The Impending Death of Christmas?

[007]

The impending death of Christmas? – Part 2​

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Posted: December 13, 2004
1:00 a.m. Eastern


© 2004 WorldNetDaily.com


I wrote Saturday of the hastening effort by secularist organizations to terminate Christmas from the American public square.

I wish to look back now through the annals of history to substantiate the fact that this great nation has historically been involved in religious pursuits and that our government, under the guidance of Thomas Jefferson, even got involved in evangelization and church building.


When recognizing that Mr. Jefferson – who the left wants only to remember for authoring the phrase "the separation of church and state" – was interested in advancing religion, it becomes readily apparent that our Founders never intended government to be hostile toward Christianity or menacingly unreceptive to religious expression.

Congressional funds for church building

On Dec. 3, 1803, the U.S. Congress, following the request of President Jefferson, ratified a treaty with the Kaskaskia Indians. This treaty was significant because Congress, recognizing that most members of the tribe had become Christians, deemed to give an annual subsidy of $100 for the support of a priest during a seven-year period. That priest, as the Congress noted, was to perform "the duties of his office, and ... instruct as many ... children as possible."

The treaty, signed by President Jefferson, stated: "The United States will further give the sum of three hundred dollars to assist ... in the erection of a church."

You read that right. The U.S. Congress of 1803, at the request of President Thomas Jefferson, allocated federal funds for the salary of a minister and for the construction of a church.

The Congress of 1803 was not hostile to Christianity. The members understood the value of imparting Judeo-Christian values among the Indians. They also recognized the need for advancing biblical values among the citizenry of the young nation.

Congress agrees to print Bibles

In 1777, with war plaguing the land, the Rev. Patrick Allison, chaplain of the Continental Congress, petitioned that body for a specific need – the printing of the Holy Bible. After America had declared its independence, the Revolutionary War had interrupted the supply of Bibles. Printed Bibles had previously come to America from England and Holland, but at this time of war we were often cut off from the rest of the world. As a result, Bibles were in short supply.

The committee which received Rev. Allison's petition then submitted it to Congress on Sept. 11, 1777. The report stated: "The use of the Bible is so universal and in importance so great, that your Committee refer the above to the consideration of Congress, and if Congress shall not think it expedient to order the importation of types and paper, the committee recommends that Congress will order the Committee of Congress to import 20,000 Bibles from Holland, Scotland, or else where, into the different parts of the States of the Union."

That mandate for 20,000 Bibles never went into effect, though, because publisher Robert Aitken printed the New Testament in Philadelphia. After successful print runs of this Bible, in 1781, Mr. Aitken petitioned Congress to aid in the printing of the entire King James Bible.

The Congress responded with this resolution: "Resolved, That the United States in Congress assembled, highly approve the pious and laudable undertaking of Mr. Aitken as subservient to the interest of religion as well as the progress of the arts in this country, and being satisfied from the above report, of his care and accuracy, in the execution of the work, they recommend this edition of the Bible to the inhabitants of the United States, and hereby authorize him to publish this recommendation in the manner he shall think proper."

Mr. Aitken then published the only Bible ever recommended by Congress and it is today a rare treasure.

The lies of the left

We rarely hear of men like Robert Aitken and Rev. Patrick Allison today because the left wants to sweep their stories under a rug. Many liberals purposely disregard and disrespect our nation's religious heritage so they can bring about their own godless version of this nation. But their vision is deceitful and fraudulent.

Today, school children are barred from singing Christmas carols on the school bus (Lake County, Ill.), school bands are prevented from playing carols (Maplewood, N.J.) and school productions of Charles Dickens' "A Christmas Carol" are halted (Kirkland, Wash.).

These are just the most recent examples of the growing hostility toward Christianity that is transpiring in schools across our nation because groups like the American Civil Liberties Union and Americans United for the Separation of Church and State have fallaciously convinced educators that even the most rudimentary mention of Christmas (or Christ) is illegal.

These organizations thumb their noses at our nation's palpable heritage of respect and appreciation of Christianity.

Their agenda to purge God from America is a national crime!

The ACLU's and AU's Scrooge-like war on the public expression of faith is nothing but a deceptive and dangerous charade that has no historic merit. Through their lies, they are effectively spitting in the faces of Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Benjamin Franklin and numerous other Founders who took great pains to ensure that religion had a prominent place in American life.

This Christmas, may the spirit of our Founders ring in our hearts as we accelerate our efforts to reclaim our religious freedoms.

Merry Christmas to all (even the ACLU and AU)!

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=41904

 

[Hagbard Celine]

I didn't read your post because I have you on my ignore list, but I disagree with the premise of this thread. As long as there is capitalism, Christmas will flourish.

You're being melodramatic.

I can only assume that in your post you included half-cocked arguments about our forefathers and how they meant for Christmas to be a universal, national holiday endorsed by the government or some dumb, unfounded assumption like that. I've exhausted the first amendment "freedom of religion" argument, so I can only respond by saying "things change, get over it." Christmas is about tickle-me-Elmo now, not Jesus, and brown people have the same rights as we have, including the right not to celebrate Christmas or to not have it forced on them if they don't want it. Things change. Lead, follow or get out of the way. Or get over it.

 

[Gunny]

I didn't read your post because I have you on my ignore list, but I disagree with the premise of this thread. As long as there is capitalism, Christmas will flourish.

You're being melodramatic.

I can only assume that in your post you included half-cocked arguments about our forefathers and how they meant for Christmas to be a universal, national holiday endorsed by the government or some dumb, unfounded assumption like that. I've exhausted the first amendment "freedom of religion" argument, so I can only respond by saying "things change, get over it." Christmas is about tickle-me-Elmo now, not Jesus, and brown people have the same rights as we have, including the right not to celebrate Christmas or to not have it forced on them if they don't want it. Things change. Lead, follow or get out of the way. Or get over it.

You are responding to a post that you have no idea what it says?

I've got a better idea than yours ..... stop trying to fix things that ain't broke.

 

[Hobbit]

I didn't read your post because I have you on my ignore list, but I disagree with the premise of this thread. As long as there is capitalism, Christmas will flourish.

You're being melodramatic.

I can only assume that in your post you included half-cocked arguments about our forefathers and how they meant for Christmas to be a universal, national holiday endorsed by the government or some dumb, unfounded assumption like that. I've exhausted the first amendment "freedom of religion" argument, so I can only respond by saying "things change, get over it." Christmas is about tickle-me-Elmo now, not Jesus, and brown people have the same rights as we have, including the right not to celebrate Christmas or to not have it forced on them if they don't want it. Things change. Lead, follow or get out of the way. Or get over it.

Actually, once I read the thread, I thought it was probably mistitled. It's a good idea to learn the contents of a post before responding to it, especially with something insulting, like this.

 

[007]

I didn't read your post because I have you on my ignore list, but I disagree with the premise of this thread. As long as there is capitalism, Christmas will flourish.

You're being melodramatic.

I can only assume that in your post you included half-cocked arguments about our forefathers and how they meant for Christmas to be a universal, national holiday endorsed by the government or some dumb, unfounded assumption like that. I've exhausted the first amendment "freedom of religion" argument, so I can only respond by saying "things change, get over it." Christmas is about tickle-me-Elmo now, not Jesus, and brown people have the same rights as we have, including the right not to celebrate Christmas or to not have it forced on them if they don't want it. Things change. Lead, follow or get out of the way. Or get over it.

You're a bigger idiot than I first thought.

I think you're sneaking peeks at what I post out of sheer curiousity. So, when you sneek a peek at this, you'll see that I'm telling you I'm happy I'm on your ignore list. Now complete the job and DO NOT respond to ANYTHING I post, otherwise we'll all know you're nothing more than a liar and a troll.

 

[KarlMarx]

Well... I was going to post one of my poignant, pithy and perky replies... but "Charlie Brown Christmas Special" is going to be on and I don't wanna miss it!!!! Anyway, what would Christmas be like without Christmas Trees, lights, toys, Santa and the mad rush to get all your loved ones presents? Frankly, I wish Christmas could last longer... I love it, commercialism and all.... cause it's the time of year that I get to laugh and be merry more than usual

So with that having been said, let me throw something else in the mix!!!!!

The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) is the most dangerous legal organization in America today.

The ACLU demands that homosexual tolerance-training be required in certain schools or else lawsuits will follow. Not only does the ACLU want women to have the choice to have an abortion under any circumstance, but it wants the rights to be extended to the age of fourteen and without parental consent. It also demands oral sex training be taught in schools while calling abstinence a dangerous practice.

Louise Melling, director of the ACLU Reproductive Freedom Project said:

"Today's report offers concrete evidence that abstinence-only sex education curriculums are all too often based on ideology and religion rather than science. Studies show that the overwhelming majority of parents want their children to get all the information they need to protect themselves from unwanted pregnancy and sexually transmitted infections, including information about contraception, how to use condoms properly, and about abortion. The government needs to stop censoring lifesaving information."

Abstinence doesn't save lives? Well it does, but it might have some religious context to it, according to the ACLU, so that makes abstinence "dangerous." Did the ACLU ever stop and think that giving sexual tools and instructions to kids to use will actually increase dangerous sexual activity? Sex is never a 100% safeguarded against sexual diseases or unwanted pregnancies.

The ACLU is always finding new ways to outrage traditional America. This month, the ACLU's biggest focus is censoring Christmas, a national holiday. The ACLU is clamping down on school districts, trying to deter them from promoting Christmas in any way. No Christmas tree, no carol singing, and by no means, any mention of the name of Jesus Christ.

The ACLU says that we cannot publicly celebrate our own national holiday unlike Halloween or Thanksgiving, which is celebrated in public schools without much prejudice.

The ACLU believes that Christmas offends the beliefs of non-Christians. Yet homosexuality doesn't impose on other people's values? How biased can one organization be? Not even Ramadan or Hanukah were discriminated against by the ACLU last year.

In the First Amendment, it says: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. "

If the leaders of the ACLU ever took the time to find out why this phrase was there, then maybe they would reform its views.

England, the country that the colonists came from, had only one church and it was the Anglican Church or the Church of England. All others were illegal. King Henry the Eighth had a falling out with the Catholic Church some years back over a divorce issue and outlawed the Catholic Church. He established the Anglican Church and allowed no others to exist.

Our forefathers saw this as religious tyranny, and some groups like the Quakers came to America to escape from religious persecution. One of the fundamental principles laid down by the founding fathers was the concept of religious freedom, without repercussions from the government.

Today, it has been bastardized into the popular notion that religion (especially Christianity) has no place in our society or in any public forum. It is ironic that the laws of this nation are based upon the laws laid down in the Ten Commandments.

Some Christians are fighting back. People in the "Public Advocate of the United States" will sing Christmas carols at noon on December 8 in front of the ACLU office building in Washington, D.C. But they are not alone in this fight. In Maplewood, New Jersey, parents of the Columbia High School brass ensemble, are fighting for their rights to sing Christmas carols at the school's holiday concert. Since the ACLU will not defend the students' rights, Attorney Demetrios Stratis, affiliated with the conservative civil liberties group Alliance Defense Fund, will do so.

Let the battle for Christmas begin.

http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/mullenax/041208

 

[BaronVonBigmeat]

None of this would be a problem in the first place if governments didn't provide education. Parents could pick religious or secular schools either way.

I have to say though, the attempt to paint the founders as some sort of fundamentalist christians is bizarre. Jefferson in particular was not shy about writing about what he saw as the absurdities of christianity. Do a google search for "Jefferson Bible". Most of the founders were agnostics, deists, or freemasons.

 

[Gunny]

None of this would be a problem in the first place if governments didn't provide education. Parents could pick religious or secular schools either way.

I have to say though, the attempt to paint the founders as some sort of fundamentalist christians is bizarre. Jefferson in particular was not shy about writing about what he saw as the absurdities of christianity. Do a google search for "Jefferson Bible". Most of the founders were agnostics, deists, or freemasons.

Hardly. Most were Christians. Jefferson most notably, and a few others were not.

That being said, being a "founding father" does not give one special immunity from me. People attempt to use the term as some untouchable weapon. They put their pants on one leg at a time like the rest of us.

Jefferson was just a typical liberal who was overly-fond of hearing his own words.

Christmas wouldn't be an issue if those people looking for excuses to be offended were ignored.

 

[007]

Most of the founders were agnostics, deists, or freemasons.

Open comments such as your's above require proof. So "YOU" do a google search, and find the backing you need to make such an assertion, otherwise we're all free to say your comment is bullshit.

Here's my "PROOF" that you're WRONG...

Judeo-Christian Roots of America's Founding Ideals and Documents
Dear Friends,

Most states have now put in place a series of standards and performance objectives which students must attain in order to graduate from high school. As a member of Arizona's Standards Committee for Social Studies I was anxious to get some meaningful standards in place relating to an understanding of our roots. We were successful. Two of these requirements are that students must be able to identify fundamental principles in the Declaration of Independence and also be able to explain American moral and ethical ideals which have their antecedent in the Judeo-Christian tradition.

A number of teachers in my state have asked for resource material relating to these and other standards they are required to teach. In an attempt to respond to their request, the following is published as part of a more complete compilation called Sources. Sources also includes sample assessment questions for student study.

Listed below are a few principles or ideals to which the Founders adhered. Given immediately following each one are passages showing Judeo-Christian roots of that principle and then passages reflecting the use of the principle in America's founding documents. This list is by no means meant to be exhaustive, but only to exemplify the concept that America's Founding ideals have their roots in Judeo-Christian tradition. It should not be surprising that the Bible is quoted often as the source of the Founders' thinking for studies have shown the Bible is by far the most often quoted source in all of the publications and speeches of the founding era.

Principle: Reliance on the Providence of God​

Judeo-Christian Roots:

"For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the LORD that hath mercy on thee. O thou afflicted, tossed with tempest, and not comforted, behold, I will lay thy stones with fair colours, and lay thy foundations with sapphires. And I will make thy windows of agates, and thy gates of carbuncles, and all thy borders of pleasant stones. And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children. In righteousness shalt thou be established: thou shalt be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near thee. Behold, they shall surely gather together, but not by me: whosoever shall gather together against thee shall fall for thy sake. Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy. No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD. (Isaiah 54:10 - 17)

American Founding Ideal:

"We, therefore, the representatives of the United States of America, in General Congress assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the name, and by authority of the good people of these colonies, solemnly publish and declare that these United Colonies are, and of right ought to be, free and independent states; .. And for the support of this declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor." (Declaration of Independence. See also John Eidsmoe, Christianity and the Constitution, Baker Book House, Grand Rapids, MI, 1987, pp. 355-377)

Principle: Law of God forms basis of good human laws​

Judeo-Christian Roots:

"The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes. (Psalms 19:7 - 8)

American Founding Ideal:

"Suppose a nation in some distant region should take the Bible for their only law book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited! Every member would be obliged in conscience, to temperance, frugality, and industry; to justice, kindness, and charity towards his fellow men; and to piety, love, and reverence toward Almighty God ... What a Eutopia, what a Paradise would this region be." John Adams, February 22, 1756 (Federer, William J., America's God and Country Encyclopedia Of Quotations , FAME Publishing, Coppell, Texas, 1994, p.5)

"These laws laid down by God are the eternal immutable laws of good and evil .... This law of nature dictated by God himself, is of course superior in obligation to any other. It is binding over all the globe, in all countries, and at all times: no human laws are of any validity if contrary to this...

"The doctrines thus delivered we call the revealed or divine law, and they are to be found only in the holy scriptures ... [and] are found upon comparison to be really part of the original law of nature. Upon these two foundations, the law of nature and the law of revelation, depend all human laws; that is to say, no human laws should be suffered to contradict these. William Blackstone (Federer, p.52)

Principle: Religion and Morality form basis of Liberty​

Judeo-Christian Roots:

"Proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof." (Leviticus 25:10)

"Ye have not hearkened unto me, in proclaiming liberty, every one to his brother, and every man to his neighbor: behold, I proclaim a liberty for you, saith the Lord." (Jeremiah 34:17)

"If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." (2 Chronicles 7:14)

"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." (John 8:32)

American Founding Ideal:

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams (Federer, p. 10)

"It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible" George Washington (Federer, p.660)

"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports.... And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion ... Reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail to the exclusion of religious principle." George Washington's Farewell Address

Principle: The Equality of Man​

Judeo-Christian Roots:

"Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him. Ye shall not respect [discriminate against] persons in judgment; but ye shall hear the small as well as the great; ye shall not be afraid of the face of man; for the judgment is God's: and the cause that is too hard for you, bring it unto me, and I will hear it." (Deuteronomy 1:16-17)

"Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect [discriminate against] the person of the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbor." (Leviticus 19:15)

"God is no respecter of persons (Acts 10:34)

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. (Galatians 3:28)

American Founding Ideal:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal." Declaration of Independence

"No title of nobility shall be granted by the United States" U.S. Constitution, Art. I, Sec. 9, Paragraph 8)

Principle: God-Given Human Rights​

Judeo-Christian Roots:

"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. (Genesis 1:27 - 28)

"Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not commit adultery. Thou shalt not steal. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. Thou shalt not covet.. (Exodus 20:13-17)

American Founding Ideal:

".that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." (Declaration of Independence)

Principle: Government authority by Consent of the Governed​

Judeo-Christian Roots:

"Judges and officers shalt thou make thee in all thy gates, which the LORD thy God giveth thee, throughout thy tribes: and they shall judge the people with just judgment." (Deuteronomy 16:18)

"Take you wise men, and understanding, and known among your tribes, and I will make them rulers over you.. So I took the chief of your tribes, wise men, and known, and made them heads over you, captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, and captains over fifties, and captains over tens, and officers among your tribes." (Deuteronomy 1:13 - 15)

American Founding Ideal:

".governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed." (Declaration of Independence)

"The United States shall guarantee to every state in this Union a republican form of government" (U.S Constitution, Art. IV, Section 4)

Principle: Sanctity of Contract​

Judeo-Christian Roots:

"If a man vow a vow unto the Lord, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth." (Numbers 30:2)

American Founding Ideal:

"No state shall.pass any. law impairing the obligation of contracts." (U.S Constitution, Art. I, Section 10, Paragraph 1)

Principle: Two Witnesses​

Judeo-Christian Roots:

"At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death." (Deuteronomy 17:6)

American Founding Ideal:

"No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court." (U.S Constitution, Art. III, Section 3, Paragraph 1)

Principle: No Corruption of Blood​

Judeo-Christian Roots:

"The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin." (Deut. 24: 6)

American Founding Ideal:

".but no attainder of treason shall work corruption of blood or forfeiture except during the life of the person attainted." (U.S Constitution, Art. III, Section 3, Paragraph 2)

Principle: Sabbath Day Excepted​

Judeo-Christian Roots:

"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work." (Exodus 20:8-10)

American Founding Ideal:

"If any bill shall not be returned by the President within ten days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the same shall be a law, in like manner as if he had signed it." (U.S Constitution, Art. I, Section 7, Paragraph 2)

Principle: Separation of Church and State​

Judeo-Christian Roots:

"Render therefore unto Cæsar the things which be Cæsar's, and unto God the things which be God's." (Luke 20:25)

American Founding Ideal:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. (First Amendment, U.S. Constitution)

Principle: Teaching the Law of Liberty to Next Generation​

Judeo-Christian Roots:

"And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. (Deuteronomy 6:7)

American Founding Ideal:

"Let [the Constitution] be taught in schools, in seminaries, and in colleges, let it be written in primers, in spelling books and in almanacs, let it be preached from the pulpit, proclaimed in legislative halls, and enforced in courts of justice. And, in short, let it become the political religion of the nation." (Abraham Lincoln, "The Perpetuation of Our Political Institutions", January 27, 1838)

From this sampling it can be readily seen that no nation has a closer parallel to the Judeo-Christian tradition than the United States of America.

Sincerely,


Earl Taylor, Jr.

http://www.nccs.net/newsletter/may03nl.html

 

[Annie]

Open comments such as your's above require proof. So "YOU" do a google search, and find the backing you need to make such an assertion, otherwise we're all free to say your comment is bullshit.

Here's my "PROOF" that you're WRONG...


http://www.nccs.net/newsletter/may03nl.html

 

[MissileMan]

Open comments such as your's above require proof. So "YOU" do a google search, and find the backing you need to make such an assertion, otherwise we're all free to say your comment is bullshit.

Here's my "PROOF" that you're WRONG...


http://www.nccs.net/newsletter/may03nl.html

Noone with any common sense can deny that this nation was founded by Christians. Those same Christians intentionally left any reference to God, Creator, 10 Commandments, etc. out of the U.S. Constitution. They had witnessed first hand how easily power can be perverted and corrupted in the name of God. Did you get that? Christianity is the greatest thing since sliced bread (according to some) and they left it OUT of the U.S. government.

While I'm sure that more than a few of the founding fathers would have been happier with a more theocratic government, that's not what we wound up with. While their individual opinions are interesting from a historical standpoint, they cannot be used as evidence that we all should be all be held to, or made to follow a Christian standard. After all, they were citizens, same as you and I, no more, no less.

Whether you like it or not, we are a nation of law, not religion.

 

[Gunny]

Noone with any common sense can deny that this nation was founded by Christians. Those same Christians intentionally left any reference to God, Creator, 10 Commandments, etc. out of the U.S. Constitution. They had witnessed first hand how easily power can be perverted and corrupted in the name of God. Did you get that? Christianity is the greatest thing since sliced bread (according to some) and they left it OUT of the U.S. government.

While I'm sure that more than a few of the founding fathers would have been happier with a more theocratic government, that's not what we wound up with. While their individual opinions are interesting from a historical standpoint, they cannot be used as evidence that we all should be all be held to, or made to follow a Christian standard. After all, they were citizens, same as you and I, no more, no less.

Whether you like it or not, we are a nation of law, not religion.

And whether you like or not, this attack on Christmas is just typical, overly-dramatic nonsense. The theocracy conspiracy you fear is nothing more than paranoia. Most Christians are no more in favor of a theocracy than you. Why must you legitimize the noisy but toothless 10% who would favor it? YOU give them far more importance than mainstream Christians ever would, and you try to lump all of us in the same barrel.

There are far greater threats to this Nation than Christmas. Purposefully misinterpretting the Constitution to suit some witchhunting agenda comes to mind .....

 

[007]

Noone with any common sense can deny that this nation was founded by Christians. Those same Christians intentionally left any reference to God, Creator, 10 Commandments, etc. out of the U.S. Constitution. They had witnessed first hand how easily power can be perverted and corrupted in the name of God. Did you get that? Christianity is the greatest thing since sliced bread (according to some) and they left it OUT of the U.S. government.

While I'm sure that more than a few of the founding fathers would have been happier with a more theocratic government, that's not what we wound up with. While their individual opinions are interesting from a historical standpoint, they cannot be used as evidence that we all should be all be held to, or made to follow a Christian standard. After all, they were citizens, same as you and I, no more, no less.

Whether you like it or not, we are a nation of law, not religion.

Law influenced by religon. Do you get that?

 

[MissileMan]

Law influenced by religon. Do you get that?

Those principles you listed are not unique to Christianity.

 

[007]

Those principles you listed are not unique to Christianity.

Maybe not, but the above quotes were pulled directly out of the Bible.

 

[MissileMan]

And whether you like or not, this attack on Christmas is just typical, overly-dramatic nonsense. The theocracy conspiracy you fear is nothing more than paranoia. Most Christians are no more in favor of a theocracy than you. Why must you legitimize the noisy but toothless 10% who would favor it? YOU give them far more importance than mainstream Christians ever would, and you try to lump all of us in the same barrel.

There are far greater threats to this Nation than Christmas. Purposefully misinterpretting the Constitution to suit some witchhunting agenda comes to mind .....

Let's get a couple things straight. I've seen a lot of squawk about an attack on Christmas. I haven't seen any link to any lawsuit sponsored by the ACLU to have Merry Christmas removed from any retailers. I've seen lots of inference that retailers are "feeling" compelled to assist with some anti-Christian conspiracy, but I've seen no statements from the operators of these retail outlets that support these inferences. IMO, the only thing that motivates a retailer is money.

I have no fear of the establishment of a theocracy here in the U.S. I am of the belief that the same mentality that led the founding fathers to build a wall between church and state is alive and well in the silent majority that makes up the center of the political spectrum. The whackos on both ends of the spectrum get most of the MSM air time and some folks are misguided in their belief that these fringe elements have any real sway over our daily lives.

I agree with your use of the phrase "overly-dramatic nonsense", but I apply it to the response to Happy Holidays.

As was pointed out in the other thread on this subject, the "real" spirit of Christmas (filling Christmas wishes for less-fortunate kids) is alive and well and Walmart's Happy Holidays sign is not going to change that.

 

[MissileMan]

Maybe not, but the above quotes were pulled directly out of the Bible.

So? Does that make the constitution a Christian document? A religious one?

 

[Gunny]

Let's get a couple things straight. I've seen a lot of squawk about an attack on Christmas. I haven't seen any link to any lawsuit sponsored by the ACLU to have Merry Christmas removed from any retailers. I've seen lots of inference that retailers are "feeling" compelled to assist with some anti-Christian conspiracy, but I've seen no statements from the operators of these retail outlets that support these inferences. IMO, the only thing that motivates a retailer is money.

I have no fear of the establishment of a theocracy here in the U.S. I am of the belief that the same mentality that led the founding fathers to build a wall between church and state is alive and well in the silent majority that makes up the center of the political spectrum. The whackos on both ends of the spectrum get most of the MSM air time and some folks are misguided in their belief that these fringe elements have any real sway over our daily lives.

I agree with your use of the phrase "overly-dramatic nonsense", but I apply it to the response to Happy Holidays.

As was pointed out in the other thread on this subject, the "real" spirit of Christmas (filling Christmas wishes for less-fortunate kids) is alive and well and Walmart's Happy Holidays sign is not going to change that.

No, Wal-Mart's Happy Holidays sign will not change the spirit of Christmas. However, you are puposefully turning a blind eye to who and what retaliers are catering to by removing "Merry Christmas." They are catering to the wannabe-intellectual, PC crowd who have hijacked the term secular in their war to remove all vestiges of Christianity from this Nation.

But you are correct ..... money motivates retailers. And any retailer that is catering to the wannabe-intellectual, PC crowd of so-called secularists isn't getting any of MINE. You call it overreaction, but in truth, it is my reaction to THEIR action. I have precipitated nothing.

I am using the means at my disposal to register my disagreement with their actions. Simple as that.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

No, Wal-Mart's Happy Holidays sign will not change the spirit of Christmas. However, you are puposefully turning a blind eye to who and what retaliers are catering to by removing "Merry Christmas." They are catering to the wannabe-intellectual, PC crowd who have hijacked the term secular in their war to remove all vestiges of Christianity from this Nation.

But you are correct ..... money motivates retailers. And any retailer that is catering to the wannabe-intellectual, PC crowd of so-called secularists isn't getting any of MINE. You call it overreaction, but in truth, it is my reaction to THEIR action. I have precipitated nothing.

I am using the means at my disposal to register my disagreement with their actions. Simple as that.

I don't think your overreaction lies in not giving your business to these stores. That's completely reasonable. Your overreaction lies in thinking that this is some part of the conspiracy. As many others have pointed out, it's about one and only one thing: money. Businesses were told they could get more business by using Happy Holidays, and, according to all of you, they will learn that this was a mistake. Believe me, if Walmart thought they could make the most money by offering holy communion while you wait in the check-out line, they would.

 

[007]

So? Does that make the constitution a Christian document? A religious one?

I never claimed it was MM, and you're splitting hairs here to avoid admitting you get my point, so whatever.