The looming war over gay marriage

[Toro]

And also learn to understand that there has been absolutely nothing genetic linked to homosexuality... it is linked to a little thing called behavior..

I call BS...

So people 'learn' to be gay? Yeah, right....

Yes, we all "decide" our sexuality. Its a rational choice, just like "choosing" eating and breathing.

 

[Oscar Wao]

And also learn to understand that there has been absolutely nothing genetic linked to homosexuality... it is linked to a little thing called behavior..

I call BS...

So people 'learn' to be gay? Yeah, right....

I know, right?

Like they'd want something that could mean a game-changer in their lives and in the lives of their families and friends...

People can be so stupid cometimes.

 

[DiamondDave]

I'm still waiting for someone to justify the "Civil unions are ok but its wrong to force churches to marry people", since many churches around the country both accept and perform same-sex marriages - including the church I belong to.

How do you justify discriminating against my church in the same sentence claiming that your church is being discriminated against by same-sex marriage?

....Still waiting.

So far, I've posted this about 4 times, and no one has been able to respond to it...


Any takers?

If those churches, under their religion, recognize it in their minority belief.. that if much different than the government redefining what marriage has been known as... you see.. even if a church believes that UFO's will be hiding behind a comet to pick you up after you ingest poison... or if another believes it's leader is the messiah... or if another believes that aspiring to be a llama is the epitome of spiritual well being.... is much different than legal or governmental proclamation

What you believe, and whether your religion accepts my specific religious belief, is of no consequence.. believe you are an ear of corn for all I care... but the government does not exist to redefine an ear of corn to declare you one... and you don't get farm subsidies or any preferential governmental preference because of your personal belief

 

[Dr Grump]

And also learn to understand that there has been absolutely nothing genetic linked to homosexuality... it is linked to a little thing called behavior..

I call BS...

So people 'learn' to be gay? Yeah, right....

I know, right?

Like they'd want something that could mean a game-changer in their lives and in the lives of their families and friends...

People can be so stupid cometimes.

Exactly...all those really good looking gay guys like women, but they like to bang men? Sure...right

 

[DiamondDave]

And also learn to understand that there has been absolutely nothing genetic linked to homosexuality... it is linked to a little thing called behavior..

I call BS...

So people 'learn' to be gay? Yeah, right....

I know, right?

Like they'd want something that could mean a game-changer in their lives and in the lives of their families and friends...

People can be so stupid cometimes.

Try and learn that behavior is not just teaching... it is experience, exposure, choices, etc....

And do not forget that people make all sorts of strange choices that are 'game changers' in their lives, families, etc... and it is not biological... what next? A body mutilation gene?? Bestiality gene?? Crime gene?? Divorce gene? Child abuse gene? Masturbation gene?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

I'm still waiting for someone to justify the "Civil unions are ok but its wrong to force churches to marry people", since many churches around the country both accept and perform same-sex marriages - including the church I belong to.

How do you justify discriminating against my church in the same sentence claiming that your church is being discriminated against by same-sex marriage?

....Still waiting.

So far, I've posted this about 4 times, and no one has been able to respond to it...


Any takers?

If those churches, under their religion, recognize it in their minority belief.. that if much different than the government redefining what marriage has been known as... you see.. even if a church believes that UFO's will be hiding behind a comet to pick you up after you ingest poison... or if another believes it's leader is the messiah... or if another believes that aspiring to be a llama is the epitome of spiritual well being.... is much different than legal or governmental proclamation

What you believe, and whether your religion accepts my specific religious belief, is of no consequence.. believe you are an ear of corn for all I care... but the government does not exist to redefine an ear of corn to declare you one... and you don't get farm subsidies or any preferential governmental preference because of your personal belief

First you argued that same-sex marriages are violating your religious freedoms by forcing churches to marry gay people.

Now that you're confronted with churches that don't seem to mind, it's redefining the word.

Who defined it in the first place?
What about polygamy and polyandry? Those were defined as marriage - they still are, some places. We've already changed the definition of marriage countless times.

 

[DiamondDave]

And also learn to understand that there has been absolutely nothing genetic linked to homosexuality... it is linked to a little thing called behavior..

I call BS...

So people 'learn' to be gay? Yeah, right....

Yes, we all "decide" our sexuality. Its a rational choice, just like "choosing" eating and breathing.

No Toro.. do not confuse the natural desire for procreation or social interaction with the exposures, decisions, choices, experiences, etc that start the association with what turns an individual on...

Even experimentation into fetish behavior has shown that if a child gets stimulated in sexually sensitive areas while crawling, that behavior and exposure to the vision of feet changes the behavior patterns toward that fetish... many things influence the personal preference of attraction

 

[DiamondDave]

....Still waiting.

So far, I've posted this about 4 times, and no one has been able to respond to it...


Any takers?

If those churches, under their religion, recognize it in their minority belief.. that if much different than the government redefining what marriage has been known as... you see.. even if a church believes that UFO's will be hiding behind a comet to pick you up after you ingest poison... or if another believes it's leader is the messiah... or if another believes that aspiring to be a llama is the epitome of spiritual well being.... is much different than legal or governmental proclamation

What you believe, and whether your religion accepts my specific religious belief, is of no consequence.. believe you are an ear of corn for all I care... but the government does not exist to redefine an ear of corn to declare you one... and you don't get farm subsidies or any preferential governmental preference because of your personal belief

First you argued that same-sex marriages are violating your religious freedoms by forcing churches to marry gay people.

Now that you're confronted with churches that don't seem to mind, it's redefining the word.

Who defined it in the first place?
What about polygamy and polyandry? Those were defined as marriage - they still are, some places. We've already changed the definition of marriage countless times.

Again... I have always had it on the basis of redefinition and legal recognition.. I have never been against the true legal equal treatment....

I do not choose to redefine polygamous marriage.... polygamy is what it is...

Again... this is about governmental treatment and legality.... the government does not exist to force a church or infringe on religious belief for legal matters... but it does exist to ensure legal treatment of citizens in legal standing... so I don't care if a church in their beliefs marries you to a cow... but it does not mean that the government LEGALLY redefines marriage to include your cow marriage

I am of the opinion, and have always been, that family coupling between consenting adults is their own business... and as long as the government shows equality in treatment for those citizens, I don't really give 2 shits if it is adam and steve or adam and eve... for it is about inheritance, power of attorney, taxation, and other things legal.. not about religious matters

 

[rdean]

And also learn to understand that there has been absolutely nothing genetic linked to homosexuality... it is linked to a little thing called behavior..

I call BS...

So people 'learn' to be gay? Yeah, right....

Yes, we all "decide" our sexuality. Its a rational choice, just like "choosing" eating and breathing.

Are you telling us in a round-about way that you have "feelings"? Tingly feelings?

So what attracts you more? The smooth "swimmers" or the hairy "hunk"?

I mean "rationally" speaking, of course.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

If those churches, under their religion, recognize it in their minority belief.. that if much different than the government redefining what marriage has been known as... you see.. even if a church believes that UFO's will be hiding behind a comet to pick you up after you ingest poison... or if another believes it's leader is the messiah... or if another believes that aspiring to be a llama is the epitome of spiritual well being.... is much different than legal or governmental proclamation

What you believe, and whether your religion accepts my specific religious belief, is of no consequence.. believe you are an ear of corn for all I care... but the government does not exist to redefine an ear of corn to declare you one... and you don't get farm subsidies or any preferential governmental preference because of your personal belief

First you argued that same-sex marriages are violating your religious freedoms by forcing churches to marry gay people.

Now that you're confronted with churches that don't seem to mind, it's redefining the word.

Who defined it in the first place?
What about polygamy and polyandry? Those were defined as marriage - they still are, some places. We've already changed the definition of marriage countless times.

Again... I have always had it on the basis of redefinition and legal recognition.. I have never been against the true legal equal treatment....

I do not choose to redefine polygamous marriage.... polygamy is what it is...

Again... this is about governmental treatment and legality.... the government does not exist to force a church or infringe on religious belief for legal matters... but it does exist to ensure legal treatment of citizens in legal standing... so I don't care if a church in their beliefs marries you to a cow... but it does not mean that the government LEGALLY redefines marriage to include your cow marriage

I am of the opinion, and have always been, that family coupling between consenting adults is their own business... and as long as the government shows equality in treatment for those citizens, I don't really give 2 shits if it is adam and steve or adam and eve... for it is about inheritance, power of attorney, taxation, and other things legal.. not about religious matters

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something.

You don't think that government should discriminate against same-sex unions for all legal purposes - and you say that government shouldn't be able to force churches into performing same-sex marriages. What if a church performs a same-sex marriage - by your own statement, should the government be able to discriminate against that union for legal purposes?

 

[rdean]

....Still waiting.

So far, I've posted this about 4 times, and no one has been able to respond to it...


Any takers?

If those churches, under their religion, recognize it in their minority belief.. that if much different than the government redefining what marriage has been known as... you see.. even if a church believes that UFO's will be hiding behind a comet to pick you up after you ingest poison... or if another believes it's leader is the messiah... or if another believes that aspiring to be a llama is the epitome of spiritual well being.... is much different than legal or governmental proclamation

What you believe, and whether your religion accepts my specific religious belief, is of no consequence.. believe you are an ear of corn for all I care... but the government does not exist to redefine an ear of corn to declare you one... and you don't get farm subsidies or any preferential governmental preference because of your personal belief

First you argued that same-sex marriages are violating your religious freedoms by forcing churches to marry gay people.

Now that you're confronted with churches that don't seem to mind, it's redefining the word.

Who defined it in the first place?
What about polygamy and polyandry? Those were defined as marriage - they still are, some places. We've already changed the definition of marriage countless times.

If it's all about "forcing churches", then it must be OK if they go to a church that accepts gays.

 

[DiamondDave]

First you argued that same-sex marriages are violating your religious freedoms by forcing churches to marry gay people.

Now that you're confronted with churches that don't seem to mind, it's redefining the word.

Who defined it in the first place?
What about polygamy and polyandry? Those were defined as marriage - they still are, some places. We've already changed the definition of marriage countless times.

Again... I have always had it on the basis of redefinition and legal recognition.. I have never been against the true legal equal treatment....

I do not choose to redefine polygamous marriage.... polygamy is what it is...

Again... this is about governmental treatment and legality.... the government does not exist to force a church or infringe on religious belief for legal matters... but it does exist to ensure legal treatment of citizens in legal standing... so I don't care if a church in their beliefs marries you to a cow... but it does not mean that the government LEGALLY redefines marriage to include your cow marriage

I am of the opinion, and have always been, that family coupling between consenting adults is their own business... and as long as the government shows equality in treatment for those citizens, I don't really give 2 shits if it is adam and steve or adam and eve... for it is about inheritance, power of attorney, taxation, and other things legal.. not about religious matters

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something.

You don't think that government should discriminate against same-sex unions for all legal purposes - and you say that government shouldn't be able to force churches into performing same-sex marriages. What if a church performs a same-sex marriage - by your own statement, should the government be able to discriminate against that union for legal purposes?

If a church decides to do certain ceremonies, is not a government concern... just as I don't like voodoo ceremonies, but it is not up to government to legally recognize those ceremonies nor is government to prevent you from performing them unless the actions being taken are specifically illegal (I.E. theft, murder, or whatever other crimes)

IMHO the government needs only recognize 'unions' into family of legal consenting citizen adults for the basis of taxation, legal decision making in emergencies, census taking, mail delivery, or other legal governmental matters... it should be out of the religious matter of marriage

Hell.. I don't believe in polygamy.. but if you choose to have 5 wives/mates in your belief, that is your CHOICE... but in legal terms a legally recognized union can only be between 2 consenting adults... so you or anyone else can have that relationship for all I care... but no special treatment or redefinition by government

 

[rdean]

What are phobes REALLY afraid of?

 

[☭proletarian☭]

I'm still waiting for someone to justify the "Civil unions are ok but its wrong to force churches to marry people", since many churches around the country both accept and perform same-sex marriages - including the church I belong to.

How do you justify discriminating against my church in the same sentence claiming that your church is being discriminated against by same-sex marriage?

....Still waiting.

So far, I've posted this about 4 times, and no one has been able to respond to it...


Any takers?

See posts 94-96

 

[☭proletarian☭]

I call BS...

So people 'learn' to be gay? Yeah, right....

Yes, we all "decide" our sexuality. Its a rational choice, just like "choosing" eating and breathing.

Are you telling us in a round-about way that you have "feelings"? Tingly feelings?

So what attracts you more? The smooth "swimmers" or the hairy "hunk"?

I mean "rationally" speaking, of course.

WordNet Search - 3.0

 

[☭proletarian☭]

First you argued that same-sex marriages are violating your religious freedoms by forcing churches to marry gay people.

Now that you're confronted with churches that don't seem to mind, it's redefining the word.

Who defined it in the first place?
What about polygamy and polyandry? Those were defined as marriage - they still are, some places. We've already changed the definition of marriage countless times.

Again... I have always had it on the basis of redefinition and legal recognition.. I have never been against the true legal equal treatment....

I do not choose to redefine polygamous marriage.... polygamy is what it is...

Again... this is about governmental treatment and legality.... the government does not exist to force a church or infringe on religious belief for legal matters... but it does exist to ensure legal treatment of citizens in legal standing... so I don't care if a church in their beliefs marries you to a cow... but it does not mean that the government LEGALLY redefines marriage to include your cow marriage

I am of the opinion, and have always been, that family coupling between consenting adults is their own business... and as long as the government shows equality in treatment for those citizens, I don't really give 2 shits if it is adam and steve or adam and eve... for it is about inheritance, power of attorney, taxation, and other things legal.. not about religious matters

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something.

You don't think that government should discriminate against same-sex unions for all legal purposes - and you say that government shouldn't be able to force churches into performing same-sex marriages. What if a church performs a same-sex marriage - by your own statement, should the government be able to discriminate against that union for legal purposes?

-thereby also discriminating against that church and favoring a different church?

 

[Big Fitz]

I'm heterosexual and married with one child. For what it's worth, I think gay people should have the same rights as heterosexuals.

Gay men can marry a woman, just like every other man. Nobody's stopping them. They can even have children too. I'm sure they'll make some woman very happy.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Black men can marry a woman their own color, just like every other man. Nobody's stopping them.

I know we've heard this crap somewhere before...

 

[Big Fitz]

Black men can marry a woman their own color, just like every other man. Nobody's stopping them.

I know we've heard this crap somewhere before...

Except homosexuality is not genetic like race is. You can't stop being black, or white, or asian, or arab. You CAN stop being gay. I know a few who have.

The two are not equatable. One is an act or a belief. The other is a genetic factor. No proof that I would consider reputable has been found to show homosexuality is caused as clearly as skin color.

May as well say an Arsonist is just as free to do what makes him happy. Both are acts, and therefore that is a false analogy.

(....although pyromania is a mental disease... hmmmmmmm.... could that be...?)

 

[Oscar Wao]

Black men can marry a woman their own color, just like every other man. Nobody's stopping them.

I know we've heard this crap somewhere before...

Except homosexuality is not genetic like race is. You can't stop being black, or white, or asian, or arab. You CAN stop being gay. I know a few who have.

The two are not equatable. One is an act or a belief. The other is a genetic factor. No proof that I would consider reputable has been found to show homosexuality is caused as clearly as skin color.

May as well say an Arsonist is just as free to do what makes him happy. Both are acts, and therefore that is a false analogy.

(....although pyromania is a mental disease... hmmmmmmm.... could that be...?)

Although homosexuality is not solely genetic, there are some genetic factors that do play a part in a person's homosexuality.

And "changing" gayness isn't as simple as you think.

Some fundies treat changing sexuality like it's a "Take this pill 3 times a day and eat salad for 1 week and you'll loose 50 pounds! GUARANTEED! We'll send you your money back DOUBLED if it doesn't work!"

And homosexuality isn't just about sex. That's a fundamentalist stereotype.