The Economy

[WillowTree]

Also, how will Romney's planned tax changes that will effectively increase taxes on lower- and middle-income Amercans improve the economy?

tell us what his tax changes are and link them please.

 

[Avorysuds]

The economy has demonstrably improved because job losses have stopped, housing foreclosures have turned around, and the financial system is no longer in danger of imminent collapse.

But things can't get better, either, because middle class wages are declining and all the money is being transferred to the rich fuckers. With the kind of astounding wealth concentrations that have occured in the U.S. since "supply side" economics destroyed the middle class, there can be no recovery.

I don't think anything in the first part of what you said has near any truth. I also can't stand that people seem to sell this idea that we were just going to lose jobs at 700k a month for eternity. I guess one could argue that the question was not if Obama had anything to do with slowing the decent in jobs, helping the housing market or securing the financial situation but to me there was always going to be a bottom… The issue is that after we found that bottom we have not moved even an inch. There is lots of talk of heading into another recession as the QE’s and stimulus money runs out. UE is still as high as it was at its worst and housing is still 100% in the dumps.

I’m not arguing with how you view things I simply feel that there is a process, hitting a bottom is not improvement in my eyes are it was inevitable. I believe things will be getting worse do to the floating of the markets (malinvestment) done by Obama and the FED with TARP/stimulus/welfare and so on.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Which economy?
For Wall Street Banks it has improved immeasurably.
For everyone else?

 

[Freemason9]

Also, why is Romney's plan to eliminate the features of "Obamacare" (National Health Care Reform Act) help anyone? Will it be a good thing to keep millions of Americans uninsured, allow health insurance companies to deny coverage based upon pre-existing conditions, and kick older children off from parent's health plans?

Can anyone believe it is a good thing to return to the "good old days" of health care prior to Obama?

 

[Freemason9]

Also, how will Romney's planned tax changes that will effectively increase taxes on lower- and middle-income Amercans improve the economy?

tell us what his tax changes are and link them please.

I understand he intends to cut the top marginal rates. Correct? If he does that without increasing revenue elsewhere, the deficits will increase. So, tell me where this extra money will come from.

Or does he just plan on running higher deficits, ala Bush?

 

[Avorysuds]

Can anyone tell me what "regulations" Romney plans to eliminate that will magically create a net increase in jobs? I mean, I want to hear one specific example.

There are none. Mitt is almost identical to Obama, that's why Mitt is losing to Obama in almost all meaningful polls... He is a horrible candidate. The sad part is that Obama is barley beating a candidate that lacks a base. We'll see the number only after the election but many predict all time low voter turnout as both men are clueless wonders.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Improvement has been slight.

Which is why I chose "About the same" rather than no.

The Dow has recovered, which is good, since I'd like to retire someday. The rest of the economy is still in the shitter, though.

And 4 years previous does not count. Your question was since Obama took office.

Obama has completely flubbed the economy. Bo, his dog, could have done a better job. GDP "growth" has failed to keep pace with population expansion. We create less wealth per capita today than we did the day Obama took office - and that isn't a good thing.

 

[8537]

When Obama took office Real GDP was 100.697 (chained, 2005=100 figures)

Real GDP today is 107.459.

and the Fed is responsible for 99.99% of that

The Fed can increase Real GDP?

Frank, how positively Marxist of you.

 

[Freemason9]

The economy has demonstrably improved because job losses have stopped, housing foreclosures have turned around, and the financial system is no longer in danger of imminent collapse.

But things can't get better, either, because middle class wages are declining and all the money is being transferred to the rich fuckers. With the kind of astounding wealth concentrations that have occured in the U.S. since "supply side" economics destroyed the middle class, there can be no recovery.

I don't think anything in the first part of what you said has near any truth. I also can't stand that people seem to sell this idea that we were just going to lose jobs at 700k a month for eternity. I guess one could argue that the question was not if Obama had anything to do with slowing the decent in jobs, helping the housing market or securing the financial situation but to me there was always going to be a bottom… The issue is that after we found that bottom we have not moved even an inch. There is lots of talk of heading into another recession as the QE’s and stimulus money runs out. UE is still as high as it was at its worst and housing is still 100% in the dumps.

I’m not arguing with how you view things I simply feel that there is a process, hitting a bottom is not improvement in my eyes are it was inevitable. I believe things will be getting worse do to the floating of the markets (malinvestment) done by Obama and the FED with TARP/stimulus/welfare and so on.

Nope, you apparently have forgotten the calamity of late-2008. It was utter destruction in reality, and the series of TARP and stimulus activities managed to stave off an economic depression. Personally, I'm surprised that it worked so well, in the face of congressional incompetence and ideological posturing.

"Floating of markets" has nothing to do whatever with real economic output and activity--that is a false economy, legitimized by those that rake in profits without producing anything of consequence. The one problem this economy has--and the one thing that will undo it--is that productive workers are inadequately compensated for the value they create. That effect has accumulated for better than three decades, and we have reached the tipping point.

 

[8537]

When Obama took office Real GDP was 100.697 (chained, 2005=100 figures)

Real GDP today is 107.459.

GDP means nothing when you dump trillions on the markets.

real GDP. REAL gdp. Not nominal. Real.

The broadest measure of the health of an economy is the change in real GDP. Real GDP has increased by a bit less than 7% since Obama took office.

 

[Avorysuds]

Also, why is Romney's plan to eliminate the features of "Obamacare" (National Health Care Reform Act) help anyone? Will it be a good thing to keep millions of Americans uninsured, allow health insurance companies to deny coverage based upon pre-existing conditions, and kick older children off from parent's health plans?

Can anyone believe it is a good thing to return to the "good old days" of health care prior to Obama?

The worst thing you can do is have Government in HC. As Predicted costs have only gone up with the intervention of Obamacare... Every measurement of "good" Obama and his team claimed Obamacare would have on the immediate front has failed horrifically.

HC costs go up because more people use it… More people use HC because they 1) pay almost nothing for it thanks to Medicare/Medicaid and 2) because people are fat due to overeating and sitting around all day, that’s the number 1 killing in America… So high costs are due to peoples own bad habits, costs should reflect that so people are forced to make better choices. I don’t know why so many liberal minded people hate evolution when it comes to humans.

 

[Liberal]

My company went from shipping 1000-2000 dollars a day in 2008, hemorrhaging money and workers to shipping 500,000 a day at times with an average around 25,000 this year.

We went from 15 to 5 employees by the end of 2008, we now have 25 full-time employees with full health coverage, and 5 part-timers traveling the southeast.

NO DOUBT we are better off. The industrial district we are in went from being dead quiet during the day in 2008 to being loud and bustling today, things are MUCH better than 2008. However, I still think they could get better.

And this is in Florida...

In addition, historically we see an increase in sales about 2-3 months before the PMI/ROB shows any movement. For the last 2 months we have had a double book/bill for the first time this year. I predict that within the next month there will be signs of the economy growing again.. Possibly at it's highest rate this year.

 

[Freemason9]

Can anyone tell me what "regulations" Romney plans to eliminate that will magically create a net increase in jobs? I mean, I want to hear one specific example.

There are none. Mitt is almost identical to Obama, that's why Mitt is losing to Obama in almost all meaningful polls... He is a horrible candidate. The sad part is that Obama is barley beating a candidate that lacks a base. We'll see the number only after the election but many predict all time low voter turnout as both men are clueless wonders.

We agree.

 

[Moonglow]

Improvement has been slight.
And 4 years previous does not count. Your question was since Obama took office.

If I can't base it off of history then I would change my vote to its gotten worse. Growth is natural stagnation is not.

you were bitching 6 months ago that you had no work, what happened to that? Then you say your making about 200,000 k a year? Which is it?

 

[Uncensored2008]

The Fed can increase Real GDP?

Frank, how positively Marxist of you.

Over 4 years, GDP has risen a paltry 7%, an average of 1.7% per year. Population increases at a rate of 2.8% per year. This is a real deficit of 1.1% annually.

Even a racist like you, who cares more about the color of the presidents skin than his policies, can't possibly claim this is a "success."

 

[Moonglow]

When Oblama took office my business in construction was dead, now I can't work enough to keep up with the demand.

 

[Freemason9]

Also, why is Romney's plan to eliminate the features of "Obamacare" (National Health Care Reform Act) help anyone? Will it be a good thing to keep millions of Americans uninsured, allow health insurance companies to deny coverage based upon pre-existing conditions, and kick older children off from parent's health plans?

Can anyone believe it is a good thing to return to the "good old days" of health care prior to Obama?

The worst thing you can do is have Government in HC. As Predicted costs have only gone up with the intervention of Obamacare... Every measurement of "good" Obama and his team claimed Obamacare would have on the immediate front has failed horrifically.

HC costs go up because more people use it… More people use HC because they 1) pay almost nothing for it thanks to Medicare/Medicaid and 2) because people are fat due to overeating and sitting around all day, that’s the number 1 killing in America… So high costs are due to peoples own bad habits, costs should reflect that so people are forced to make better choices. I don’t know why so many liberal minded people hate evolution when it comes to humans.

Uh, no.

National health care is the standard, and works everywhere else in the world. It works much, much better, in fact. HC costs go up because of the private insurance system that isolates people from the process. People need to OWN the process--this can only be done through a single-payer system.

 

[Avorysuds]

My company went from shipping 1000-2000 dollars a day in 2008, hemorrhaging money and workers to shipping 500,000 a day at times with an average around 25,000 this year.

We went from 15 to 5 employees by the end of 2008, we now have 25 full-time employees with full health coverage, and 5 part-timers traveling the southeast.

NO DOUBT we are better off. The industrial district we are in went from being dead quiet during the day in 2008 to being loud and bustling today, things are MUCH better than 2008. However, I still think they could get better.

And this is in Florida...

In addition, historically we see an increase in sales about 2-3 months before the PMI/ROB shows any movement. For the last 2 months we have had a double book/bill for the first time this year. I predict that within the next month there will be signs of the economy growing again.. Possibly at it's highest rate this year.

Good to hear.

I think again context is needed. When things were in collapse people sucked in tight on everything, slowly markets came back to life that should have never sucked in so tightly, but again to me that was inevitable and not a sign of growth as much as it is a sign that we are at a bottom.

 

[8537]

The Fed can increase Real GDP?

Frank, how positively Marxist of you.

Over 4 years, GDP has risen a paltry 7%, an average of 1.7% per year.

Oh bejeebers. Do you lie or are you just ignorant?

US population growth is less than 1% per year.

 

[Avorysuds]

Also, why is Romney's plan to eliminate the features of "Obamacare" (National Health Care Reform Act) help anyone? Will it be a good thing to keep millions of Americans uninsured, allow health insurance companies to deny coverage based upon pre-existing conditions, and kick older children off from parent's health plans?

Can anyone believe it is a good thing to return to the "good old days" of health care prior to Obama?

The worst thing you can do is have Government in HC. As Predicted costs have only gone up with the intervention of Obamacare... Every measurement of "good" Obama and his team claimed Obamacare would have on the immediate front has failed horrifically.

HC costs go up because more people use it… More people use HC because they 1) pay almost nothing for it thanks to Medicare/Medicaid and 2) because people are fat due to overeating and sitting around all day, that’s the number 1 killing in America… So high costs are due to peoples own bad habits, costs should reflect that so people are forced to make better choices. I don’t know why so many liberal minded people hate evolution when it comes to humans.

Uh, no.

National health care is the standard, and works everywhere else in the world. It works much, much better, in fact. HC costs go up because of the private insurance system that isolates people from the process. People need to OWN the process--this can only be done through a single-payer system.

I really don't care to talk to you about how the rest of the world's HC is amazing when every country that has it is going under (bankrupt) due to skyrocketed costs. It's just not worth the time as you see it one way and one way only.