The Islam Thread

[glockmail]

The Jewish Torah (God’s law) is the first 5 books of the Christian Bible, and has been duplicated and translated faithfully throughout the centuries by Jews and Christians. This has been proven scientifically many times, most notable by the Dead Sea Scrolls matching modern texts word for word, carbon dated 200-400 BC. The first book of the Torah is Genesis, which includes details of the life of Abraham, who lived about 2000BC.

Mohamed wrote the Koran around 600AD, starting with the story of Abraham. Obviously, he was not able to travel back in time and change events, so any divergence from the Torah would be incorrect, if not heretical. “According to Islamic tradition, it was Ishmael, not Isaac, that Abraham offered to God on Mount Moriah. In the Qu’ran it does not actually specify which son, but the verses, which follow that passage, speak about Isaac.” [source: mandinkapeople.com]

Christianity does not diverge from the Torah whatsoever. Over centuries Jewish traditions evolved with interpretations of the Torah that Jesus found to be incorrect. An example is harvesting sustenance during the Sabbath. His detractors wanted to punish Him for doing so, but He corrected them because the Sabbath was created for people to replenish and worship, not go hungry on a day of rest. The modern term "duh" comes to mind here.

Mohamed, on the other hand, reinterpreted the Torah against Christ's teachings.

Is this proof that Islam is a false religion?

 

[5stringJeff]

The Jewish Torah (God’s law) is the first 5 books of the Christian Bible, and has been duplicated and translated faithfully throughout the centuries by Jews and Christians. This has been proven scientifically many times, most notable by the Dead Sea Scrolls matching modern texts word for word, carbon dated 200-400 BC. The first book of the Torah is Genesis, which includes details of the life of Abraham, who lived about 2000BC.

Mohamed wrote the Koran around 600AD, starting with the story of Abraham. Obviously, he was not able to travel back in time and change events, so any divergence from the Torah would be incorrect, if not heretical. “According to Islamic tradition, it was Ishmael, not Isaac, that Abraham offered to God on Mount Moriah. In the Qu’ran it does not actually specify which son, but the verses, which follow that passage, speak about Isaac.” [source: mandinkapeople.com]

Christianity does not diverge from the Torah whatsoever. Over centuries Jewish traditions evolved with interpretations of the Torah that Jesus found to be incorrect. An example is harvesting sustenance during the Sabbath. His detractors wanted to punish Him for doing so, but He corrected them because the Sabbath was created for people to replenish and worship, not go hungry on a day of rest. The modern term "duh" comes to mind here.

Mohamed, on the other hand, reinterpreted the Torah against Christ's teachings.

Is this proof that Islam is a false religion?

Strictly speaking, no. You would first have to prove that the Torah and/or Bible are indicitive of true religion, which I believe was your unstated assumption. But, if one believes (or shows) that the Torah is true, and that the Koran contradicts the Torah, then one could cponclude that the Koran is false, and therefore any religion based upon the Koran would have to be false.

 

[glockmail]

Strictly speaking, no. You would first have to prove that the Torah and/or Bible are indicitive of true religion, which I believe was your unstated assumption. But, if one believes (or shows) that the Torah is true, and that the Koran contradicts the Torah, then one could cponclude that the Koran is false, and therefore any religion based upon the Koran would have to be false.

As Islam is based on Christianity and Judaism, I don't have to prove that the older religions are true or not. The burden of proof is on Islam, which recognizes Jesus as "the greatest prophet", then ignores His teachings.

 

[Hobbit]

I think that, as a factual text, the Torah is more credible. The Torah was written by Moses, and Genesis was a compilation of what we can reasonably assume to be previously oral traditions. The rest of the Torah is almost entirely a first hand account, as Moses was there to actually see it all. As glockmail has already shown, archeological evidence indicates that the modern copies of the Torah are nearly identical in every meaningful way to the original, meaning that deviation from the actual historical account can be considered minimal.

The Koran, on the other hand, was written by a man who was not Jewish, nor did he have a copy of the Torah on hand. According to legend, he was illiterate, and at the very least, was unlikely to have had the skills necessary to make an accurate translation of the Torah. The writing also had little connection with the original event. Even if he did compile a list of oral traditions, as Moses did, the gap was far greater by a margin of millenia, so the propensity for mistakes is far greater, and considering that the Koran itself does not actually say that Ishmael was the son Moses was to sacrifice even though Ishmael is considered to be the father of the Arab people, I'd say it's pretty telling.

That being said, it's still logically possible, even if it is highly unlikely, that the Koran is the accurate account. However, legally, the Torah must be assumed to be a more accurate account, as its credibility is backed by evidence.

 

[glockmail]

Spoken like a Southern Gentleman.:clap1:

 

[Abbey Normal]

Personally, I have a hard time believing anything said by a man who marries and soon thereafter deflowers a nine year old. But maybe that's just me.

 

[Annie]

Personally, I have a hard time believing anything said by a man who marries and soon thereafter deflowers a nine year old. But maybe that's just me.

I'm lost, unless you are speaking in regards to mohammed?

 

[Abbey Normal]

I'm lost, unless you are speaking in regards to mohammed?

Yeppers.

 

[Annie]

Yeppers.

Great minds.

 

[Abbey Normal]

Great minds.

 

[Dr Grump]

As Islam is based on Christianity and Judaism, I don't have to prove that the older religions are true or not. The burden of proof is on Islam, which recognizes Jesus as "the greatest prophet", then ignores His teachings.

That goes the same for Judism vs Christianity. It is up to Christianity to prove Judism is wrong, no?

 

[Hobbit]

That goes the same for Judism vs Christianity. It is up to Christianity to prove Judism is wrong, no?

But Christianity does not claim that Judaism is wrong. Christianity claims to be an extension of Judaism. Christianity actually depends on Judaism being correct about everything except the nature of Jesus. Judaism predicts the coming of a Messiah. Christianity believes that Jesus was that same Messiah that Judaism believes in.

 

[Bonnie]

The Jewish Torah (God’s law) is the first 5 books of the Christian Bible, and has been duplicated and translated faithfully throughout the centuries by Jews and Christians. This has been proven scientifically many times, most notable by the Dead Sea Scrolls matching modern texts word for word, carbon dated 200-400 BC. The first book of the Torah is Genesis, which includes details of the life of Abraham, who lived about 2000BC.

Mohamed wrote the Koran around 600AD, starting with the story of Abraham. Obviously, he was not able to travel back in time and change events, so any divergence from the Torah would be incorrect, if not heretical. “According to Islamic tradition, it was Ishmael, not Isaac, that Abraham offered to God on Mount Moriah. In the Qu’ran it does not actually specify which son, but the verses, which follow that passage, speak about Isaac.” [source: mandinkapeople.com]

Christianity does not diverge from the Torah whatsoever. Over centuries Jewish traditions evolved with interpretations of the Torah that Jesus found to be incorrect. An example is harvesting sustenance during the Sabbath. His detractors wanted to punish Him for doing so, but He corrected them because the Sabbath was created for people to replenish and worship, not go hungry on a day of rest. The modern term "duh" comes to mind here.

Mohamed, on the other hand, reinterpreted the Torah against Christ's teachings.

Is this proof that Islam is a false religion?

I would think Islam is more of a cult that it's followers think is a religion. Essentially it is a cult that was started by a violent manipulative man who had an insatiable sex lust, and says it's okay to lie if the ends justify the means?

 

[Bonnie]

As Islam is based on Christianity and Judaism, I don't have to prove that the older religions are true or not. The burden of proof is on Islam, which recognizes Jesus as "the greatest prophet", then ignores His teachings.

That says it well.

 

[Dr Grump]

But Christianity does not claim that Judaism is wrong. Christianity claims to be an extension of Judaism. Christianity actually depends on Judaism being correct about everything except the nature of Jesus. Judaism predicts the coming of a Messiah. Christianity believes that Jesus was that same Messiah that Judaism believes in.

It seems Glock wasn't saying that IMO....

Christianity does not diverge from the Torah whatsoever. Over centuries Jewish traditions evolved with interpretations of the Torah that Jesus found to be incorrect. An example is harvesting sustenance during the Sabbath. His detractors wanted to punish Him for doing so, but He corrected them because the Sabbath was created for people to replenish and worship, not go hungry on a day of rest. The modern term "duh" comes to mind here.

My bold. Not only that, but i have seen Christians claim several times on these boards that parts of the New Testament supercede Old Testaments scriptures regarding slavery etc...

 

[Hobbit]

It seems Glock wasn't saying that IMO....

Christianity does not diverge from the Torah whatsoever. Over centuries Jewish traditions evolved with interpretations of the Torah that Jesus found to be incorrect. An example is harvesting sustenance during the Sabbath. His detractors wanted to punish Him for doing so, but He corrected them because the Sabbath was created for people to replenish and worship, not go hungry on a day of rest. The modern term "duh" comes to mind here.

My bold. Not only that, but i have seen Christians claim several times on these boards that parts of the New Testament supercede Old Testaments scriptures regarding slavery etc...

I think Jesus said it best when he said he didn't come to overturn the law, but to complete it, and his additions were based purely on scripture. What we're really coming down to here is semantics. Personally, I see all of the misinterperetations of the ancient laws no more a part of Judaism than "God Hates Fags" is a part of Christianity.

 

[glockmail]

That goes the same for Judism vs Christianity. It is up to Christianity to prove Judism is wrong, no?

You don't seem to have an undestanding at all about Christianity. Christ fullfilled Scipture in the Torah, proving that Judaism was right.

 

[glockmail]

I would think Islam is more of a cult that it's followers think is a religion. Essentially it is a cult that was started by a violent manipulative man who had an insatiable sex lust, and says it's okay to lie if the ends justify the means?

I’m not sure if it’s a cult or religion, but what I do know that it is blasphemous and ugly, as it contradicts so much of what Christ taught.

 

[glockmail]

It seems Glock wasn't saying that IMO....

Christianity does not diverge from the Torah whatsoever. Over centuries Jewish traditions evolved with interpretations of the Torah that Jesus found to be incorrect. An example is harvesting sustenance during the Sabbath. His detractors wanted to punish Him for doing so, but He corrected them because the Sabbath was created for people to replenish and worship, not go hungry on a day of rest. The modern term "duh" comes to mind here.

My bold. Not only that, but i have seen Christians claim several times on these boards that parts of the New Testament supercede Old Testaments scriptures regarding slavery etc...

The NT does not supersede the OT. Christ fulfilled Scripture. He also corrected many then-contemporary misinterpretations of God’s law.

 

[Dr Grump]

You don't seem to have an undestanding at all about Christianity. Christ fullfilled Scipture in the Torah, proving that Judaism was right.

If that is the case (proving Judism right)
1) Why are there still Jews in the world? Why do they need to exist if the prophecies in their book have come to pass?
2) You saying this: "Jewish traditions evolved with interpretations of the Torah that Jesus found to be incorrect." If Jesus said the Jewish people had interpreted things in the Torah incorrectly, and he had done so correctly, yet Jewish people obviously disagree with him, how has Judism been proven right when Jews themselves disagree with that premise?