The Math Proves Which Side To Support

[Shusha]

How do you deprogram that? How do you make that deprogramming stick? Wouldn't it take generations to undo all that, if that's even possible?

Yes, I've said before, I'd expect at least two generations.

 

[AnOrangeCat]

Yes, I've said before, I'd expect at least two generations.

Well that's an awful long time to expect Israel to live with that on their borders.

Not even addressing the fact of how it's possible to do that?

Any attempt at reform will be met with Islamist resistance, so there's no guarantee that it's even possible to deprogram what has been hard-wired into their minds and lives.

It's not like Nazi Germany where you had Germans who felt shame and guilt over what they did. The Muslim world does not have shame or guilt, so there's no way to get them to reform. No incentives are worth surrendering their dogma.

 

[Shusha]

Right.

So kill all the civilians because BIbi funded Hamas might be hiding behind one

No. Evacuate the civilians, then destroy the infrastructure and military objectives, then prevent rebuilding of military infrastructure.

 

[Shusha]

Well that's an awful long time to expect Israel to live with that on their borders.

Not even addressing the fact of how it's possible to do that?

Any attempt at reform will be met with Islamist resistance, so there's no guarantee that it's even possible to deprogram what has been hard-wired into their minds and lives.

The solution is education (intellectual and religious) and integration into Israeli society for those who are willing to live peacefully within Israeli society and side-by-side with Jews.

It would not apply to all those in Gaza, so not 2 million. An Israeli friend suggests a small city-sized group of well-vetted Gazans and Israeli volunteers and investors. Access to this city would be limited and strictly controlled. And there would be no access into Israel for this group of Gazans.

 

[AnOrangeCat]

The solution is education (intellectual and religious) and integration into Israeli society for those who are willing to live peacefully within Israeli society and side-by-side with Jews.

How can you trust them to live peacefully? They already get education through UNRWA, and it doesn't seem to be working. Almost every single terrorist who participated in 10/7 was once a child in Gaza who was educated by UNRWA.

I think it's easy for people to say education is the key, but what if they don't want to be educated? Are you going to force them into re-education camps?

Are there any successful examples in history of mass deprogramming? Like I said before, I think Nazi Germany comes closest to that but only because they have shame and guilt about what they did.

Palestinians have neither shame or guilt. It's not something you can teach someone. You either have that empathy or you don't.

 

[Shusha]

As for those who are not willing to live peacefully alongside Jews and Israelis, well that is an impossible problem to solve. All of the options are abhorrent and none of them provide a guarantee of safety for Jews.

Keep them in this tiny strip of land, made smaller by the emerging joint cities? With high perimeter security to prevent smuggling of weapons?

Occupy the tiny strip of land with continued and strong military presence?

Forcibly displace them? To where? A "neutral" state? A radicalized state?

How do any of these options provide safety to Jews?

 

[AnOrangeCat]

It would not apply to all those in Gaza, so not 2 million. An Israeli friend suggests a small city-sized group of well-vetted Gazans and Israeli volunteers and investors. Access to this city would be limited and strictly controlled. And there would be no access into Israel for this group of Gazans.

I am not sure how you would go about vetting Gazans, because they could just lie and say they're ok and then the next minute turn around and call for jihad.

Gaza is so much worse than Nazi Germany because in Nazi Germany there were people who helped Jews and got them to safety at great personal risk. No such people exist in Gaza. Not one Palestinian did anything to help free the hostages, and not one Palestinian did anything to stop 10/7.

 

[AnOrangeCat]

As for those who are not willing to live peacefully alongside Jews and Israelis, well that is an impossible problem to solve. All of the options are abhorrent and none of them provide a guarantee of safety for Jews.

There is one that does guarantee their safety....relocation to somewhere else in the Muslim world.

I think it's time for the Arabs to do what Israel, India, and Pakistan did and make these people citizens of Arab countries.

Keep them in this tiny strip of land, made smaller by the emerging joint cities? With high perimeter security to prevent smuggling of weapons?

That works from the assumption that Palestinians act in good faith, which we know they do not.

Occupy the tiny strip of land with continued and strong military presence?

Forcibly displace them? To where? A "neutral" state? A radicalized state?

How do any of these options provide safety to Jews?

Well, there is a thawing of relations between Israel and Arab countries via the Abraham Accords. Iran and the Palestinians are the ones on the outside looking in and that's because of their own choices.

I think it's time for the Arab world to take ownership of the problem they created, and not expect Israel to accommodate them.

 

[Shusha]

How can you trust them to live peacefully?

• those Gazans included in the city must be well-vetted
• Israelis will also be well-vetted
• access to the city will be strictly limited to residents
• education will be jointly established and monitored (including religious education)
• financial incentives
• but most importantly, they will live and work in a mutual society. This alone will protect against radicalization.

They already get education through UNRWA, and it doesn't seem to be working. Almost every single terrorist who participated in 10/7 was once a child in Gaza who was educated by UNRWA.

Yep. UNRWA is the problem, not the solution. UNRWA should be dismantled immediately. Education must be a joint effort in a shared classroom with a blended curriculum.

I think it's easy for people to say education is the key, but what if they don't want to be educated? Are you going to force them into re-education camps?

Those not wanting to be re-educated would not be included.

Are there any successful examples in history of mass deprogramming?

Probably.

Palestinians have neither shame or guilt. It's not something you can teach someone. You either have that empathy or you don't.

I think that is a broad and unfair characterization of an entire people. If you can be taught that Jews are the source of evil in the world, you can be untaught. And if you can't, then your children can.

 

[gipper]

I think the question of how do you deprogram 20 years of indoctrination would inform the solution.

How do you deprogram 2,000,000+ cult members, most of whom have only known this way of life? I don't think there's a real precedent for it except for maybe Nazi Germany, but those folks understood that what they did was horrible, and they have guilt and shame. I don't believe Muslims have either of those or are capable of either.

The deprogramming needs to be done to Zionists. They need to stop murdering and oppressing people.

As always, you Zionists accuse others of exactly what you are guilty of.

 

[EMH]

The USS liberty waded into waters they weren't supposed to be in. They didn't identify themselves, and Israel was not expecting them to be there. (edit: also, Arab armies and ships would deliberately misidentify themselves as a tactic in the war, and other nations have done the same thing before and after) So naturally, Israel thought it was an enemy ship because only enemy ships had been in the warzone.

Was that assumption a mistake? Yes.

Doesn't this incident prove that the US wasn't supporting Israel in the 1967 war? So all the rhetoric you people have been saying about US support for Israel isn't actually entirely true, is it? The US didn't aid or assist Israel in 1967, but the USSR did aid and assist the Arab countries.

You are a treasonous f-ing liar. Every word of that is a lie...

'But sir, it’s an American ship.' 'Never mind, hit her!' When Israel attacked USS Liberty

'The Americans Have Findings That Show Our Pilots Were Aware the Ship Was American,' a Newly Published Document by the State Archives Says

www.haaretz.com

 

[AnOrangeCat]

• those Gazans included in the city must be well-vetted
• Israelis will also be well-vetted
• access to the city will be strictly limited to residents
• education will be jointly established and monitored (including religious education)
• financial incentives
• but most importantly, they will live and work in a mutual society. This alone will protect against radicalization.

How do you vet them? I don't understand how that works. How is that something that anyone could even do? Where do you start? And what's to prevent them from taqqiya and telling you what you want to hear while telling each other something completely different?

I don't like how this is incumbent on Israel to make concessions and accommodations but not expecting that of Palestinians. This proposal rewards no one who deserves it. I'm not sure there is a way to successfully "vet" Palestinians with confidence. What does that look like?

Yep. UNRWA is the problem, not the solution. UNRWA should be dismantled immediately. Education must be a joint effort in a shared classroom with a blended curriculum.

Those not wanting to be re-educated would not be included.

Right but then what do you do with them if they don't want to be re-educated? What do you do with all of them? Is that the point where you ship them out to the Arab/Muslim world? Or is Israel expected to have a sizeable contingent of genocidal maniacs on their borders indefinitely? How is that fair?

I think that is a broad and unfair characterization of an entire people. If you can be taught that Jews are the source of evil in the world, you can be untaught. And if you can't, then your children can.

You can only unlearn those things if you have shame and guilt, which they do not have. You can't teach someone to be empathetic, that's something someone has to reach on their own. And I don't see how it is possible. Again, not one Palestinian did anything to help the Jewish hostages for 2 years.

 

[Shusha]

There is one that does guarantee their safety....relocation to somewhere else in the Muslim world.

I think it's time for the Arab world to take ownership of the problem they created, and not expect Israel to accommodate them.

What country or countries, specifically, were you thinking?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Looks like the IDF is cutting of the middleman and is killing all civilians, every age and destroying every residence...because Hamas

Maybe the fanatics should stop killing Israelis........


....how's that for a plan, Abu?

 

[AnOrangeCat]

You are a treasonous f-ing liar. Every word of that is a lie...

Again, during the fog of war, particularly with Muslims who do not fight conventionally, it is entirely reasonable for Israel to believe that it might be a literal false flag. They didn't want to run the risk of being wrong, so they did what any other nation would do which was fire on them.

In WWII, German soldiers proficient in English would slip inside our lines and create havoc. That's why the soldiers had code words they could speak to one another to make sure they weren't the enemy. And those code words changed all the time, sometimes daily.

No such code existed between the US and Israel, so there was no way to verify if the USS Liberty was who they said they were, and since they were in an active warzone that they shouldn't have been in, it is entirely reasonable to assume they are an enemy vessel.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Well, geez........let me go ask all the cops who've arrested Catholics over the centuries for murdering people to get their way, killing innocent people just for the ******* hell of it, black market babies, human smuggling, running drug mules, etc...... You might want to do some research.

And WTF happened to you? You used to be civil, now you're a stark raving lunatic. Did the Dumocreeps brainwashing work on you?

"A lot of people describe Catholicism as a death cult ....."


Can you support that stupidity?


Any quotes besides yours?

 

[EMH]

Again, during the fog of war, particularly with Muslims who do not fight conventionally, it is entirely reasonable for Israel to believe that it might be a literal false flag. They didn't want to run the risk of being wrong, so they did what any other nation would do which was fire on them.

In WWII, German soldiers proficient in English would slip inside our lines and create havoc. That's why the soldiers had code words they could speak to one another to make sure they weren't the enemy. And those code words changed all the time, sometimes daily.

No such code existed between the US and Israel, so there was no way to verify if the USS Liberty was who they said they were, and since they were in an active warzone that they shouldn't have been in, it is entirely reasonable to assume they are an enemy vessel.

In both 1967 and 2023


Israel LIED about being attacked from Gaza
Israel had a planned invasion ready to go
Israel wanted to exterminate and annex Gaza



Fascists hate hoax...

Einstein Letter Warning Of Zionist Facism In Israel

 

[PoliticalChic]

From my readings it used to be in the promise land until the people demanded a king.

We have a Constitution.

Has any "king" infracted it?

Ball's in your court.

 

[JohnDB]

 

[gipper]

Hamas, your agents, support the massacre of women and children.

That's why they hide behind them.

This will overturn everything you think you know about Israeli society and the genocide you ignorantly deny. I suspect every fact he cites will be enlightening to you.

Try getting informed for once.

Norman Finkelstein on the Insane Racism of Israeli Society and the Plan to Erase Gaza​

NORMAN FINKELSTEIN JUN 2