The Derek Chauvin effect/affect on law enforcement

[Fort Fun Indiana]

.you referred to police as criminals...

Liar. I referred only to attempted murderers who kneel on people's necks for 9 minutes.

You're embarrassing yourself, now.

 

[Muhammed]

I'd have to disagree here.Your average cop doesn't have Chauvins record of abuses, and I hope most of them understand that suffocating people is bad without having to have it explained to them.

Nobody suffocated George Floyd you pathetic low IQ fool. George Floyd died from a fentanyl overdose.

You're a moron and lying subhuman piece of shit.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Yep....when you prosecute officers for doing their jobs you will get less job and more of what it is they're supposed to be stopping. The new, more polite and less aggressive policies don't work. People are people...not automatons that follow lines from some psychology book.

Humans are rather ugly creatures. Not only do they have the full range of animal instincts they also dangerously have enough intelligence to figure out how to apply those instincts against all social norms for their own benefit. Give them more room for their dysfunction and That is exactly what you will get, more of the dysfunction. This is generally a hard and fast rule.

We condemn Islam for making thieves one handed citizens and yet you never hear about flash mob theft in an Islamic country.

Islam for all of its intrinsic viciousness recognizes human nature in ways the western civilizations never will.

So while we pride ourselves on civility the criminal element counts on societal support for their criminality. They can't be reformed....they have to be made to realize that they cannot survive unless they change. Only this will create change.

Derek Chauvin is a perfect example of how the new rules have failed us.

Jo

I know right, police should be free to murder people if they are bad people and it will make the rest of us safer

 

[Grumblenuts]

And the knuckledragging sadly continued,.. perplexing most as some made it look easy..

 

[Foxfyre]

Yep....when you prosecute officers for doing their jobs you will get less job and more of what it is they're supposed to be stopping. The new, more polite and less aggressive policies don't work. People are people...not automatons that follow lines from some psychology book.

Humans are rather ugly creatures. Not only do they have the full range of animal instincts they also dangerously have enough intelligence to figure out how to apply those instincts against all social norms for their own benefit. Give them more room for their dysfunction and That is exactly what you will get, more of the dysfunction. This is generally a hard and fast rule.

We condemn Islam for making thieves one handed citizens and yet you never hear about flash mob theft in an Islamic country.

Islam for all of its intrinsic viciousness recognizes human nature in ways the western civilizations never will.

So while we pride ourselves on civility the criminal element counts on societal support for their criminality. They can't be reformed....they have to be made to realize that they cannot survive unless they change. Only this will create change.

Derek Chauvin is a perfect example of how the new rules have failed us.

Jo

When destructive groups like BLM and ANTIFA riot and burn and assault/batter and pillage in protest of police action, when the left calls again and again to defund the police, replace police officers with social workers, require 'sensitivity' (make that 'wokeism') training, when every shooting or arrest requiring physical force is questioned and/or too often criticized/condemned/prosecuted, when there is cashless bail, early release of dangerous people, permission for a certain amount of 'acceptable' crime, when criminals have more rights than their victims or those enforcing the laws. . .

More and more police officers are going to take early retirement and many fewer people will choose police work as their vocation. And hundred of cities across the nation have inadequate law enforcement protection

What is left are far too many of those who won't take ANY risk to protect and serve, those who are content to just draw a paycheck without being expected to really do their jobs, who will prey on the non violent and average harmless citizen to pretend they doing their jobs rather than going after dangerous criminals, who will be on the take. . .etc.

Unless America goes back to a universal policy of backing the blue, it is only going to get worse.

 

[SavannahMann]

Yep....when you prosecute officers for doing their jobs you will get less job and more of what it is they're supposed to be stopping. The new, more polite and less aggressive policies don't work. People are people...not automatons that follow lines from some psychology book.

Humans are rather ugly creatures. Not only do they have the full range of animal instincts they also dangerously have enough intelligence to figure out how to apply those instincts against all social norms for their own benefit. Give them more room for their dysfunction and That is exactly what you will get, more of the dysfunction. This is generally a hard and fast rule.

We condemn Islam for making thieves one handed citizens and yet you never hear about flash mob theft in an Islamic country.

Islam for all of its intrinsic viciousness recognizes human nature in ways the western civilizations never will.

So while we pride ourselves on civility the criminal element counts on societal support for their criminality. They can't be reformed....they have to be made to realize that they cannot survive unless they change. Only this will create change.

Derek Chauvin is a perfect example of how the new rules have failed us.

Jo

Nonsense. The problem with your theory is obvious. Chauvin was responsible for the death, and for there to be balance, the authority must be equal to the responsibility.

Chauvin was in a manner of speaking thrown to the wolves, but not to placate the left. The protests did not end with his arrest. Chauvin was thrown to the wolves to placate the suburban white folks. The majority who support the police most often.

Let’s be honest. Chauvin had a long history of violating rules. Including policies on use of force. Several of the complaints were upheld, in other words he did it and it was wrong.

The problem was that the Department didn’t really get serious regarding correcting this behavior. They slapped his wrist while patting him on the back. The training that he attended was probably run the same way. Boring check the block events for bullshit rules.

What Chauvin didn’t expect was that those policies and rules would one day bite him in the ass. And the bite wouldn’t be that of a mosquito, but an Alligator.

The same supervisors who ignored and downplayed Chauvin’s previous misbehavior were the first ones to run in front of the camera and declare they were sucked and shocked by this. They want to stress that his actions are not in keeping with the values of the department or rest of the officers.

Chauvin never imagined that those rules would be enforced like that.

So who is really at fault? The supervisors who downplayed all the previous incidents. The training officer who told him that the book answer was bullshit, but you had to write it down like it was the gospel when writing your report. Use the key words and code phrases. The trainers who taught the classes like it was check the block bullshit. The other officers who didn’t pull Chauvin off of Floyd. Finally. Chauvin himself because if you are going to flaunt the rules, you can’t be surprised when it bites you in the ass.

Chauvin knew how to do the job by the book, and decided to do what he thought was right. Damn the book. Well someone was damned all right.

 

[justoffal]

Nonsense. The problem with your theory is obvious. Chauvin was responsible for the death, and for there to be balance, the authority must be equal to the responsibility.

Chauvin was in a manner of speaking thrown to the wolves, but not to placate the left. The protests did not end with his arrest. Chauvin was thrown to the wolves to placate the suburban white folks. The majority who support the police most often.

Let’s be honest. Chauvin had a long history of violating rules. Including policies on use of force. Several of the complaints were upheld, in other words he did it and it was wrong.

The problem was that the Department didn’t really get serious regarding correcting this behavior. They slapped his wrist while patting him on the back. The training that he attended was probably run the same way. Boring check the block events for bullshit rules.

What Chauvin didn’t expect was that those policies and rules would one day bite him in the ass. And the bite wouldn’t be that of a mosquito, but an Alligator.

The same supervisors who ignored and downplayed Chauvin’s previous misbehavior were the first ones to run in front of the camera and declare they were sucked and shocked by this. They want to stress that his actions are not in keeping with the values of the department or rest of the officers.

Chauvin never imagined that those rules would be enforced like that.

So who is really at fault? The supervisors who downplayed all the previous incidents. The training officer who told him that the book answer was bullshit, but you had to write it down like it was the gospel when writing your report. Use the key words and code phrases. The trainers who taught the classes like it was check the block bullshit. The other officers who didn’t pull Chauvin off of Floyd. Finally. Chauvin himself because if you are going to flaunt the rules, you can’t be surprised when it bites you in the ass.

Chauvin knew how to do the job by the book, and decided to do what he thought was right. Damn the book. Well someone was damned all right.

Appreciate the cerebral effort here....good arguments....but I'm going to disagree on final responsibility. Kneeling has been going on for the past 5 decades at least. Pretty common in arrests. True story.

When I was a young man I was an active power lifter. I usually kept my nose clean but one day I went a little bit nuts ( alcohol) and the local constabulary got involved. It took four them. I distinctly remember one officer kneeling on the right upper arm and one on the left. They had no choice really. It was very effective. Eventually I was controlled and faced my day in court.

Over the years I have seen it repeatedly. I realize that Chauvin was told not to use it. OK...
so fire him. But Jail? No way....
Floyd's life was in his own hands the moment he decided to resist. You can't cripple law enforcement and still expect results that matter.

 

[Grumblenuts]

I realize that Chauvin was told not to use it. OK...
so fire him. But Jail? No way....

Grab a clue. True story:

By pleading guilty, Chauvin admitted to willfully depriving Floyd of his civil rights when he knelt on Floyd's neck for nine and a half minutes. Specifically, he violated Floyd's 14th Amendment right to not be deprived of liberty without due process of law.
{...}
Additionally, Chauvin violated John Pope's right to be free from unreasonable force when he held the teenager by his throat and hit him in the head repeatedly with a flashlight. Chauvin went on to kneel on the young boy's neck for 15 minutes.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

When destructive groups like BLM and ANTIFA riot and burn and assault/batter and pillage in protest of police action, when the left calls again and again to defund the police, replace police officers with social workers, require 'sensitivity' (make that 'wokeism') training, when every shooting or arrest requiring physical force is questioned and/or too often criticized/condemned/prosecuted, when there is cashless bail, early release of dangerous people, permission for a certain amount of 'acceptable' crime, when criminals have more rights than their victims or those enforcing the laws. . .

More and more police officers are going to take early retirement and many fewer people will choose police work as their vocation. And hundred of cities across the nation have inadequate law enforcement protection

What is left are far too many of those who won't take ANY risk to protect and serve, those who are content to just draw a paycheck without being expected to really do their jobs, who will prey on the non violent and average harmless citizen to pretend they doing their jobs rather than going after dangerous criminals, who will be on the take. . .etc.

Unless America goes back to a universal policy of backing the blue, it is only going to get worse.

Those are not good excuses for letting police murder people.

But any rational person knows that. I know you know that.

So implicit here is you kind of getting your jollies off of cops murdering people. The right people, of course.

 

[justoffal]

Those are not good excuses for letting police murder people.

But any rational person knows that. I know you know that.

So implicit here is you kind of getting your jollies off of cops murdering people. The right people, of course.

Those are not good excuses for letting police murder people.

But any rational person knows that. I know you know that.

So implicit here is you kind of getting your jollies off of cops murdering people. The right people, of course.

Bullshit.... complete....utter....insane
Bullshit.....and nonsense.

You obviously do not want law and order. That's fine....accept the consequences. Blue cities are absorbing the consequences now.

When people die resisting arrest it is not MURDER you brainless nincompoop. What in God's name is wrong with your brain? It's damaged!

You simply do not live in the real world. Any population of professionals is going to have
a percentage of the inept and a percentage of those who abuse.
That is unavoidable. That however does not justify eliminating the populous or effectively neutering them as a
Class. What the fuck are you hiding boy? You're not being honest about something. I think I know what it might be.

You go ahead and live in the fairytale land of nicey-nice and see how long it takes for you to get your entire face kicked in by reality.

Those who are free to choose otherwise will do so...

Jo

 

[Oddball]

Apropos...

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

You obviously do not want law and order.

Now you are arguing that cops murdering people is necessary for law and order. Since that was my only objection



How embarrassing for you. Get your morality in order.

 

[SavannahMann]

Appreciate the cerebral effort here....good arguments....but I'm going to disagree on final responsibility. Kneeling has been going on for the past 5 decades at least. Pretty common in arrests. True story.

When I was a young man I was an active power lifter. I usually kept my nose clean but one day I went a little bit nuts ( alcohol) and the local constabulary got involved. It took four them. I distinctly remember one officer kneeling on the right upper arm and one on the left. They had no choice really. It was very effective. Eventually I was controlled and faced my day in court.

Over the years I have seen it repeatedly. I realize that Chauvin was told not to use it. OK...
so fire him. But Jail? No way....
Floyd's life was in his own hands the moment he decided to resist. You can't cripple law enforcement and still expect results that matter.

If it’s good for me, it’s good for everyone. That is the summary of your personal experience. But we don’t operate that way.

In 1995 the Department of Justice put out a report describing the dangers of Positional Asphyxia. Many departments ignored this report until it was brought to their attention during lawsuits. Then the various Police Agencies changed the standards to restrict when the knee hold could be used, and for how long.

Positional Asphyxia--Sudden Death | Office of Justice Programs

This bulletin presents information about positional asphyxia in order to educate the law enforcement community, thereby minimizing sudden in-custody deaths.

www.ojp.gov

Chauvin’s pattern was to use this despite the restrictions. He got lucky before and the suspects didn’t die. Some did lose consciousness. That was one of the complaints that was upheld. But Chauvin did far more than that.

If he had gotten off of Floyd after Floyd lost consciousness then perhaps termination would be appropriate. But he stayed on didn’t he?

If Chauvin had gotten off when they couldn’t find a pulse, I might agree with manslaughter. But Chauvin didn’t get off then either did he?

The policy allowed the hold until the suspect was restrained. That seems a fair standard. Allowing the police to use necessary force to get the suspect into cuffs.

Chauvin’s actions went beyond reckless to malicious. And simple termination for that is absolutely improper.

Even if you argue that Chauvin needed to use the hold on a combative prisoner, the combative activity ended when Floyd passed out from insufficient oxygen. When there was no pulse Chauvin continued.

What Chauvin did was play a game of Russian Roulette. He had done this before and it always worked out. He had gotten a minor slap on the wrist which they patted him on the back. He thought his experience was so great, his knowledge was so tight that he knew best of all.

But here is the thing about playing those games. Eventually you will lose. Every time Chauvin used the hold longer than authorized he was setting himself up for failure. He got away with it and kept getting away with it. In his mind, it always turned out fine so why worry?

I pointed this out during the trial and shortly afterwards. There are three responses if you are accused of taking a life. A) It wasn’t me. I have an alibi that proves I wasn’t there. B) Self defense. I did it but I had to in order to defend myself or others. C) It wasn’t my fault something else killed the guy.

There was too much video for A. There was no conceivable threat from Floyd so B is out. Chauvin’s own Pathologist put the final nail in C essentially admitting that Chauvin killed him.

 

[JoeB131]

When destructive groups like BLM and ANTIFA riot and burn and assault/batter and pillage in protest of police action, when the left calls again and again to defund the police, replace police officers with social workers, require 'sensitivity' (make that 'wokeism') training, when every shooting or arrest requiring physical force is questioned and/or too often criticized/condemned/prosecuted, when there is cashless bail, early release of dangerous people, permission for a certain amount of 'acceptable' crime, when criminals have more rights than their victims or those enforcing the laws. . .

All those things were done. Guess what, Crime is actually down.

Crime in America is down, rudely interfering with GOP narrative that it's out of control

There is news that threatens one of the Republican Party's most-valued narratives: Crime in America, we regret to say, is not rising.

www.usatoday.com

YOu can have law enforcement without treating people of color like shit. Imagine that.

 

[IM2]

I would agree that the nationwide, BLM riots during the 2020 pandemic yielded more crime than current day crime -- unless you count the faux "asylum seekers" and record high / growing border crossings.

There were no BLM riots. Police Reports state that most riots were done by people whohad nothing to do with BLM.

 

[IM2]

Yep....when you prosecute officers for doing their jobs you will get less job and more of what it is they're supposed to be stopping. The new, more polite and less aggressive policies don't work. People are people...not automatons that follow lines from some psychology book.

Humans are rather ugly creatures. Not only do they have the full range of animal instincts they also dangerously have enough intelligence to figure out how to apply those instincts against all social norms for their own benefit. Give them more room for their dysfunction and That is exactly what you will get, more of the dysfunction. This is generally a hard and fast rule.

We condemn Islam for making thieves one handed citizens and yet you never hear about flash mob theft in an Islamic country.

Islam for all of its intrinsic viciousness recognizes human nature in ways the western civilizations never will.

So while we pride ourselves on civility the criminal element counts on societal support for their criminality. They can't be reformed....they have to be made to realize that they cannot survive unless they change. Only this will create change.

Derek Chauvin is a perfect example of how the new rules have failed us.

Jo

Chauvin wasn't doing his job. He could have written a ticket for Floyd to appear in court for that counterfeit 20.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Once in a blue moon, it even happens to white people

How Dallas Police Stonewalled Tony Timpa’s Family for Years After His Death

Tony Timpa called police for help and died pinned to the ground. Seven years later, his family is still trying to hold officers accountable.

www.themarshallproject.org

 

[Foxfyre]

All those things were done. Guess what, Crime is actually down.

Crime in America is down, rudely interfering with GOP narrative that it's out of control

There is news that threatens one of the Republican Party's most-valued narratives: Crime in America, we regret to say, is not rising.

www.usatoday.com

YOu can have law enforcement without treating people of color like shit. Imagine that.

Depends on whose figures you use. I don't know a soul who thinks there is less crime now.

2022 Data Shows U.S. Violent Crime Is Up — And Also Down. Here's How.

Property crime and violence against young people are both up, recent federal data shows, but other crime trends are murkier.

www.themarshallproject.org

 

[JoeB131]

Depends on whose figures you use. I don't know a soul who thinks there is less crime now.

Everyone you know drools while watching Faux News.

Crime is down from where it was under Trump. Not that you will ever hold him accountable for the explosion in crime... or anything else.

 

[IM2]

Once in a blue moon, it even happens to white people

How Dallas Police Stonewalled Tony Timpa’s Family for Years After His Death

Tony Timpa called police for help and died pinned to the ground. Seven years later, his family is still trying to hold officers accountable.

www.themarshallproject.org

And in this case we didn't see any whites protesting for that family. They have basically been on it alone, while the RWM who declared that all lives mattered waited until Goege Floyd was killed to use this man as a political football to deny racism.