Prince's Trust Survey & The Voices of the Voteless (Children) in Gay Marriage Debate

What is your view of the voice of children in the gay marriage/marrige equality debate?

  • I think they are a mere afterthought, this debate is about adults and their rights

    Votes: 2 16.7%
  • I think they are important, but always subdominant to adult considerations

    Votes: 2 16.7%
  • I think they are equally important as adults in this conversation.

    Votes: 2 16.7%
  • Kids are more important than adults. They cannot vote; marriage is by, for & about them ultimately.

    Votes: 6 50.0%

  • Total voters
    12

Silhouette

Gold Member
Jul 15, 2013
25,815
1,938
265
The largest study of its kind, the Prince's Trust of the UK did a survey of over 2,000 young adults who were self-reporting and out of the influence of their formative environment. The topic was growing up without their own gender represented as a role model. The conclusion was that doing so was and is highly deterimental to their sense of self-worth and esteem and social adjustments. The net result was depression, drug use, a feeling of not belonging and even suicide.

Whereas in discussions about this survey, the LGBT's argue that the study "doesn't mention gay parents". I argue that it doesn't have to. 50% of children in any "gay marriage" would fit the category surveyed by the Prince's Trust study. Ergo, it applies to gay marriage.

I further argue that, according to the conclusion of the Prince's Trust survey, it would be better for a child to be in a single parent hetero home than a "gay married" home. My reasoning is simple and follows the line of inquiry in the survey. It is because of the "not feeling like they belong" finding in the conclusion. In a single parent home that is hetero, at least the parent would still be reaching out to the gender of the child. Take a single mother/son scenario. The mother would still be flirting with, dating and remembering the importance of the boy's gender in daily life. The boy would see this. He would internalize this. He would say to himself, "at least my gender still has a place in mom's heart".

A child of "gay parents" however would see not one iota of this message. Instead, daily this message would be to him: "your gender NEVER matters". And perhaps this is the source of this unfortunate boy's delusions: (and institutionalized child abuse in California, using the new fad "as the word of God"...more on that below) Boy Drugged By Lesbian Parents To Be A Girl US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum


Page 8 (the left side on the green background) http://www.princes-trust.org.uk/pdf/Youth_Index_jan2011.pdf
In addition to indexing the happiness and wellbeing of young people, the report explores some significant demographic differences between young people. They include a comparison between those not in education employment or training with their peers...those without a positive role model of their gender in their lives (women without a positive female role model and men without a positive male role model) and their peers...those with fewer than five GCSEs graded A* to C (or equivalent) with their peers... Respondents are asked how happy and confident they are in different areas of their life. The responses are converted to a numerical scale, resulting in a number out of 100-- with 100 representing entirely happy or confident and zero being not at all happy or confident.
Page 10 (The bold largest heading above the material that followed it)
Young people without a role model of the same gender in their lives
The Daily Mail article from the Prince's Trust study... Teens without parent role model are 67 per cent less likely to get a job Daily Mail Online
Young men with no male role models in their lives and women without a mother figure struggle to keep their lives on track, a hard-hitting report warns today. The Prince’s Trust youth index, the largest survey of its kind, found that....67 per cent more likely to be unemployed than their counterparts. They are also significantly more likely to stay unemployed for longer than their peers, the report suggests....It found that young men with no male role model are 50 per cent more likely to abuse drugs and young females in the corresponding position are significantly more likely to drink to excess..
Young men with no male role model to look up to were twice as likely to turn or consider turning to crime as a result of being unemployed...The report, which was based on interviews with 2,170 16 to 25-year-olds...These young men are also three times more likely to feel down or depressed all of the time and significantly more likely to admit that they cannot remember the last time they felt proud...They are also significantly less likely to feel happy and confident than those with male role models, according to the figures....The Prince’s Trust report, which was carried out by YouGov, suggests young people without male role models are more than twice as likely to lack a sense of belonging.

The next thing you will hear in this thread from the usual LGBT posters/spammers is that "you're ignoring a bunch of other studies that say gay parents do just fine!!".

And my answer to that is:

1. Those studies are affiliated with the APA, which was censured by Congress in 1999 for a study they published that depicted sexual contact between adults and minors as "benign or even good for the kids". (Page 3 at the top) http://www.nappp.org/pdf/nickcumno.pdf

2. The APA was taken over starting in the 1960s and culminating in the 1980s by what is basically a cult; gays who had even physically stormed APA conventions, knocking over booths and siezing the MC microphone to DEMAND they be taken off the crazy list (DSM manual), ironically. My Past Gay Musing and Stories 1973 WHEN HOMOSEXUALITY STOPPED BEING A MENTAL ILLNESS 1 Dec 2004 Volume 1 Issue 17 Also pay attention to the youtube video cue at 4:00

3. The APA after being so absorbed by this neo-cult simply disappeared the notion long held its governing ranks that all public positions on any topic must be backed by hard science. It was called the "Leona Tyler principle" and it was the ruling principle for decades before it was "disappeared" in the 1980s by the new ownership. A search on APA archives doesn't even find a passing reference to Leona Tyler Principle.
As to #4 below, start especially paying attention to the interveiw at 8:30 cue.

4. Now embraced by the APA is a method of "scientific survey" that is the antithesis of science. Those who know how science is done best (large surveys, objective inquiry, freedom of peer review and commentary without pressures to conform) will be shocked to learn about the APA's new cult-science methods:
(No, I'm not making this up, follow the link to the APA website)

Consensual Qualitative Research: A Practical Resource for Investigating Social Science Phenomena
Edited by Clara E. Hill, PhD Consensual Qualitative Research A Practical Resource for Investigating Social Science Phenomena
"
This lively and practical text presents a fresh and comprehensive approach to conducting consensual qualitative research (CQR). CQR is an inductive method that is characterized by open-ended interview questions, small samples, a reliance on words over numbers, the importance of context, an integration of multiple viewpoints, and consensus of the research team. It is especially well-suited to research that requires rich descriptions of inner experiences, attitudes, and convictions.
Written to help researchers navigate their way through qualitative techniques and methodology, leading expert Clara E. Hill and her associates provide readers with step-by-step practical guidance during each stage of the research process. Readers learn about adaptive ways of designing studies; collecting, coding, and analyzing data; and reporting findings.
Key aspects of the researcher's craft are addressed, such as establishing the research team, recruiting and interviewing participants, adhering to ethical standards, raising cultural awareness, auditing within case analyses and cross analyses, and writing up the study.


Intended as a user-friendly manual for graduate-level research courses and beyond, the text will be a valuable resource for both budding and experienced qualitative researchers for many years to come.
***************


Until now, the US Supreme Court has been reading APA funded/affiliated (including the AMA and many other...virtually all.. pediatric affiliates, who genuflect at the altar of the neo-APA as well as many other respectable science entitites...likely unknowing of the new APA protocols) and sponsored results in amicus briefs "as God's word" on the question of how appropriate "gay mariage" is for children's wellbeing. The Prince's Trust survey flies directly in contrast to those conclusions ; and since it is the largest survey of its kind, must by definition of "good science" be regarded as the best and most reliable source of answering how gay marriage would affect the formative environment of children (marriage).
 
Last edited:
The largest study of its kind, the Prince's Trust of the UK did a survey of over 2,000 young adults who were self-reporting .

The study doesn't mention gay marriage, doesn't mention homosexuals at all.

But feel free to send it to the Supreme Court.
 
Wow, great poll question.

'Important, but less so than adults'

We don't extend equal rights to children for sometimes iffy reasons. But their opinions, if bright enough to form one, are important. But out of necessity, because they can't vote, work, pay taxes, etc. they have to be put under the relevance of adults who can do those things.
 
I think we should take Silly's idea to it's ultimate conclusion.

If gay marriage is 'bad" for kids, then divorce is worse for them.

Therefore, no divorce if you have a minor child in the house. Ever.

He's beating you? Suck it up!

She's fucking the Milkman and you aren't even sure that's your kid? Too bad!

It's for the CHILDREN*!!!!

(*Does not apply to Children languishing in foster care because straight couples don't want them, and we won't let gays have them.)
 
I think we should take Silly's idea to it's ultimate conclusion.

If gay marriage is 'bad" for kids, then divorce is worse for them.

Therefore, no divorce if you have a minor child in the house. Ever.

He's beating you? Suck it up!

That is precisely the reason states are also very relutantly involved in divorce too. For the children. It's all about the child's welfare from start to occasional unfortunate finish. Don't believe me? Go to a family law court and see who gets the most air time, adults or children. Thanks for making my OP points for me.
 
Wow, great poll question.

'Important, but less so than adults'

We don't extend equal rights to children for sometimes iffy reasons. But their opinions, if bright enough to form one, are important. But out of necessity, because they can't vote, work, pay taxes, etc. they have to be put under the relevance of adults who can do those things.

So you essentially consider children at the whims of adults when push comes to shove? And yet our laws are written differently when it comes to signs of impending child endangerment at the hands of adults, aren't they? In fact, child endangerment laws are dominant to adults "rights" in every instance.

How do you square up that legal fact against the findings in the Prince's Trust study pitted against gay marriage which will create that unfortunate situation 50% of the time for children caught up in that situation?
 
That is precisely the reason states are also very relutantly involved in divorce too. For the children. It's all about the child's welfare from start to occasional unfortunate finish. Don't believe me? Go to a family law court and see who gets the most air time, adults or children. Thanks for making my OP points for me.

Nobody ever got denied a divorce "for the children".

Usually, when they take up air time in court, it's "Who can use the children to squeeze the most money or misery out of the other side."

It's why we have so many screwed up kids in therapy.
 
There are almost 150 million orphan children in the world. Most will go unadopted and never have the support of a family and a home to call their own. If a couple wants to give them that home and support, whether they're straight or not, then God bless them.
 
There are almost 150 million orphan children in the world. Most will go unadopted and never have the support of a family and a home to call their own. If a couple wants to give them that home and support, whether they're straight or not, then God bless them.

I disagree with you. An orphan in a Christian orphanage is 10,000 times better off than a child adopted by a gay couple in my belief. Children need a father and a mother. Orphans need a father and a mother and an atmosphere in which they can be healed of the abuse they suffered which resulted in their having become orphans / or the loss of both parents due to some tragic accident. It would be better to remain in an orphanage than to be given to two women living a perverse lifestyle in front of them or two men living a perverse lifestyle in front of them. Children who are already "at risk" ( and have been placed in an orphanage ) do NOT need to be placed in a situation of even greater risk. It's a very wicked thing to do to any child. Who is more vulnerable than an orphan? I am totally against people who have chosen a homosexual lifestyle adopting children.
 
I disagree with you. An orphan in a Christian orphanage is 10,000 times better off than a child adopted by a gay couple in my belief. Children need a father and a mother. Orphans need a father and a mother and an atmosphere in which they can be healed of the abuse they suffered which resulted in their having become orphans / or the loss of both parents due to some tragic accident. It would be better to remain in an orphanage than to be given to two women living a perverse lifestyle in front of them or two men living a perverse lifestyle in front of them. Children who are already "at risk" ( and have been placed in an orphanage ) do NOT need to be placed in a situation of even greater risk. It's a very wicked thing to do to any child. Who is more vulnerable than an orphan? I am totally against people who have chosen a homosexual lifestyle adopting children.
I'm not sure about "perverse lifestyle" argument...though it definitely is a point of debate.

This thread is about the statistically-proven damage that results from children not having a role model of their same gender day to day; which of course would statistically occur with 50% of the kids in "gay marriage" homes.

Of course it came from a study of raw data on a very large survey (the largest of its kind by leaps and bounds), done as objectively as possible, using statistical analysis to draw a conclusion...so...you know...the APA would definitely reject it.
 
I disagree with you. An orphan in a Christian orphanage is 10,000 times better off than a child adopted by a gay couple in my belief. Children need a father and a mother. Orphans need a father and a mother and an atmosphere in which they can be healed of the abuse they suffered which resulted in their having become orphans / or the loss of both parents due to some tragic accident. It would be better to remain in an orphanage than to be given to two women living a perverse lifestyle in front of them or two men living a perverse lifestyle in front of them. Children who are already "at risk" ( and have been placed in an orphanage ) do NOT need to be placed in a situation of even greater risk. It's a very wicked thing to do to any child. Who is more vulnerable than an orphan? I am totally against people who have chosen a homosexual lifestyle adopting children.
I'm not sure about "perverse lifestyle" argument...though it definitely is a point of debate.

This thread is about the proven damage that results from children not having a role model of their same gender day to day; which of course would statistically occur with 50% of the kids in "gay marriage" homes.

Children should most definitely have a mother and a father. I believe I stated that also in my response. The act of homosexuality is perversion and a sin according to the Bible. I do not need a debate to figure out that the Bible is correct. The Bible is always right - even when men (and women) disagree with it.
 
Children should most definitely have a mother and a father. I believe I stated that also in my response. The act of homosexuality is perversion and a sin according to the Bible. I do not need a debate to figure out that the Bible is correct. The Bible is always right - even when men (and women) disagree with it.

Well if you care about results instead of pontificating rhetoric you'd be more concerned about a secular approach to defeating this. You may have a point on the 1st amendment front, but psychological damage is what the Justices ears will be tuned into come the day of the Hearing...unless you don't care what the results of that Hearing are and want to keep pounding the Jesus drum until the Rainbow army rips it legally from your curled white knuckles.

Sorry about being so blunt but I'm rather tired of the wrong way that moves no pebble being used when there is a backhoe handy with the engine warmed up.
 
Children should most definitely have a mother and a father. I believe I stated that also in my response. The act of homosexuality is perversion and a sin according to the Bible. I do not need a debate to figure out that the Bible is correct. The Bible is always right - even when men (and women) disagree with it.

Well if you care about results instead of pontificating rhetoric you'd be more concerned about a secular approach to defeating this. You may have a point on the 1st amendment front, but psychological damage is what the Justices ears will be tuned into come the day of the Hearing...unless you don't care what the results of that Hearing are and want to keep pounding the Jesus drum until the Rainbow army rips it legally from your curled white knuckles.

Sorry about being so blunt but I'm rather tired of the wrong way that moves no pebble being used when there is a backhoe handy with the engine warmed up.

This nation was dedicated to God from the beginning - see story of George Washington and harbinger judgment. When you start allowing such abominations to take place on American soil you can expect the same result as Sodom and Gomorrah. I'm not interested in what you are tired of - to be clear - I'm interested in what God has to say. Not some godless psychologist who has yet to "cure" anyone of "anything". My hope is in Him. When a nation obeys God? The results are 100% positive. A nation that turns against God will be destroyed.
 
Jeremiah was a bullfrog...da da...was the type apt to whine...da da..made the debate about religion... yeah...so facts be left behind...da da ..
 
I think we should take Silly's idea to it's ultimate conclusion.

If gay marriage is 'bad" for kids, then divorce is worse for them.

Therefore, no divorce if you have a minor child in the house. Ever.

He's beating you? Suck it up!

She's fucking the Milkman and you aren't even sure that's your kid? Too bad!

It's for the CHILDREN*!!!!

(*Does not apply to Children languishing in foster care because straight couples don't want them, and we won't let gays have them.)

The entire premise of Silo's argument is moot. Gays and lesbians are still having kids. Denying same sex parents access to marriage doesn't mean that their children suddenly have opposite sex parents. It only guarantees that these children never have married parents.

Which helps no one.
 
Jeremiah was a bullfrog...da da...was the type apt to whine...da da..made the debate about religion... yeah...so facts be left behind...da da ..

The Bible is Truth. I don't have a "world based view", Silhouette. I have a "Biblical based view of the world". And I make no apologies for it. I'm very comfortable with my position because I'm in agreement with God. Not the world. How about you?
 
Jeremiah was a bullfrog...da da...was the type apt to whine...da da..made the debate about religion... yeah...so facts be left behind...da da ..

The Bible is Truth. I don't have a "world based view", Silhouette. I have a "Biblical based view of the world". And I make no apologies for it. I'm very comfortable with my position because I'm in agreement with God. Not the world. How about you?
Doesn't matter. This thread is about facts found in a survey of adult children; reporting on how damaging not having their gender as a role model is in their lives.

And about how any APA study that appears to refute those findings should be taken with a volkswagen-sized grain of salt. If those real world results make you feel good about your religion, great. Otherwise take your bible-thumping to another thread.
 
I'm merely pointing out that while you banter on and on - complaining about homosexuals - you refuse to recognize it as a spiritual issue and not a political one. But carry on. I've got other things to do. Bye now.
 

Forum List

Back
Top