The Imaginary Greatness of FDR

[Oddball]

Again, you refuse to acknowledge the facts. We goaded the Japanese into attacking, we knew the attack was on the way and FDR cheerfully let the attack occur to get the USA into WWII and finally decrease US unemployment.

See: The AVG - aka Flying Tigers.

 

[elvis]

That much has been painfully obvious for 70 years. We cracked the Japanese codes so nobody in the WH was at all surprised by the "Surprise" attack, the aircraft carriers were on newly instituted Sunday maneuvers and the fighters were stacked together on the ground so they would provide good pictures when they got destroyed.

What's new is that the Soviets had their spies in the USA and Japan direct their respective countries into armed conflict. As I said before, the Japanese should have attacked westward and helped their Axis partner dismantle the USSR (Remember Germany and Japan were Allies), instead they struck the USA, which never made a lick of sense.

No it has not been "painfully obvious for 70 years".
You claim the United States Military allowed all those men to die?
The facts:
Frank, the JN-25 codes were not cracked until January,1942. You have no evidence to show any codes were cracked other than that so where does that leave you?
Pearl Harbor was in 1941. The code cracking helped us in Midway Frank, not Pearl Harbor.
Guess what happened at Midway?
"which never made a lick of sense".
Well duh Frank. Your entire thesis makes no sense. There are zero facts to support it.
Please do not dishonor WWII veterans again Frank.

Again, you refuse to acknowledge the facts. We goaded the Japanese into attacking, we knew the attack was on the way and FDR cheerfully let the attack occur to get the USA into WWII and finally decrease US unemployment.

FDR, not the US military allowed those men to die, just like Churchill allowed Coventry to be bombed without sending out warning.

FDR Knew Pearl Harbor Was Coming

eots? is that you?

 

[8537]

So you're finally admitting that the Fed cause the contraction until 1933?

I have never denied that the Fed played a part in the contraction. I don't believe the Fed was the central component of the demand collapse, but they certainly took several steps that significantly compounded the problem.

However, they were ideologically hamstrung by classical economics - tied to the idea that money = shiny nuggets. When demand collapsed and money lost velocity, the conditioned response in a shiny nugget economy was to have fewer shiny nuggets.

So US Citizens should not be allowed to own gold. Terrific.

The shiny nuggets were at least worth something then and worth something more today; the Federal reserve note is worth maybe 5% of it was then.

Such a deal!

oh, speaking of this post...a Federal Reserve note from 1933 is worth far more than 5% of it's original value. In fact, it's probably worth far more than 100% of its original value.

 

[8537]

That much has been painfully obvious for 70 years. We cracked the Japanese codes so nobody in the WH was at all surprised by the "Surprise" attack, the aircraft carriers were on newly instituted Sunday maneuvers and the fighters were stacked together on the ground so they would provide good pictures when they got destroyed.

What's new is that the Soviets had their spies in the USA and Japan direct their respective countries into armed conflict. As I said before, the Japanese should have attacked westward and helped their Axis partner dismantle the USSR (Remember Germany and Japan were Allies), instead they struck the USA, which never made a lick of sense.

No it has not been "painfully obvious for 70 years".
You claim the United States Military allowed all those men to die?
The facts:
Frank, the JN-25 codes were not cracked until January,1942. You have no evidence to show any codes were cracked other than that so where does that leave you?
Pearl Harbor was in 1941. The code cracking helped us in Midway Frank, not Pearl Harbor.
Guess what happened at Midway?
"which never made a lick of sense".
Well duh Frank. Your entire thesis makes no sense. There are zero facts to support it.
Please do not dishonor WWII veterans again Frank.

Again, you refuse to acknowledge the facts. We goaded the Japanese into attacking, we knew the attack was on the way and FDR cheerfully let the attack occur to get the USA into WWII and finally decrease US unemployment.

FDR, not the US military allowed those men to die, just like Churchill allowed Coventry to be bombed without sending out warning.

FDR Knew Pearl Harbor Was Coming

Frank, there is some preciously sweet irony in you using Alexander Cockburn as a source.

 

[Gadawg73]

That much has been painfully obvious for 70 years. We cracked the Japanese codes so nobody in the WH was at all surprised by the "Surprise" attack, the aircraft carriers were on newly instituted Sunday maneuvers and the fighters were stacked together on the ground so they would provide good pictures when they got destroyed.

What's new is that the Soviets had their spies in the USA and Japan direct their respective countries into armed conflict. As I said before, the Japanese should have attacked westward and helped their Axis partner dismantle the USSR (Remember Germany and Japan were Allies), instead they struck the USA, which never made a lick of sense.

No it has not been "painfully obvious for 70 years".
You claim the United States Military allowed all those men to die?
The facts:
Frank, the JN-25 codes were not cracked until January,1942. You have no evidence to show any codes were cracked other than that so where does that leave you?
Pearl Harbor was in 1941. The code cracking helped us in Midway Frank, not Pearl Harbor.
Guess what happened at Midway?
"which never made a lick of sense".
Well duh Frank. Your entire thesis makes no sense. There are zero facts to support it.
Please do not dishonor WWII veterans again Frank.

Again, you refuse to acknowledge the facts. We goaded the Japanese into attacking, we knew the attack was on the way and FDR cheerfully let the attack occur to get the USA into WWII and finally decrease US unemployment.

FDR, not the US military allowed those men to die, just like Churchill allowed Coventry to be bombed without sending out warning.

FDR Knew Pearl Harbor Was Coming

And the military knew about it and allowed it.
No fucking way Frank. The military would never have allowed it to happen.
Your conspiracy theories are absurd. Your claims that FDR forced the Japs to attack and the military knew nothing about it is without any facts.
How did FDR know and the military with all of their intelligence not know?
Frank claims the codes were broken and it was not the military that broke the codes.
Who broke the codes Frank? FDR?
The military handled ALL OF THE CODE BREAKING.
And Frank would have us believe they only reported to FDR.
I didn't think you were this looney but now know for sure.

 

[beowolfe]

FDR supposedly is a Great President for "Getting us out of the Great Depression."

Here's the data set.

I see no greatness. I see 8 consecutive years of failure.

FDR US Unemployment 1932: 24.1%, 1933: 24.9, 1934: 21.7%, 1935: 20.1%, 1936: 16.9%, 1937: 14.3%, 1938: 19.0%, 1939: 17.2%. 8 year Average = 19.8%

What's so great about averaging 20% unemployment for 8 consecutive years?

One thing, you're numbers are wrong. Second, you're obvious not bright enough to understand that the lowering of the unemployment rate by 42% (if you use the correct numbers and not ones that are created to try and prove your point) in 8 years is a tremendous accomplishment. Especially since the banking industry practically went belly up, along with wall street.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

FDR supposedly is a Great President for "Getting us out of the Great Depression."

Here's the data set.

I see no greatness. I see 8 consecutive years of failure.

FDR US Unemployment 1932: 24.1%, 1933: 24.9, 1934: 21.7%, 1935: 20.1%, 1936: 16.9%, 1937: 14.3%, 1938: 19.0%, 1939: 17.2%. 8 year Average = 19.8%

What's so great about averaging 20% unemployment for 8 consecutive years?

One thing, you're numbers are wrong. Second, you're obvious not bright enough to understand that the lowering of the unemployment rate by 42% (if you use the correct numbers and not ones that are created to try and prove your point) in 8 years is a tremendous accomplishment. Especially since the banking industry practically went belly up, along with wall street.

Can you please quote the "Correct numbers"?

Are you admitting that a 20% average unemployment over 7 years, only beginning to ease with Hitler's invasion of Poland is what made FDR "Great"?

 

[8537]

FDR supposedly is a Great President for "Getting us out of the Great Depression."

Here's the data set.

I see no greatness. I see 8 consecutive years of failure.

FDR US Unemployment 1932: 24.1%, 1933: 24.9, 1934: 21.7%, 1935: 20.1%, 1936: 16.9%, 1937: 14.3%, 1938: 19.0%, 1939: 17.2%. 8 year Average = 19.8%

What's so great about averaging 20% unemployment for 8 consecutive years?

One thing, you're numbers are wrong. Second, you're obvious not bright enough to understand that the lowering of the unemployment rate by 42% (if you use the correct numbers and not ones that are created to try and prove your point) in 8 years is a tremendous accomplishment. Especially since the banking industry practically went belly up, along with wall street.

Can you please quote the "Correct numbers"?

Are you admitting that a 20% average unemployment over 7 years, only beginning to ease with Hitler's invasion of Poland is what made FDR "Great"?

That last line is where you and reality part ways, Frank. It didn't "Begin to ease with Hitlers invasion of Poland". It began to ease in 1934. It eased more each year, falling by about 40% long before Hitler invaded Poland. During that same pre-invasion period, the economy grew at record pace.

You can't both claim that the Fed caused economic growth starting in 1933 and deny that there was any economic growth before Hitler invaded Poland.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

One thing, you're numbers are wrong. Second, you're obvious not bright enough to understand that the lowering of the unemployment rate by 42% (if you use the correct numbers and not ones that are created to try and prove your point) in 8 years is a tremendous accomplishment. Especially since the banking industry practically went belly up, along with wall street.

Can you please quote the "Correct numbers"?

Are you admitting that a 20% average unemployment over 7 years, only beginning to ease with Hitler's invasion of Poland is what made FDR "Great"?

That last line is where you and reality part ways, Frank. It didn't "Begin to ease with Hitlers invasion of Poland". It began to ease in 1934. It eased more each year, falling by about 40% long before Hitler invaded Poland. During that same pre-invasion period, the economy grew at record pace.

You can't both claim that the Fed caused economic growth starting in 1933 and deny that there was any economic growth before Hitler invaded Poland.

Unemployment only started to ease with Hitler's invasion of Poland and the start of WWII.

The Fed suffocated the US economy turning a stock market correction into a crash, decimating the US banking industry so badly that the Federal government began to take it over. In 1933, the Fed took its hands off the throat of the US economy making it appear that the "New Deal" was somehow responsible for economic activity. It was clever and effective.

 

[8537]

Can you please quote the "Correct numbers"?

Are you admitting that a 20% average unemployment over 7 years, only beginning to ease with Hitler's invasion of Poland is what made FDR "Great"?

That last line is where you and reality part ways, Frank. It didn't "Begin to ease with Hitlers invasion of Poland". It began to ease in 1934. It eased more each year, falling by about 40% long before Hitler invaded Poland. During that same pre-invasion period, the economy grew at record pace.

You can't both claim that the Fed caused economic growth starting in 1933 and deny that there was any economic growth before Hitler invaded Poland.

Unemployment only started to ease with Hitler's invasion of Poland and the start of WWII.

Hitler invaded Poland in 1939.

When FDR took office, the unemployment rate was 24.5%. At the end of his first term, it was about 15%.

That's an "easing" of about 40%.

The Fed suffocated the US economy turning a stock market correction into a crash, decimating the US banking industry so badly that the Federal government began to take it over.

1. The Fed took no steps to take over the banking industry until the banking act(s) of 1933.

2. What you are calling a "stock market correction" was the largest and fastest decline in history - and the decline happened before the Fed raised rates. The Fed did...well, nothing...for quite some time while aggregate demand plummeted by almost 30%.

In 1933, the Fed took its hands off the throat of the US economy making it appear that the "New Deal" was somehow responsible for economic activity. It was clever and effective.

So you admit that the recovery started in 1933, not when Hitler invaded Poland? You simply claim it was the Fed's doing. Remind me, Frank - who appointed people to change the direction of the Fed? Who gave them monetary flexibility by removing the gold standard and stabilizing banks?

 

[Vast LWC]

This again, eh?

Let me ask you all one question:

You all rant and rave about how "Roosevelt didn't get us out of the Depression, World War II did."

What was the overall economic policy during world war II? Was it more Free-Market Capitalist or Socialist? How was this period different from other wartime periods where there was no economic boom, such as either Iraq war?

In addition, let me ask you this:

There was a 2 year period after the Market Crash before Roosevelt took office, where the government policy was strictly free-market capitalism. What happened during that period?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

This again, eh?

Let me ask you all one question:

You all rant and rave about how "Roosevelt didn't get us out of the Depression, World War II did."

What was the overall economic policy during world war II? Was it more Free-Market Capitalist or Socialist? How was this period different from other wartime periods where there was no economic boom, such as either Iraq war?

In addition, let me ask you this:

There was a 2 year period after the Market Crash before Roosevelt took office, where the government policy was strictly free-market capitalism. What happened during that period?

Overall economic policy was: win the war.

How it differs might be something like, we lost as many men in a single meeting engagement against the Vichy French contesting our landing in Africa than we lost in entire YEARS of the Iraq War!!!

There was a free market capitalism period under Hoover? Get out your pixie dust!
You're deluded. Hoover was a Soviet Style Central Planner

 

[CrusaderFrank]

That last line is where you and reality part ways, Frank. It didn't "Begin to ease with Hitlers invasion of Poland". It began to ease in 1934. It eased more each year, falling by about 40% long before Hitler invaded Poland. During that same pre-invasion period, the economy grew at record pace.

You can't both claim that the Fed caused economic growth starting in 1933 and deny that there was any economic growth before Hitler invaded Poland.

Unemployment only started to ease with Hitler's invasion of Poland and the start of WWII.

Hitler invaded Poland in 1939.

When FDR took office, the unemployment rate was 24.5%. At the end of his first term, it was about 15%.

That's an "easing" of about 40%.

The Fed suffocated the US economy turning a stock market correction into a crash, decimating the US banking industry so badly that the Federal government began to take it over.

1. The Fed took no steps to take over the banking industry until the banking act(s) of 1933.

2. What you are calling a "stock market correction" was the largest and fastest decline in history - and the decline happened before the Fed raised rates. The Fed did...well, nothing...for quite some time while aggregate demand plummeted by almost 30%.

In 1933, the Fed took its hands off the throat of the US economy making it appear that the "New Deal" was somehow responsible for economic activity. It was clever and effective.

So you admit that the recovery started in 1933, not when Hitler invaded Poland? You simply claim it was the Fed's doing. Remind me, Frank - who appointed people to change the direction of the Fed? Who gave them monetary flexibility by removing the gold standard and stabilizing banks?

Harding reduced unemployment 75% from 12 down to 4, in 2 years! If FDR 40% in 4 years was "Great" what was Harding?

As I said before, I admit the Fed stopped strangling the US economy in 1933, coinciding with FDR's Failed "New Deal" policies, that why we had "record" economic growth, it's only in comparison with an economy that was sabotaged

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I have never denied that the Fed played a part in the contraction. I don't believe the Fed was the central component of the demand collapse, but they certainly took several steps that significantly compounded the problem.

However, they were ideologically hamstrung by classical economics - tied to the idea that money = shiny nuggets. When demand collapsed and money lost velocity, the conditioned response in a shiny nugget economy was to have fewer shiny nuggets.

So US Citizens should not be allowed to own gold. Terrific.

The shiny nuggets were at least worth something then and worth something more today; the Federal reserve note is worth maybe 5% of it was then.

Such a deal!

oh, speaking of this post...a Federal Reserve note from 1933 is worth far more than 5% of it's original value. In fact, it's probably worth far more than 100% of its original value.

As numismatic, yes.

 

[8537]

Unemployment only started to ease with Hitler's invasion of Poland and the start of WWII.

Hitler invaded Poland in 1939.

When FDR took office, the unemployment rate was 24.5%. At the end of his first term, it was about 15%.

That's an "easing" of about 40%.



1. The Fed took no steps to take over the banking industry until the banking act(s) of 1933.

2. What you are calling a "stock market correction" was the largest and fastest decline in history - and the decline happened before the Fed raised rates. The Fed did...well, nothing...for quite some time while aggregate demand plummeted by almost 30%.

In 1933, the Fed took its hands off the throat of the US economy making it appear that the "New Deal" was somehow responsible for economic activity. It was clever and effective.

So you admit that the recovery started in 1933, not when Hitler invaded Poland? You simply claim it was the Fed's doing. Remind me, Frank - who appointed people to change the direction of the Fed? Who gave them monetary flexibility by removing the gold standard and stabilizing banks?

Harding reduced unemployment 75% from 12 down to 4, in 2 years! If FDR 40% in 4 years was "Great" what was Harding?

As I said before, I admit the Fed stopped strangling the US economy in 1933, coinciding with FDR's Failed "New Deal" policies, that why we had "record" economic growth, it's only in comparison with an economy that was sabotaged

Since you refuse to address the issue, I'll point it out for your:

FDR changes the leadership at the Fed.
FDR removed the chains of the gold standard so the Fed could loosen monetary policy.
Economic growth is measured as % change - and during FDR's first term the growth was record-setting.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Hitler invaded Poland in 1939.

When FDR took office, the unemployment rate was 24.5%. At the end of his first term, it was about 15%.

That's an "easing" of about 40%.



1. The Fed took no steps to take over the banking industry until the banking act(s) of 1933.

2. What you are calling a "stock market correction" was the largest and fastest decline in history - and the decline happened before the Fed raised rates. The Fed did...well, nothing...for quite some time while aggregate demand plummeted by almost 30%.



So you admit that the recovery started in 1933, not when Hitler invaded Poland? You simply claim it was the Fed's doing. Remind me, Frank - who appointed people to change the direction of the Fed? Who gave them monetary flexibility by removing the gold standard and stabilizing banks?

Harding reduced unemployment 75% from 12 down to 4, in 2 years! If FDR 40% in 4 years was "Great" what was Harding?

As I said before, I admit the Fed stopped strangling the US economy in 1933, coinciding with FDR's Failed "New Deal" policies, that why we had "record" economic growth, it's only in comparison with an economy that was sabotaged

Since you refuse to address the issue, I'll point it out for your:

FDR changes the leadership at the Fed.
FDR removed the chains of the gold standard so the Fed could loosen monetary policy.
Economic growth is measured as % change - and during FDR's first term the growth was record-setting.

So what? So what? It's measured from a bottom that FDR helped cause when he refused to work with Hoover on stopping the bank runs!

Hoover asked FDR to help and FDR's response was "See you in March, I'm on a cruise"

The Depression was Great because had first a Soviet Style Central Planner in Hoover and then an Administration openly hostile to American business, businessmen and free enterprise in FDR.

He terrified business so badly (like Obama is doing now) that he passed an "Undistributed profits tax"

FDR's open hostility to business and applying the full power of the Federal government to that task is why FDR presided over an economy that matched the 7 Biblical Lean Years

 

[HUGGY]

FDR supposedly is a Great President for "Getting us out of the Great Depression."

Here's the data set.

I see no greatness. I see 8 consecutive years of failure.

FDR US Unemployment 1932: 24.1%, 1933: 24.9, 1934: 21.7%, 1935: 20.1%, 1936: 16.9%, 1937: 14.3%, 1938: 19.0%, 1939: 17.2%. 8 year Average = 19.8%

What's so great about averaging 20% unemployment for 8 consecutive years?

Frankie you are an idiot. FDR mobilized the most highly motivated and effective military force in human history from next to nothing. His social endeavors are just mere afterthoughts compared to saving the world. Give credit where it is due...oh ya...and pull your head out of your ass...I think you have some shit on your blinders.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

FDR supposedly is a Great President for "Getting us out of the Great Depression."

Here's the data set.

I see no greatness. I see 8 consecutive years of failure.

FDR US Unemployment 1932: 24.1%, 1933: 24.9, 1934: 21.7%, 1935: 20.1%, 1936: 16.9%, 1937: 14.3%, 1938: 19.0%, 1939: 17.2%. 8 year Average = 19.8%

What's so great about averaging 20% unemployment for 8 consecutive years?

Frankie you are an idiot. FDR mobilized the most highly motivated and effective military force in human history from next to nothing. His social endeavors are just mere afterthoughts compared to saving the world. Give credit where it is due...oh ya...and pull your head out of your ass...I think you have some shit on your blinders.

Thanks for you thoughtful contribution you pooh-flinging monkey.

You got my name right and FDR did mobilize the military which got us out of his Great Depression. The issue is those 8 years before Pearl Harbor rescued the US Economy.

 

[HUGGY]

FDR supposedly is a Great President for "Getting us out of the Great Depression."

Here's the data set.

I see no greatness. I see 8 consecutive years of failure.

FDR US Unemployment 1932: 24.1%, 1933: 24.9, 1934: 21.7%, 1935: 20.1%, 1936: 16.9%, 1937: 14.3%, 1938: 19.0%, 1939: 17.2%. 8 year Average = 19.8%

What's so great about averaging 20% unemployment for 8 consecutive years?

Frankie you are an idiot. FDR mobilized the most highly motivated and effective military force in human history from next to nothing. His social endeavors are just mere afterthoughts compared to saving the world. Give credit where it is due...oh ya...and pull your head out of your ass...I think you have some shit on your blinders.

Thanks for you thoughtful contribution you pooh-flinging monkey.

You got my name right and FDR did mobilize the military which got us out of his Great Depression. The issue is those 8 years before Pearl Harbor rescued the US Economy.

You guys that cry about how someone goes about "fixing" a problem they did not create astounds me. You always demand perfect repairs and zero accountability to those that caused the problems. I liked you "pooh flinging monkey" You stole that from oddball. THIEF!!!

 

[Gadawg73]

Monday morning QBing is the fad of the year.
No matter what anyone did 70 years ago there are books being sold and written as we post to dispute it.
And gullible and naive buyers to buy.