The equal pay for women debate is Washington BS!

UllysesS.Archer

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I'll start this out by saying, I am just talking about the truck driving industry. This is the industry that employs more people in this country than any other industry in the country.

I am a truck driver, so I speak from almost 25 years in the industry. When I first started driving a truck, there were very few female truck drivers on the road. Now, there are a great deal more female truck drivers.

Are they paid less on average than male truck drivers? YES

Why are they paid less on average than male truck drivers? Experience

It is unfair to compare a female truck driver with less than a years experience to a male truck driver with over 10 years experience.. The numbers of female truck drivers, fresh out of training, grows every day, and though they may be every bit as good a driver as a male truck driver, they lack the experience that garners the higher pay rates, in the industry. Same thing for male truck drivers fresh out of training, as well.

A driver, such as myself, can make rates as high as 60 cents a mile, working as a company driver, while drivers fresh out of training, are lucky to make half of that, some make as little as 25 cents a mile.

It boils down to insurance rates, with more experience, insurance rates are much cheaper, for truck drivers, with good records, no DUI's, no tickets, and no accidents, and those who know the roads well enough to deliver on time, every time.

The female truck drivers who were driving a truck the same time I started driving a truck, are in the same tax rate as I am, there are just a lot fewer of them, than there are male truck drivers, and the numbers are now messed up, because of the new female drivers coming into the industry.

It's just part of Washington, taking a little bit of the truth, and twisting it to fit their own needs once again, to garner votes, from those less educated, on the real issues.
 

Delta4Embassy

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Many reasons women SEEM to earn less. From less aggressive negotiations for compensation, to false comparisons of employement (just because you're both CEOs and the woman earns less doesn't mean it's discriminatory if the woman's company is WORTH much less,) to pay averaged over some span of time where the woman took time off for family and such.

If there was actual discrimination, you could sue. And the discrimination wouldn't exist. If you're not sueing, then there isn't discrimination but the media depicts it as though there was.
 

Luddly Neddite

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There's nothing to debate.

Equal pay for equal work, across the board, for everyone.
 

martybegan

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There's nothing to debate.

Equal pay for equal work, across the board, for everyone.
That isn't the argument. The argument is that people complaining about a pay gap are using fudged numbers, either making broad categories that cover work that is not equal in skill or required training, or not accounting for experience and time in trade.
 

Care4all

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Equal pay for EQUAL WORK.....

If your experience makes you more valuable....then you get paid more..... but new women truck drivers should not be paid less than New men truck drivers with no experience....just because they are female.
 

pinqy

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There's nothing to debate.

Equal pay for equal work, across the board, for everyone.
That's a meaningless phrase. What constitutes equal work? And what if the person doesn't want/need equal pay? A secondary earner in a 2 income family will not need and would be satisfied at a lower pay rate than a main earner. So why would it make sense to pay a person willing to take less "equal pay"?

If a particular job in your company gets around $40,000/year, and you have an applicant who asks for $30,000, it would be stupid to offer them more. If s/he is happy with $30k, give him/her $30k. That is, by definition, fair, since it's what is asked for. To pay more on some vague principle of abstract fairness is ridiculous and patronizing.
 

Roadrunner

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There's nothing to debate.

Equal pay for equal work, across the board, for everyone.
That isn't the argument. The argument is that people complaining about a pay gap are using fudged numbers, either making broad categories that cover work that is not equal in skill or required training, or not accounting for experience and time in trade.
I'd like to see a valid survey of who works the most hours in a given job, men, or women.

In teaching, women miss many more days of school than men.

They get the exact same pay, but use more sick leave.
 

Luddly Neddite

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There's nothing to debate.

Equal pay for equal work, across the board, for everyone.
That's a meaningless phrase. What constitutes equal work? And what if the person doesn't want/need equal pay? A secondary earner in a 2 income family will not need and would be satisfied at a lower pay rate than a main earner. So why would it make sense to pay a person willing to take less "equal pay"?

If a particular job in your company gets around $40,000/year, and you have an applicant who asks for $30,000, it would be stupid to offer them more. If s/he is happy with $30k, give him/her $30k. That is, by definition, fair, since it's what is asked for. To pay more on some vague principle of abstract fairness is ridiculous and patronizing.

See bolded.

You cannot possibly believe that its okay to pay less based on one's home situation.

If that's true, then single mothers (and fathers) should be paid more and those with 5 kids should be paid more than one with only two.

Your second paragraph makes no sense either. Such a policy is anything but fair.
 
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Luddly Neddite

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There's nothing to debate.

Equal pay for equal work, across the board, for everyone.
That isn't the argument. The argument is that people complaining about a pay gap are using fudged numbers, either making broad categories that cover work that is not equal in skill or required training, or not accounting for experience and time in trade.
I'd like to see a valid survey of who works the most hours in a given job, men, or women.

In teaching, women miss many more days of school than men.

They get the exact same pay, but use more sick leave.


Women are still the primary caretakers of our children.
 

martybegan

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Equal pay for EQUAL WORK.....

If your experience makes you more valuable....then you get paid more..... but new women truck drivers should not be paid less than New men truck drivers with no experience....just because they are female.
Have we seen recent evidence of this occurring? I can't be in union jobs because all those records are easily scrutinized. All of the hoopla being brought to this argument is based on studies, as I stated above, with serious flaws in methodology.
 

Care4all

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There's nothing to debate.

Equal pay for equal work, across the board, for everyone.
That's a meaningless phrase. What constitutes equal work? And what if the person doesn't want/need equal pay? A secondary earner in a 2 income family will not need and would be satisfied at a lower pay rate than a main earner. So why would it make sense to pay a person willing to take less "equal pay"?

If a particular job in your company gets around $40,000/year, and you have an applicant who asks for $30,000, it would be stupid to offer them more. If s/he is happy with $30k, give him/her $30k. That is, by definition, fair, since it's what is asked for. To pay more on some vague principle of abstract fairness is ridiculous and patronizing.
I disagree.....no woman in her right mind would say, I know the job pays 40k but please pay me just 30k....I'll be happy with 10k less.....

Maybe at the CEO level she may be willing to do the job for 50 million vs 60 million for the male version......but I even doubt that Pinqy...

I contend that NO ONE is HAPPY being paid much less for the exact same work!!!
 
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UllysesS.Archer

UllysesS.Archer

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There's nothing to debate.

Equal pay for equal work, across the board, for everyone.
Earlier this month, I picked up a load in PA, met a truck driver from a different company than mine, we were hauling the exact same freight, 18 pallets, same weight, same route, same destination. He was making 3 cents a mile less than me, with more experience than I have.

After talking to him, I called his company and applied for a job, i'll be flying to Baltimore Monday for orientation, i'll make 3 cents a mile less, and get home every weekend. The new company is 100 percent drop n hook, so no loading and unloading waiting time, and several other reasons that i prefer the new company. That is all my choice, to make less money, because the situation fits me better.

Equal pay for equal work is a non issue, because every person is on a different agenda with their own life.
 
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UllysesS.Archer

UllysesS.Archer

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There's nothing to debate.

Equal pay for equal work, across the board, for everyone.
That's a meaningless phrase. What constitutes equal work? And what if the person doesn't want/need equal pay? A secondary earner in a 2 income family will not need and would be satisfied at a lower pay rate than a main earner. So why would it make sense to pay a person willing to take less "equal pay"?

If a particular job in your company gets around $40,000/year, and you have an applicant who asks for $30,000, it would be stupid to offer them more. If s/he is happy with $30k, give him/her $30k. That is, by definition, fair, since it's what is asked for. To pay more on some vague principle of abstract fairness is ridiculous and patronizing.
I disagree.....no woman in her right mind would say, I know the job pays 40k but please pay me just 30k....I'll be happy with 10k less.....

Maybe at the CEO level she may be willing to do the job for 50 million vs 60 million for the male version......but I even doubt that Pinqy...

I contend that NO ONE is HAPPY being paid much less for the exact same work!!!
Like I said, it depends on what someone wants out of their job. Perhaps the woman working for 30k wants to be home on weekends, and has that, in her job deal, where as the man works every weekend.

All I am saying, is that the numbers are skewed. Because every situation is different.
 

Care4all

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There's nothing to debate.

Equal pay for equal work, across the board, for everyone.
Earlier this month, I picked up a load in PA, met a truck driver from a different company than mine, we were hauling the exact same freight, 18 pallets, same weight, same route, same destination. He was making 3 cents a mile less than me, with more experience than I have.

After talking to him, I called his company and applied for a job, i'll be flying to Baltimore Monday for orientation, i'll make 3 cents a mile less, and get home every weekend. The new company is 100 percent drop n hook, so no loading and unloading waiting time, and several other reasons that i prefer the new company. That is all my choice, to make less money, because the situation fits me better.

Equal pay for equal work is a non issue, because every person is on a different agenda with their own life.
And AGAIN that is not an example as EQUAL WORK.... you explained the differences really well....and I appreciate this learning curve of your trade being explained to us novices.... like me!

I would not expect pay to be the same in those circumstances and every industry can have examples of different levels of services that require more pay for one worker over another.....

I can see how difficult the term EQUAL pay for EQUAL WORK may be to define....

Hold on...I'm on my Kindle and it's hard to type....

Be right back, switching to my laptop.
 

LeftofLeft

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There's nothing to debate.

Equal pay for equal work, across the board, for everyone.
It's not that simple. What is your definition of work? I can think when I was starting out in 24 years ago at a company, a woman same age, education, and similar work we were both performing. She was paid $6k more than me. It did not make a difference on gender to me. The reality was I had a co-worker who had more experience, more tenure with the company and we both were doing the same amount of work. When it came time for reviews, I pushed for a raise that was "commensurate with peers doing the same work." Company had a choice to accept my request or not and then I walk. I walked and negotiated a much higher salary elsewhere. Gender pay had nothing to do with it.
 

pinqy

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There's nothing to debate.

Equal pay for equal work, across the board, for everyone.
That's a meaningless phrase. What constitutes equal work? And what if the person doesn't want/need equal pay? A secondary earner in a 2 income family will not need and would be satisfied at a lower pay rate than a main earner. So why would it make sense to pay a person willing to take less "equal pay"?

If a particular job in your company gets around $40,000/year, and you have an applicant who asks for $30,000, it would be stupid to offer them more. If s/he is happy with $30k, give him/her $30k. That is, by definition, fair, since it's what is asked for. To pay more on some vague principle of abstract fairness is ridiculous and patronizing.

See bolded.

You cannot possibly believe that its okay to pay less based on one's home situation.
I'm not sure how you got that out of the bolded part. I'm saying it's ok to pay someone less if they ask for less because they don't want/need more.

If that's true, then single mothers (and fathers) should be paid more and those with 5 kids should be paid more than one with only two.
I would expect a single parent or someone with more kids to have a higher salary requirement than others. But I think you misunderstand:
I am NOT saying that people should be paid based on an employer's evaluation on their needs, but if a person's salary requirements/request is lower than others, then there is no need to pay them more.

Your second paragraph makes no sense either. Such a policy is anything but fair.
How is unfair to pay people the wage they ask for?????
 

Care4all

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There's nothing to debate.

Equal pay for equal work, across the board, for everyone.
That's a meaningless phrase. What constitutes equal work? And what if the person doesn't want/need equal pay? A secondary earner in a 2 income family will not need and would be satisfied at a lower pay rate than a main earner. So why would it make sense to pay a person willing to take less "equal pay"?

If a particular job in your company gets around $40,000/year, and you have an applicant who asks for $30,000, it would be stupid to offer them more. If s/he is happy with $30k, give him/her $30k. That is, by definition, fair, since it's what is asked for. To pay more on some vague principle of abstract fairness is ridiculous and patronizing.
I disagree.....no woman in her right mind would say, I know the job pays 40k but please pay me just 30k....I'll be happy with 10k less.....

Maybe at the CEO level she may be willing to do the job for 50 million vs 60 million for the male version......but I even doubt that Pinqy...

I contend that NO ONE is HAPPY being paid much less for the exact same work!!!
Like I said, it depends on what someone wants out of their job. Perhaps the woman working for 30k wants to be home on weekends, and has that, in her job deal, where as the man works every weekend.

All I am saying, is that the numbers are skewed. Because every situation is different.
but again THAT is not an example of equal pay for equal work, if a deal is worked where she does not have to work weekends or whatever, vs the counterpart worker having to do more and being paid more for doing more.
 

Jroc

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Equal pay for EQUAL WORK.....

If your experience makes you more valuable....then you get paid more..... but new women truck drivers should not be paid less than New men truck drivers with no experience....just because they are female.
Doesn't happen, why is it you leftist push a false narrative like it's fact? any company could be sued for that
 
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UllysesS.Archer

UllysesS.Archer

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There's nothing to debate.

Equal pay for equal work, across the board, for everyone.
That's a meaningless phrase. What constitutes equal work? And what if the person doesn't want/need equal pay? A secondary earner in a 2 income family will not need and would be satisfied at a lower pay rate than a main earner. So why would it make sense to pay a person willing to take less "equal pay"?

If a particular job in your company gets around $40,000/year, and you have an applicant who asks for $30,000, it would be stupid to offer them more. If s/he is happy with $30k, give him/her $30k. That is, by definition, fair, since it's what is asked for. To pay more on some vague principle of abstract fairness is ridiculous and patronizing.
I disagree.....no woman in her right mind would say, I know the job pays 40k but please pay me just 30k....I'll be happy with 10k less.....

Maybe at the CEO level she may be willing to do the job for 50 million vs 60 million for the male version......but I even doubt that Pinqy...

I contend that NO ONE is HAPPY being paid much less for the exact same work!!!
Like I said, it depends on what someone wants out of their job. Perhaps the woman working for 30k wants to be home on weekends, and has that, in her job deal, where as the man works every weekend.

All I am saying, is that the numbers are skewed. Because every situation is different.
but again THAT is not an example of equal pay for equal work, if a deal is worked where she does not have to work weekends or whatever, vs the counterpart worker having to do more and being paid more for doing more.
Is there such a thing as equal work?

Can people actually do equal work?

If a man gets to work and clocks in 645(supposedly to be there at 7) and clocks out at 315(with an out time of 3) and another man clocks in at 705 and out at 255, both men doing the same job, there is a 20 minute a day difference in their paychecks.

Now it might be that the man working shorter time, is acutally producing more than the man staying longer, but the man staying longer is making more money, for doing the same job.

Like I have said, every situation is different, and no job can be done identically by anyone other than computers and robots.
 

Care4all

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There's nothing to debate.

Equal pay for equal work, across the board, for everyone.
Earlier this month, I picked up a load in PA, met a truck driver from a different company than mine, we were hauling the exact same freight, 18 pallets, same weight, same route, same destination. He was making 3 cents a mile less than me, with more experience than I have.

After talking to him, I called his company and applied for a job, i'll be flying to Baltimore Monday for orientation, i'll make 3 cents a mile less, and get home every weekend. The new company is 100 percent drop n hook, so no loading and unloading waiting time, and several other reasons that i prefer the new company. That is all my choice, to make less money, because the situation fits me better.

Equal pay for equal work is a non issue, because every person is on a different agenda with their own life.
And AGAIN that is not an example as EQUAL WORK.... you explained the differences really well....and I appreciate this learning curve of your trade being explained to us novices.... like me!

I would not expect pay to be the same in those circumstances and every industry can have examples of different levels of services that require more pay for one worker over another.....

I can see how difficult the term EQUAL pay for EQUAL WORK may be to define....

Hold on...I'm on my Kindle and it's hard to type....

Be right back, switching to my laptop.
First off, if women were paid the exact same as Men were from the beginning of them both hitting the workforce we wouldn't be having this discussion at all...

And men would not be paid as little as they are now in many areas of our work force if women had not infiltrated it...even sales clerks, & the man behind the ice cream bar in the general store, were Men...hardly a woman to be found at one time....but since women were treated differently by employers from the BEGINNING and paid them less than they did for a man of the household worker, pay went down for the entire field and now even men are paid less than what the job would pay in today's dollar.
Employers are more apt to hire who they can pay less, right?


Paying women less has made men being paid less also....

I don't think a law could work, any moreso than an equal opportunity law works....

I just wish this never even had to be a discussion...I wish women were always paid the same as their male counterparts from square 1, when hired as a green one.... it's hurt all of us, including men losing their jobs to a woman paid less or accepting less pay in order to be hired over a woman.
 

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