The Constitution Prohibits Trump From Ever Being President Again

[HikerGuy83]

Trump will 47.

Suck on it.

 

[Faun]

You all keep saying I omitted words and changed the meaning. I did no such thing lol. I’ve even quoted the full amendment. Even in the post you replied to, I said “shall have the power”. It’s YOU who is changing the meaning, by ignoring the operative word “shall” which is a word that denotes a mandate. It doesn’t say “Congress MAY pass legislation”, it says “SHALL pass legislation”, which means it’s a power they have. Also, it doesn’t say anywhere in the constitution that states have the right to declare an insurrection, the 14AS5 says CONGRESS does.

Congress shall have the power to enforce…that’s a clear statement, it doesn’t says “Congress and the states shall…”. That means that there has to be some action on the part of Congress to enforce the amendment. And once again, we come full circle to the U.S. code 2383…which is the legislation they passed.

But digress, you and I will get nowhere in this discussion..so, in all reality…I hope they actually do disqual trump from several states, but, I don’t think you’re going to like how that turns out, because red states are starting to talk about taking Biden off the ballot in their states.

So, basically, you disqualify Trump, they’ll disqualify Biden…neither of them will get elected and each side will have to vote for someone else.

That should be fun….

You're still lying.

This...

"CONGRESS shall enforce the provisions of that article by appropriate legislation."​

... is NOT the same as ...

"The Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article."​

Where the former requires Congress to enforce the 14th Amendment; while the latter merely gives Congress the option to enforce it.

 

[Esdraelon]

No.

The left vehemently opposes the Democrats and their unprecedented, dangerous sedition in Colorado.

Even the Democrat-led Confederacy did not deny Lincoln's victory, choosing instead secession.

SCOTUS must act with lightning speed to strike Colorado's treason down.

If they don't, the chaos they say they want to avoid will come at their own hands.

 

[Faun]

But digress, you and I will get nowhere in this discussion..so, in all reality…I hope they actually do disqual trump from several states, but, I don’t think you’re going to like how that turns out, because red states are starting to talk about taking Biden off the ballot in their states.

So, basically, you disqualify Trump, they’ll disqualify Biden…neither of them will get elected and each side will have to vote for someone else.

That should be fun….

Great. Well Kamala Harris will be overseeing the joint session on January 6, 2025. So if red states do that, she can simply ignore their electors in accordance with Trump doctrine.

 

[Faun]

Nah, there was no incitement, there was some divisive language, and he told everyone the election had been stolen, but he never even once hinted at people attack the capitol. Just the opposite in fact.

So when he told them to march to the Capitol to make their voices heard, how were they supposed to do that while Congress was inside the Capitol building and they were outside?

Even worse, they threatened to kill Pence, drag politicians through the streets and cut their heads off.

Who inspired such venomous ire against Pence if not Trump?

 

[Faun]

How many times must I say this, the 14th amendment is enforced by CONGRESS through passing legislation, which is a criminal code.

Yes, if they so choose. But they are not the only body which can enforce the 14th Amendment.

 

[Faun]

You are trying to assert that a Colorado state court can convict someone as a civil matter that the federal government is trying to prosecute criminally, under the same amendment.

You are thoroughly confused. That Colorado court did NOT convict Trump of anything.

 

[Faun]

…doesn’t give states any power in enforcing the 14th amendment.

Where does it say a state can’t enforce it??

 

[MinTrut]

If they don't, the chaos they say they want to avoid will come at their own hands.

Interesting times, right?

Trump will be on the ballot in CO at this point, but Maine Democrats are committing insurrection now, so SCOTUS must act as quickly as challenges can be brought to this sinister treason.

 

[MinTrut]

So when he told them to march to the Capitol to make their voices heard, how were they supposed to do that while Congress was inside the Capitol building and they were outside?

Peacefully, as Trump implored.

Even worse, they threatened to kill Pence, drag politicians through the streets and cut their heads off.

Wordcrime is real crime.

Who inspired such venomous ire against Pence if not Trump?

Alleged inspiration is criminal...

...said no sane person ever.

 

[Faun]

Peacefully, as Trump implored.

Wordcrime is real crime.

Alleged inspiration is criminal...

...said no sane person ever.

Why not answer the questions I actually asked? Not the ones you imagined.

I asked how were their voices supposed to be heard given Congress was inside the Capitol building but they were outside. Marching peacefully wouldn't get their voices heard.

And I asked who inspired such venomous ire against Pence if not Trump?

Give a name... someone had to inspire that ire. And for what reason did they want to kill Pence?

 

[Dagosa]

doesn’t matter, we keep going in circles here. I’ve explained that section 5 empowers Congress. There is a criminal code for insurrection. The penalties tied to that code could include prison, this is a criminal act, that Congress passed, that the 14th amendment has empowered only them to do.

As I’ve already stated, I think you are incorrect, and neither of us will convince the other so, I’ll state it like I did awhile ago. I really hope the Colorado decision sticks, because I don’t think it’s going to work out like you all think it will.

The right is the one pretending they know the law without a degree. This crowd with Trumper mania doesn’t even believe in climate change which is a huge bellwether for being sane

I‘m just referring to the cases. As far as empowering congress is concerned, states not only have an opportunity to assist in enforce federal laws, they have an obligation when directed to do so. So a state Supreme Court enacting a provision in the US constitution is absolutely appropriate especially when they appropriately delay action until .due process runs it’s course.

what states are doing now is forcing the hand of the Fed to get more involved, especially the USSC

 

[Dagosa]

There is a criminal code for insurrection. The penalties tied to that code could include prison, this is a criminal act, that Congress passed, that the 14th amendment has empowered only them to do.

That’s incorrect. No fines have been levied nor prison time been assigned to Trump. States have the RIGHT and even local govt at the polls have an obligation to self determination in enforcing election laws. There is a provision in the US constitution on eligibility and are not imposing any criminal penalties. Look up the word “ civil”.

It’s a civil not a criminal matter when it comes to eligibility.
Do you actually think that if Obama was born in Kenya to two foreigners, and the feds did nothing, that red states would not have filed grievances with their state govts to have him removed from the ballots? It’s funny when the right keeps complaining about Obama or Biden and not Trump violating election laws….fking hilarious.

The right has been fking with election fraud for decades and the Fed has been acting with the assistance of state and local officials. Even the most red of states don’t want to be known as election fraud havens.

. Now some states want a traitor removed from THEIR BALLOTS to determine their electors …..and now Humpers are arguing they have no right to…pitiful. It’s the first step in your due process.

 

[Dagosa]

Ok, so, insurrection is a criminal offense lol. Are you saying you can charge someone with a civil charge on a criminal statute?

So…is Jack smiths case a criminal or a civil case?

Absolutely. We in the states conduct background checks through federal course and if any federal or state disqualifying offenses or even just situations return, like domestic abuse COMPLAINTS , we declare people ineligible. Geesus, some priests are ineligible to drive a school bus because of their past history of complaints filed for child molestation.

 

[Dagosa]

Nah, there was no incitement, there was some divisive language, and he told everyone the election had been stolen, but he never even once hinted at people attack the capitol. Just the opposite in fact.

Domestic abuse complaints even when cases are DISMISSED can show up on background checks when courts DIRECT them to remain. BACKGROUND checks are civil determinants for eligibility to a plethora of state, federal and local employment opportunities. Having sufficient evidence as adjudge by these same courts to being a fking traitor some states argue is enough too.

An election is a civil process for public employment in jobs that REPRESENT the citizenry. States are deciding they don’t want a traitor on their ballots when their is enough evidence for their state courts to say so.

 

[Dagosa]

Ok, so, insurrection is a criminal offense lol. Are you saying you can charge someone with a civil charge on a criminal statute?

So…is Jack smiths case a criminal or a civil case?

We disqualify people all the time from job opportunities just based on evidence as determined by a court to be suffivient and not the full due process of a trial.

Having an insane man promote violence of any type and especially in insurrection activities, CONSTANTLY , should be enough to have his eligibility for any public employment any kind, passed on by court judges at a minimum.

 

[ThisIsMe]

Amendment 14 is simple. You engage in any form of insurrection, you can’t run for president. Case closed.

Nope, more to it than that…but let’s go with your version and we’ll just start disqualifying everyone we don’t like.

 

[ThisIsMe]

You're still lying.

This...

"CONGRESS shall enforce the provisions of that article by appropriate legislation."​

... is NOT the same as ...

"The Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article."​

Where the former requires Congress to enforce the 14th Amendment; while the latter merely gives Congress the option to enforce it.

In both sentences, it’s the same meaning. I didn’t change the meaning. I was being brief but I had posted the full section many times. You’re splitting hairs here.

In both cases it says “Congress SHALL have the power..” not “Congress MAY have the power..”it doesn’t say “Congress AND STATES” shall have the power.

Ok, let’s go with this. Are you suggesting that the amendment was written for ANYONE but that “oh and Congress will also be able to do this”? If the meaning is what to think it is, the entire writing of section 5 would have been pointless, they could have just stopped at section 4, because apparently, your version is that the 14th amendment is self enforcing, and any court or state can just do it on their own.

Should we look at all the other times the constitution uses the word “shall” and say “well they could…but they don’t have to…we can leave that up to other bodies”?

Ok then. Let’s play that game. Good luck getting any president to run 2 terms since many different courts can interpret the constitution and laws in many different ways. So, what it will boil down to is, people in certain states just won’t be able to vote for the candidate if their choosing.

 

[ThisIsMe]

Great. Well Kamala Harris will be overseeing the joint session on January 6, 2025. So if red states do that, she can simply ignore their electors in accordance with Trump doctrine.

Ahh so it’s legit then? Funny how one changes their mind when it’s for their benefit..

 

[ThisIsMe]

That’s incorrect. No fines have been levied nor prison time been assigned to Trump. States have the RIGHT and even local govt at the polls have an obligation to self determination in enforcing election laws. There is a provision in the US constitution on eligibility and are not imposing any criminal penalties. Look up the word “ civil”.

It’s a civil not a criminal matter when it comes to eligibility.
Do you actually think that if Obama was born in Kenya to two foreigners, and the feds did nothing, that red states would not have filed grievances with their state govts to have him removed from the ballots? It’s funny when the right keeps complaining about Obama or Biden and not Trump violating election laws….fking hilarious.

The right has been fking with election fraud for decades and the Fed has been acting with the assistance of state and local officials. Even the most red of states don’t want to be known as election fraud havens.

. Now some states want a traitor removed from THEIR BALLOTS to determine their electors …..and now Humpers are arguing they have no right to…pitiful. It’s the first step in your due process.

Ok then, it’s a civil matter..then Jack smiths case is dead, since trump has already been convicted in a Colorado court…Jack smiths case runs afoul of double jeopardy.

There ya go…