M.D. Rawlings
Classical Liberal
Incinerating Presuppositionalism: Michael David Rawlings and the Primacy of a Bad Attitude
Still avoiding the pertinent issues, I see. Are you an Objectivist, orogenicman? LOL!
I have no interest in your mumbo-jumbo psychobabble, the psychology that unwittingly presupposes an unfalsifiable, metaphysical naturalism as its premise for abiogenesis and evolution. You've already demonstrated the fact of my assertion and stupidly go on affirming my charge.
Back to the substance: you asserted something about the results of abiogenetic research. Science, orogenicman, see if you can concentrate on the science, orogenicman.
Answer the questions:
1. How many of these 17 would have realistically been available under the actual conditions of nature?
All of them. Why wouldn't they be? They occur in nature, and so are available IN NATURE.
Focus, orogenicman.
Of course they occur in nature, and so they are available in nature . . . today, and not just the 17 that can be synthesized under controlled conditions, but all 20 that prevail in living organisms.
You think to talk to me as if I were a retard.
Focus, orogenicman.
We're talking about abiogenesis. We're talking about prebiotic material, not post-biotic material.
You. Don't. Know. What. You're. Talking. About. Do. You?
You're. Not. Cognizant. Of. The. Pertinent. Actualities. Are. You?
You're. Confused. Aren't. You?
From my article:
We're not talking about the organic compounds that are available today, i.e., the organic molecules (monomers) that are harvested from extant living cells and are used to synthesis organic macromolecules (polymers) in vitro. Nor are we talking about the various organic molecules that can be produced under a variety of conditions in laboratories today. In other words, we're not talking about the present; we're talking about the past. We're talking about that which was realistically available to Mother Nature approximately 4.2 billion years ago.
In the years since Stanley Miller's landmark experiments, scientists have synthesized 17 of the 20 fundamental amino acids in experiments simulating variously tweaked reducing atmospheres inside variants of Miller's original apparatus. But all of these procedures involved high concentrations of methane and ammonia. With respect to the actual conditions of the primordial world, the geological evidence does not support the presence of these kinds of concentrations. It's not even close. But even if it did, as discussed in the above, there would have been no ozone layer to shield the organic compounds produced, and, once again, in oxidizing atmospheres no biologically useful compounds are produced. Zilch. However, in a semi-reducing atmosphere, some of the simpler and more durable amino acids might have had a fighting chance, and we know for sure that the Murchison Meteorite contains 6 of the fundamentals—exactly the number that might have been produced in a semi-reducing atmosphere here on Earth!
. . . Due to the barely measurable presence and woeful instability of the other 11 . . . they could not have existed in any significant concentrations in the primordial world beyond the environment of a living cell . The 6 are glycine, alanine, glutamic acid, aspartic acid, valine and proline.
They occur in the ocean - in the water, in the ocean floor, and in hydrothermal vents. They occur in meteorites. They occur in stellar nebulae. They occur deep within the Earth, and on its surface. Etc., etc., etc.
Thanks, orogenicman, but I know where they're found, and you're not going to find all of the 17 you're talking about, once again, outside a living cell.
But that doesn't answer the second question, orogenicman. You didn't understand the second question, did you, orogenicman?
Let's try that again with a little more help from someone who does know the science and understands the matter: in what kind of mixture are these 6 found in nature outside of living cells—homochiral or racemic? And what is the difference?
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The above was change to read correctly: " . . . Due to the barely measurable presence and woeful instability of the other 11 . . . they could not have existed in any significant concentrations in the primordial world beyond the environment of a living cell . The 6 are glycine, alanine, glutamic acid, aspartic acid, valine and proline.
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