The evolution of God and the rapture

[BreezeWood]

I know, that's what I was saying. Why wouldn't they have passed down the stories of the one true god? Why would 1000 gods be made up? What would be the need? They would have already had the one true god.
However, that would actually help explain how so many gods had the same story as the Abrahamic god before its start..
Goodness, I love discussing things!

another false premise. Nobody said the false gods are made up.The bible certain doesn't. It says no gods before God.

.

another false premise. Nobody said the false gods are made up.The bible certain doesn't. It says no gods before God.

that is from Antiquity the spoken religion, your 4th century book is a copy. however correct.

Nothing wrong with a good copy.

.

Nothing wrong with a good copy.

if it were that type of copy christians would not run from knowing there are as many god's as those who may attain the feat - what is not correct is their belief satan would still be alive having attempted to change the formula for admission by becoming evil.

Oh look, yet another false premise.

.

Oh look, yet another false premise.

the same as everyone is born a sinner ... .

so many errors as to deliberately have the purpose of entrapment, your 4th century book. are you afraid to print the truth, kosher.

 

[BreezeWood]

I hate lying atheists who present lies and pretend those lies are evidence that Chistians are stupid.

I hate liars. Children of Satan, spawn of the devil. Deceivers, idolators. No wonder you hate Christians. All liars do.

No. Christians saying and doing stupid stuff are evidence of Christians being stupid.

If they say so much stupid stuff, one wonders why y'all must lie about what they say and believe.

Meanwhile, the Rapture in the bible:

1 Thessalonians 4:13-17King James Version (KJV)
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

So yeah, TN is lying when he says "the concept of the rapture" is only a couple of hundred years ago.

Liar.

I was always taught that was about the second coming. Not a "rapture"
Also, I will ask again, doesn't that entire concept of a rapture go against the basic principles of Christianity?

How can it go against the basic principles of Christianity if it's described in the bible as what we can anticipate?

"There are many Christians who believe that the second coming of Jesus Christ will be in two phases. First He will come for believers, both living and dead, in the “rapture”; read 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17. In this view, the rapture—which is the transformation and catching up of all Christians, dead or alive, to meet Christ in the air—will be secret, for it will be unknown to the world of unbelievers at the time of its happening."

"All Christians do not agree on every detail of what will occur in the final events of this world’s history. Some of these events and their order of occurrence have simply not been made clear in the Bible. What is important is that all Christians hold in common that Christ will ultimately return bodily, visibly, and gloriously to reign and rule with His resurrected and transformed saints forever and ever. The details of this great event will be made known in God’s own time."


What is the rapture?

.

In this view, the rapture—which is the transformation and catching up of all Christians, dead or alive, to meet Christ in the air—will be secret, for it will be unknown to the world of unbelievers at the time of its happening."

... for it will be unknown to the world of unbelievers at the time of its happening.

is that by coincidence everyone who has not read your 4th century book.

 

[koshergrl]

I hate lying atheists who present lies and pretend those lies are evidence that Chistians are stupid.

I hate liars. Children of Satan, spawn of the devil. Deceivers, idolators. No wonder you hate Christians. All liars do.

No. Christians saying and doing stupid stuff are evidence of Christians being stupid.

If they say so much stupid stuff, one wonders why y'all must lie about what they say and believe.

Meanwhile, the Rapture in the bible:

1 Thessalonians 4:13-17King James Version (KJV)
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

So yeah, TN is lying when he says "the concept of the rapture" is only a couple of hundred years ago.

Liar.

I was always taught that was about the second coming. Not a "rapture"
Also, I will ask again, doesn't that entire concept of a rapture go against the basic principles of Christianity?

How can it go against the basic principles of Christianity if it's described in the bible as what we can anticipate?

"There are many Christians who believe that the second coming of Jesus Christ will be in two phases. First He will come for believers, both living and dead, in the “rapture”; read 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17. In this view, the rapture—which is the transformation and catching up of all Christians, dead or alive, to meet Christ in the air—will be secret, for it will be unknown to the world of unbelievers at the time of its happening."

"All Christians do not agree on every detail of what will occur in the final events of this world’s history. Some of these events and their order of occurrence have simply not been made clear in the Bible. What is important is that all Christians hold in common that Christ will ultimately return bodily, visibly, and gloriously to reign and rule with His resurrected and transformed saints forever and ever. The details of this great event will be made known in God’s own time."


What is the rapture?

.

In this view, the rapture—which is the transformation and catching up of all Christians, dead or alive, to meet Christ in the air—will be secret, for it will be unknown to the world of unbelievers at the time of its happening."

... for it will be unknown to the world of unbelievers at the time of its happening.

is that by coincidence everyone who has not read your 4th century book.

that isn't even a complete sentence.
It appears to still be a false premise, however, and as such verification that you have no interest in intelligent discussion. All you want to do is point, gibber, and spasm.

 

[BreezeWood]

No. Christians saying and doing stupid stuff are evidence of Christians being stupid.

If they say so much stupid stuff, one wonders why y'all must lie about what they say and believe.

Meanwhile, the Rapture in the bible:

1 Thessalonians 4:13-17King James Version (KJV)
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

So yeah, TN is lying when he says "the concept of the rapture" is only a couple of hundred years ago.

Liar.

I was always taught that was about the second coming. Not a "rapture"
Also, I will ask again, doesn't that entire concept of a rapture go against the basic principles of Christianity?

How can it go against the basic principles of Christianity if it's described in the bible as what we can anticipate?

"There are many Christians who believe that the second coming of Jesus Christ will be in two phases. First He will come for believers, both living and dead, in the “rapture”; read 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17. In this view, the rapture—which is the transformation and catching up of all Christians, dead or alive, to meet Christ in the air—will be secret, for it will be unknown to the world of unbelievers at the time of its happening."

"All Christians do not agree on every detail of what will occur in the final events of this world’s history. Some of these events and their order of occurrence have simply not been made clear in the Bible. What is important is that all Christians hold in common that Christ will ultimately return bodily, visibly, and gloriously to reign and rule with His resurrected and transformed saints forever and ever. The details of this great event will be made known in God’s own time."


What is the rapture?

.

In this view, the rapture—which is the transformation and catching up of all Christians, dead or alive, to meet Christ in the air—will be secret, for it will be unknown to the world of unbelievers at the time of its happening."

... for it will be unknown to the world of unbelievers at the time of its happening.

is that by coincidence everyone who has not read your 4th century book.

that isn't even a complete sentence.
It appears to still be a false premise, however, and as such verification that you have no interest in intelligent discussion. All you want to do is point, gibber, and spasm.

.

that isn't even a complete sentence.
It appears to still be a false premise, however, and as such verification that you have no interest in intelligent discussion. All you want to do is point, gibber, and spasm.

..........

for it will be unknown to the world of unbelievers at the time of its happening."

is that by coincidence everyone who has not read your 4th century book.

the sentence is or is not a false premise and in fact was a simple question, the premise of which (world of unbelievers) was the subject matter - what other source than your 4th century book do you draw your conclusions from that would make them authentic.

 

[Penelope]

God's been evolving? I thought Christians didn't believe in evolution.

Got a couple things I would like to discuss.

1 - Why has God been evolving for thousands of years? Does he speak to the church leaders or something? Or do we just make it up? Maybe to fit in more with the times?
Whats the point of giving your life to a God when you don't even know who it really is?

2 - The rapture. Why do Christians believe in the Rapture? Do they realize the idea of a rapture is only a couple hundred years old? If the rapture was real, wouldn't Christians have been talking about it for millennia? Did John Darby fool all of the Christians? Or were ancient Christians, including the ones who wrote the religion, ignorant?

1. If someone claims they hear the voice of God, admit them to psych unit, as they can be very dangerous.
Its best to live like there is no afterlife as its never been proven, and then one cherishes each day of life and the life of others.

2. The rapture in my book was 70ad with the destruction of Jerusalem and has never ended. We live on by what we leave behind. In other words Pay it Forward.

Some people claim to speak to god by simple illusions or dreams. They cant comprehend it any other way. That's my opinion, at least.
Your book spoke of a rapture? What book is that?

If God spoke to you, well your head would explode and you would not understand the divine.

No one since the days of Moses have heard the word of God.

He didn't either, whoever Moses was.

 

[Mickiel]

Got a couple things I would like to discuss.

1 - Why has God been evolving for thousands of years? Does he speak to the church leaders or something? Or do we just make it up? Maybe to fit in more with the times?
Whats the point of giving your life to a God when you don't even know who it really is?

2 - The rapture. Why do Christians believe in the Rapture? Do they realize the idea of a rapture is only a couple hundred years old? If the rapture was real, wouldn't Christians have been talking about it for millennia? Did John Darby fool all of the Christians? Or were ancient Christians, including the ones who wrote the religion, ignorant?

1. I believe in God myself , and I would agree that he is evolving. I don't completely know how or in what ways , but I have found a little bit of evidence in scripture. In Psalms 104:2 it says that God " Covered himself with light as a garment"; which means to me that at one time he was not covered in light. So that is a change or an evolution. There is a scripture that states God does not Change, but I think that means his standards and ways of being do not change ; or his character does not change. But I think God is evolving ; in Job 40:10 it states that God " Decked himself with majesty and excellency, and arrayed himself with glory and beauty." This highly suggest to me that means at one time, God was not decked with those things, or he would not have had to do that to himself. I view that as some evidence of him evolving. But I think hardly no believers in God would even agree with me here , these can be radical beliefs. But its what I see.

In my view, God does not speak to anyone in our times , but I think he may in times to come, but not now, or since Jesus left the earth, in my view.

Giving your life to God, without knowing him, is indeed an act of faith; a sort of gamble ; a decision based on things other than your seeing him, because I don't believe any human now knows God; notice Job 36:26 " God is great , we know him not." And of course most believers in him would NEVER admit that they do not know God; I know that I do not.

As far as the rapture, in my view it is meaningless whether one believes in it or not. It is biblically unimportant and has absolutely nothing to do with salvation or our future.

 

[HaShev]

Got a couple things I would like to discuss.

1 - Why has God been evolving for thousands of years? Does he speak to the church leaders or something? Or do we just make it up? Maybe to fit in more with the times?
Whats the point of giving your life to a God when you don't even know who it really is?

2 - The rapture. Why do Christians believe in the Rapture? Do they realize the idea of a rapture is only a couple hundred years old? If the rapture was real, wouldn't Christians have been talking about it for millennia? Did John Darby fool all of the Christians? Or were ancient Christians, including the ones who wrote the religion, ignorant?

The rapture debacle comes from missinterpretation that stems from the lack of knowledge of Biblical era slang and poetic usage of words describing appearances.
Theslonians which is based on Daniels vision uses the word "clouds" meaning
"gathering of hosts" i.e. Temple Priests.
The enraptured (exciting fervor) of the holy procession to "go up" to Mt Zion to see the Head(arch) Priest (Kohanim) in the gathering of Kohanim at the Temple in his name.
1)Jesus was not son of man, he(one of the figures used for his image) was speaking of son of man to come third person tense.
2)to come out of of with clouds meant out of the Aaronic lineage(Kohanim) or with the gathering of Kohanim to the Temple (Mikdash)in his name.
3)to go up to the clouds is up to Mt Zion for this gathering procession.

When people steal -plagiarize and lie to place a figure into text the outcome is very visably exposed and many times comical, and this error of a mere use of a word is one of those exposed hillarious mistakes.

 

[Votto]

Got a couple things I would like to discuss.

1 - Why has God been evolving for thousands of years? Does he speak to the church leaders or something? Or do we just make it up? Maybe to fit in more with the times?
Whats the point of giving your life to a God when you don't even know who it really is?

2 - The rapture. Why do Christians believe in the Rapture? Do they realize the idea of a rapture is only a couple hundred years old? If the rapture was real, wouldn't Christians have been talking about it for millennia? Did John Darby fool all of the Christians? Or were ancient Christians, including the ones who wrote the religion, ignorant?

There is a consistent theme in the Bible, and that is, as man rejects God he ventures towards destruction.

We are first introduced to this idea in the garden. Man sinned and died. Then we have the example of Noah. Men lived a thousand years and were able to inflict great wickedness within society. Just imagine Hitler living a thousand years. We are told that if God had not intervened and destroyed the wickedeness with the flood and cut lives short to a little over a 100 years, society would have destroyed itself.

Then we see the Hebrew nation being set up by God. They had no king, just judges to keep the peace. Well that was not good enough for the people as the clamored for a king. God warned them around having a king and the abuses a corrupt sinner would bring with such power. But the people refused to listen and he gave them their king. What we then read after are all the abuses of power God warned about as the Hebrew nation circled the drain and was dissolved, so that Hitler could later round them up and exterminate them as they were scattered among the nations.

We are then told that just as in the days of Noah, man will revert to their self destructive mode. We see the beginnings of this around the world today. There are limitless ways man can destroy himself, and we are told that if the Messiah does not return, man will do just that.

It's a recurrent theme dingleberry.

 

[BreezeWood]

Got a couple things I would like to discuss.

1 - Why has God been evolving for thousands of years? Does he speak to the church leaders or something? Or do we just make it up? Maybe to fit in more with the times?
Whats the point of giving your life to a God when you don't even know who it really is?

2 - The rapture. Why do Christians believe in the Rapture? Do they realize the idea of a rapture is only a couple hundred years old? If the rapture was real, wouldn't Christians have been talking about it for millennia? Did John Darby fool all of the Christians? Or were ancient Christians, including the ones who wrote the religion, ignorant?

There is a consistent theme in the Bible, and that is, as man rejects God he ventures towards destruction.

We are first introduced to this idea in the garden. Man sinned and died. Then we have the example of Noah. Men lived a thousand years and were able to inflict great wickedness within society. Just imagine Hitler living a thousand years. We are told that if God had not intervened and destroyed the wickedeness with the flood and cut lives short to a little over a 100 years, society would have destroyed itself.

Then we see the Hebrew nation being set up by God. They had no king, just judges to keep the peace. Well that was not good enough for the people as the clamored for a king. God warned them around having a king and the abuses a corrupt sinner would bring with such power. But the people refused to listen and he gave them their king. What we then read after are all the abuses of power God warned about as the Hebrew nation circled the drain and was dissolved, so that Hitler could later round them up and exterminate them as they were scattered among the nations.

We are then told that just as in the days of Noah, man will revert to their self destructive mode. We see the beginnings of this around the world today. There are limitless ways man can destroy himself, and we are told that if the Messiah does not return, man will do just that.

It's a recurrent theme dingleberry.

.

There are limitless ways man can destroy himself, and we are told that if the Messiah does not return, man will do just that.

another phony storybook religion, the above is nothing more than a gratuitous appeal for illiteracy and dependence rather than the Spiritually self-directed remedy prescribed by the true religion of the 1st century.

for the jews and christians, the return of the Almighty for their sake had better be for a reason to give final judgement than their hope for being saved from the rest of humanity.

 

[LadyGunSlinger]

Got a couple things I would like to discuss.

1 - Why has God been evolving for thousands of years? Does he speak to the church leaders or something? Or do we just make it up? Maybe to fit in more with the times?
Whats the point of giving your life to a God when you don't even know who it really is?

2 - The rapture. Why do Christians believe in the Rapture? Do they realize the idea of a rapture is only a couple hundred years old? If the rapture was real, wouldn't Christians have been talking about it for millennia? Did John Darby fool all of the Christians? Or were ancient Christians, including the ones who wrote the religion, ignorant?

1) YHVH (Yah, God- the unspeakable name of God) is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. His word, (Who he is) never changes.

2) In regard to the rapture, there is one scripture that references a type of rapture if you will but nothing concrete. YHVH (Yah, God- the unspeakable name of God) tells us some of his word is meant to remain a mystery. For me personally, this isn't the most important event that I concern myself with regarding my salvation. I have enough faith to believe that YAH's grace is sufficient and that no matter what takes place, he will never leave me nor forsake me.

 

[yiostheoy]

Got a couple things I would like to discuss.

1 - Why has God been evolving for thousands of years? Does he speak to the church leaders or something? Or do we just make it up? Maybe to fit in more with the times?
Whats the point of giving your life to a God when you don't even know who it really is?

2 - The rapture. Why do Christians believe in the Rapture? Do they realize the idea of a rapture is only a couple hundred years old? If the rapture was real, wouldn't Christians have been talking about it for millennia? Did John Darby fool all of the Christians? Or were ancient Christians, including the ones who wrote the religion, ignorant?

Eusebius tried to warn everybody that the Book Of Revelation was a fraud.

But nobody would listen to him.

He was right.

Now you have all this Protestant crap based on the Bk Of Rev.

Pure crap.

 

[yiostheoy]

God's been evolving? I thought Christians didn't believe in evolution.

While that was funny, I am looking for actual discussion.
I am agnostic as they come, but religion(rather, the concept of a god in general) is one of the most fascinating things to me. God and space.
I seriously wonder about the OP.

Agnosticism is the most logical approach for anyone steeped in Science and weak in Philosophy.

What you yourself specifically need to be careful about is making Science your Religion. That would then be a double fallacy.

 

[yiostheoy]

Got a couple things I would like to discuss.

1 - Why has God been evolving for thousands of years? Does he speak to the church leaders or something? Or do we just make it up? Maybe to fit in more with the times?
Whats the point of giving your life to a God when you don't even know who it really is?

2 - The rapture. Why do Christians believe in the Rapture? Do they realize the idea of a rapture is only a couple hundred years old? If the rapture was real, wouldn't Christians have been talking about it for millennia? Did John Darby fool all of the Christians? Or were ancient Christians, including the ones who wrote the religion, ignorant?

I have all your answers right here- There is no "god"

... Atheist bull sh!t.

Bravo.

 

[yiostheoy]

Got a couple things I would like to discuss.

1 - Why has God been evolving for thousands of years? Does he speak to the church leaders or something? Or do we just make it up? Maybe to fit in more with the times?
Whats the point of giving your life to a God when you don't even know who it really is?

2 - The rapture. Why do Christians believe in the Rapture? Do they realize the idea of a rapture is only a couple hundred years old? If the rapture was real, wouldn't Christians have been talking about it for millennia? Did John Darby fool all of the Christians? Or were ancient Christians, including the ones who wrote the religion, ignorant?

I have all your answers right here- There is no "god"

Perhaps, but that doesn't answer my questions. This is about theology and facts. Not your personal beliefs.

Atheists will always give you bull sh!t.

Always have.

Always will.

 

[yiostheoy]

God's been evolving? I thought Christians didn't believe in evolution.

Got a couple things I would like to discuss.

1 - Why has God been evolving for thousands of years? Does he speak to the church leaders or something? Or do we just make it up? Maybe to fit in more with the times?
Whats the point of giving your life to a God when you don't even know who it really is?

2 - The rapture. Why do Christians believe in the Rapture? Do they realize the idea of a rapture is only a couple hundred years old? If the rapture was real, wouldn't Christians have been talking about it for millennia? Did John Darby fool all of the Christians? Or were ancient Christians, including the ones who wrote the religion, ignorant?

1. If someone claims they hear the voice of God, admit them to psych unit, as they can be very dangerous.
Its best to live like there is no afterlife as its never been proven, and then one cherishes each day of life and the life of others.

2. The rapture in my book was 70ad with the destruction of Jerusalem and has never ended. We live on by what we leave behind. In other words Pay it Forward.

I pretty much agree with this also. Not just 70 A.D. but also the next 50 years as the Romans pretty much drove the Jews out of Judea.

It all culminated around 130 AD.

 

[yiostheoy]

Got a couple things I would like to discuss.

1 - Why has God been evolving for thousands of years? Does he speak to the church leaders or something? Or do we just make it up? Maybe to fit in more with the times?
Whats the point of giving your life to a God when you don't even know who it really is?

2 - The rapture. Why do Christians believe in the Rapture? Do they realize the idea of a rapture is only a couple hundred years old? If the rapture was real, wouldn't Christians have been talking about it for millennia? Did John Darby fool all of the Christians? Or were ancient Christians, including the ones who wrote the religion, ignorant?

I have all your answers right here- There is no "god"

Perhaps, but that doesn't answer my questions. This is about theology and facts. Not your personal beliefs.

If my personal belief is true, then it does answer all your questions. If my personal belief is not true, I have yet to see refuting evidence.

Iggy for the piggy.

as in pig headed piggy.

 

[yiostheoy]

Got a couple things I would like to discuss.

1 - Why has God been evolving for thousands of years? Does he speak to the church leaders or something? Or do we just make it up? Maybe to fit in more with the times?
Whats the point of giving your life to a God when you don't even know who it really is?

2 - The rapture. Why do Christians believe in the Rapture? Do they realize the idea of a rapture is only a couple hundred years old? If the rapture was real, wouldn't Christians have been talking about it for millennia? Did John Darby fool all of the Christians? Or were ancient Christians, including the ones who wrote the religion, ignorant?

You start with false premises. When you do that, it's impossible to engage in meaningful discussion.

Ok everybody, koshergrl is one of our smarties here.

She is very intellectual and a good writer.

Baptist by upbringing. But still drinks alcohol that sacred elixir.

She gets carried away sometimes because she is so smart.

I don't hold that against her.

I like her recipes the most.

This is an ad hom in the positive sense.

But all positive ad hom's include an elucidation of limitations as well.

So be it.

 

[yiostheoy]

Got a couple things I would like to discuss.

1 - Why has God been evolving for thousands of years? Does he speak to the church leaders or something? Or do we just make it up? Maybe to fit in more with the times?
Whats the point of giving your life to a God when you don't even know who it really is?

2 - The rapture. Why do Christians believe in the Rapture? Do they realize the idea of a rapture is only a couple hundred years old? If the rapture was real, wouldn't Christians have been talking about it for millennia? Did John Darby fool all of the Christians? Or were ancient Christians, including the ones who wrote the religion, ignorant?

Caught up were the words written, rapture is a word used by preachers. Why did people believe for a millennia that the earth was flat? Because someone told them it was and they believed it. God is the same today as yesterday. It is the humans that catch up in the knowledge of the spirit of God and what was written is merely confirmation when that spirit moves inside of you.

So all those people before are in hell because they believed the wrong things, and only within the last few hundred years have we figured it out?

If you are going to follow Jesus as your God (or Son Of God) then you need to take Him or leave Him. You can't complain about him.

If you complain about Him they you are obviously NOT Christian.

So what do you believe then ? Buddha ?? Confucius ?? Zoroaster ?? Allah (God forbid) ??

 

[yiostheoy]

Science says we probably got imaginations about 20K years or so ago. It took thousands of years after that for the concept of a god/gods to appear.
Why didn't God appear before then?

Science does not say that because Science cannot say it.

Science can only gather data and then infer patters from those data.

Where are your data then ???

 

[yiostheoy]

If my personal belief is true, then it does answer all your questions. If my personal belief is not true, I have yet to see refuting evidence.

Equally, I'd like to see your "evidence" that proves there is no God.

Is it not equally "imaginary" to imagine that all the matter in the Universe and all the order (and chaos) just magically appeared from nowhere?

Of course, I realize that that begs the question, "so even if there IS a "God", who created God?

That is the epiphany of faith. And testament to how little humans actually know. So please, don't pretend you do.

The ancient Greeks solved this problem by postulating that matter and the elements existed first and indefinitely.

Then Gaia was created from them by them.

Then she gave birth to her brother Uranos.

Then they gave birth to the Titans.

Then they gave birth to the Olympians.

Then they gave birth to Humans.

Works for me.