The new face of "marriage"

[Andylusion]

Once a society starts becoming degenerate it just becomes more degenerate until the end.

There's little left of the country that's defensible.

Then feel free to leave.

trust me, we will eventually. Every country that's gone down the leftist hell hole, has ended up with all the worth while people leaving. Venezuela, Cuba, Argentina.

Of course you'll blame us for your troubles after we leave, and you are left impoverished. It's the leftist way.

Yep. Mmhmm. Sure...

It's happened before. It will happen again.

 

[Andylusion]

Once a society starts becoming degenerate it just becomes more degenerate until the end.

There's little left of the country that's defensible.

Then feel free to leave.

trust me, we will eventually. Every country that's gone down the leftist hell hole, has ended up with all the worth while people leaving. Venezuela, Cuba, Argentina.

Of course you'll blame us for your troubles after we leave, and you are left impoverished. It's the leftist way.

This fails as a slippery slope fallacy.

Freedom of choice concerning personal relationships is a liberty protected by the Constitution, immune from attack by the state.

That you and most others on the right seek to increase the authority of the state at the expense of individual liberty comes as no surprise.

And it shouldn't. There is a law above the constitution. It's called the Bible.

Again, as a Christian, the constitution is not the ultimate authority in my life. G-d is. And he has a law of his own.

That said.... in this specific case, we are discussing Polygamy. The Bible does not say that Polygamy is wrong.

I can't find anything anywhere, that suggests there is a problem with a man having more than one wife, and quite a few examples that suggest it isn't a problem.

Now you have to marry. These fake 'christian' idiots who screw their girlfriends, clearly wrong. Totally unacceptable, and wrong.

And of course, cheating is also wrong.

But Polygamy itself.... no I don't see any problem with that.

Now, it's not ideal. The Ideal is one man and one woman. But I can not find that it is sinful, or against G-d's law to have more than one wife.

 

[Silhouette]

I told everyone this is the next step, I was told it wouldn't happen by liberals. To confusing to many legal issues. It think they are all wrong it is coming and so is marrying in a sibling . The box is opened and here we go.

The thing is that you can't call something "marriage equality" and declare marriage a "right" (when it's a privelege), and then exclude "some people" from it. You just can't. And the US Supreme Court Justices, each and every one of them, know this..

Since the first day the Governor and AG of California wrongly interpreted Windsor 2013 in order to sieze sovereignty from that state, order under threat, their lowerling county clerks to issue illegal "gay marriage licenses", any person of any walk of life had that same privelege in that state. These three could, for a fact, be as legally married as any gays in CA. What would clerks say? "Sorry but you don't qualify"? How? When the AG and Governor are in full defiance of Constitutional Law in their own state, anyone else can be too. Why not?

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

i'll reserve judgment for 20 years, I want to see how children raised by 3 parents turn out, much like I want to see how children raised by homosexual parents turn out. If they are worse than children raised by heterosexual parents anymore, than this world is doomed before the next century.

 

[Silhouette]

i'll reserve judgment for 20 years, I want to see how children raised by 3 parents turn out, much like I want to see how children raised by homosexual parents turn out. If they are worse than children raised by heterosexual parents anymore, than this world is doomed before the next century.

Yes, let's subject children to a sociological experiment known already to be detrimental to them, without their consent.

Using kids for a neo-cult experiment = child abuse.

Boy Drugged By Lesbian Parents To Be A Girl US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Prince s Trust Survey The Voices of the Voteless Children in Gay Marriage Debate US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

 

[Andylusion]

i'll reserve judgment for 20 years, I want to see how children raised by 3 parents turn out, much like I want to see how children raised by homosexual parents turn out. If they are worse than children raised by heterosexual parents anymore, than this world is doomed before the next century.

Yes, let's subject children to a sociological experiment known already to be detrimental to them, without their consent.

Using kids for a neo-cult experiment = child abuse.

Boy Drugged By Lesbian Parents To Be A Girl US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Prince s Trust Survey The Voices of the Voteless Children in Gay Marriage Debate US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Honestly, this is sad to even have to read. The fact that people in western culture, are now so absolutely ignorant and foolish, that you now need government money, to fund a profession research project, to figure out that........ duh..... children need a proper gender roll model? This is now what we need higher education institutions and professors with Ph.Ds, plus millions in tax payer grants to figure out??!?!

...... ugh....

They keep telling me it's fiction, and not a documentary..... but I just don't believe them.

 

[Katzndogz]

Once a society starts becoming degenerate it just becomes more degenerate until the end.

There's little left of the country that's defensible.

Then feel free to leave.

Or stay and work towards driving it into the dirt then under the dirt.

 

[Katzndogz]

Wait until child custody fights between three parents come to court. I don't like kids but even I take pity on kids ripped up by custody disputes. That's with just two parents. Three parents and three sets of grandparents all fighting it out will make for the most screwed up of screwed up children.

Polygamy made sense at one time. There was no divorce. No one argued about custody. Women died young so if there was going to be child raising there had to be women still alive to do it.

If we are going to bring back old practices and pretend they are useful today let's bring back the duel.

 

[EverCurious]

I'm missing how having 2 mom's and a dad is all that much different for a child than having 2 father's and a mother, or 2 mothers and 2 fathers - AKA step parents.

My own children have 2 mothers and 2 fathers, it has been that way since they were very young when their dad and I decided we had married too young (different discussion) That said, my children are quite fine with it and I'd say they are far better off for our parenting arrangements. All three of them are highly intelligent, not just from gene's, but also from the experience and wisdom all four of us parents have passed on to them; and not just our talents, but our flaws as well. Just off the top of my head I can easily see how they have benefitted from all four of us parents. The multi-parent system worked very well for us, and we have raised three young men who will be successful in life.

You gay haters who portend to care about the well being of these children allow your hatred of a lifestyle to overshadow the potential benefits of the situation for the children in question.

 

[Katzndogz]

I'm missing how having 2 mom's and a dad is all that much different for a child than having 2 father's and a mother, or 2 mothers and 2 fathers - AKA step parents.

My own children have 2 mothers and 2 fathers, it has been that way since they were very young when their dad and I decided we had married too young (different discussion) That said, my children are quite fine with it and I'd say they are far better off for our parenting arrangements. All three of them are highly intelligent, not just from gene's, but also from the experience and wisdom all four of us parents have passed on to them; and not just our talents, but our flaws as well. Just off the top of my head I can easily see how they have benefitted from all four of us parents. The multi-parent system worked very well for us, and we have raised three young men who will be successful in life.

You gay haters who portend to care about the well being of these children allow your hatred of a lifestyle to overshadow the potential benefits of the situation for the children in question.

Step parents have no legal rights.

 

[Andylusion]

I'm missing how having 2 mom's and a dad is all that much different for a child than having 2 father's and a mother, or 2 mothers and 2 fathers - AKA step parents.

My own children have 2 mothers and 2 fathers, it has been that way since they were very young when their dad and I decided we had married too young (different discussion) That said, my children are quite fine with it and I'd say they are far better off for our parenting arrangements. All three of them are highly intelligent, not just from gene's, but also from the experience and wisdom all four of us parents have passed on to them; and not just our talents, but our flaws as well. Just off the top of my head I can easily see how they have benefitted from all four of us parents. The multi-parent system worked very well for us, and we have raised three young men who will be successful in life.

You gay haters who portend to care about the well being of these children allow your hatred of a lifestyle to overshadow the potential benefits of the situation for the children in question.

There is tons of evidence that having step-parents is harmful and detrimental to children. Even in my own family (extended family), having step parents has ruined kids lives. I've seen it. Even where I work, I know several whose kids are ending up train wrecks, because they broke up the family, and have step mothers and step fathers.

If it worked well for you, peachy. But the fact remains that over all, screwing up the family, ruins people. There are some people who are hooked on heroin, and live normal lives. That doesn't change the fact the vast majority it destroys them. Don't live your life based on the exception.

 

[Silhouette]

There is tons of evidence that having step-parents is harmful and detrimental to children. Even in my own family (extended family), having step parents has ruined kids lives. I've seen it. Even where I work, I know several whose kids are ending up train wrecks, because they broke up the family, and have step mothers and step fathers.

If it worked well for you, peachy. But the fact remains that over all, screwing up the family, ruins people. There are some people who are hooked on heroin, and live normal lives. That doesn't change the fact the vast majority it destroys them. Don't live your life based on the exception.

Kids learn at a very young age how to play the stepparent game. They are at great risk for becoming sociopaths, malignant naricissists or social manipulators at the very least. And of those results are the child being unhappy and maladjusted as an adult. And that is because the more parents you add, the more likely they will fall out of agreement in the parenting plan. If/when they do, the child INSTANTLY sees the weak link in the chain and runs to it in order to play it off the others and vice versa. It doesn't happen 100% of the time, but the likelihood of it increases exponentially with each new addition.

 

[EverCurious]

Isn't it interesting that no only did I /not/ do that to my parents who split up when I was 5, but that none of my own children did either. Also turns out that not one of us is mentally ill, in fact, NONE of the people I know who were raised in a step family are mentally ill...

1) Show me some figures to back up this claim that step-parents = psychopathic kids. and 2) I bet in nearly every case you find there's also evidence of secondary trauma or terrible parents to begin with; which is far more likely to be the cause of mental issues in a child than having step parents. That happens in ANY family, traditional, bi-racial, gay/lesbian, single parent, and step families alike.

Sounds like just another excuse to give some kind of "reason" for hate to me.

As for the parental rights thing: so are you saying that the child should be punished in a divorce by removal of someone they consider a parent from their lives, simply because mom/dad passed away? aka my children who were also raised by my current husband, should not be given visitation of some kind with their [step] father if I were to get in an accident? You want to talk about traumatizing children... I am thankful that my ex-husband is not such a selfish prick and would allow our youngest, likely even to remain living, with my current husband if I should die. Love isn't so biased and fickle.

How about a couple examples to mull over:

My ex-husband adopted his step-son with his wife a couple years ago, the child's bio father was unfortunately killed in Desert Storm. How is it right that "suddenly" my exe has parental rights, where as he hasn't (in the eyes of the law for the past 7 years,) and how does that have ANYTHING to do with the mental health of the child. (Though to be upfront, in this case the young boy was born mentally retarded.)

How about this case: my bio-father remarried and had a step daughter, after some odd years, they divorced after the "mom" ran off with another guy. Turns out said new guy was beating the shit out of both mom and daughter. Daughter ran away, went back to my bio-dad's (from CA back to ND at age 15 mind you) - After court hearings, where mom was round both abusive and negligent, and eventually gave up her parental rights - I have an adopted sister. Can you seriously argue that my sister would have been better off with her bio-mother, than with her step-father? Such decisions would be on a case by case basis, regardless of marriage history, sexual orientation, or anything else frankly.

I believe than an [active/involved] bio-parent should have a strong preference over a step-parent in parental rights cases, but there /should/ be some consideration for the CHILD'S feelings about their step parent as well. (I specify active/involved bio-parent here only because there are SOOO many single mom's/dead beat dads/unknown fathers etc these days.) I personally would rather see a loving and involved step-parent get custody then some uncaring and unknown to the child bio-parent)


As for parental rights regarding gay/lesbian/or as in the op families: Do you really think that a child who has lived with his mothers/fathers his whole life is going to suddenly HATE one of his parents if the other dies? Exactly why SHOULDN'T the surviving mother/father have parental rights? Should said child then go immediately into adoption if one of their lesbian/gay parents should have an accident? How do you think the child is going to feel about that?

And overall, what if the child is in-vetro using an anonymous male sperm, or a "borrowed" womb in any marriage/civil agreement marriage? Does one argue that upon the death of the adoptee of such a child, the child should be thrown into adoption center? Or is it ONLY the gay/lesbian survivor you believe should not be allowed parental rights in such a case?


Bottom line: clinging to "traditional marriage" ideals is one thing, and one is, of course, free to preach it in church/your family all you like, but to deny the present, where half of all marriages fail and end in divorce, where some 21 million children are raised in single parent households (and feel free to take a guess at how many of those "single parents" do not have a new partner involved with said children,) to cling to outdated "traditional" marriage and parental rights laws that have not kept up with, that do not fully address, MODERN reality is foolish and stubborn, and worse, has no end but harming innocent children, who really had no choice in ANY of it.

There is no way a law stating that parents cannot divorce, that a person cannot have a child unless they are married, nor anything of the sort will EVER pass. Step families are not going stop happening, single parent households are not going to stop happening, and yes, lesbian/gay families are going to happen. Turning away from establishing legal standards for marriage/(whatever legal partnership you want to call gay/lesbian couples) and the parental rights in such arrangements /now/ is only going to cause problems for the children of such families, as well as for the adults in such families. Are you folks really so stubborn and selfish that you would throw those kids' love for their step-parent or gay/lesbian parent out with the bathwater?

 

[Andylusion]

Isn't it interesting that no only did I /not/ do that to my parents who split up when I was 5, but that none of my own children did either. Also turns out that not one of us is mentally ill, in fact, NONE of the people I know who were raised in a step family are mentally ill...

1) Show me some figures to back up this claim that step-parents = psychopathic kids. and 2) I bet in nearly every case you find there's also evidence of secondary trauma or terrible parents to begin with; which is far more likely to be the cause of mental issues in a child than having step parents. That happens in ANY family, traditional, bi-racial, gay/lesbian, single parent, and step families alike.

Sounds like just another excuse to give some kind of "reason" for hate to me.

As for the parental rights thing: so are you saying that the child should be punished in a divorce by removal of someone they consider a parent from their lives, simply because mom/dad passed away? aka my children who were also raised by my current husband, should not be given visitation of some kind with their [step] father if I were to get in an accident? You want to talk about traumatizing children... I am thankful that my ex-husband is not such a selfish prick and would allow our youngest, likely even to remain living, with my current husband if I should die. Love isn't so biased and fickle.

How about a couple examples to mull over:

My ex-husband adopted his step-son with his wife a couple years ago, the child's bio father was unfortunately killed in Desert Storm. How is it right that "suddenly" my exe has parental rights, where as he hasn't (in the eyes of the law for the past 7 years,) and how does that have ANYTHING to do with the mental health of the child. (Though to be upfront, in this case the young boy was born mentally retarded.)

How about this case: my bio-father remarried and had a step daughter, after some odd years, they divorced after the "mom" ran off with another guy. Turns out said new guy was beating the shit out of both mom and daughter. Daughter ran away, went back to my bio-dad's (from CA back to ND at age 15 mind you) - After court hearings, where mom was round both abusive and negligent, and eventually gave up her parental rights - I have an adopted sister. Can you seriously argue that my sister would have been better off with her bio-mother, than with her step-father? Such decisions would be on a case by case basis, regardless of marriage history, sexual orientation, or anything else frankly.

I believe than an [active/involved] bio-parent should have a strong preference over a step-parent in parental rights cases, but there /should/ be some consideration for the CHILD'S feelings about their step parent as well. (I specify active/involved bio-parent here only because there are SOOO many single mom's/dead beat dads/unknown fathers etc these days.) I personally would rather see a loving and involved step-parent get custody then some uncaring and unknown to the child bio-parent)


As for parental rights regarding gay/lesbian/or as in the op families: Do you really think that a child who has lived with his mothers/fathers his whole life is going to suddenly HATE one of his parents if the other dies? Exactly why SHOULDN'T the surviving mother/father have parental rights? Should said child then go immediately into adoption if one of their lesbian/gay parents should have an accident? How do you think the child is going to feel about that?

And overall, what if the child is in-vetro using an anonymous male sperm, or a "borrowed" womb in any marriage/civil agreement marriage? Does one argue that upon the death of the adoptee of such a child, the child should be thrown into adoption center? Or is it ONLY the gay/lesbian survivor you believe should not be allowed parental rights in such a case?


Bottom line: clinging to "traditional marriage" ideals is one thing, and one is, of course, free to preach it in church/your family all you like, but to deny the present, where half of all marriages fail and end in divorce, where some 21 million children are raised in single parent households (and feel free to take a guess at how many of those "single parents" do not have a new partner involved with said children,) to cling to outdated "traditional" marriage and parental rights laws that have not kept up with, that do not fully address, MODERN reality is foolish and stubborn, and worse, has no end but harming innocent children, who really had no choice in ANY of it.

There is no way a law stating that parents cannot divorce, that a person cannot have a child unless they are married, nor anything of the sort will EVER pass. Step families are not going stop happening, single parent households are not going to stop happening, and yes, lesbian/gay families are going to happen. Turning away from establishing legal standards for marriage/(whatever legal partnership you want to call gay/lesbian couples) and the parental rights in such arrangements /now/ is only going to cause problems for the children of such families, as well as for the adults in such families. Are you folks really so stubborn and selfish that you would throw those kids' love for their step-parent or gay/lesbian parent out with the bathwater?

No one said mentally ill. The only person thus far on this thread, that has brought up mentally ill, is you. We said it is detrimental, and it is. But making up stuff no one said, and claiming what no one said, is wrong, is not logical.

Don't be crazy, and think that everyone is out to get you. I don't even know you. Why would I make up a reason to 'hate you'? That's not logical. If you really honestly believe that everyone is trying to make up reasons to hate you, then you have defeated your own argument, because that.... is psychotic.

My ex-husband adopted his step-son with his wife a couple years ago, the child's bio father was unfortunately killed in Desert Storm.

This is a completely different situation. The problem come in when you have broken families. If the boy is growing up in an intact home, with a mother and a father, there is no issue. The problem is when the children have multiple mothers, or multiple fathers. It's when you shuffle them around, and they have divided authority. Are there exceptions? Of course. But the vast majority of the time, it has a terrible effect.

I've seen this in my extended family. One specific family, the guy got married, popped out two kids, ditched his wife, and found a new wife, and had a child with her. Now the two original kids, with a mother and step mother, one boy and one girl, both ended up having all kinds of problem. Broken marriages, in and out of prison, just problems on problems. Yet the one girl who they had together, which only had one mother, and one father... she's fine. Has a great family now, and is doing well. Coincidence? I don't think so.

How about this case: my bio-father remarried and had a step daughter, after some odd years, they divorced after the "mom" ran off with another guy. Turns out said new guy was beating the shit out of both mom and daughter.

0.o Wouldn't that..... actually lend credibility to our argument that step parents and broken families are not good? The family broke up, and new daddy was beating up step daughter and wife.

I personally would rather see a loving and involved step-parent get custody then some uncaring and unknown to the child bio-parent)

But that's the point. The vast majority simply don't love kids as much as their biological parents.

It's amazing the amount of problems that are created when you do this. I've heard about wives, secretly changing their wills, behind their husbands back, to get most of the inheritance going to 'their kid' over the step kids that their husband had with another women. Why? "Well they can get stuff from their mother".

Oh but you would never do that. GREAT! Fact is, it happens ALL THE TIME. It's common.

Just to be clear on this.... I have no problem with people marrying a widow. There is no issue with that.

The problem is when you have broken families, in multiple households, with multiple parents. It does screw up kids. There is tons of evidence of this.

 

[bodecea]

Once a society starts becoming degenerate it just becomes more degenerate until the end.

There's little left of the country that's defensible.

Then feel free to leave.

I'll help you pack, Katzdogz.