only 3% of Jews belong to the Cohens, and that the paternal line is only a tiny percentage of the genome of a male (only a couple of markers in the Y-DNA) that are inherited from father to sons.

But the Levites do not have the same markers, though it is believed that Cohens and Levis stem from the same male that lived many thousand years ago!

And most Zionists never talk about the mtDNA, and Autosomal DNA, whoch compose more than 90% of human DNA.
Dr Eran Elhaik did a comprehensive research in this regard and confirmed that the Ashkenazi Jews predominantly stem from the Slavs and Khazars. Even the East- and West-Ashkenazi are different, they have totally different maternal lines, because the founding mothers of the different European Jewish communities were different local women.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/01/130116195333.htm

The Ethiopian Jews do not have anything in common with Ashkenazi Jews, except that both are Homo Sapiens.

So do explain the other "tribes" other than the Cohens who have distinctive DNA strands. This has been proven many times since the study you link to from 2007, a lot has happened in the last 9 years.


Anything to racially attack the Jews with you isn't it.

 

[Phoenall]

Oh, BTW, thanks for admitting "Zionist Israel" IS a settler colonial project. How successful it is, is still to be determined.

Are they not "returning" to Israel after 2000 years of supposed "expulsion"?
Do they not believe that they are the only legitimate owners, because their tribal god presumably told them that Palestine forever belongs to this self-defined and self-chosen group of people?

No they say they are the owners because of an international treaty held in 1923 that gave them sovereignty of the land. It is your group that now believes that they own the world and have been commanded to kill everyone else so they can rule over it. Time you admitted that you are following a pack of savages that will slit your throat as soon as look at you.

 

[Phoenall]

The indigenous Jews of Palestine along with the Christians

How many indigenous Jews lived at this period in Palestine, and how many of the descendants of these Jews later accepted the Zionist idea of a "Jewish State"?

I guess that there was less than 1% of Jews among the Palestinians before the Turkish Conquest, and that non of the descendants of these Jews supported the idea of crazy Europeans, who called themselves "Zionists", to create a "Jewish State" on this territory, and ethnically cleanse this territory from the native population.

Of course you would as that is what your imam told you when he gave you the pallywood video to watch

 

[Phoenall]

The European Zionists, Europeans in every respect, "returning" to a place in the Middle East is akin to Europeans returning to Africa because. Lucy an ancient predecessor hominid, was born there.

No it is like the Italians returning to Italy after they have never even seen the place as they lived in a project in Brooklyn for the last 50 years. Time to stop being a hypocrite and hand back your lands to the Amerindians.

 

[Phoenall]

1. There was no colonial settler project undertaken by the Ottomans. Furthermore, you aren't even able to articulate who the Ottomans invaded in Palestine.

2. The only migration and invasion of Palestine of the last 200 years was that of the European Zionists as confirmed in Resolution A-364:

You consistently make things up and lie. When you provide a source it is a Hasbara Zionist propaganda source. You have no credibility.

"b)IMMIGRATION AND NATURAL INCREASE

15. These changes in the population have been brought about by two forces: natural increase and immigration. The great increase in the Jewish population is due in the main to immigration. From 1920 to 1946, the total number of recorded Jewish immigrants into Palestine was about 376,000, or an average of over 8,000 per year. The flow has not been regular, however, being fairly high in 1924 to 1926, falling in the next few years (there was a net emigration in 1927) and rising to even higher levels between 1933 and 1936 as a result of the Nazi persecution in Europe. Between the census year of 1931 and the year 1936, the proportion of Jews to the total population rose from 18 per cent to nearly 30 per cent.

16. The Arab population has increased almost entirely as a result of an excess of births over deaths.

A/364 of 3 September 1947

You forget that the mandatory was not taxed with looking at the immigration numbers for arab muslims, so ignored them completely. Then made up some facts and figures to cover their bungling

 

[Art__Allm]

The European Zionists, Europeans in every respect, "returning" to a place in the Middle East is akin to Europeans returning to Africa because. Lucy an ancient predecessor hominid, was born there.

Yes, if you can return to your presumed land after 2000 years, why not return to Africa and kick out the squatters?



BTW, in South Africa there were no Black Africans at the time the Dutch farmers, the Boers, colonized this land.

There were a couple of Bushmen, but no black Africans.

Black Africans came to South Africa after the Dutch Boers already colonized the land.

But today Black Africans claim that they are the indigenous population of South Africa, and the Europeans are the wicked invader who took away their land.

And this narrative is as readily accepted as the narrative of European Zionists returning to Palestine, though their ancestors were pagans who converted to Judaism in South Russia after the 10 th century AD.

 

[Art__Allm]

1. There was no colonial settler project undertaken by the Ottomans. Furthermore, you aren't even able to articulate who the Ottomans invaded in Palestine.

1. There was no colonial settler project undertaken by the Ottomans. Furthermore, you aren't even able to articulate who the Ottomans invaded in Palestine.

2. The only migration and invasion of Palestine of the last 200 years was that of the European Zionists as confirmed in Resolution A-364:

You consistently make things up and lie. When you provide a source it is a Hasbara Zionist propaganda source. You have no credibility.

"b)IMMIGRATION AND NATURAL INCREASE

15. These changes in the population have been brought about by two forces: natural increase and immigration. The great increase in the Jewish population is due in the main to immigration. From 1920 to 1946, the total number of recorded Jewish immigrants into Palestine was about 376,000, or an average of over 8,000 per year. The flow has not been regular, however, being fairly high in 1924 to 1926, falling in the next few years (there was a net emigration in 1927) and rising to even higher levels between 1933 and 1936 as a result of the Nazi persecution in Europe. Between the census year of 1931 and the year 1936, the proportion of Jews to the total population rose from 18 per cent to nearly 30 per cent.

16. The Arab population has increased almost entirely as a result of an excess of births over deaths.

https://unispal.un.org/DPA/DPR/unispal.nsf/0/07175DE9FA2DE563852568D3006E10F3

2. The only migration and invasion of Palestine of the last 200 years was that of the European Zionists as confirmed in Resolution A-364:

You consistently make things up and lie. When you provide a source it is a Hasbara Zionist propaganda source. You have no credibility.

"b)IMMIGRATION AND NATURAL INCREASE

15. These changes in the population have been brought about by two forces: natural increase and immigration. The great increase in the Jewish population is due in the main to immigration. From 1920 to 1946, the total number of recorded Jewish immigrants into Palestine was about 376,000, or an average of over 8,000 per year. The flow has not been regular, however, being fairly high in 1924 to 1926, falling in the next few years (there was a net emigration in 1927) and rising to even higher levels between 1933 and 1936 as a result of the Nazi persecution in Europe. Between the census year of 1931 and the year 1936, the proportion of Jews to the total population rose from 18 per cent to nearly 30 per cent.

16. The Arab population has increased almost entirely as a result of an excess of births over deaths.

A/364 of 3 September 1947

Good post!

BTW, even if there was a small influx of population to Palestine, these migrants did not have any intention to kick out the native Semites and create their own state.

These small numbers of migrants readily integrated into the existing Palestinian society, they assimilated and you cannot find any traces of this migration which did not cause any problems to Palestinians.

If Zionists came to Palestine with the same intention as the previous small waves of migrants, if they accepted the existing Palestinian society and integrated into into it, there would be no conflict.

It is obvious that the Zionists created the conflict, because they had the intention to create an exclusive Jewish state on the land that was already settled for more than 2000 years!
Jabotinsky openly talks about the colonizing of Palestine against the will of the native population, he was aware that this plan could only been implemented by force, speak by violence.


"Zionist colonisation must be either terminated or carried out against the wishes of the native population. This colonisation can, therefore, be continued and make progress only under the protection of a power independent of the native population – an iron wall, which will be in a position to resist the pressure to the native population. This is, in toto, our policy towards the Arabs ... A voluntary reconciliation with the Arabs is out of the question either now or in the near future".

----
Jabotinsky, The Iron War (We and the Arabs), written in 1923.

In this short quote Jabotinsky mentions the Palestinian Arabs as the NATIVE POPULATION three times.

 

[Art__Allm]

You forget that the mandatory was not taxed with looking at the immigration numbers for arab muslims, so ignored them completely. Then made up some facts and figures to cover their bungling

As already mentioned, no migrants caused any problems to the Palestinians, they readily integrated into the Palestinian society.

If Zionists did the same, there would be peace in the region.

 

[Shusha]

As already mentioned, no migrants caused any problems to the Palestinians, they readily integrated into the Palestinian society.

If Zionists did the same, there would be peace in the region.

There would also be peace in the region if the Palestinians accepted the Jewish culture and integrated into Jewish society.

Let's be honest -- at this point, just not going to happen. Best put each culture in its own sandbox in a two state solution.

 

[Hollie]

You forget that the mandatory was not taxed with looking at the immigration numbers for arab muslims, so ignored them completely. Then made up some facts and figures to cover their bungling

As already mentioned, no migrants caused any problems to the Palestinians, they readily integrated into the Palestinian society.

If Zionists did the same, there would be peace in the region.

Nonsense.

Do yourself a favor and look at the history of islamism. Non-moslems are reviled. Do a search with the term "dhimmitude".

 

[Art__Allm]

So do explain the other "tribes" other than the Cohens who have distinctive DNA strands. This has been proven many times since the study you link to from 2007, a lot has happened in the last 9 years.

What DNA strands are you talking about?
Do you really understand the matter?

Is Judaism not transferred via the maternal line?

Do you know what Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) is?


"The origins of Ashkenazi Jews remain highly controversial. Like Judaism, mitochondrial DNA is passed along the maternal line. Its variation in the Ashkenazim is highly distinctive, with four major and numerous minor founders. However, due to their rarity in the general population, these founders have been difficult to trace to a source. Here we show that all four major founders, ~40% of Ashkenazi mtDNA variation, have ancestry in prehistoric Europe, rather than the Near East or Caucasus. Furthermore, most of the remaining minor founders share a similar deep European ancestry.

Thus the great majority of Ashkenazi maternal lineages were not brought from the Levant, as commonly supposed, nor recruited in the Caucasus, as sometimes suggested, but assimilated within Europe.

These results point to a significant role for the conversion of women in the formation of Ashkenazi communities, and provide the foundation for a detailed reconstruction of Ashkenazi genealogical history".

A substantial prehistoric European ancestry amongst Ashkenazi maternal lineages : Nature Communications : Nature Publishing Group

As we see, all founding mothers of European Jewish communities were European women, who converted to Judaism in the Middle Ages.

So how can somebody who did not inherit their maternal DNA from Sarah claim to return to Israel?



Yes, some Ashkenazi Jews can trance their paternal DNA to the Middle East, but Middle East is a huge region. Palestine is a tiny spot on this map:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/Haplogroup_J_(Y-DNA).PNG

So if some Ashkenazi males can trace his origin to the Middle East, then his ancestors may have lived in any of the areas with the high percentage of J-Haplogroups.

What is the explanation?

Well, in the Middle Ages many Semitic merchants traveled from Khazaria to Africa and Asia, some of them converted to Islam, others converted to Judaism, and these J-Haplogroups can be traced by a huge number of people on a huge territory, and most of the carriers of the J-Haplogroup have nothing to do with Judaism.

So if some Ashkenazi and Mizrahi have the same J-Haplogroups, how can this prove that they stem from Hebrews?

Are you kidding?

The conversion to Islam or Judaism does not change your genetic makeup, and the mentioned J-Haplogroup is older than any form of Monotheism.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

So do explain the other "tribes" other than the Cohens who have distinctive DNA strands. This has been proven many times since the study you link to from 2007, a lot has happened in the last 9 years.

What DNA strands are you talking about?
Do you really understand the matter?

Is Judaism not transferred via the maternal line?

Do you know what Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) is?


"The origins of Ashkenazi Jews remain highly controversial. Like Judaism, mitochondrial DNA is passed along the maternal line. Its variation in the Ashkenazim is highly distinctive, with four major and numerous minor founders. However, due to their rarity in the general population, these founders have been difficult to trace to a source. Here we show that all four major founders, ~40% of Ashkenazi mtDNA variation, have ancestry in prehistoric Europe, rather than the Near East or Caucasus. Furthermore, most of the remaining minor founders share a similar deep European ancestry.

Thus the great majority of Ashkenazi maternal lineages were not brought from the Levant, as commonly supposed, nor recruited in the Caucasus, as sometimes suggested, but assimilated within Europe.

These results point to a significant role for the conversion of women in the formation of Ashkenazi communities, and provide the foundation for a detailed reconstruction of Ashkenazi genealogical history".

A substantial prehistoric European ancestry amongst Ashkenazi maternal lineages : Nature Communications : Nature Publishing Group

As we see, all founding mothers of European Jewish communities were European women, who converted to Judaism in the Middle Ages.

So how can somebody who did not inherit their maternal DNA from Sarah claim to return to Israel?



Yes, some Ashkenazi Jews can trance their paternal DNA to the Middle East, but Middle East is a huge region. Palestine is a tiny spot on this map:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/Haplogroup_J_(Y-DNA).PNG

So if some Ashkenazi males can trace his origin to the Middle East, then his ancestors may have lived in any of the areas with the high percentage of J-Haplogroups.

What is the explanation?

Well, in the Middle Ages many Semitic merchants traveled from Khazaria to Africa and Asia, some of them converted to Islam, others converted to Judaism, and these J-Haplogroups can be traced by a huge number of people on a huge territory, and most of the carriers of the J-Haplogroup have nothing to do with Judaism.

So if some Ashkenazi and Mizrahi have the same J-Haplogroups, how can this prove that they stem from Hebrews?

Are you kidding?

The conversion to Islam or Judaism does not change your genetic makeup, and the mentioned J-Haplogroup is older than any form of Monotheism.

It wouldn't matter since a sincere convert to Judaism is considered to be Jewish. My name in Hebrew is Binyamin ben (son of) Aryeh. If a male converts to Judaism, he is called a son of Abraham (no matter what his biological father's name is), whereas a female convert to Judaism is called a daughter of Sarah.

 

[Art__Allm]

There would also be peace in the region if the Palestinians accepted the Jewish culture and integrated into Jewish society.

BS, some black guys say that they are Hebrews, they believe that they are the real descendants of Hebrews.

You cannot become a Jew because the white Zionist Rabbis accept any Russian with a Jewish grandmother, who does not speak Hebrew, does not care about the religion and has noting to do with "Jewish culture".

But they will never accept anybody who does not have, according to the notion of white Jews, a Jewish ancestry.



"Black Hebrew Israelites (also called Black Hebrews, African Hebrew Israelites, and Hebrew Israelites) are groups of African Americans who believe they are descendants of the ancient Israelites. Black Hebrews adhere in varying degrees to the religious beliefs and practices of both Christianity and Judaism. They are not recognized as Jews by the greater Jewish community.
...
But, the Israeli government ruled in 1973 that the group did not qualify for automatic citizenship because they could not prove Jewish descent and had not undergone Orthodox conversion".

Black Hebrew Israelites - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As we see, Zionists believe that Jewishness can be inherited, you do not have to have any Jewish culture, the "Jewish blood" is the condition that really matters.

And what do they mean by "Orthodox Conversion"?
If you are forced to convert to integrate into Israeli society, then Israel is an even worse a theocracy.

Christians and Muslims lived in peace in Palestine for centuries, nobody was forced to convert to another religion, about 30% of expelled Palestinians were Christians.

 

[Art__Allm]

It wouldn't matter since a sincere convert to Judaism is considered to be Jewish.

My name in Hebrew is Binyamin ben (son of) Aryeh. If a male converts to Judaism, he is called a son of Abraham (no matter what his biological father's name is), whereas a female convert to Judaism is called a daughter of Sarah.

How can a convert return to Israel and become a native Semite?
How can converts claim that Palestine was their ancestral homeland?

 

[Art__Allm]

Do yourself a favor and look at the history of islamism. Non-moslems are reviled. Do a search with the term "dhimmitude".

About 30% of Palestinians were Christians, they lived in peace with their Muslim compatriots, till the crazy Europeans, called Zionists, implemented their crazy project in Palestine and expelled the native Semites, be they Muslims or Christians.

 

[Phoenall]

You forget that the mandatory was not taxed with looking at the immigration numbers for arab muslims, so ignored them completely. Then made up some facts and figures to cover their bungling

As already mentioned, no migrants caused any problems to the Palestinians, they readily integrated into the Palestinian society.

If Zionists did the same, there would be peace in the region.

And you know that all the Jews that became Israelis were Zionists..............HOW ? Quite a lot were those from the surrounding lands that saw the colonisation of Palestine as the answer to the past abuses and atrocities faced by the Jews. Today roughly 80% of the population of Israel was born there and meet the criteria for Palestinian citizenship, which os what the arab muslims are so afraid of.

 

[Phoenall]

It wouldn't matter since a sincere convert to Judaism is considered to be Jewish.

My name in Hebrew is Binyamin ben (son of) Aryeh. If a male converts to Judaism, he is called a son of Abraham (no matter what his biological father's name is), whereas a female convert to Judaism is called a daughter of Sarah.

How can a convert return to Israel and become a native Semite?
How can converts claim that Palestine was their ancestral homeland?

By the same means a Catholic Italian can claim that they are American, or an arab muslim claim they are British. The wording of international treaties and laws, that don't always make sense. How can a Pakistani become a Palestinian today and an American tomorrow ?

 

[Shusha]

How can a convert return to Israel and become a native Semite?
How can converts claim that Palestine was their ancestral homeland?

If a Palestinian mother can't have children and her children are adopted, does that mean they have no claim to be "Palestinian"? After all, the adopted children have no "Palestinian blood" or "ethnic markers".

Are we going to test all Jewish people and all Palestinian people to see if they have the "correct" DNA to be considered eligible for living in Israel/Palestine/Gaza? /sarcasm


All you are doing here is trying to use science and technology as a way to legitimize a biological racism.

A guiding principle in the concept of self-determination is that the group self-identifies the members of the group. Outsiders don't get a say.

Oh, and eyeroll at the Khazar conspiracy theory. That has been widely and soundly debunked.

 

[Phoenall]

Do yourself a favor and look at the history of islamism. Non-moslems are reviled. Do a search with the term "dhimmitude".

About 30% of Palestinians were Christians, they lived in peace with their Muslim compatriots, till the crazy Europeans, called Zionists, implemented their crazy project in Palestine and expelled the native Semites, be they Muslims or Christians.

And here we have another Nazi that uses Zionist out of context because they know any other term would show they were Jew Haters and want to rid the world of the Jews. The European Jews expelled no one at all that was not an enemy of the state, and they only did what every other nation did around that time. To single out the Jews as you are is rabid racism that we are supposed to have eliminated from our world, and here it is still blooming.