The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?

[Phoenall]

Are you saying that the Zionists have expelled or force transferred fewer natives of territories that they invaded and conquered than the Nazis did with the natives of the territories they invaded and conquered?

On a per capita basis I am not so sure.

One would have to do considerable research to come up with exact numbers, probably an amount of research that I'm unwilling to go into today. But I can think of all sorts of population transfers which occurred between WWI and WWII and after, and one much later, in which extremely large numbers of people were displaced or expelled or traded: the expulsion of the Germans from Central and Eastern Europe; the expulsion of the Japanese from Korea and China; Poles, Estonians, Latvians from the Soviet Union; Ukraines from Poland; Bulgarians and Greeks and Turks and Hungarians, all switched into the "proper countries"; the massive population transfers between India, Pakistan and Bangladesh; more recently the exchange of the Greek and Turkish Cypriots. And then there is the mess which created and then un-created Yugoslavia.

My point being that it was a time of the dissolution of large empires into smaller groups based on ethnicity and national self-determination. It happened a lot. It wasn't yet considered a crime against humanity. (And frankly, I'm not entirely convinced it should be, but that is a different topic).

The concept was to create ethnically homogeneous nations as a way to end conflict and war between culturally distinct peoples. Israel was one which had government officials encouraging an ethnically diverse nation.

Unfortunately these population transfers we carried out as a result of agreements or treaties between the victorious powers or the governments concerned. Zionist Isreal carried out ethnic cleansing as part of it's military operations to create a Jewish majority state. There was never any intention to create an ethnically diverse nation, that has been the problem from the outset with Zionism.

Once again rat boy shows he does not have a valid argument to counter the reality as he peppers his post with the term Zionist used out of context and in in the islamonazi racist manner. The fact is the Israelis cleared enemy combatants out from behind the front line as allowed under international law then and now.

 

[Shusha]

Unfortunately these population transfers we carried out as a result of agreements or treaties between the victorious powers or the governments concerned. Zionist Isreal carried out ethnic cleansing as part of it's military operations to create a Jewish majority state. There was never any intention to create an ethnically diverse nation, that has been the problem from the outset with Zionism.

Your point being, what? That it was fine for all these other nations to exchange populations, but you assign evil intent to Israel for doing what the rest of them did?

ALL of those nations wanted ethnically homogeneous States. Why has it not been a problem for all those other States?

 

[Challenger]

Why has it not been a problem for all those other States?

No treaty or agreement. That makes the Zionist actions crimes against humanity.

 

[Shusha]

Why has it not been a problem for all those other States?

No treaty or agreement. That makes the Zionist actions crimes against humanity.

You mean a treaty which outlined the population transfers or just general end-of-conflict treaties?

 

[jillian]

Why has it not been a problem for all those other States?

No treaty or agreement. That makes the Zionist actions crimes against humanity.

what treaty or agreement moved jews out of iran? out of Russia? out of Belarus?

shut up idiot.

 

[fanger]

In fact, the effort to bring Jews to Israel is at the core of Zionist thinking, and widely supported by the Israeli Jewish population. Aliyah, or "ascension", the Hebrew word for Jewish immigration, connotes an almost-divine obligation on Jews to live in Israel.

Former Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, it should be remembered, used even more inflammatory language in 2004, warning that France was in the grip of "the wildest anti-semitism", and calling on Jews to flee France.

"If I have to advise our brothers in France, I'll tell them one thing - move to Israel, as early as possible. I say that to Jews all around the world, but there [in France] I think it's a must and they have to move immediately."

Financial inducements

Similarly, Israel has tried to exploit economic crises in countries with significant Jewish populations to encourage them to emigrate. In 2001, when the Argentinian financial system collapsed, Israel offered each Jew there a $20,000 cheque - should they make a new life in Israel.

That was in addition to the inducements Israel offers as standard to Jewish immigrants: large sums of cash, tax breaks, subsidies, as well as special access to grants and loans.

The extraordinary lengths Israel is prepared to go to encourage Jews to come to Israel - including, it seems, even actions designed to fuel anti-semitism - were suggested by Raanan Rein, a history professor at Tel Aviv University, in a book on Israel's relations with Argentina.
Netanyahu defies French pleas to push Zionist agenda

shut up idiot.

 

[Challenger]

Why has it not been a problem for all those other States?

No treaty or agreement. That makes the Zionist actions crimes against humanity.

what treaty or agreement moved jews out of iran? out of Russia? out of Belarus?

shut up idiot.

You tell me, I thought they all voluntarily emigrated to the "Zionist Paradise" because the USSR was "anti-Israel" at the time. Iran never expelled her Jewish population, quite the opposite as I recall.

 

[fanger]

Iran's Jews on life inside Israel's 'enemy state': 'We feel secure and happy'
"Benjamin Netanyahu and the anti-Semites need each other: they supply each other with what they need – intolerance and hatred." This is the vehemently held view of Ciamak Morsadegh, a newly elected Iranian parliamentarian. "It is an unspoken alliance which suits them, but it causes great harm to the rest of us." The MP is Jewish, representing the largest Jewish community in the Middle East outside Israel, one that is growing in size while those in almost all other Muslim countries in the region have shrunk severely or disappeared altogether – largely due to persecution.

Israel has long portrayed Iran as an implacable enemy, an existential threat, even. In recent years, Netanyahu's government mobilised its international backers in the US Congress and elsewhere to lobby fiercely against the nuclear deal between Tehran and world powers, with dire warnings about a dangerous regime acquiring weapons of mass destruction. The campaign failed. The nuclear agreement was signed. And the resultant easing of international sanctions – providing a road to recovery for the country's ailing economy – was a key factor in the sweeping gains by the reformists and their allies in the recent elections; a victory that should pave the way for great changes in Iranian politics and history.

Morsadegh, a 50-year-old hospital surgeon, is one of the candidates who benefited in the liberal swing to get re-elected. He is the only Jew in the Iranian parliament, the Majlis, winning the seat reserved for the Jewish community against two other candidates. "The fact is, Iran is a place where Jews feel secure and we are happy to be here," he says. "We are proud to be Iranian. I know this doesn't follow the Zionist script, but this is the reality."

But are his expressions of patriotism and castigation of Israel intended to ensure self-preservation in the Islamic Republic? "No one forces the Jews to stay here," says Morsadegh, a large figure, full of energy, at his office in the Sapir Medical Centre in Tehran. "The Israelis offer money to Jewish people to emigrate to Israel, but we choose to stay.
Iran's Jews on life inside Israel's 'enemy state'

 

[Phoenall]

Why has it not been a problem for all those other States?

No treaty or agreement. That makes the Zionist actions crimes against humanity.

No treaty with India, and the muslims forced the issue. No treaty with Yugoslavia and the muslims forced the issue. No treaty with Somalia and the muslims forced the issue.

So rat boy how is it that muslims can force a population exchange when they want a muslim nation and you don't see any problems with that. Yet you see a problem when it is the Jews wanting to safeguard the citizens of Israel

 

[Phoenall]

In fact, the effort to bring Jews to Israel is at the core of Zionist thinking, and widely supported by the Israeli Jewish population. Aliyah, or "ascension", the Hebrew word for Jewish immigration, connotes an almost-divine obligation on Jews to live in Israel.

Former Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, it should be remembered, used even more inflammatory language in 2004, warning that France was in the grip of "the wildest anti-semitism", and calling on Jews to flee France.

"If I have to advise our brothers in France, I'll tell them one thing - move to Israel, as early as possible. I say that to Jews all around the world, but there [in France] I think it's a must and they have to move immediately."

Financial inducements

Similarly, Israel has tried to exploit economic crises in countries with significant Jewish populations to encourage them to emigrate. In 2001, when the Argentinian financial system collapsed, Israel offered each Jew there a $20,000 cheque - should they make a new life in Israel.

That was in addition to the inducements Israel offers as standard to Jewish immigrants: large sums of cash, tax breaks, subsidies, as well as special access to grants and loans.

The extraordinary lengths Israel is prepared to go to encourage Jews to come to Israel - including, it seems, even actions designed to fuel anti-semitism - were suggested by Raanan Rein, a history professor at Tel Aviv University, in a book on Israel's relations with Argentina.
Netanyahu defies French pleas to push Zionist agenda

shut up idiot.

Islamonazi propaganda is the best you can do. Maybe you should think about practising what you preach

 

[Phoenall]

Why has it not been a problem for all those other States?

No treaty or agreement. That makes the Zionist actions crimes against humanity.

what treaty or agreement moved jews out of iran? out of Russia? out of Belarus?

shut up idiot.

You tell me, I thought they all voluntarily emigrated to the "Zionist Paradise" because the USSR was "anti-Israel" at the time. Iran never expelled her Jewish population, quite the opposite as I recall.

Yes they imprisoned their Jews because so many had already been forced to leave by the regime. They could not afford the bad publicity that was a result of the forced emigration, so banned them from leaving. Look at the population prior to 1948 and then look at the declining population since 1948.

 

[Phoenall]

Iran's Jews on life inside Israel's 'enemy state': 'We feel secure and happy'
"Benjamin Netanyahu and the anti-Semites need each other: they supply each other with what they need – intolerance and hatred." This is the vehemently held view of Ciamak Morsadegh, a newly elected Iranian parliamentarian. "It is an unspoken alliance which suits them, but it causes great harm to the rest of us." The MP is Jewish, representing the largest Jewish community in the Middle East outside Israel, one that is growing in size while those in almost all other Muslim countries in the region have shrunk severely or disappeared altogether – largely due to persecution.

Israel has long portrayed Iran as an implacable enemy, an existential threat, even. In recent years, Netanyahu's government mobilised its international backers in the US Congress and elsewhere to lobby fiercely against the nuclear deal between Tehran and world powers, with dire warnings about a dangerous regime acquiring weapons of mass destruction. The campaign failed. The nuclear agreement was signed. And the resultant easing of international sanctions – providing a road to recovery for the country's ailing economy – was a key factor in the sweeping gains by the reformists and their allies in the recent elections; a victory that should pave the way for great changes in Iranian politics and history.

Morsadegh, a 50-year-old hospital surgeon, is one of the candidates who benefited in the liberal swing to get re-elected. He is the only Jew in the Iranian parliament, the Majlis, winning the seat reserved for the Jewish community against two other candidates. "The fact is, Iran is a place where Jews feel secure and we are happy to be here," he says. "We are proud to be Iranian. I know this doesn't follow the Zionist script, but this is the reality."

But are his expressions of patriotism and castigation of Israel intended to ensure self-preservation in the Islamic Republic? "No one forces the Jews to stay here," says Morsadegh, a large figure, full of energy, at his office in the Sapir Medical Centre in Tehran. "The Israelis offer money to Jewish people to emigrate to Israel, but we choose to stay.
Iran's Jews on life inside Israel's 'enemy state'

And you don't show his family with the guns to their heads round the back, which is what the Jews who manage to escape tell the world. The interviews are stunted and scripted as shown by the occasional trick question asked

 

[Shusha]

Why has it not been a problem for all those other States?

No treaty or agreement. That makes the Zionist actions crimes against humanity.

No treaty with India, and the muslims forced the issue. No treaty with Yugoslavia and the muslims forced the issue. No treaty with Somalia and the muslims forced the issue.

So rat boy how is it that muslims can force a population exchange when they want a muslim nation and you don't see any problems with that. Yet you see a problem when it is the Jews wanting to safeguard the citizens of Israel

I know. I wonder what kind of treaties he/she is reading. There was a treaty to ethnically cleanse Korea of the Japanese? And a treaty to remove all Jews from pretty much every Arab/Muslim country? And treaties outlining the removal of 15 million Germans from Central and Eastern Europe? There was a treaty to switch Greek and Turkish Cypriots?

And Challenger isn't even brave enough to touch upon the CONCEPT I am bringing up -- which was that, in the context of the time, creating homogeneous States based on distinct cultures was seen as normal and necessary in order to create peace.

 

[theliq]

Why has it not been a problem for all those other States?

No treaty or agreement. That makes the Zionist actions crimes against humanity.

what treaty or agreement moved jews out of iran? out of Russia? out of Belarus?

shut up idiot.

You tell me, I thought they all voluntarily emigrated to the "Zionist Paradise" because the USSR was "anti-Israel" at the time. Iran never expelled her Jewish population, quite the opposite as I recall.

Yes they imprisoned their Jews because so many had already been forced to leave by the regime. They could not afford the bad publicity that was a result of the forced emigration, so banned them from leaving. Look at the population prior to 1948 and then look at the declining population since 1948.

Untrue STATEMENT

 

[theliq]

Why has it not been a problem for all those other States?

No treaty or agreement. That makes the Zionist actions crimes against humanity.

No treaty with India, and the muslims forced the issue. No treaty with Yugoslavia and the muslims forced the issue. No treaty with Somalia and the muslims forced the issue.

So rat boy how is it that muslims can force a population exchange when they want a muslim nation and you don't see any problems with that. Yet you see a problem when it is the Jews wanting to safeguard the citizens of Israel

I know. I wonder what kind of treaties he/she is reading. There was a treaty to ethnically cleanse Korea of the Japanese? And a treaty to remove all Jews from pretty much every Arab/Muslim country? And treaties outlining the removal of 15 million Germans from Central and Eastern Europe? There was a treaty to switch Greek and Turkish Cypriots?

And Challenger isn't even brave enough to touch upon the CONCEPT I am bringing up -- which was that, in the context of the time, creating homogeneous States based on distinct cultures was seen as normal and necessary in order to create peace.

You have Drawn a long and inaccurate Bow here Shusha......Prior to 1948 Thousands of Jewish folk lived and did business in Arab countries....many were forced out after the treatment given to the Palestinians but there are Jewish Communities still in Muslim Countries today.........after 1948 there was a push from the Israeli Government to encourage Jews in Arab Countries to come to Israel(Very noticeable in the huge Moroccan Jewish Community in Israel) so it wasn't that all Jews we kicked out of Muslim Countries.....The previous Iranian President Asabajinidan sic...was the son of a Jewish father and mother who migrated to Iran in the 40's.......How you can mutter the term ''Creating Homogeneous States based on distinct cultures was seen as normal!!!!!!!where Israel are concerned,considering most Palestinians are a Semitic people whereas most Jews in Israel are clearly not'' your comment is debased because of this fact,I suggest you put your brain into gear before proceeding more.....Regards Shusha......steve

 

[Challenger]

And Challenger isn't even brave enough to touch upon the CONCEPT I am bringing up -- which was that, in the context of the time, creating homogeneous States based on distinct cultures was seen as normal and necessary in order to create peace.

Except it wasn't. Forced transfers of populations/ethnic cleansing became illegal in 1946. Prior to that, in most cases, they were carried out with the agreement of the governments concerned.

 

[Phoenall]

Why has it not been a problem for all those other States?

No treaty or agreement. That makes the Zionist actions crimes against humanity.

what treaty or agreement moved jews out of iran? out of Russia? out of Belarus?

shut up idiot.

You tell me, I thought they all voluntarily emigrated to the "Zionist Paradise" because the USSR was "anti-Israel" at the time. Iran never expelled her Jewish population, quite the opposite as I recall.

Yes they imprisoned their Jews because so many had already been forced to leave by the regime. They could not afford the bad publicity that was a result of the forced emigration, so banned them from leaving. Look at the population prior to 1948 and then look at the declining population since 1948.

Untrue STATEMENT

Are you calling the people who escaped that regime and its bloodthirsty actions, as only an islamonazi apologist and propagandist could do

 

[Phoenall]

Why has it not been a problem for all those other States?

No treaty or agreement. That makes the Zionist actions crimes against humanity.

No treaty with India, and the muslims forced the issue. No treaty with Yugoslavia and the muslims forced the issue. No treaty with Somalia and the muslims forced the issue.

So rat boy how is it that muslims can force a population exchange when they want a muslim nation and you don't see any problems with that. Yet you see a problem when it is the Jews wanting to safeguard the citizens of Israel

I know. I wonder what kind of treaties he/she is reading. There was a treaty to ethnically cleanse Korea of the Japanese? And a treaty to remove all Jews from pretty much every Arab/Muslim country? And treaties outlining the removal of 15 million Germans from Central and Eastern Europe? There was a treaty to switch Greek and Turkish Cypriots?

And Challenger isn't even brave enough to touch upon the CONCEPT I am bringing up -- which was that, in the context of the time, creating homogeneous States based on distinct cultures was seen as normal and necessary in order to create peace.

You have Drawn a long and inaccurate Bow here Shusha......Prior to 1948 Thousands of Jewish folk lived and did business in Arab countries....many were forced out after the treatment given to the Palestinians but there are Jewish Communities still in Muslim Countries today.........after 1948 there was a push from the Israeli Government to encourage Jews in Arab Countries to come to Israel(Very noticeable in the huge Moroccan Jewish Community in Israel) so it wasn't that all Jews we kicked out of Muslim Countries.....The previous Iranian President Asabajinidan sic...was the son of a Jewish father and mother who migrated to Iran in the 40's.......How you can mutter the term ''Creating Homogeneous States based on distinct cultures was seen as normal!!!!!!!where Israel are concerned,considering most Palestinians are a Semitic people whereas most Jews in Israel are clearly not'' your comment is debased because of this fact,I suggest you put your brain into gear before proceeding more.....Regards Shusha......steve

Get it right the Jews tried to escape but couldn't as the muslims would not have any slaves to work the land/ And you claim that most Jews in Israel were not semitic is straight out of islamonazi propaganda history, as the vast majority of Jews were from the surrounding area. Even you admit this is the case when you stated they were evicted, illegally, in 1949

 

[Phoenall]

And Challenger isn't even brave enough to touch upon the CONCEPT I am bringing up -- which was that, in the context of the time, creating homogeneous States based on distinct cultures was seen as normal and necessary in order to create peace.

Except it wasn't. Forced transfers of populations/ethnic cleansing became illegal in 1946. Prior to that, in most cases, they were carried out with the agreement of the governments concerned.

Did it then how about a link to the international law saying this was the case ?

Then show what the UN did when the muslims proceeded to force transfers of populations and ethnical cleansing in every nation they infested right up until just last year

 

[Art__Allm]

If a Palestinian mother can't have children and her children are adopted, does that mean they have no claim to be "Palestinian"? After all, the adopted children have no "Palestinian blood" or "ethnic markers".

What are you talking about?

Palestinian do not need silly excuses, they can prove that they themselves were expelled from their homeland, and that happened not 2000 years ago, but after 1948. But the very people that were expelled are not permitted to return to their homeland.

Zionists, who admit that they stem from converts, not from people who were presumably expelled from Palestine 2000 years ago, have the chutzpa and lunacy to say that they are "returning" to Palestine.

A guiding principle in the concept of self-determination is that the group self-identifies the members of the group. Outsiders don't get a say.

Can Roman Catholics from South Korea (ethnic Koreans) "return" to Rome, and kick out the native Italians, whose ancestors lived there for hundreds of years, and who are not Catholics any more?

Is the self-identification of some Roman Catholics with a Korean ethnic background more important than the rights of non-religious native Italians to live in Rome?

Are you kidding?

Oh, and eyeroll at the Khazar conspiracy theory. That has been widely and soundly debunked.

Show me any scientific article that debunks the finding of the Israeli scientist and expert in his filed Eran Elhaik.

“All Eurasian Jewish communities are closer to Caucasus populations,” he writes, with Central European Jews closer to Italian non-Jews as the exception. Not one of the eight evaluated Jewish populations were closer to Levant populations.

Highlight: Out of Khazaria—Evidence for “Jewish Genome” Lacking
The Missing Link of Jewish European Ancestry: Contrasting the Rhineland and the Khazarian Hypotheses

Thank you.