The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?

[Sixties Fan]

Lots of Palestinians worked in Arabia in the 1950s. They were called Palestinians.

But they never said that they were not ARABS. From Arabia.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Redirect Notice

Conquering other people's territory does not make them indigenous of all of the area conquered.

You simply will not learn.

 

[Open Bolt]

All of the above has been debunked.

I have not heard about this. Do you have a cite?

 

[Sixties Fan]

I have not heard about this. Do you have a cite?

Just check who runs those sites.

Who are these Drs who have done the study?
Are they following science or what anti Israel people want them to say?

 

[Sixties Fan]

I have not heard about this. Do you have a cite?

May I ask you why do you want the Jews and Palestinians to be related?

You mentioned before that both are at fault.

Does wanting an end to the conflict and a want for peace, behind your beliefs?

 

[Open Bolt]

May I ask you why do you want the Jews and Palestinians to be related?

It's not a matter of what I want. I just go where the facts lead.

You mentioned before that both are at fault.

Actually I said that neither side was at fault (in regards to who is to blame for the Israelis and Palestinians never being able to reach agreement on a two-state solution).

Does wanting an end to the conflict and a want for peace, behind your beliefs?

No. I just believe what the science says.

Who are these Drs who have done the study?

Michael Hammer, PhD | Department of Neurology

neurology.arizona.edu

 

[Sixties Fan]

It's not a matter of what I want. I just go where the facts lead.

(You are getting your facts from the wrong sources.)

Actually I said that neither side was at fault (in regards to who is to blame for the Israelis and Palestinians never being able to reach agreement on a two-state solution).

(One side is at fault. The Arab Muslims and Christians who cannot stand that the Jews have slipped away from their control and gained sovereignty over any part of the Jewish ancient homeland which too many Muslims want to believe is part of Islam, because Islam conquered that area. Many Muslims are still wanting to take back Spain, Vienna, and any other territory once conquered by Islam )

No. I just believe what the science says.

Neither one of your sources is science. The first one, Misinai, was just "hoping" to prove that both were related to use it as cause to end the war.
He seems to be a Jew who is against the existence of Israel. He embraces the idea that all Jews were converted to Islam after the Muslim invasion. Not so.

"The Times recently carried this unusual report on an Israeli Jew (Tsvi Misinai, a retired computer expert) who’s hoping to prove that Palestinians are descended from Jews. Apparently, he thinks that proving this will help to stop the bloodshed."

He proved nothing. He wants to believe

The second one, by Harry Ostrer. If you do the proper research about him, he did not want to show his research to anyone. That is a red flag that something is not right.

Elhaik has criticized Ostrer's explanations for Jewish demographic history and Ostrer being unwilling to share his data with other researchers, "unless research includes novelty and strength of the proposal, non-overlap with current or planned activities, and non-defamatory nature toward the Jewish people."

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‘Jews a Race’ Genetic Theory Comes Under Fierce Attack by DNA Expert

Scientists usually don’t call each other “liars” and “frauds.” But that’s how Johns Hopkins University post-doctoral researcher Eran Elhaik describes a group of widely respected geneticists, including Harry Ostrer, professor of pathology and genetics at Yeshiva University’s Albert Einstein...

forward.com

Michael Hammer, PhD | Department of Neurology

neurology.arizona.edu

You wish to go on believing that Arabs and Jews are the same, or related, or almost, you go ahead.

We know who we are, where we come from and our history.

And all Arabs know very well where they are indigenous of, and how related they are not to the Jews.


Arabs know very well, that they are only claiming a relation to the Jews and indigenous status to Canaan since 1948, when the Arabs lost the war against the Jews to destroy the new State of Israel.

Too many people have suddenly, since 1948, decided to rewrite the history of the Jews, and especially that of the Arabs who ended up giving themselves the nationality of Palestinians in 1964n by Arafat and the KGB.

History does not work that way.

Manipulating History for Political Purposes: Narratives

Aside from the topical and pragmatic issues on the negotiating table between Israel and the Palestinians – there is a far deeper discussion that is not taking place in the negotiating room but in the international arena.

www.israelnationalnews.com

 

[Open Bolt]

Neither one of your sources is science.

The articles are about research produced by scientists and published in peer reviewed journals.

The first one, Misinai, was just "hoping" to prove that both were related to use it as cause to end the war.

The first article only mentions Misinai in passing as a way to introduce the subject. The article is about two studies, one from the University of Arizona and one from Hebrew University in Jerusalem.

He seems to be a Jew who is against the existence of Israel. He embraces the idea that all Jews were converted to Islam after the Muslim invasion. Not so.

The Misinai guy is indeed wrong. The Jews and Palestinians separated much earlier, during the Bronze Age.

Perhaps the Palestinians were one of the Iron Age neighbors of the two Israeli kingdoms. As I recall, the Moabites, Ammonites, and Edomites were also descended from the Canaanites.

The second one, by Harry Ostrer. If you do the proper research about him, he did not want to show his research to anyone. That is a red flag that something is not right.

Elhaik has criticized Ostrer's explanations for Jewish demographic history and Ostrer being unwilling to share his data with other researchers, "unless research includes novelty and strength of the proposal, non-overlap with current or planned activities, and non-defamatory nature toward the Jewish people."

‘Jews a Race’ Genetic Theory Comes Under Fierce Attack by DNA Expert

Scientists usually don’t call each other “liars” and “frauds.” But that’s how Johns Hopkins University post-doctoral researcher Eran Elhaik describes a group of widely respected geneticists, including Harry Ostrer, professor of pathology and genetics at Yeshiva University’s Albert Einstein...

forward.com

This Elhaik guy claims that DNA shows that Jews are from Europe and not from the Middle East at all.

I'd want to see other reputable scientists confirm such findings before I believed a claim so extraordinary, and also see a good explanation reconciling this claim with the historical and archaeological evidence showing that the Jewish people came from the West Bank region.

 

[Open Bolt]

Most Palestinians are descended from Jewish farmers who didn't leave in the first century.

This is more of a nitpick than a contradiction, but the Palestinians separated from the Jews much earlier, during the Bronze Age.

Both the Jews and the Palestinians descended from the Canaanites, but they were already separate peoples by the time the Iron Age rolled around.

Perhaps the Palestinians are descended from the Ammonites, Moabites, and/or Edomites (which all descended from the Canaanites just like the two Jewish kingdoms did, but then formed their own separate Iron Age cultures neighboring the two Israeli kingdoms).

 

[surada]

This is more of a nitpick than a contradiction, but the Palestinians separated from the Jews much earlier, during the Bronze Age.

Both the Jews and the Palestinians descended from the Canaanites, but they were already separate peoples by the time the Iron Age rolled around.

Perhaps the Palestinians are descended from the Ammonites, Moabites, and/or Edomites (which all descended from the Canaanites just like the two Jewish kingdoms did, but then formed their own separate Iron Age cultures neighboring the two Israeli kingdoms).

Ben Gurion said they were descendants of Jewish farmers who stayed and tended the Roman terraces and aqueducts.. and ancient olive trees. Shlomo Sands said the same thing. If you believe the Torah or in my case the Old Testament they were half brothers born to Hagar and Keturah . Sadly, there's no excuse for the past 80 years. Many Jews returned to Palestine when they were expelled from Spain and Portugal without incident.

 

[Open Bolt]

Ben Gurion said they were descendants of Jewish farmers who stayed and tended the Roman terraces and aqueducts.. and ancient olive trees. Shlomo Sands said the same thing.

DNA says the Palestinians are descendants of the Canaanites just like the Jews are, but that they had already diverged into separate cultures by the dawn of the Iron Age.

Sadly, there's no excuse for the past 80 years.

Israel has no choice but to defend themselves when people attack them.

 

[surada]

Conquering other people's territory does not make them indigenous of all of the area conquered.

You simply will not learn.

Arabs have been in Palestine since Abraham. Remember, Moses and Abraham had Arab wives.

 

[surada]

DNA says the Palestinians are descendants of the Canaanites just like the Jews are, but that they had already diverged into separate cultures by the dawn of the Iron Age.



Israel has no choice but to defend themselves when people attack them.

Read Zionist Aspirations in Palestine... Written in 1920. The Jewish refugees didn't treat them right.

 

[rylah]

Arabs have been in Palestine since Abraham. Remember, Moses and Abraham had Arab wives.

The earliest historic record mentioning Arabs,
is only in 9th century BCE, and outside the Levant.

No one heard of any "Arabs" yet at the time of Avraham Avinu and Mosheh Rabbenu A"H.
So the only reason Arab supremacists resort to this lame revisionism, is because even
they have given up on the "Palestinian nation" scheme, being anything other than
another Arab colony. So now they're left with stealing the identity of greater
civilizations before them, as a lame excuse for Arab imperialism.

 

[rylah]

Read Zionist Aspirations in Palestine... Written in 1920. The Jewish refugees didn't treat them right.

How should have they treated them,
after the local Jewish community was expelled
from all their holy cities during the Arab pogroms?

They have no one to blame but themselves both for
initiating Zionism in response, and then getting defeated.

 

[rylah]

Jews are not a race. Just a religion.

See, that 'either-or' fallacy to frame Jews - simply doesn't work.

If we agree it's not race, then how can it be 'just a religion'
when Jews can be both 'religious' and 'secular'?

....tribe, nation, civilization....

 

[surada]

See, that 'either-or' fallacy to frame Jews - simply doesn't work.

If we agree it's not race, then how can it be 'just a religion'
when Jews can be both 'religious' and 'secular'?

....tribe, nation, civilization....

They call themselves Jews.

 

[surada]

Y

How should have they treated them,
after the local Jewish community was expelled
from all their holy cities during the Arab pogroms?

They have no one to blame but themselves both for
initiating Zionism in response, and then getting defeated.

You haven't read what the refugees did.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Y You haven't read what the refugees did.

Have you read what the Arabs did before any of that?

 

[surada]

Have you read what the Arabs did before any of that?

Jews were a very small minority in Palestine. See the census of 1870 and they didn't count the Bedouin. The ottomans left them alone. It was sleepy and apolitical with the three groups mostly governing themselves. When the European Zionists arrived most were Socialists and they intended to expell the Arabs whether Christian or Muslim. They looked down on the Arabs. They were very nationalistic like the Nazis had been towards them when they revoked Jewish citizenship.