The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?

[Shusha]

And here we have another Nazi that uses Zionist out of context because they know any other term would show they were Jew Haters and want to rid the world of the Jews. The European Jews expelled no one at all that was not an enemy of the state, and they only did what every other nation did around that time. To single out the Jews as you are is rabid racism that we are supposed to have eliminated from our world, and here it is still blooming.

Israel actually showed considerable restraint compared to most after WWII when it came to forced population transfers.

 

[Phoenall]

So do explain the other "tribes" other than the Cohens who have distinctive DNA strands. This has been proven many times since the study you link to from 2007, a lot has happened in the last 9 years.

What DNA strands are you talking about?
Do you really understand the matter?

Is Judaism not transferred via the maternal line?

Do you know what Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) is?


"The origins of Ashkenazi Jews remain highly controversial. Like Judaism, mitochondrial DNA is passed along the maternal line. Its variation in the Ashkenazim is highly distinctive, with four major and numerous minor founders. However, due to their rarity in the general population, these founders have been difficult to trace to a source. Here we show that all four major founders, ~40% of Ashkenazi mtDNA variation, have ancestry in prehistoric Europe, rather than the Near East or Caucasus. Furthermore, most of the remaining minor founders share a similar deep European ancestry.

Thus the great majority of Ashkenazi maternal lineages were not brought from the Levant, as commonly supposed, nor recruited in the Caucasus, as sometimes suggested, but assimilated within Europe.

These results point to a significant role for the conversion of women in the formation of Ashkenazi communities, and provide the foundation for a detailed reconstruction of Ashkenazi genealogical history".

A substantial prehistoric European ancestry amongst Ashkenazi maternal lineages : Nature Communications : Nature Publishing Group

As we see, all founding mothers of European Jewish communities were European women, who converted to Judaism in the Middle Ages.

So how can somebody who did not inherit their maternal DNA from Sarah claim to return to Israel?



Yes, some Ashkenazi Jews can trance their paternal DNA to the Middle East, but Middle East is a huge region. Palestine is a tiny spot on this map:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/Haplogroup_J_(Y-DNA).PNG

So if some Ashkenazi males can trace his origin to the Middle East, then his ancestors may have lived in any of the areas with the high percentage of J-Haplogroups.

What is the explanation?

Well, in the Middle Ages many Semitic merchants traveled from Khazaria to Africa and Asia, some of them converted to Islam, others converted to Judaism, and these J-Haplogroups can be traced by a huge number of people on a huge territory, and most of the carriers of the J-Haplogroup have nothing to do with Judaism.

So if some Ashkenazi and Mizrahi have the same J-Haplogroups, how can this prove that they stem from Hebrews?

Are you kidding?

The conversion to Islam or Judaism does not change your genetic makeup, and the mentioned J-Haplogroup is older than any form of Monotheism.

And if your link was right the Jewish population would have died out because of in-breeding 1000 years ago. To state that the modern day Jews were descended from just 4 females is ludicrous in the extreme. To use a fictional people invented in the middle of the 20C is scratching in the dirt for any clue to support your claims. Find one mention of khazaria prior to the second world war in any history books.

 

[Challenger]

Oh, BTW, thanks for admitting "Zionist Israel" IS a settler colonial project. How successful it is, is still to be determined.

Are they not "returning" to Israel after 2000 years of supposed "expulsion"?
Do they not believe that they are the only legitimate owners, because their tribal god presumably told them that Palestine forever belongs to this self-defined and self-chosen group of people?

Bravo!

 

[Challenger]

And here we have another Nazi that uses Zionist out of context because they know any other term would show they were Jew Haters and want to rid the world of the Jews. The European Jews expelled no one at all that was not an enemy of the state, and they only did what every other nation did around that time. To single out the Jews as you are is rabid racism that we are supposed to have eliminated from our world, and here it is still blooming.

Israel actually showed considerable restraint compared to most after WWII when it came to forced population transfers.

Often machine gunning or firing mortars at fleeing civillian refugees to "encourage" them on their way was very restrained.

 

[Challenger]

There would also be peace in the region if the Palestinians accepted the Jewish culture and integrated into Jewish society.

The Zionists won't let them. THAT's the problem.

 

[Challenger]

A guiding principle in the concept of self-determination is that the group self-identifies the members of the group. Outsiders don't get a say.

Yet Zionists continually assert Palestinians are not a people and deny them self-determination. it works for everyone or no-one.

All you are doing here is trying to use science and technology as a way to legitimize a biological racism.

That's what Zionists do, don't they?

 

[montelatici]

And here we have another Nazi that uses Zionist out of context because they know any other term would show they were Jew Haters and want to rid the world of the Jews. The European Jews expelled no one at all that was not an enemy of the state, and they only did what every other nation did around that time. To single out the Jews as you are is rabid racism that we are supposed to have eliminated from our world, and here it is still blooming.

Israel actually showed considerable restraint compared to most after WWII when it came to forced population transfers.

Are you saying that the Zionists have expelled or force transferred fewer natives of territories that they invaded and conquered than the Nazis did with the natives of the territories they invaded and conquered?

On a per capita basis I am not so sure.

 

[Hollie]

And here we have another Nazi that uses Zionist out of context because they know any other term would show they were Jew Haters and want to rid the world of the Jews. The European Jews expelled no one at all that was not an enemy of the state, and they only did what every other nation did around that time. To single out the Jews as you are is rabid racism that we are supposed to have eliminated from our world, and here it is still blooming.

Israel actually showed considerable restraint compared to most after WWII when it came to forced population transfers.

Are you saying that the Zionists have expelled or force transferred fewer natives of territories that they invaded and conquered than the Nazis did with the natives of the territories they invaded and conquered?

On a per capita basis I am not so sure.

I'm afraid your typical ignorance of history is the cause of your befuddlement.

What lands have The Zionists™ invaded and conquered?

 

[montelatici]

And here we have another Nazi that uses Zionist out of context because they know any other term would show they were Jew Haters and want to rid the world of the Jews. The European Jews expelled no one at all that was not an enemy of the state, and they only did what every other nation did around that time. To single out the Jews as you are is rabid racism that we are supposed to have eliminated from our world, and here it is still blooming.

Israel actually showed considerable restraint compared to most after WWII when it came to forced population transfers.

Are you saying that the Zionists have expelled or force transferred fewer natives of territories that they invaded and conquered than the Nazis did with the natives of the territories they invaded and conquered?

On a per capita basis I am not so sure.

I'm afraid your typical ignorance of history is the cause of your befuddlement.

What lands have The Zionists™ invaded and conquered?

The land that they subsequently colonized and then created a Jewish state where once Christians and Muslims lived. But you knew that.

 

[Hollie]

And here we have another Nazi that uses Zionist out of context because they know any other term would show they were Jew Haters and want to rid the world of the Jews. The European Jews expelled no one at all that was not an enemy of the state, and they only did what every other nation did around that time. To single out the Jews as you are is rabid racism that we are supposed to have eliminated from our world, and here it is still blooming.

Israel actually showed considerable restraint compared to most after WWII when it came to forced population transfers.

Are you saying that the Zionists have expelled or force transferred fewer natives of territories that they invaded and conquered than the Nazis did with the natives of the territories they invaded and conquered?

On a per capita basis I am not so sure.

I'm afraid your typical ignorance of history is the cause of your befuddlement.

What lands have The Zionists™ invaded and conquered?

The land that they subsequently colonized and then created a Jewish state where once Christians and Muslims lived. But you knew that.

So obviously, when I corrected you on your continued befuddlement, you were not able to address my comments and thus spammed the thread.

But, we all knew that.

 

[montelatici]

Do you actually know what "befuddlement" means? I think not. Stick to the issues rather than attempting to insult other posters. It doesn't work.

 

[Hollie]

Do you actually know what "befuddlement" means? I think not. Stick to the issues rather than attempting to insult other posters. It doesn't work.

Oh my. Your tender islamo-sensibilities are offended.

You may recall (understanding your continued comatose state), that you were instructed to identify what nation was invaded by Jews.

Are you still too befuddled to address your assigned task?

 

[Shusha]

Are you saying that the Zionists have expelled or force transferred fewer natives of territories that they invaded and conquered than the Nazis did with the natives of the territories they invaded and conquered?

On a per capita basis I am not so sure.

One would have to do considerable research to come up with exact numbers, probably an amount of research that I'm unwilling to go into today. But I can think of all sorts of population transfers which occurred between WWI and WWII and after, and one much later, in which extremely large numbers of people were displaced or expelled or traded: the expulsion of the Germans from Central and Eastern Europe; the expulsion of the Japanese from Korea and China; Poles, Estonians, Latvians from the Soviet Union; Ukraines from Poland; Bulgarians and Greeks and Turks and Hungarians, all switched into the "proper countries"; the massive population transfers between India, Pakistan and Bangladesh; more recently the exchange of the Greek and Turkish Cypriots. And then there is the mess which created and then un-created Yugoslavia.

My point being that it was a time of the dissolution of large empires into smaller groups based on ethnicity and national self-determination. It happened a lot. It wasn't yet considered a crime against humanity. (And frankly, I'm not entirely convinced it should be, but that is a different topic).

The concept was to create ethnically homogeneous nations as a way to end conflict and war between culturally distinct peoples. Israel was one which had government officials encouraging an ethnically diverse nation.

 

[Shusha]

The land that they subsequently colonized and then created a Jewish state where once Christians and Muslims lived. But you knew that.

Um. Christians and Muslims still live there.

 

[Phoenall]

And here we have another Nazi that uses Zionist out of context because they know any other term would show they were Jew Haters and want to rid the world of the Jews. The European Jews expelled no one at all that was not an enemy of the state, and they only did what every other nation did around that time. To single out the Jews as you are is rabid racism that we are supposed to have eliminated from our world, and here it is still blooming.

Israel actually showed considerable restraint compared to most after WWII when it came to forced population transfers.

Often machine gunning or firing mortars at fleeing civillian refugees to "encourage" them on their way was very restrained.

And of course you have verifiable evidence of this taking place other than pallywood videos and islamonazi propaganda sources

 

[Phoenall]

There would also be peace in the region if the Palestinians accepted the Jewish culture and integrated into Jewish society.

The Zionists won't let them. THAT's the problem.

Strange that as I am a Zionist and I would welcome that happening, so once again destroying your racist claims

 

[Phoenall]

A guiding principle in the concept of self-determination is that the group self-identifies the members of the group. Outsiders don't get a say.

Yet Zionists continually assert Palestinians are not a people and deny them self-determination. it works for everyone or no-one.

All you are doing here is trying to use science and technology as a way to legitimize a biological racism.

That's what Zionists do, don't they?

No wrong again we assert that the Palestinians are the Jews who held the title for 1,900 years until the Russians told Arafat to find a name for his terrorist organisation to make it credible


No We use science and technology to destroy your false claims, which we seem to do quite regular going on the number of times you screech hasbara or zionism

 

[Phoenall]

And here we have another Nazi that uses Zionist out of context because they know any other term would show they were Jew Haters and want to rid the world of the Jews. The European Jews expelled no one at all that was not an enemy of the state, and they only did what every other nation did around that time. To single out the Jews as you are is rabid racism that we are supposed to have eliminated from our world, and here it is still blooming.

Israel actually showed considerable restraint compared to most after WWII when it came to forced population transfers.

Are you saying that the Zionists have expelled or force transferred fewer natives of territories that they invaded and conquered than the Nazis did with the natives of the territories they invaded and conquered?

On a per capita basis I am not so sure.

And the evidence shows that only 50,000 enemy militia were actually expelled under international law of the time. The rest have admitted they left freely

 

[Phoenall]

And here we have another Nazi that uses Zionist out of context because they know any other term would show they were Jew Haters and want to rid the world of the Jews. The European Jews expelled no one at all that was not an enemy of the state, and they only did what every other nation did around that time. To single out the Jews as you are is rabid racism that we are supposed to have eliminated from our world, and here it is still blooming.

Israel actually showed considerable restraint compared to most after WWII when it came to forced population transfers.

Are you saying that the Zionists have expelled or force transferred fewer natives of territories that they invaded and conquered than the Nazis did with the natives of the territories they invaded and conquered?

On a per capita basis I am not so sure.

I'm afraid your typical ignorance of history is the cause of your befuddlement.

What lands have The Zionists™ invaded and conquered?

The land that they subsequently colonized and then created a Jewish state where once Christians and Muslims lived. But you knew that.

But it was theirs by international law, so when did the defeated arabs get to own this land

 

[Challenger]

Are you saying that the Zionists have expelled or force transferred fewer natives of territories that they invaded and conquered than the Nazis did with the natives of the territories they invaded and conquered?

On a per capita basis I am not so sure.

One would have to do considerable research to come up with exact numbers, probably an amount of research that I'm unwilling to go into today. But I can think of all sorts of population transfers which occurred between WWI and WWII and after, and one much later, in which extremely large numbers of people were displaced or expelled or traded: the expulsion of the Germans from Central and Eastern Europe; the expulsion of the Japanese from Korea and China; Poles, Estonians, Latvians from the Soviet Union; Ukraines from Poland; Bulgarians and Greeks and Turks and Hungarians, all switched into the "proper countries"; the massive population transfers between India, Pakistan and Bangladesh; more recently the exchange of the Greek and Turkish Cypriots. And then there is the mess which created and then un-created Yugoslavia.

My point being that it was a time of the dissolution of large empires into smaller groups based on ethnicity and national self-determination. It happened a lot. It wasn't yet considered a crime against humanity. (And frankly, I'm not entirely convinced it should be, but that is a different topic).

The concept was to create ethnically homogeneous nations as a way to end conflict and war between culturally distinct peoples. Israel was one which had government officials encouraging an ethnically diverse nation.

Unfortunately these population transfers we carried out as a result of agreements or treaties between the victorious powers or the governments concerned. Zionist Isreal carried out ethnic cleansing as part of it's military operations to create a Jewish majority state. There was never any intention to create an ethnically diverse nation, that has been the problem from the outset with Zionism.