The Culture of Rape

[strollingbones]

I was in the Navy, 3 shipmates were accused of raping a local.

Instead of keeping them on the ship they were handed over to the Italians and put in prison.

In Italian prison, if someone doesn't bring you food, you don't eat.

after ~ 18 months, turned out she lied.


now please prove the military has a culture of rape.

What a lovely story.

Can you prove it?

This is the unfortunate "other side of the coin" that ruins lives and does untold damage to actual victims of rape.

False claims of rape make it very difficult to help victims who need it. It jams up the judicial system and crowds prisons, making it more difficult to prosecute rapist.

i hate to hear a 'false rape' thing...crystal magnam will always be a prime example of that...and twana bradley.....but think of all the unreported rapes.....or as marty says the 'questionable' rapes.....i dont get what the a questionable rape is.....if she says no...its rape...

 

[strollingbones]

amazing how cruelty to animals and then to humans just goes hand in hand....i wonder if there will be a video of rape posted soon?

 

[editec]

So what are you asking here boop?

If someone believes that no such culture of rape exists, I want to hear the logic that goes into that mindset.

That's illogical, BD.

YOU are insisting that such a culture exists, ergo, it falls to you to prove it.

 

[strollingbones]

lets define rape culture:


Rape culture is a concept which links rape and sexual violence to the culture of a society, and in which prevalent attitudes and practices normalize, excuse, tolerate, and even condone rape.

rape and sexual violence...look at video games and movies....movies are now pg13 but very violent are alloweded

tv shows are shameful in this...sons of anarchy comes to mind....

i think the culture exists in the us and is encouraged by many things and people.....look at fashion...the waif look...the barely legal porn sites....people are all enraged over rape etc but do very little about it....

ask the ladies castro kidnapped....no one noticed them for how long?

 

[martybegan]

What a lovely story.

Can you prove it?

This is the unfortunate "other side of the coin" that ruins lives and does untold damage to actual victims of rape.

False claims of rape make it very difficult to help victims who need it. It jams up the judicial system and crowds prisons, making it more difficult to prosecute rapist.

i hate to hear a 'false rape' thing...crystal magnam will always be a prime example of that...and twana bradley.....but think of all the unreported rapes.....or as marty says the 'questionable' rapes.....i dont get what the a questionable rape is.....if she says no...its rape...

What about the "ex post facto" no? He's drunk, She's drunk, intoxicated consent was given, and the next day she decides it wasnt a good idea. Both were intoxicated, but to some people the woman can still consider it "rape" due to lowered mental accumen.

Next morning regret does not a rape create.

 

[strollingbones]

you are the one that seems to have that problem of the morning after rape..i never have....i can say no strongly and mean it..and perhaps it was the company of men i have chosen...rape was not their methods of seduction.....and i never was one to have to get drunk to have a good romp

i feel sorry for men who have to use drugs of any type to get laid...says more about the man than it does the woman

 

[strollingbones]

i feel sorry for anyone who has to cloud the largest sexual organ...the brain to have sex..but that is another topic

 

[martybegan]

you are the one that seems to have that problem of the morning after rape..i never have....i can say no strongly and mean it..and perhaps it was the company of men i have chosen...rape was not their methods of seduction.....and i never was one to have to get drunk to have a good romp

i feel sorry for men who have to use drugs of any type to get laid...says more about the man than it does the woman

Now if you are talking about "spiking" then that is different, that is a willful use of an intoxicant to reduce the resitiance to ones advances. Usually those occur with the girl completely unconcious, and yes, that is 100% rape.

Time have changed strolling, drunken college hookups were the norm in the 90's when I was in college, and it has gotten worse as "30 has become the new 20".

I was never part of the hookup culture (i didnt get over my shyness around women till my 30's), but its there. and when someone decides the next morning that they didnt really want to sleep with Dylan and cries "rape" it leads to people desensitizing to actual rape.

 

[strollingbones]

marty honey ...times may have changed but no is still no and rape is still rape....nothing will change that....

 

[martybegan]

marty honey ...times may have changed but no is still no and rape is still rape....nothing will change that....

Even a "no" the next morning?

I disagree on that.

 

[strollingbones]

okay my son is 31....i do not get this no the next morning ...is that a false rape accusation? i have said what i think of that.....are you saying that you and the girl are so drunk neither can remember what happened? i have never been big for that boy was i drunk last night.....

but i have always told my son..i dont care if you are nekkid and going in for the landing....if she says no.....you stop....simple as that...

 

[strollingbones]

no is not a secret yes under any circumstances in bed

 

[editec]

lets define rape culture:


Rape culture is a concept which links rape and sexual violence to the culture of a society, and in which prevalent attitudes and practices normalize, excuse, tolerate, and even condone rape.

Can you cite an example of this culture excusing, tolerating or condoning rape? (of course "this culture: is a pretty vague term, so I am asking for clarification)

rape and sexual violence...look at video games and movies....movies are now pg13 but very violent are alloweded

I see lots of celebration of violence but not much celebration of rape. Again...got an example?

tv shows are shameful in this...sons of anarchy comes to mind....

Saw the first season or two...don't remember them celebrating rape,tho.

i think the culture exists in the us and is encouraged by many things and people.....look at fashion...

What FASHION encourages or celebrates rape?

the waif look...

That encourages or celebrates rape? How?

the barely legal porn sites....

That encourages or celebrates rape?

people are all enraged over rape etc but do very little about it....

Like what should they be doing exactly?

ask the ladies castro kidnapped....no one noticed them for how long?

YOU mean that guy who women and raped and killed them? How did society encourage this?

I do not think our society encourages a RAPE CULTURE.

So far you've made the charge but haven't really proven it exists.

 

[strollingbones]

you refuse to see the examples already sited

 

[martybegan]

okay my son is 31....i do not get this no the next morning ...is that a false rape accusation? i have said what i think of that.....are you saying that you and the girl are so drunk neither can remember what happened? i have never been big for that boy was i drunk last night.....

but i have always told my son..i dont care if you are nekkid and going in for the landing....if she says no.....you stop....simple as that...

I was brought up that way as well. However nature and passion can make the moment between "stop" and the stopping happening last a few seconds. When you start calling that "rape" the same as violent rape, it leads to a lessening of the actual violent rape as a crime.

The case I am talking about is inebriation on both parties, maybe not to the point of drunkeness but to the point of poor decsion. Upon sobriety the woman thinks twice about it, and then says she was "raped" due to not being able to given consent via intoxication.

If we want to make that a crime, we have to spell it out, and it cannot be "rape" as we see it in the traditonal sense, as that lessens the impact violent or actually coerced rape has.

 

[strollingbones]

ahhh the consent via intoxication....okay i have to walk .....it takes about an hour or more...i will think on that....and reply after giving it some thought

 

[strollingbones]

perhaps we should also define the concept of rape.....where does one become incapable of consent?
many mentally handicapped people have a strong sexual drive but can they consent to sex?

 

[martybegan]

perhaps we should also define the concept of rape.....where does one become incapable of consent?
many mentally handicapped people have a strong sexual drive but can they consent to sex?

Its not only a question of how one becomes incapable, its also of how, and if the other person is also incabable.

Listen, I know men and women are different, and in this case the end result is different for both, but when it comes to law, and if we want to create a gender neutral society, one gender cannot get special consideration unless we spell it out explicitly, and have a damn good reason for it.

In the case of someone spiking a girls drink to have sex with her, the guy is purposefully removing the womans ability to provide informed consent, the use of drugs to remove consent is a crime, and thus the sex is a crime.

In the case of them both willfully becoming drunk, having sex that, at the time, was not conested, and then the woman going back on her drunken consent to me cannot meet the level of "rape" as the intoxication was entered willingly by both parties.

If a sober guy however, has sex with an obviously plastered woman, there however is a grey area, which depends on the level of intoxication. I he banged her when she was unconcsious? yeah, thats a sexual assault, but if she's concious, and willing while drunk?
Not an assault to me.

When it comes to consent and the mentally disabled, what of the case where both parties are disabled and cannot truly give "consent" is that rape? even if in their limited capacity they did it willingly? Do the girls parents get to decide consent for her?

 

[strollingbones]

perhaps we should also define the concept of rape.....where does one become incapable of consent?
many mentally handicapped people have a strong sexual drive but can they consent to sex?

Its not only a question of how one becomes incapable, its also of how, and if the other person is also incabable.

***Listen, I know men and women are different, and in this case the end result is different for both, but when it comes to law, and if we want to create a gender neutral society, one gender cannot get special consideration unless we spell it out explicitly, and have a damn good reason for it.

***i do not see rape as a gender bias...men are raped daily....

In the case of someone spiking a girls drink to have sex with her, the guy is purposefully removing the womans ability to provide informed consent, the use of drugs to remove consent is a crime, and thus the sex is a crime.

***spiking (roofies?) that is just plain wrong and is rape in my book

In the case of them both willfully becoming drunk, having sex that, at the time, was not conested, and then the woman going back on her drunken consent to me cannot meet the level of "rape" as the intoxication was entered willingly by both parties.

***and we begin the slide down the slippery slope....we have all awoken with what was called a coyote hangover...(where you would asoon chew your arm off as wake up the person next to you) my heyday was the 70's...ahhh yes....no roofies we used ludes..talk about sex with the dead but i digress...on the both drunk and then she goes all..... you raped me....to keep face or whatever..that is just wrong...but then again how do you prove consent etc?

If a sober guy however, has sex with an obviously plastered woman, there however is a grey area, which depends on the level of intoxication. I he banged her when she was unconcsious? yeah, thats a sexual assault, but if she's concious, and willing while drunk?
Not an assault to me.

***if one takes advantage of a drunken woman? yes that is assault....how many drunken woman are raped in bars? i think that is assault

When it comes to consent and the mentally disabled, what of the case where both parties are disabled and cannot truly give "consent" is that rape? even if in their limited capacity they did it willingly? Do the girls parents get to decide consent for her?

*** marks my replies*

now the real sticky wicket....mentally handicapped...hard to pick your way thru this landmine....what if they are both of age and consent....can either really consent.....who is to say a so called 'normal' person cannot fall in love with someone handicapped? sex is a strong drive ......why do we want to deny them that drive and satisfaction but how to keep them from being exploited...now we are breaching subjects neither of us is wise enough to decide.

 

[martybegan]

perhaps we should also define the concept of rape.....where does one become incapable of consent?
many mentally handicapped people have a strong sexual drive but can they consent to sex?

Its not only a question of how one becomes incapable, its also of how, and if the other person is also incabable.

Listen, I know men and women are different, and in this case the end result is different for both, but when it comes to law, and if we want to create a gender neutral society, one gender cannot get special consideration unless we spell it out explicitly, and have a damn good reason for it.

i do not see rape as a gender bias...men are raped daily....

In the case of someone spiking a girls drink to have sex with her, the guy is purposefully removing the womans ability to provide informed consent, the use of drugs to remove consent is a crime, and thus the sex is a crime.

spiking (roofies?) that is just plain wrong and is rape in my book

In the case of them both willfully becoming drunk, having sex that, at the time, was not conested, and then the woman going back on her drunken consent to me cannot meet the level of "rape" as the intoxication was entered willingly by both parties.

and we begin the slide down the slippery slope....we have all awoken with what was called a coyote hangover...(where you would asoon chew your arm off as wake up the person next to you) my heyday was the 70's...ahhh yes....no roofies we used ludes..talk about sex with the dead but i digress...on the both drunk and then she goes all..... you raped me....to keep face or whatever..that is just wrong...but then again how do you prove consent etc?

If a sober guy however, has sex with an obviously plastered woman, there however is a grey area, which depends on the level of intoxication. I he banged her when she was unconcsious? yeah, thats a sexual assault, but if she's concious, and willing while drunk?
Not an assault to me.

if one takes advantage of a drunken woman? yes that is assault....how many drunken woman are raped in bars? i think that is assault

When it comes to consent and the mentally disabled, what of the case where both parties are disabled and cannot truly give "consent" is that rape? even if in their limited capacity they did it willingly? Do the girls parents get to decide consent for her?

now the real sticky wicket....mentally handicapped...hard to pick your way thru this landmine....what if they are both of age and consent....can either really consent.....who is to say a so called 'normal' person cannot fall in love with someone handicapped? sex is a strong drive ......why do we want to deny them that drive and satisfaction but how to keep them from being exploited...now we are breaching subjects neither of us is wise enough to decide.

This is a situation where the law has to be flexible, and not rigidly enforced. However the main issue would be the degree of mental restriction. There is something creepy about a normally functional person being with a severely mentally handicapped person as opposed to someone who is marginal. When both are around the same degree of impairment however, and no force is used, I cannot see how it is rape. In that case it is up to the guardians to decide on the relationship, however I see no Criminal case here.

This is such a small subset of the debate, however, and it is more academic than anything, as compared to the "date rape" issue, which to me HAS to be divded between forced intercourse and consensual intercourse brought on by mutually altered mental states.

I think the whole issue really boils down to intent. Someone who uses a knife, or roofies, or pushes themself while sober on someone unconscious has the INTENT to have sex regardless of the opinon of the other party, at the time of the intercourse. When two people are drunk, have sex willingly, and then one decides it wasnt a hot idea, then the INTENT at the time was both having sex willingly, only now has one's INTENT been changed. it doesnt change the fact that the guy thought she was A-OK with it at the time it happened.