The Nuking of Nagasaki: Even More Immoral and Unnecessary than Hiroshima

Unkotare

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“It was a mistake.... [the scientists] had this toy and they wanted to try it out, so they dropped it.” —Adm. William “Bull” Halsey
 

Unkotare

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"The record is quite clear: From the perspective of an overwhelming number of key contemporary leaders in the US military, the dropping of atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki was not a matter of military necessity. American intelligence had broken the Japanese codes, knew the Japanese government was trying to negotiate surrender through Moscow, and had long advised that the expected early August Russian declaration of war, along with assurances that Japan’s Emperor would be allowed to stay as a powerless figurehead, would bring surrender long before the first step in a November US invasion, three months later, could begin. "
 

Mushroom

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We didn't have a fifth bomb or a fourth bomb.
Wrong, we did. The components for both were either on Tinian, or enroute when the war ended. They were preparing the pit for final assembly of #5, and stopped when the war ended.

Here, this is something amazing. It's known as a "reference":


And as you can see, our stockpile at the end of 1945 was 2 completed warheads (bombs 3 and 4). And in 1946 we started our testing at the Bikini Atol. In 1946 we detonated 3 atomic bombs, and still expanded our inventory to 9 by the end of the year. That makes a total of 15 bombs built in less than 2 years. The last year at peace when they were no longer needed for the battlefield.

In fact, the first 2 bombs were the same Fat Man bombs that were at Tinian when the war ended. The 3rd was Bomb 5, where they finished the assembly early in 1946 and sent it there for testing. We already knew by then that the implosion plutonium bomb was the way of the future, they were faster and easier to produce and were more effective than the uranium gun design.

Now kindly provide your reference proving we did not have 2 more bombs. Even the official inventories say we did.
 

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Japan was worse than the Nazis, with their sort of weird racist imperial worship of a man god. And don't forget to mention special UNIT 731. Or the rape of Nanking. The mass murders and atrocities the Japanese committed. Lets not forget that America tried to stop them by embargoing them and that's why the Japanese choose to attack us on December 7th 1941.
Only superficially.

Japan was already planning on going after the Dutch East Indies, for their oil and rubber. And then they planned on going after even more territory. But the problem was that there was this large group of islands sitting right in the middle of their supply line known as the Philippines.

And those islands were a huge outpost of US military power, literally standing on their throat if they made such a move. Part of their goal of the GSEACPS was to become self-sufficient in all natural resources, and that meant attacking the Dutch East Indies. And they were not going to risk doing that, then having the US jump into the war at a later date and cut their supply lines.

The embargos (oil and steel) only forced them to move faster, but those plans were already in place before then. That was simply an excuse, and a very bad one. They were already working on ways to make their torpedoes work in shallow waters before the embargos even started. The planning for the invasions of the Philippines and attack on Pearl Harbor started in January 1941, the embargo did not start until July 1941.

Most people for some reason equate an embargo (refusal to sell) with a blockade (refusing to let anybody sell). Logically, Japan attacking us for refusing to sell them our oil and steel makes about as much sense as if we had attacked the OPEC nations in 1973 for refusing to sell us oil.
 

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The problem with your comment is that you fail to realize that Joe doesn't give a shit about actual history. All he cares about is trying to rewrite and then convincing people to believe is insane bullshit.
Oh, I do realize that. The same with Poopy, he will repeatedly post the same garbage over and over again, post things that have nothing to do with anything, then insult anybody that does not agree with him.

Who I am actually posting for is those that might think about believing their coprolite. To show them what civil and rational posting is like, and provide them references so they do not simply have to accept my word, but will hopefully take a look at the evidence for themselves.

Somebody challenges me, I reply civilly and if I had not done so before provide references. This is to show that I do not just make stuff up like some do, but take the topic seriously and respond respectfully. I see absolutely nothing wrong with being challenged for a reference. And while I know the Poopies and Joe's of the world will never provide their own or respond actually on topic or provide proof to back up their claims, I do so in the hope that others will see which side is more credible in this debate.

And they do not even try to debate, they argue. Lies, insults, things taken out of context, those are the tactics of a bully. And I honestly chuckle when they just repeat the same things over and over and over again, and either do not understand or do not care that what they are saying does not even validate their claim. I honestly think they are aware of that, but simply do not care. They are Net Bullies, and think what they say matters.

And I enjoy showing how little anything that they say matters.
 

Unkotare

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...And no, FDR did not "reject"...
He most certainly did. Have some self-respect and drop the fucking hero-worship. That blood-thirsty, racist, arrogant son of a bitch is not worth it.

MacArthur penned a 40-page letter to fdr himself outlining the peace overtures that he personally had learned of. This was even before Yalta. The scumbag fdr tossed it aside saying “MacArthur is our greatest general and our poorest politician.” Human life - of American servicemen or civilians anywhere - meant nothing more to him than a political game piece.

.
 

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OK, interesting find.

For those that do not know, the link is of a Top Secret coded message from their Diplomatic Corps we decoded, which was highly classified and only for internal use. And indeed it does discuss the possible surrender, but that Potsdam was completely unacceptable.

Now, once again, where did they make this announcement to the world?

This can not be taken seriously at all, it was an internal communication, not something they sent to anybody other than themselves. And WWII is full of bogus communications. We ourselves did this, sending out messages from our Pacific outposts, then because we had broken Japanese codes read what they said about our communications to determine their code names for various places.

That is how we were able to do what we did at Midway. We sent a message which claimed their water purification equipment was broken and water was needed. We were then able to intercept a message telling the Japanese command to prepare their invasion fleet with more water purification systems, therefore we knew where the attack was going to happen.

There was no problem with the water, we sent a series of messages for a week, with each of our islands reporting various problems. We knew an attack was coming, and by reading their mail we were able to figure out which island was the target based on how they talked about it.

And why would anybody think that Japan would be any less fanatical in fighting than Germany was? They fought on to the bitter end, their entire nation utterly destroyed and still did not surrender. Does anybody think Japan would have been different?

Displaying a classified memo that we broke is nothing even close to their telling anybody that they were willing to surrender, or willing to negotiate. In fact, in other parts of that same decrypted memo it talks about the Japanese claiming they will "fight to the bitter end" for Shanghai, and refused to even consider allowing the civilians to evacuate or to allow a safety zone for them to go to in order to avoid the fighting.

Does this in any way sound like the actions of a country about to surrender? It is kind of like Dr. Strangelove if this is to be taken seriously.

Dr. Strangelove: Of course, the whole point of a Doomsday Machine is lost, if you *keep* it a *secret*! Why didn't you tell the world, eh?

Even a comedy gets the fallacy of your claim. What is the point of attempting to surrender, if you keep it a secret and do not bother to tell anybody you want to surrender?
 

gipper

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...And no, FDR did not "reject"...
He most certainly did. Have some self-respect and drop the fucking hero-worship. That blood-thirsty, racist, arrogant son of a bitch is not worth it.

MacArthur penned a 40-page letter to fdr himself outlining the peace overtures that he personally had learned of. This was even before Yalta. The scumbag fdr tossed it aside saying “MacArthur is our greatest general and our poorest politician.” Human life - of American servicemen or civilians anywhere - meant nothing more to him than a political game piece.

.
Great post, which is why the American imperialists ignored it.

How many threads must we make that expose the treachery and deceit of Stalin’s Stooge and Dirty Harry, before the American imperialists accept the truth? I suspect they never will.

The American imperialist wants to believe WWII was the “Good War,” as they were told (really indoctrinated) in grade school. They can’t accept the truth. It’s too painful for them.

If there’s a Hell, FDR and Truman are burning there right next to Hitler, Stalin, and Hirohito.
 

gipper

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OK, interesting find.

For those that do not know, the link is of a Top Secret coded message from their Diplomatic Corps we decoded, which was highly classified and only for internal use. And indeed it does discuss the possible surrender, but that Potsdam was completely unacceptable.

Now, once again, where did they make this announcement to the world?

This can not be taken seriously at all, it was an internal communication, not something they sent to anybody other than themselves. And WWII is full of bogus communications. We ourselves did this, sending out messages from our Pacific outposts, then because we had broken Japanese codes read what they said about our communications to determine their code names for various places.

That is how we were able to do what we did at Midway. We sent a message which claimed their water purification equipment was broken and water was needed. We were then able to intercept a message telling the Japanese command to prepare their invasion fleet with more water purification systems, therefore we knew where the attack was going to happen.

There was no problem with the water, we sent a series of messages for a week, with each of our islands reporting various problems. We knew an attack was coming, and by reading their mail we were able to figure out which island was the target based on how they talked about it.

And why would anybody think that Japan would be any less fanatical in fighting than Germany was? They fought on to the bitter end, their entire nation utterly destroyed and still did not surrender. Does anybody think Japan would have been different?

Displaying a classified memo that we broke is nothing even close to their telling anybody that they were willing to surrender, or willing to negotiate. In fact, in other parts of that same decrypted memo it talks about the Japanese claiming they will "fight to the bitter end" for Shanghai, and refused to even consider allowing the civilians to evacuate or to allow a safety zone for them to go to in order to avoid the fighting.

Does this in any way sound like the actions of a country about to surrender? It is kind of like Dr. Strangelove if this is to be taken seriously.

Dr. Strangelove: Of course, the whole point of a Doomsday Machine is lost, if you *keep* it a *secret*! Why didn't you tell the world, eh?

Even a comedy gets the fallacy of your claim. What is the point of attempting to surrender, if you keep it a secret and do not bother to tell anybody you want to surrender?
You’re not informed. The Japanese tried to surrender several times. All ignored by the blood thirsty FDR and Dirty Harry.

Unconditional surrender resulted in thousands of needless deaths, thanks to the two assholes in the White House.

Funny thing...after Truman mass murdered thousands of defenseless Japanese women and children with the two bombs, he agreed to the only condition Japan had asked for, that the US not hang Hirohito.
 

gipper

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"The record is quite clear: From the perspective of an overwhelming number of key contemporary leaders in the US military, the dropping of atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki was not a matter of military necessity. American intelligence had broken the Japanese codes, knew the Japanese government was trying to negotiate surrender through Moscow, and had long advised that the expected early August Russian declaration of war, along with assurances that Japan’s Emperor would be allowed to stay as a powerless figurehead, would bring surrender long before the first step in a November US invasion, three months later, could begin. "
That’s a great column and clearly blows up the belief the bombs forced Japan to surrender and saved American lives. I Don’t expect the American imperialist to read it.

Here is the full column...
The War Was Won Before Hiroshima—And the Generals Who Dropped the Bomb Knew It
 

JoeB131

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The problem with your comment is that you fail to realize that Joe doesn't give a shit about actual history. All he cares about is trying to rewrite and then convincing people to believe is insane bullshit.
Again, Poodle, I have a degree in history, what do you have. I mean other than Corporate Kneepads.
 

JoeB131

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And as you can see, our stockpile at the end of 1945 was 2 completed warheads (bombs 3 and 4). And in 1946 we started our testing at the Bikini Atol.
That was the point, we didn't have Bombs 3 and 4 until the END of 1945. If Japan had not surrendered. the Russians would have been in Hokkaido and probably Honshu by then, while we were still slogging it out on Kyushu.

The bombs just weren't that big of a game changer. The entry of the USSR into the war, was.
 

Unkotare

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OK, interesting find.

For those that do not know, the link is of a Top Secret coded message from their Diplomatic Corps we decoded, which was highly classified and only for internal use. And indeed it does discuss the possible surrender, but that Potsdam was completely unacceptable.

Now, once again, where did they make this announcement to the world?

This can not be taken seriously at all, it was an internal communication, not something they sent to anybody other than themselves. And WWII is full of bogus communications. We ourselves did this, sending out messages from our Pacific outposts, then because we had broken Japanese codes read what they said about our communications to determine their code names for various places.

That is how we were able to do what we did at Midway. We sent a message which claimed their water purification equipment was broken and water was needed. We were then able to intercept a message telling the Japanese command to prepare their invasion fleet with more water purification systems, therefore we knew where the attack was going to happen.

There was no problem with the water, we sent a series of messages for a week, with each of our islands reporting various problems. We knew an attack was coming, and by reading their mail we were able to figure out which island was the target based on how they talked about it.

And why would anybody think that Japan would be any less fanatical in fighting than Germany was? They fought on to the bitter end, their entire nation utterly destroyed and still did not surrender. Does anybody think Japan would have been different?

Displaying a classified memo that we broke is nothing even close to their telling anybody that they were willing to surrender, or willing to negotiate. In fact, in other parts of that same decrypted memo it talks about the Japanese claiming they will "fight to the bitter end" for Shanghai, and refused to even consider allowing the civilians to evacuate or to allow a safety zone for them to go to in order to avoid the fighting.

Does this in any way sound like the actions of a country about to surrender? It is kind of like Dr. Strangelove if this is to be taken seriously.

Dr. Strangelove: Of course, the whole point of a Doomsday Machine is lost, if you *keep* it a *secret*! Why didn't you tell the world, eh?

Even a comedy gets the fallacy of your claim. What is the point of attempting to surrender, if you keep it a secret and do not bother to tell anybody you want to surrender?
Whoo! Be careful! You're gonna get dizzy from all that spinning!
 

Unkotare

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