The Many Collapses of Keynesianism

[Brutus]

You, along with Keynesians, support bailing out failed institutions rather than allowing the necessary market correction.

yes but Keynes favors government intervention everywhere all the time whereas supply side capitalists don't. Keynes wants to create aggregate demand or aggregate customers while capitalists don't. That is a huge difference.

No, actually he didn't.

actually if you read the General Theory you'll find he supported every kind of intervention including controlling long term rates. Sorry!

And calling yourself a capitalist while supporting bailouts is quite a misnomer, since capitalism is a system of a profit and loss.

actually capitalism is, generally speaking, an economic system distinguished by largely voluntary transactions, but there is a huge role for government: police, money, neighboorhood effects, bankruptcy courts etc.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

yes but Keynes favors government intervention everywhere all the time whereas supply side capitalists don't. Keynes wants to create aggregate demand or aggregate customers while capitalists don't. That is a huge difference.

actually if you read the General Theory you'll find he supported every kind of intervention including controlling long term rates. Sorry!

And calling yourself a capitalist while supporting bailouts is quite a misnomer, since capitalism is a system of a profit and loss.

actually capitalism is, generally speaking, an economic system distinguished by largely voluntary transactions, but there is a huge role for government: police, money, neighboorhood effects, bankruptcy courts etc.

Your claim was that he supported all of that all of the time, which is incorrect.

Largely voluntary transactions? Meaning there is at least some amount of involuntary transactions? Your definition of capitalism is extremely flawed.

 

[Paulie]

so please assume I'm slow and explain it another way
for me.

You, along with Keynesians, support bailing out failed institutions rather than allowing the necessary market correction.

yes but Keynes favors government intervention everywhere all the time whereas supply side capitalists don't. Keynes wants to create aggregate demand or aggregate customers while capitalists don't. That is a huge difference.

Capitalism is to be protected by government, not supported. Capitalism only needs the necessary common sense regulations authorized by the interstate commerce clause to function properly. It does NOT need government manipulation to function.

You've been brainwashed to accept certain instances where it's ok for the government to pick winners and losers, and this flies in the face of capitalism.

 

[Toro]

The Great Depression was only great because Hoover and FDR didn't allow the correction to happen. The same reason that this recession is "great." Panics, depressions, recessions, or whatever you want to call them are all examples of the market trying to correct itself which is absolutely necessary.

Hoover and FDR did not cause the Great Depression.

 

[Toro]

Supply-side economics is essentially Keynesian economics.

actually they are opposites. Keynes is demand side while Friedman is supply side. Its hard to believe you've got this confused

Actually they're not, but the two sides would like you to believe that.

There is a fair amount of truth to this.

 

[Brutus]

actually if you read the General Theory you'll find he supported every kind of intervention including controlling long term rates. Sorry!

actually capitalism is, generally speaking, an economic system distinguished by largely voluntary transactions, but there is a huge role for government: police, money, neighboorhood effects, bankruptcy courts etc

Your claim was that he supported all of that all of the time, which is incorrect.

as I said if you read the General Theory you'll find that Keynes was a meglomanic monster who felt he had the genius to fine tune an economy using all the dials available, and then some. No one can say what he would have supported in any particular situation since it would have depended on his analysis of that specific situation which, owing to his vastly superior IQ, would have been beyond comprehension ot the rest of us. Thats is why you didn't say what Keynes would have supported now.

Largely voluntary transactions? Meaning there is at least some amount of involuntary transactions?

sure, government enforces capitalist rules all the time: police, zoning money courts, pollution etc etc

Your definition of capitalism is extremely flawed.

its Friedmans definition and he is considered the greatest economist on the subject in human history and so the greatest definer of what it means! Who could possibly be more qualified??

 

[Paulie]

I find it really interesting that there's all these "free market capitalists" on here who support TARP.

I doubt it has anything to do with it being a Bush admin baby, and not an Obama admin one.

 

[Brutus]

I find it really interesting that there's all these "free market capitalists" on here who support TARP.

capitalism does not mean you can't support your kid while he is young. Tarp was better than depression-case closed. Feeding your kid is better than letting him starve to death

 

[Paulie]

I find it really interesting that there's all these "free market capitalists" on here who support TARP.

capitalism does not mean you can't support your kid while he is young. Tarp was better than depression-case closed

Depression would have been the correction that a free market capitalist recognizes as a part of capitalism.

You're not a capitalist-case closed.

 

[Brutus]

I find it really interesting that there's all these "free market capitalists" on here who support TARP.

capitalism does not mean you can't support your kid while he is young. Tarp was better than depression-case closed

Depression would have been the correction that a free market capitalist recognizes as a part of capitalism.

You're not a capitalist-case closed.

I never said I was a pure capitalist or that Friedman was!! So what?? Did someone ever say there were pure capitalists?? Nevertheless, Friedman was the greatest supporter of capitalism in human history.

 

[Paulie]

Brutus wants only the upside of capitalism, and wants to avoid the inevitable downsides of it to the extent of supporting government intervention during a business cycle to try and avoid it at all costs.

News flash Brutus: Capitalism comes with pleasure AND pain. There is always a loser in capitalism, or else no one could be a winner.

Deal with it and accept it, or admit you're not a true capitalist. I don't really care either way.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

The Great Depression was only great because Hoover and FDR didn't allow the correction to happen. The same reason that this recession is "great." Panics, depressions, recessions, or whatever you want to call them are all examples of the market trying to correct itself which is absolutely necessary.

Hoover and FDR did not cause the Great Depression.

I didn't say they caused it, I said they made it worse.

 

[Brutus]

Depression would have been the correction that a free market capitalist recognizes as a part of capitalism.

even Friedman was for intervention so who on earth recognizes what you say????????????????????

 

[Paulie]

capitalism does not mean you can't support your kid while he is young. Tarp was better than depression-case closed

Depression would have been the correction that a free market capitalist recognizes as a part of capitalism.

You're not a capitalist-case closed.

I never said I was a pure capitalist or that Friedman was!! So what?? Did someone ever say there were pure capitalists?? Nevertheless, Friedman was the greatest supporter of capitalism in human history.

I don't care about Friedman, I'm not arguing with you about him. But I do commend you for admitting you're not a pure capitalist.

You certainly aren't supportive of a free market though, I'll tell you that.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

actually if you read the General Theory you'll find he supported every kind of intervention including controlling long term rates. Sorry!

actually capitalism is, generally speaking, an economic system distinguished by largely voluntary transactions, but there is a huge role for government: police, money, neighboorhood effects, bankruptcy courts etc

Your claim was that he supported all of that all of the time, which is incorrect.

as I said if you read the General Theory you'll find that Keynes was a meglomanic monster who felt he had the genius to fine tune an economy using all the dials available, and then some. No one can say what he would have supported in any particular situation since it would have depended on his analysis of that specific situation which, owing to his vastly superior IQ, would have been beyond comprehension ot the rest of us. Thats is why you didn't say what Keynes would have supported now.

Largely voluntary transactions? Meaning there is at least some amount of involuntary transactions?

sure, government enforces capitalist rules all the time: police, zoning money courts, pollution etc etc

Your definition of capitalism is extremely flawed.

its Friedmans definition and he is considered the greatest economist on the subject in human history and so the greatest definer of what it means! Who could possibly be more qualified??

Mises and Rothbard would be better qualified in my opinion, but that's neither here nor there.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Brutus wants only the upside of capitalism, and wants to avoid the inevitable downsides of it to the extent of supporting government intervention during a business cycle to try and avoid it at all costs.

News flash Brutus: Capitalism comes with pleasure AND pain. There is always a loser in capitalism, or else no one could be a winner.

Deal with it and accept it, or admit you're not a true capitalist. I don't really care either way.

Of course it's the government interventions that cause the downside that Brutus wants the government intervention to solve.

 

[Brutus]

I don't care about Friedman, I'm not arguing with you about him.

*****you are you just dont know it. There was never anyone more important than he was in defining capitalism



But I do commend you for admitting you're not a pure capitalist.

********why commend me since no one on earth was ever a pure capitalist???????????????????????????



You certainly aren't supportive of a free market though, I'll tell you that.

******actually Friedman was considered the most supportive in human history

 

[Paulie]

Depression would have been the correction that a free market capitalist recognizes as a part of capitalism.

even Friedman was for intervention so who on earth recognizes what you say????????????????????

What's your fascination with Friedman? And why do you think there's only 2 people in the entire history of economics whose ideas we should follow?

You're ok with only 2 people's ideas deciding everything that ever happens to this country economically?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Here's Hayek calling Friedman a Keynesian.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXqc-yyoVKg]Hayek on Milton Friedman and Monetary Policy - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Paulie]

I don't care about Friedman, I'm not arguing with you about him.

*****you are you just dont know it. There was never anyone more important than he was in defining capitalism



But I do commend you for admitting you're not a pure capitalist.

********why commend me since no one on earth was ever a pure capitalist???????????????????????????



You certainly aren't supportive of a free market though, I'll tell you that.

******actually Friedman was considered the most supportive in human history

I support a school of economic thought that's MUCH more in line with true free market capitalism than Monetarism.

There's Mises, Rothbard, and Hayek to name a few notables.