Zone1 The Heresy of Christian Zionism

[buttercup]

Cyrus the Great was a beno

I certainly do believe the Bible. I don't change what it says. Isaiah is about the end of the exile.

That's not what you've said before, and that's certainly not what your posts show, day in and day out.

Again, as 1 Corinthians 2:14 says, the natural person cannot understand the things that come from the Spirit. You still have not addressed that. You keep ignoring that. Why? Do you not believe that scripture?

Your preterism is not only wrong, it is so blatantly and obviously wrong that it's not even worth the time to debate it. And because you view everything in the Bible through that spiritually blind, Spirit-less, and blatantly wrong preterist lens, you're inevitably going to get pretty much everything wrong.

Which you do, daily, and most of us here know that full well.

 

[surada]

That's not what you've said before, and that's certainly not what your posts show, day in and day out.

Again, as 1 Corinthians 2:14 says, the natural person cannot understand the things that come from the Spirit. You still have not addressed that. You keep ignoring that. Why? Do you not believe that scripture?

Your preterism is not only wrong, it is so blatantly and obviously wrong that it's not even worth the time to debate it. And because you view everything in the Bible through that spiritually blind, Spirit-less, and blatantly wrong preterist lens, you're inevitably going to get pretty much everything wrong.

Which you do, daily, and most of us here know that full well.

Do you believe in the rapture?

 

[buttercup]

Just to add, I've never met anyone who denies that Isaiah was a prophet. I've encountered tons of Christians of all types, from all different denominations and viewpoints, and I've read commentaries from numerous well-respected teachers and scholars, and I've never encountered anyone who denies Isaiah was a prophet.

It's almost comical, but at the same time very sad. As someone else said to you, you strip the Bible of the supernatural, you deny the same things that the atheists deny, you read it from a standpoint of unbelief and spiritual blindness, yet you think you understand it better than everyone else here? Very sad, but I'll be praying for you.

 

[buttercup]

Do you believe in the rapture?

Not the pre-trib rapture. That's the teaching that is unbiblical.

Based on the scriptures, I believe it happens on the last day, at the same time as the Second coming of Christ. But now you're changing the topic and still not addressing pretty much anything I've said.

 

[buttercup]

It's getting late where I'm at so I'm not going to stick around and go back and forth with you. Hopefully someone else will pick up where I left off, because honestly I hate to see you post things that mislead unsuspecting people.

 

[surada]

Not the pre-trib rapture. That's the teaching that is unbiblical.

Based on the scriptures, I believe it happens on the last day, at the same time as the Second coming of Christ. But now you're changing the topic and still not addressing pretty much anything I've said.

Contradictioning what Jesus told John of Patmos.

 

[surada]

Just to add, I've never met anyone who denies that Isaiah was a prophet. I've encountered tons of Christians of all types, from all different denominations and viewpoints, and I've read commentaries from numerous well-respected teachers and scholars, and I've never encountered anyone who denies Isaiah was a prophet.

It's almost comical, but at the same time very sad. As someone else said to you, you strip the Bible of the supernatural, you deny the same things that the atheists deny, you read it from a standpoint of unbelief and spiritual blindness, yet you think you understand it better than everyone else here? Very sad, but I'll be praying for you.

Isaiah was a prophet about the return after the Babylonian exile.. he was also an astute observer. That's why so many writings were redacted and amended.

 

[norwegen]

I have read Isaiah and accept what it says. I don't have to change it to suit Hal Lindsey. It's about restoring Jerusalem and the temple after the Babylonian exile.

Isaiah seems to have been written over a period of about 300 years. The man who gave the book its name was an eighth-century prophet living in Jerusalem roughly contemporary with Amos and Hosea. The background in the first 39 chapters is Judea. In Ch. 6, for example, he relates his vision of the holiness of God in the temple.

Chapters 40-55 are the work of an unknown prophet during the exile. In these chapters, we see that Judea has crumbled and Jerusalem is in ruins. Accordingly, the second Isaiah, undoubtedly one of Israel's greatest prophets, extended a message of encouragement and hope.

Chapters 56 and forward bring us back to the homeland. The temple is rebuilt (56:7), though this remnant is still trying to find its footing under Persian vassalage. Whereas before the exile when the people anticipated an increase of the Lord's government and peace in their land (9:7), they now express a desire for Him to descend from heaven and lead them to a return to that future glory (64:1).

At the end of Isaiah, no longer was Israel restoring Jerusalem; she was prophesying the high mountain that Judea and its temple outreach should become, as expressed in Isaiah 2:2.

 

[surada]

Isaiah seems to have been written over a period of about 300 years. The man who gave the book its name was an eighth-century prophet living in Jerusalem roughly contemporary with Amos and Hosea. The background in the first 39 chapters is Judea. In Ch. 6, for example, he relates his vision of the holiness of God in the temple.

Chapters 40-55 are the work of an unknown prophet during the exile. In these chapters, we see that Judea has crumbled and Jerusalem is in ruins. Accordingly, the second Isaiah, undoubtedly one of Israel's greatest prophets, extended a message of encouragement and hope.

Chapters 56 and forward bring us back to the homeland. The temple is rebuilt (56:7), though this remnant is still trying to find its footing under Persian vassalage. Whereas before the exile when the people anticipated an increase of the Lord's government and peace in their land (9:7), they now express a desire for Him to descend from heaven and lead them to a return to that future glory (64:1).

At the end of Isaiah, no longer was Israel restoring Jerusalem; she was prophesying the high mountain that Judea and its temple outreach should become, as expressed in Isaiah 2:2.

Isaiah seems to have been written over a period of about 300 years. The man who gave the book its name was an eighth-century prophet living in Jerusalem roughly contemporary with Amos and Hosea. The background in the first 39 chapters is Judea. In Ch. 6, for example, he relates his vision of the holiness of God in the temple.

Chapters 40-55 are the work of an unknown prophet during the exile. In these chapters, we see that Judea has crumbled and Jerusalem is in ruins. Accordingly, the second Isaiah, undoubtedly one of Israel's greatest prophets, extended a message of encouragement and hope.

Chapters 56 and forward bring us back to the homeland. The temple is rebuilt (56:7), though this remnant is still trying to find its footing under Persian vassalage. Whereas before the exile when the people anticipated an increase of the Lord's government and peace in their land (9:7), they now express a desire for Him to descend from heaven and lead them to a return to that future glory (64:1).

At the end of Isaiah, no longer was Israel restoring Jerusalem; she was prophesying the high mountain that Judea and its temple outreach should become, as expressed in Isaiah 2:2.

Now you've done it.. 300 years?

For context.

Isaiah 2:2 - The Mountain of the House of the LORD

In the last days the mountain of the house of the LORD will be established as the chief of the mountains; it will be raised above the hills, and all nations will stream to it.

biblehub.com

 

[norwegen]

Now you've done it.. 300 years?

For context.

Isaiah 2:2 - The Mountain of the House of the LORD

In the last days the mountain of the house of the LORD will be established as the chief of the mountains; it will be raised above the hills, and all nations will stream to it.

biblehub.com

They referred to nations as mountains. Daniel called the coming nation of saints a mountain, too - God's kingdom a stone that after the first century would become a great mountain and fill the earth.

So when Jesus said his apostles would cast this faithless mountain into the sea (Mt 21:20-22), what do you suppose he was referring to?

Here's a hint: it starts with I and ends with srael.

Now I've really gone and done it.

 

[surada]

They referred to nations as mountains. Daniel called the coming nation of saints a mountain, too - God's kingdom a stone that after the first century would become a great mountain and fill the earth.

So when Jesus said his apostles would cast this faithless mountain into the sea (Mt 21:20-22), what do you suppose he was referring to?

Here's a hint: it starts with I and ends with srael.

Now I've really gone and done it.

Yep. You've done it now.

Makes perfect sense to me. It takes some work to understand the symbolism.

 

[norwegen]

Yep. You've done it now.

Makes perfect sense to me. It takes some work to understand the symbolism.

As for the 300 years, that was quite normal, too. We regard their Law as Mosaic although legislation subsequent to Moses was not Moses' responsibility. St. Paul didn't actually pen his Letter to the Romans, either: a disciple did.

Similarly, prophets were not isolated individuals. Disciples would continue their work. The Baptist had disciples, as the Bible emphatically states (Jn 1:35). Prophets founded schools unto themselves, so to speak, their disciples bound by their teachings and called to continue their work.

 

[surada]

As for the 300 years, that was quite normal, too. We regard their Law as Mosaic although legislation subsequent to Moses was not Moses' responsibility. St. Paul didn't actually pen his Letter to the Romans, either: a disciple did.

Similarly, prophets were not isolated individuals. Disciples would continue their work. The Baptist had disciples, as the Bible emphatically states (Jn 1:35). Prophets founded schools unto themselves, so to speak, their disciples bound by their teachings and called to continue their work.

buttercup

Yes. Yes! The Old Testament talks about schools for prophets.

Training the Prophetic Voice, Part 3: The Schools of the Prophets • Educational Renaissance

The schools of the prophets were centers of training in the Old Testament that provide educational ideas to train the prophetic voice today.

educationalrenaissance.com

 

[Polishprince]

Americans have had lively debates about religious dogmas since before the era of colonialism ended in 1776.

Nothing wrong with that, countless religious movements and disagreements have come up and will continue to come up.

But I get the sneaking suspicion that most of the flack against dispensationalism isn't from sincere Christians with an honest disagreement, but instead from non-Christians seeking to sows seeds of discord because of they disagree with the political positions of some of the leading dispensationalists like the tremendous theologian Pat Robertson.

Maybe I'm wrong, but there tends to be little name-calling against the religious left who push for Adam and Steve being put in the Garden.

 

[surada]

Americans have had lively debates about religious dogmas since before the era of colonialism ended in 1776.

Nothing wrong with that, countless religious movements and disagreements have come up and will continue to come up.

But I get the sneaking suspicion that most of the flack against dispensationalism isn't from sincere Christians with an honest disagreement, but instead from non-Christians seeking to sows seeds of discord because of they disagree with the political positions of some of the leading dispensationalists like the tremendous theologian Pat Robertson.

Maybe I'm wrong, but there tends to be little name-calling against the religious left who push for Adam and Steve being put in the Garden.

Nah... Many people think the story of Adam and Eve is about the transition from when hunter-gatherers stopped depending on God's providence and became agricultural societies.. had nothing to do with gay people.