DiamondDave
Army Vet
boedicca... bfgrn, the idiot winger, will ignore and keep using his bullshit medical bankruptcy slogan
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The american people also voted for the USA to not be the police force of the world and to not be into nation building.
Remember only fools believe political promises. They are specifically exempt from the truth in advertising laws for a good reason.
Politicians lie!
What ballot was this on?
For the record, Americans have always wanted a strong defense and increasing influence in the world. What they dont want is piddling police actions like Somalia that are ill defined and will always end in disaster.
really? this commie bastard disagrees with you:
The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is in extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little political connection as possible. So far as we have already formed engagements, let them be fulfilled with perfect good faith. Here let us stop. Europe has a set of primary interests which to us have none; or a very remote relation. Hence she must be engaged in frequent controversies, the causes of which are essentially foreign to our concerns. Hence, therefore, it must be unwise in us to implicate ourselves by artificial ties in the ordinary vicissitudes of her politics, or the ordinary combinations and collisions of her friendships or enmities.
What ballot was this on?
For the record, Americans have always wanted a strong defense and increasing influence in the world. What they dont want is piddling police actions like Somalia that are ill defined and will always end in disaster.
really? this commie bastard disagrees with you:
The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is in extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little political connection as possible. So far as we have already formed engagements, let them be fulfilled with perfect good faith. Here let us stop. Europe has a set of primary interests which to us have none; or a very remote relation. Hence she must be engaged in frequent controversies, the causes of which are essentially foreign to our concerns. Hence, therefore, it must be unwise in us to implicate ourselves by artificial ties in the ordinary vicissitudes of her politics, or the ordinary combinations and collisions of her friendships or enmities.
Newsflash: Ron Paul bombed in the primaries.
Yea del...we are fucked. Ironic your definition of sad...
THIS is fucked and THIS is sad...
Medical bills prompt more than 60 percent of U.S. bankruptcies
Fri June 5, 2009
This year, an estimated 1.5 million Americans will declare bankruptcy. Many people may chalk up that misfortune to overspending or a lavish lifestyle, but a new study suggests that more than 60 percent of people who go bankrupt are actually capsized by medical bills.
Bankruptcies due to medical bills increased by nearly 50 percent in a six-year period, from 46 percent in 2001 to 62 percent in 2007, and most of those who filed for bankruptcy were middle-class, well-educated homeowners, according to a report that will be published in the August issue of The American Journal of Medicine.
Overall, three-quarters of the people with a medically-related bankruptcy had health insurance, they say.
"That was actually the predominant problem in patients in our study -- 78 percent of them had health insurance, but many of them were bankrupted anyway because there were gaps in their coverage like co-payments and deductibles and uncovered services," says Woolhandler. "Other people had private insurance but got so sick that they lost their job and lost their insurance."
Medical bills prompt more than 60 percent of U.S. bankruptcies - CNN.com
This is absolute crap.
Reputable studies (including one from the Department of Justice), show that medical bills contribute to 17% or less of bankruptcies. The DOJ one was 12-13%.
The biggest proximate cause of bankruptcy is lack of income to service debt. It's not surprising given the "Everyone has a right to a house" Federal Policy that there is an increase in BK filings. Combine this with excessive credit card bills and the spike in unemployment - those are the real problems.
Yes, some people file bankruptcy because they are ill - the bigger reason is that they cannot work and have lost their income. These unfortunate people are being exploited by cynical politicians. ObamaCare will not restore their income (nor should it). Their bankruptcies could only have been avoided with sufficient rainy day savings. It's too bad our tax code makes accumulating savings increasingly difficult.
Reputable studies? Where are your links?
Why is it you right wing pea brains always site studies to refute the carnage being perpetrated on the middle class and they always lead back to the same right wing think tanks...you know, the same ones that provided 'Reputable studies' that cigarette smoking had no link to lung cancer?
Reading without reflecting is like eating without digesting.
Edmund Burke
Here you go:
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE,
OFFICE OF LEGISLATIVE AFFAIRS,
Washington, DC.
Hon. CHARLES E. GRASSLEY,
U.S. Senate,
Washington, DC.
DEAR SENATOR GRASSLEY:
This responds to your letter, dated February 5, 2005,
requesting information from the Executive Office for United States Trustees (EOUST)
concerning medical debts of those who file for bankruptcy protection and the recently published
study in the Health Affairs journal (“Market Watch: Illness and Injury As Contributors to
Bankruptcy”).
It is the practice of the U.S. Trustee Program (USTP) not to comment on data collected and
analyses performed by outside researchers for reasons that include difficulties in verifying their
data and research methodologies. It is noted in the cited study of 1,771 filers that very broad
definitions of “medical bankruptcies” are used. The authors considered a “Major Medical
Bankruptcy” to include cases in which debtor reported any of the following: illness or injury as a
reason for filing bankruptcy, uncovered medical bills exceeding $1,000 in the past two years, loss
of two weeks of work-related income due to illness or injury, or mortgage of home to pay medical
bills. The authors considered “Any Medical Bankruptcy” to include cases containing any of the
factors above or birth or death in the debtor's family or birth or death in the debtor's family or
addiction or uncontrolled gambling.
Enclosed in a description of related USTP data and a summary of findings from analysis of a
similar but larger sample of bankruptcy cases (5,203) utilizing data from official records during
approximately the same time period as the study cited above. It should be noted that reported
credit card debt also may reflect medical-related debts, but are not shown in these findings.
In general, the data describing medical-related expenses contained in official documents filed
by chapter 7 debtors reveal that slightly more than 5 percent of their general unsecured debt is
medical-related. The conclusion that almost 50 percent of consumer bankruptcies are “medical
related” requires a broad definition and generally is not substantiated by the official documents
filed by debtors.
We hope this information is responsive to your inquiry. If we can be of further assistance,
please do not hesitate to contact this office.
Sincerely,
William E. Moschella,
Assistant Attorney General.
USTP DATA (from DOJ records)
The USTP database contains 5,203 no asset chapter 7 cases that were closed between 2000 and 2002. The database includes cases filed in 48 States, Washington, DC and Puerto Rico proportionate to chapter 7 filings in each location. The database contains no cases from North Carolina and Alabama, because those States are served by Bankruptcy Administrators. Nearly all of these cases had been filed about 4 months prior to closing.
On each petition we reviewed Schedule F of the petition to see if any medical debts were listed. This would include where the creditor was a doctor, hospital or other treatment facility, medical collection agency, or if the debt was in any way identifiable as being medical in origin. This accounting would not have identified medical debts charged on credit cards, placed with certain collection agencies, or paid prior to the bankruptcy filings.
FINDINGS
All Debtors (N = 5,203):
54 percent listed no medical debt.
Medical debt accounted for 5.5 percent of the total general unsecured debt.
90.1 percent reported medical debts less than $5,000.
1 percent of cases accounted for 36.5 percent of medical debt.
Less than 10 percent of all cases represent 80 percent of all reported medical debt.
Cases Reporting Medical Debts (N = 2,391):
Among the debtors reporting medical debt, the average medical debt was $4,978 per case.
78.4 percent reported medical debts below $5,000 (average of $1,212 for this group).
21.6 percent reported 80.9 percent of the total medical debt.
Medical debts accounted for 13.0 percent of the total general unsecured debt for those reporting medical debt.
abiworld.net/bankbill/eoustdata.pdf
More info:
The Medical Bankruptcy Myth — The American, A Magazine of Ideas
Medical Bankruptcy: Myth Versus Fact -- Dranove and Millenson 25 (2): w74 -- Health Affairs
You can also download the pdf of Aparna Mathur's white paper.
RealClearMarkets - The Healthcare Bankruptcy Myth
This is absolute crap.
Reputable studies (including one from the Department of Justice), show that medical bills contribute to 17% or less of bankruptcies. The DOJ one was 12-13%.
The biggest proximate cause of bankruptcy is lack of income to service debt. It's not surprising given the "Everyone has a right to a house" Federal Policy that there is an increase in BK filings. Combine this with excessive credit card bills and the spike in unemployment - those are the real problems.
Yes, some people file bankruptcy because they are ill - the bigger reason is that they cannot work and have lost their income. These unfortunate people are being exploited by cynical politicians. ObamaCare will not restore their income (nor should it). Their bankruptcies could only have been avoided with sufficient rainy day savings. It's too bad our tax code makes accumulating savings increasingly difficult.
Reputable studies? Where are your links?
Why is it you right wing pea brains always site studies to refute the carnage being perpetrated on the middle class and they always lead back to the same right wing think tanks...you know, the same ones that provided 'Reputable studies' that cigarette smoking had no link to lung cancer?
Reading without reflecting is like eating without digesting.
Edmund Burke
This from the guy who can't provide evidence that Moody's screws up its ratings of sovereign debt.
What irony. Doctor, heal thyself.
This is absolute crap.
Reputable studies (including one from the Department of Justice), show that medical bills contribute to 17% or less of bankruptcies. The DOJ one was 12-13%.
The biggest proximate cause of bankruptcy is lack of income to service debt. It's not surprising given the "Everyone has a right to a house" Federal Policy that there is an increase in BK filings. Combine this with excessive credit card bills and the spike in unemployment - those are the real problems.
Yes, some people file bankruptcy because they are ill - the bigger reason is that they cannot work and have lost their income. These unfortunate people are being exploited by cynical politicians. ObamaCare will not restore their income (nor should it). Their bankruptcies could only have been avoided with sufficient rainy day savings. It's too bad our tax code makes accumulating savings increasingly difficult.
Reputable studies? Where are your links?
Why is it you right wing pea brains always site studies to refute the carnage being perpetrated on the middle class and they always lead back to the same right wing think tanks...you know, the same ones that provided 'Reputable studies' that cigarette smoking had no link to lung cancer?
Reading without reflecting is like eating without digesting.
Edmund Burke
This from the guy who can't provide evidence that Moody's screws up its ratings of sovereign debt.
What irony. Doctor, heal thyself.
boedicca... bfgrn, the idiot winger, will ignore and keep using his bullshit medical bankruptcy slogan
Thank you for providing the links...now, I strongly suggest you do some research into the organizations being represented...it is not we the people, it is we the corporations...
boedicca... bfgrn, the idiot winger, will ignore and keep using his bullshit medical bankruptcy slogan
I know - but rational people might appreciate actual info.
So let's talk about ethics.....
1) A bill has passed Congress.....barely
2) The bill went to the Senate, and was blended with the Senate bill, and passed along party lines.
3) The Senate version of the bill could pass if Congress accepts it to the letter of the bill, but they don't have the votes to pass the Senate's version.
4) Now they want to implement a little used, "Deemed Pass", so they can vote on a reconcilliation bill without voting the Senate bill. Nan' likes this, because the politicians can say they didn't vote for the Senate bill. Reality is that they are getting two bills with one vote, so it's disengenous to say they didn't vote on the Senate bill.
This bill is so bad that they have to use these kind of unethical tactics to ram 1/6 of our economy through the back door, that more than 50% Americans don't approve.
(use your imagination on the back door, I'm sure most are going to feel like this just happened to them)
So let's talk about ethics.....
1) A bill has passed Congress.....barely
2) The bill went to the Senate, and was blended with the Senate bill, and passed along party lines.
3) The Senate version of the bill could pass if Congress accepts it to the letter of the bill, but they don't have the votes to pass the Senate's version.
4) Now they want to implement a little used, "Deemed Pass", so they can vote on a reconcilliation bill without voting the Senate bill. Nan' likes this, because the politicians can say they didn't vote for the Senate bill. Reality is that they are getting two bills with one vote, so it's disengenous to say they didn't vote on the Senate bill.
This bill is so bad that they have to use these kind of unethical tactics to ram 1/6 of our economy through the back door, that more than 50% Americans don't approve.
(use your imagination on the back door, I'm sure most are going to feel like this just happened to them)
You want really get into ethics... almost EVERY SINGLE component in the bill was previously proposed by Republicans... but the party of NO only cares that our President fails, and the lives and well being of the citizens they represent is not even on their radar screen ...
So let's talk about ethics.....
1) A bill has passed Congress.....barely
2) The bill went to the Senate, and was blended with the Senate bill, and passed along party lines.
3) The Senate version of the bill could pass if Congress accepts it to the letter of the bill, but they don't have the votes to pass the Senate's version.
4) Now they want to implement a little used, "Deemed Pass", so they can vote on a reconcilliation bill without voting the Senate bill. Nan' likes this, because the politicians can say they didn't vote for the Senate bill. Reality is that they are getting two bills with one vote, so it's disengenous to say they didn't vote on the Senate bill.
This bill is so bad that they have to use these kind of unethical tactics to ram 1/6 of our economy through the back door, that more than 50% Americans don't approve.
(use your imagination on the back door, I'm sure most are going to feel like this just happened to them)
You want really get into ethics... almost EVERY SINGLE component in the bill was previously proposed by Republicans... but the party of NO only cares that our President fails, and the lives and well being of the citizens they represent is not even on their radar screen ...
"Almost Every Single Component" was previously proposed by republicans? Really?
Was the language trickery in funding this debacle of a bill proposed by the republicans too? Like the double spending of the money from Medicare? (even the CBO admits to that one) Bet you won't answer that one.
Let's not forget that 53% of Americans don't want obamacare.....that includes a lot of democrats. Not to mention that over 80% of Americans are happey with the insurance that they have. That includes a lot of democrats.
keep blathering your talking points bfrgn...I'm sure Chris, and rinata are listening.
You want really get into ethics... almost EVERY SINGLE component in the bill was previously proposed by Republicans... but the party of NO only cares that our President fails, and the lives and well being of the citizens they represent is not even on their radar screen ...
"Almost Every Single Component" was previously proposed by republicans? Really?
Was the language trickery in funding this debacle of a bill proposed by the republicans too? Like the double spending of the money from Medicare? (even the CBO admits to that one) Bet you won't answer that one.
Let's not forget that 53% of Americans don't want obamacare.....that includes a lot of democrats. Not to mention that over 80% of Americans are happey with the insurance that they have. That includes a lot of democrats.
keep blathering your talking points bfrgn...I'm sure Chris, and rinata are listening.
We face a health care crisis in America...it is not a new development. The Republicans are well aware of it, but they have chosen to put their party ahead you and me. They have resorted to a well worn right wing strategy of FEARmongering tactics laid out by Frank Luntz...and the fucked up right wing garbage you watch and listen to pushes their propaganda 24/7.
They are domestic terrorists...and you are so stupid you would arm the bombs for them.
You want really get into ethics... almost EVERY SINGLE component in the bill was previously proposed by Republicans... but the party of NO only cares that our President fails, and the lives and well being of the citizens they represent is not even on their radar screen ...
"Almost Every Single Component" was previously proposed by republicans? Really?
Was the language trickery in funding this debacle of a bill proposed by the republicans too? Like the double spending of the money from Medicare? (even the CBO admits to that one) Bet you won't answer that one.
Let's not forget that 53% of Americans don't want obamacare.....that includes a lot of democrats. Not to mention that over 80% of Americans are happey with the insurance that they have. That includes a lot of democrats.
keep blathering your talking points bfrgn...I'm sure Chris, and rinata are listening.
We face a health care crisis in America...it is not a new development. The Republicans are well aware of it, but they have chosen to put their party ahead you and me. They have resorted to a well worn right wing strategy of FEARmongering tactics laid out by Frank Luntz...and the fucked up right wing garbage you watch and listen to pushes their propaganda 24/7.
They are domestic terrorists...and you are so stupid you would arm the bombs for them.
"Almost Every Single Component" was previously proposed by republicans? Really?
Was the language trickery in funding this debacle of a bill proposed by the republicans too? Like the double spending of the money from Medicare? (even the CBO admits to that one) Bet you won't answer that one.
Let's not forget that 53% of Americans don't want obamacare.....that includes a lot of democrats. Not to mention that over 80% of Americans are happey with the insurance that they have. That includes a lot of democrats.
keep blathering your talking points bfrgn...I'm sure Chris, and rinata are listening.
We face a health care crisis in America...it is not a new development. The Republicans are well aware of it, but they have chosen to put their party ahead you and me. They have resorted to a well worn right wing strategy of FEARmongering tactics laid out by Frank Luntz...and the fucked up right wing garbage you watch and listen to pushes their propaganda 24/7.
They are domestic terrorists...and you are so stupid you would arm the bombs for them.
Fearmongering????? Sounds like the dems to me on this matter.
The republicans want healthcare reform.....but not this healthcare bill, bfgrn. It's too expensive and you and I both know it's not deficit neutral.
I believe in trying mandates for coverage, mandates for pre-existing conditions, and mandates for cancelling coverage. The government screws up everything it touches, and couldn't keep something this big at, or under budget....no way....no how.
Speaking of stupidity bfgrn.....you just need to look in the mirror to see the epitomy of stupidity...it'll be that mug staring back at you.
boedicca... bfgrn, the idiot winger, will ignore and keep using his bullshit medical bankruptcy slogan
I know - but rational people might appreciate actual info.
Hey little mermaid...I worked in the corporate world for years...back in 2004, the company I represented had both an excellent accident record and low claims, yet Blue Cross/Blue Shield was going to raise their health insurance premiums by 25%+... the owner was forced to explore all his options and had to go the self insured route...then, unfortunately in 2006, one of his branches had a mechanic crushed to death by a piece of equipment's counterweight. It created a situation that almost sank the company...
So it not just individuals and families that are being destroyed by these immoral cartels