Zone1 The Heresy of Christian Zionism

[norwegen]

Yes...read Moshe's admonition at the end of Deuteronomy.

Moses said the Israelites would be the chosen people in the 21st century? Can you be a little less vague and point to a specific passage?

Being vague is a good way to rebut, isn't it.

All I see at the end of Deuteronomy is the Song of Moses being recorded to witness against Israel's idolatry after she crosses the Jordan into the promised land.

And the LORD said to Moses, “Behold, you are about to lie down with your fathers. Then this people will rise and whore after the foreign gods among them in the land that they are entering, and they will forsake me and break my covenant that I have made with them. Then my anger will be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them and hide my face from them, and they will be devoured. And many evils and troubles will come upon them, so that they will say in that day, ‘Have not these evils come upon us because our God is not among us?’ And I will surely hide my face in that day because of all the evil that they have done, because they have turned to other gods. (31:16-18)​

“The LORD saw it and spurned them,
because of the provocation of his sons and his daughters.
And he said, ‘I will hide my face from them;
I will see what their end will be,
for they are a perverse generation,
children in whom is no faithfulness. (32:19,20)
​

Did you catch that? What their end will be.

The Israelites would live long in their new home, as 32:47 says, but obviously not forever. They were a disobedient people - pretty much every generation, especially the last, as the New Testament relates.

Now can you fixate a little better on a proper answer? What passage says this ancient people would be living among us moderns?

 

[Indeependent]

Moses said the Israelites would be the chosen people in the 21st century? Can you be a little less vague and point to a specific passage?

Being vague is a good way to rebut, isn't it.

All I see at the end of Deuteronomy is the Song of Moses being recorded to witness against Israel's idolatry after she crosses the Jordan into the promised land.

And the LORD said to Moses, “Behold, you are about to lie down with your fathers. Then this people will rise and whore after the foreign gods among them in the land that they are entering, and they will forsake me and break my covenant that I have made with them. Then my anger will be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them and hide my face from them, and they will be devoured. And many evils and troubles will come upon them, so that they will say in that day, ‘Have not these evils come upon us because our God is not among us?’ And I will surely hide my face in that day because of all the evil that they have done, because they have turned to other gods. (31:16-18)​

​

“The LORD saw it and spurned them,​

because of the provocation of his sons and his daughters.​

And he said, ‘I will hide my face from them;​

I will see what their end will be,​

for they are a perverse generation,​

children in whom is no faithfulness. (32:19,20)​

​

Did you catch that? What their end will be.

The Israelites would live long in their new home, as 32:47 says, but obviously not forever. They were a disobedient people - pretty much every generation, especially the last, as the New Testament relates.

Now can you fixate a little better on a proper answer? What passage says this ancient people would be living among us moderns?

Moses gave no timeline but explained that whenever the Jews try to assimilate, they will get their asses kicked.
You might try reading the Admonition yourself in full and in context rather than spout cherry picked verses.

 

[norwegen]

Moses gave no timeline but explained that whenever the Jews try to assimilate, they will get their asses kicked.
You might try reading the Admonition yourself in full and in context rather than spout cherry picked verses.

Why don't you read it? Say, starting from Chapter 31.

I know what it says; I just summarized it.

 

[Indeependent]

Why don't you read it? Say, starting from Chapter 31.

I know what it says; I just summarized it.

I attend shul every Shabbos and both Admonitions from D'varim are read out loud and I can read them in Hebrew.
BTW, the Torah chapters and the NT chapters and verses are not always the same.
In fact, the NT's translation sucks.

 

[onefour1]

Here is a link that explains the origins of Israel and their scattering and then gathering to occur in the last days.

12 Facts About the Gathering of Israel

 

[norwegen]

I attend shul every Shabbos and both Admonitions from D'varim are read out loud and I can read them in Hebrew.
BTW, the Torah chapters and the NT chapters and verses are not always the same.

Groovy. And irrelevant,

In fact, the NT's translation sucks.

What does this even mean?

 

[Indeependent]

Groovy. And irrelevant,

What does this even mean?

Any Tanach you quote is not exactly what the Hebrew says.
But God does swear that He will keep his promise to Avraham, Yitzchak and Yaakov that He will gather their children at the end of days and bring them, by hook or by crook back to Israel.
Take note that God is doing this not because Jews are good but because of His promise to the forefathers.

 

[norwegen]

Any Tanach you quote is not exactly what the Hebrew says.
But God does swear that He will keep his promise to Avraham, Yitzchak and Yaakov that He will gather their children at the end of days and bring them, by hook or by crook back to Israel.
Take note that God is doing this not because Jews are good but because of His promise to the forefathers.

Um, God did deliver on His promise. He led them across the Jordan.

 

[Indeependent]

Um, God did deliver on His promise. He led them across the Jordan.

Uh, no.
You have to learn how to read every verse in a chapter and not just the selected verses that make you look like a fool when you're conversing with a Torah educated Jew.
If we were sitting at a table, like I do with my Christian co-workers, you wouldn't have the balls to post that bullshit.

 

[norwegen]

Uh, no.
You have to learn how to read every verse in a chapter and not just the selected verses that make you look like a fool when you're conversing with a Torah educated Jew.
If we were sitting at a table, like I do with my Christian co-workers, you wouldn't have the balls to post that bullshit.

Why don't you just post the proper, Hebrew translation of the closing chapters of Deuteronomy?

 

[Indeependent]

Why don't you just post the proper, Hebrew translation of the closing chapters of Deuteronomy?

If you believe in God, why not spend some time learning the language by which God gave the Torah?
If I translate a word and you find a translation site that gives it the wrong meaning you will say, "GOTCHA!".

 

[norwegen]

If you believe in God, why not spend some time learning the language by which God gave the Torah?
If I translate a word and you find a translation site that gives it the wrong meaning you will say, "GOTCHA!".

No need to be afraid. Post the correct translation. I'll read it.

 

[Indeependent]

No need to be afraid. Post the correct translation. I'll read it.

It would probably take a week or so.
By the way, this site, Hebrew - English Bible / Mechon-Mamre, which is one of the "best", is horrible.

 

[norwegen]

It would probably take a week or so.
By the way, this site, Hebrew - English Bible / Mechon-Mamre, which is one of the "best", is horrible.

Of course it's horrible. You're the SME.

 

[Indeependent]

Of course it's horrible. You're the SME.

Ever try reading the first verse of the Torah?
The Hebrew word B-ray-shis does not mean "In the beginning".
In fact, the Hebrew word, ace, is not even translated in the KJV.
The Rabbis did this because they wanted Jews to know the Septuagent and any other translations by non-Jews were false.

 

[norwegen]

Ever try reading the first verse of the Torah?
The Hebrew word B-ray-shis does not mean "In the beginning".
In fact, the Hebrew word, ace, is not even translated in the KJV.
The Rabbis did this because they wanted Jews to know the Septuagent and any other translations by non-Jews were false.

I suspect you will not back up your claim. A week is as good as an eternity.

 

[Indeependent]

I suspect you will not back up your claim. A week is as good as an eternity.

I suspect you are too lazy to learn anything your priest or minister told you not to bother with.
The onus is on you because the tools are at your disposal thanks to the Internet.

 

[norwegen]

I suspect you are too lazy to learn anything your priest or minister told you not to bother with.
The onus is on you because the tools are at your disposal thanks to the Internet.

I've used the tools I wanted to use.

You're the one who has yet to do that. A week, right?

What kind of a tool is a link? Especially a "horrible" one? Can you not pull the relevant passages out of it?

 

[Indeependent]

I've used the tools I wanted to use.

You're the one who has yet to do that. A week, right?

What kind of a tool is a link? Can you not pull the relevant passages out of it?

The Jews were here and quite literate when the illiterate Romans stole our Books and translated them rather poorly.
You are way behind and all you can say is, "I'm too lazy to know the truth!".
Seriously, the second I start talking Hebrew to someone who wants to convert me, they turn White and run away.

 

[norwegen]

The Jews were here and quite literate when the illiterate Romans stole our Books and translated them rather poorly.
You are way behind and all you can say is, "I'm too lazy to know the truth!".
Seriously, the second I start talking Hebrew to someone who wants to convert me, they turn White and run away.

Yea, okay.