The Death Penalty---OP/ED

[DarkFury]

So you would argue its civilized to kill a unborn child but NOT civilized to kill a rapist?

I would argue that the two have nothing to do with the other.

So which is NOT human the murderer or the unborn child?

Is your thread about abortion or the death penalty? Get back to me when you start having rational thoughts.

Are they both not human?
Do not both call for death?
Only thing different is who and how its judged.

No, it's two completely different issues, and it's irrational to cloud the two. Now, do you want your thread to be about the death penalty or do you want it to be about abortion?

Its about death.

 

[Carla_Danger]

I would argue that the two have nothing to do with the other.

So which is NOT human the murderer or the unborn child?

Is your thread about abortion or the death penalty? Get back to me when you start having rational thoughts.

Are they both not human?
Do not both call for death?
Only thing different is who and how its judged.

No, it's two completely different issues, and it's irrational to cloud the two. Now, do you want your thread to be about the death penalty or do you want it to be about abortion?

Its about death.

Oh, I thought it was about the death penalty.

 

[DarkFury]

So which is NOT human the murderer or the unborn child?

Is your thread about abortion or the death penalty? Get back to me when you start having rational thoughts.

Are they both not human?
Do not both call for death?
Only thing different is who and how its judged.

No, it's two completely different issues, and it's irrational to cloud the two. Now, do you want your thread to be about the death penalty or do you want it to be about abortion?

Its about death.

Oh, I thought it was about the death penalty.

When a court decides to render a death penalty it results in death. When a woman chooses abortion it results in death. One gets a trial and one does not.

 

[Carla_Danger]

Is your thread about abortion or the death penalty? Get back to me when you start having rational thoughts.

Are they both not human?
Do not both call for death?
Only thing different is who and how its judged.

No, it's two completely different issues, and it's irrational to cloud the two. Now, do you want your thread to be about the death penalty or do you want it to be about abortion?

Its about death.

Oh, I thought it was about the death penalty.

When a court decides to render a death penalty it results in death. When a woman chooses abortion it results in death. One gets a trial and one does not.

A fetus has the potential to become a person but cannot live outside of the womb. It is completely legal for a woman to decide whether she wants to carry to term. A person on death row is already a person not living inside of a womb. Do you see the difference?

 

[JoeMoma]

Are they both not human?
Do not both call for death?
Only thing different is who and how its judged.

No, it's two completely different issues, and it's irrational to cloud the two. Now, do you want your thread to be about the death penalty or do you want it to be about abortion?

Its about death.

Oh, I thought it was about the death penalty.

When a court decides to render a death penalty it results in death. When a woman chooses abortion it results in death. One gets a trial and one does not.

A fetus has the potential to become a person but cannot live outside of the womb. It is completely legal for a woman to decide whether she wants to carry to term. A person on death row is already a person not living inside of a womb. Do you see the difference?

Yes, being the most vulnerable = not a person
(For those that are prochoice/abortion)

 

[Carla_Danger]

No, it's two completely different issues, and it's irrational to cloud the two. Now, do you want your thread to be about the death penalty or do you want it to be about abortion?

Its about death.

Oh, I thought it was about the death penalty.

When a court decides to render a death penalty it results in death. When a woman chooses abortion it results in death. One gets a trial and one does not.

A fetus has the potential to become a person but cannot live outside of the womb. It is completely legal for a woman to decide whether she wants to carry to term. A person on death row is already a person not living inside of a womb. Do you see the difference?

Yes, being the most vulnerable = not a person
(For those that are prochoice/abortion)

Abortion has nothing to do with the death penalty, which is the title of this thread.

 

[JoeMoma]

Its about death.

Oh, I thought it was about the death penalty.

When a court decides to render a death penalty it results in death. When a woman chooses abortion it results in death. One gets a trial and one does not.

A fetus has the potential to become a person but cannot live outside of the womb. It is completely legal for a woman to decide whether she wants to carry to term. A person on death row is already a person not living inside of a womb. Do you see the difference?

Yes, being the most vulnerable = not a person
(For those that are prochoice/abortion)

Abortion has nothing to do with the death penalty, which is the title of this thread.

I agree that this thread started as a thread about the death penalty for criminals. That being said, one can make a tangential discussion relating the death penalty to abortion. That discussion, if made, probably deserves it's own thread.

 

[Carla_Danger]

Oh, I thought it was about the death penalty.

When a court decides to render a death penalty it results in death. When a woman chooses abortion it results in death. One gets a trial and one does not.

A fetus has the potential to become a person but cannot live outside of the womb. It is completely legal for a woman to decide whether she wants to carry to term. A person on death row is already a person not living inside of a womb. Do you see the difference?

Yes, being the most vulnerable = not a person
(For those that are prochoice/abortion)

Abortion has nothing to do with the death penalty, which is the title of this thread.

I agree that this thread started as a thread about the death penalty for criminals. That being said, one can make a tangential discussion relating the death penalty to abortion. That discussion, if made, probably deserves it's own thread.

Then I'll discuss the death penalty on this thread, and abortion over on the abortion thread.

 

[JoeMoma]

That's fine with me; however, I will be quite surprised if DF doesn't bring up abortion anymore on this thread.

 

[Skull Pilot]

How much more of a chance of being wrong do experts in forensic science and other related disciplines have of being wrong over 12 random people pulled from the census list?

We can barely find enough people who are qualified to do forensic science to actually DO forensic science... and you want to pull them to be professional jurors?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/07/16/untested-rape-kits-evidence-across-usa/29902199/

Seems like a great job opportunity
Imagine the money that could be made

But if you think 12 random sheep forced to sit on a jury will do a better job judging evidence then don't whine abut the system being unfair

 

[Conservative65]

I don't think any other subject stirs up as much as the death penalty, short of abortion. The biggest problem is that while liberal democrats FIGHT any inclusion of morality in abortion they INSIST on its placement when talking about the death penalty. They CLAIM the right has a flawed idea of morals when it comes to the death penalty and that simply is NOT the case.

THE DEATH PENALTY IS INHUMANE
Killing an innocent in the womb that has committed no crime is inhumane. Killing a murderer a rapist or a child molester is justice. A given percentage of the populace is simply going to be criminals. There is no utopia no programs that is going to change that. And people simply need to be adult enough to accept that.

THE DEATH PENALTY SHOULD BE PAINLESS
Why? Granted I am not saying burn them at the stake but why should it HAVE to be painless? Down here in Arizona in the town I live in we had a meth head passing through town that beat a woman to death for her lap top and some change. Anybody care to guess how long it takes to get beat to death? Reports at the time said her beating MAY have taken 15 to 20 minutes. Why does his death HAVE to be painless? Why should he be allowed to just go to sleep?

THE DEAD BODY CAN TRAUMATIZE THE FAMILY
That's a good thing, its a wake up call your family has a failure in parenting OR where you live has a failure in community. Its the result of a socially unacceptable act. They USED to do it in public and people used to bring their children. It was a lesson is social morality. If you behave this way then that is the result.

THE DEATH PENALTY SHOULD NOT BE PUBLIC
Wrong again as there is every reason FOR it to be public. I am not talking required to watch but available. I would go so far as to leave it open to the press. I would allow it to be televised. The victims, their families and the general population have a RIGHT to see their justice system work.

Fury

I simply do not trust the government to murder it's citizens as a "punishment."

Then make juries mandatory in death penalty cases. Problem solved.

Nope. The states have been known to do some pretty shady things. No way.

Texas has a law if you have 3 people who saw it you go to the front of the line.

Texas has lots of stupid laws. I wonder how hard it would be to find three people who really don't like you?

I would only have to find two more in your case.

 

[Conservative65]

ALL of the civilized country have done away with the DP. We are amongst third world countries with our use of the DP.

So you would argue its civilized to kill a unborn child but NOT civilized to kill a rapist?

I would argue that the two have nothing to do with the other.

I, without a doubt, claim you're wrong.

 

[Conservative65]

Believe me, it's not easy to be anti DP. You don't think I hear about cases that make me want to strangle the perp myself? Of course I do. I get upset like anyone else, BUT I try to not let my emotions overcome my logic.

I did not write the OP from an emotional point. I wrote from the logical point. YOUR argument is emotional.

From a logical point we have killed innocent people while the guilty went free. That's stupid, especially when it is cheaper to lock them up forever than it is to kill them. Come back when you can guarantee that only the guilty will die.

Come back when letting the guilty murderer live brings back the innocent person(s) they killed.

 

[Conservative65]

Believe me, it's not easy to be anti DP. You don't think I hear about cases that make me want to strangle the perp myself? Of course I do. I get upset like anyone else, BUT I try to not let my emotions overcome my logic.

You've argued with nothing but emotion.

 

[JoeB131]

Seems like a great job opportunity
Imagine the money that could be made

But if you think 12 random sheep forced to sit on a jury will do a better job judging evidence then don't whine abut the system being unfair

Ah, the Malignant Narcissist still thinks he's better than the rest of us. Why is that a surprise.

Here's the thing. A lawyer friend of my said you go to a jury if you are arguing human issues, you go to a judge to argue the law.

The problem with people getting sent to death row is NOT an issue of jurors. The Jurors are doing their jobs. The problem is prosecutors withholding evidence, police beating confessions out of people, and public defenders who are either overworked or incompetent.

ANd who does the malignant narcissist want to blame? 12 regular citizens taking time out of their lives to do their civic duty. Civic Duty. Telling that to the Malignant Narcissist is like showing a cross to a vampire.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Seems like a great job opportunity
Imagine the money that could be made

But if you think 12 random sheep forced to sit on a jury will do a better job judging evidence then don't whine abut the system being unfair

Ah, the Malignant Narcissist still thinks he's better than the rest of us. Why is that a surprise.

Here's the thing. A lawyer friend of my said you go to a jury if you are arguing human issues, you go to a judge to argue the law.

The problem with people getting sent to death row is NOT an issue of jurors. The Jurors are doing their jobs. The problem is prosecutors withholding evidence, police beating confessions out of people, and public defenders who are either overworked or incompetent.

ANd who does the malignant narcissist want to blame? 12 regular citizens taking time out of their lives to do their civic duty. Civic Duty. Telling that to the Malignant Narcissist is like showing a cross to a vampire.

Taking the time you mean forced to serve don't you?

12 people who resent being forced to interrupt their lives and just want to get back home to their TVs deciding your fate

And yes the average sheep knows JACK SHIT about evidence and forensic science and they convict people on emotion because lawyers turn trials into emotional not rational arguments

 

[JoeB131]

Taking the time you mean forced to serve don't you?

12 people who resent being forced to interrupt their lives and just want to get back home to their TVs deciding your fate

And yes the average sheep knows JACK SHIT about evidence and forensic science and they convict people on emotion because lawyers turn trials into emotional not rational arguments

I think that you refer to hard working folks as "Sheep" is kind of indicative. But psychoanalyzing you would be sort of depressing.

If the Jury didn't understand forensics, it's because the prosecutors and defense lawyers did a crappy job explaining it.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Taking the time you mean forced to serve don't you?

12 people who resent being forced to interrupt their lives and just want to get back home to their TVs deciding your fate

And yes the average sheep knows JACK SHIT about evidence and forensic science and they convict people on emotion because lawyers turn trials into emotional not rational arguments

I think that you refer to hard working folks as "Sheep" is kind of indicative. But psychoanalyzing you would be sort of depressing.

If the Jury didn't understand forensics, it's because the prosecutors and defense lawyers did a crappy job explaining it.

95% of people are followers

So tell me the next time you need surgery why don't you just pick 12 random people from the streets and let them decide for you after all it's not like your life matters enough to use experts

 

[JoeB131]

95% of people are followers

So tell me the next time you need surgery why don't you just pick 12 random people from the streets and let them decide for you after all it's not like your life matters enough to use experts

Wow, apples and oranges... apples and oranges.

I would have experts, I hope. I will have a lawyer and he'll hire experts.

Again, the problem isn't the juries. It's corrupt cops and prosecutors, and inept lawyers.

Fund public defenders at the same level as prosecutors, you'll see a lot less errors.

 

[indago]

I saw a case where the jury flipped a coin to determine guilt or innocence. It wasn't a death penalty case.