The Christian Testimonies

[guno]

Christianity is about how humans are saved legitimately.

God is incompatible with sin. He however would like to build an eternity to live with humans with freewill. Law is designed to reflect the incompatibility for those with freewill to obey in order to live with God in such an eternity.

Judgment is to qualify by Law who shall enter Heaven to live with God. Somehow Adam broke it and was put outside God's realm. Humans ever since are no longer inside God's realm. Instead we are in a realm where Satan is said to be the god of this world. Satan has the ability to deceive the world. When put in such a realm, no humans can keep this set of Law in full. In front of this absolute set of Law, no one is righteous, everyone is dead without exception.

In an absolute sense, no humans after Adam can ever pass the Judgment of God's Law to enter the gate of Heaven.

God however provides a solution for His Elect to be legitimately brought to Heaven. The solution is Jesus Christ. With Jesus Christ's once and for all sacrifice, it makes possible for God to grant a covenant to humans for them to be savable at all.

A covenant basically says, "since you humans cannot keep God's Law in full, you are give a chosen set of Law (such as Mosaic Law in a covenant granted to the Jews) which you can keep to a standard God specifies such that you will be save by God's Grace through Jesus Christ."

However as time goes by, even this chosen set of Law will put everyone to death, not even the righteous (people of God's Elect) can keep this chosen set of Law. Then God will upgrade the covenant with a newer one which will suppress the effect of Law while increasing the Grace in order for the righteous to be separated from the wicked.

This is done through successive covenants till the His Grace has been increased to 100%. It becomes the last and final and permanent covenant which is called the New Covenant (brought us by Jesus Himself). The chosen set of Law in a covenant disappeared, all we have is God's Grace through Jesus Christ. We only need faith in Christ/God to be saved.

Judaism does not believe in the devil, but do believe in Satan (who more properly should be called "the Satan"). As this demonstrates, the Jewish view of Satan is very different than the Christian one. Here's a summary of the Jewish view; you can also find information at Alyza (Gretchen) Shapiro's web site at Geocities has shut down

The word satan means "challenger", "difficulty", or "distraction" (note that it is not a proper name). With the leading ha- to make haSatan, it refers to /the/ challenger. This describes Satan as the angel who is the embodiment of man's challenges. HaSatan works for God. His job is to make choosing good over evil enough of a challenge so that it can be a meaningful choice. In other words, haSatan is an angel whose mission it is to add difficulty, challenges, and growth experiences to life. Contrast this to Christianity, which sees Satan as God's opponent. In Jewish thought, the idea that there exists anything capable of setting itself up as God's opponent would be considered overly polytheistic—you are setting up the devil to be a god or demigod.

my sense of the jewish sense of SATAN----is not a conscious being---the word is a kind of personification of a force of nature----
a negative force on the actions and fortunes----specifically, on PEOPLE. In jewish thought G-d can create humanoids that represent natural forces for some purposes of His own.. -----of course---getting down---and further down----and down down down
in astrophysics-------all of the universe is insubstantial------VIBRATIONS (I don't really understand any of this stuff)

the word is a kind of personification of a force of nature----

Agreed, the point is satan isn't a separate entity as the christians see it in their polytheistic religion . If Hashem is one and All, how can there anything be out side

 

[irosie91]

Christianity is about how humans are saved legitimately.

God is incompatible with sin. He however would like to build an eternity to live with humans with freewill. Law is designed to reflect the incompatibility for those with freewill to obey in order to live with God in such an eternity.

Judgment is to qualify by Law who shall enter Heaven to live with God. Somehow Adam broke it and was put outside God's realm. Humans ever since are no longer inside God's realm. Instead we are in a realm where Satan is said to be the god of this world. Satan has the ability to deceive the world. When put in such a realm, no humans can keep this set of Law in full. In front of this absolute set of Law, no one is righteous, everyone is dead without exception.

In an absolute sense, no humans after Adam can ever pass the Judgment of God's Law to enter the gate of Heaven.

God however provides a solution for His Elect to be legitimately brought to Heaven. The solution is Jesus Christ. With Jesus Christ's once and for all sacrifice, it makes possible for God to grant a covenant to humans for them to be savable at all.

A covenant basically says, "since you humans cannot keep God's Law in full, you are give a chosen set of Law (such as Mosaic Law in a covenant granted to the Jews) which you can keep to a standard God specifies such that you will be save by God's Grace through Jesus Christ."

However as time goes by, even this chosen set of Law will put everyone to death, not even the righteous (people of God's Elect) can keep this chosen set of Law. Then God will upgrade the covenant with a newer one which will suppress the effect of Law while increasing the Grace in order for the righteous to be separated from the wicked.

This is done through successive covenants till the His Grace has been increased to 100%. It becomes the last and final and permanent covenant which is called the New Covenant (brought us by Jesus Himself). The chosen set of Law in a covenant disappeared, all we have is God's Grace through Jesus Christ. We only need faith in Christ/God to be saved.

Judaism does not believe in the devil, but do believe in Satan (who more properly should be called "the Satan"). As this demonstrates, the Jewish view of Satan is very different than the Christian one. Here's a summary of the Jewish view; you can also find information at Alyza (Gretchen) Shapiro's web site at Geocities has shut down

The word satan means "challenger", "difficulty", or "distraction" (note that it is not a proper name). With the leading ha- to make haSatan, it refers to /the/ challenger. This describes Satan as the angel who is the embodiment of man's challenges. HaSatan works for God. His job is to make choosing good over evil enough of a challenge so that it can be a meaningful choice. In other words, haSatan is an angel whose mission it is to add difficulty, challenges, and growth experiences to life. Contrast this to Christianity, which sees Satan as God's opponent. In Jewish thought, the idea that there exists anything capable of setting itself up as God's opponent would be considered overly polytheistic—you are setting up the devil to be a god or demigod.

my sense of the jewish sense of SATAN----is not a conscious being---the word is a kind of personification of a force of nature----
a negative force on the actions and fortunes----specifically, on PEOPLE. In jewish thought G-d can create humanoids that represent natural forces for some purposes of His own.. -----of course---getting down---and further down----and down down down
in astrophysics-------all of the universe is insubstantial------VIBRATIONS (I don't really understand any of this stuff)

the word is a kind of personification of a force of nature----

Agreed, the point is satan isn't a separate entity as the christians see it in their polytheistic religion . If Hashem is one and All, how can there anything be out side

Christians have another problem----another person called "the holy ghost" (in English) ----it is---I believe---a kind of weird translation
of "shechinah" I have no idea how she is conceptualized----
the artistic renditions of SATAN----are kinda exciting----anyone know of any artistic conceptualizations of ----miss ghost, the holy???

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Christianity is about how humans are saved legitimately.

God is incompatible with sin. He however would like to build an eternity to live with humans with freewill. Law is designed to reflect the incompatibility for those with freewill to obey in order to live with God in such an eternity.

Judgment is to qualify by Law who shall enter Heaven to live with God. Somehow Adam broke it and was put outside God's realm. Humans ever since are no longer inside God's realm. Instead we are in a realm where Satan is said to be the god of this world. Satan has the ability to deceive the world. When put in such a realm, no humans can keep this set of Law in full. In front of this absolute set of Law, no one is righteous, everyone is dead without exception.

In an absolute sense, no humans after Adam can ever pass the Judgment of God's Law to enter the gate of Heaven.

God however provides a solution for His Elect to be legitimately brought to Heaven. The solution is Jesus Christ. With Jesus Christ's once and for all sacrifice, it makes possible for God to grant a covenant to humans for them to be savable at all.

A covenant basically says, "since you humans cannot keep God's Law in full, you are give a chosen set of Law (such as Mosaic Law in a covenant granted to the Jews) which you can keep to a standard God specifies such that you will be save by God's Grace through Jesus Christ."

However as time goes by, even this chosen set of Law will put everyone to death, not even the righteous (people of God's Elect) can keep this chosen set of Law. Then God will upgrade the covenant with a newer one which will suppress the effect of Law while increasing the Grace in order for the righteous to be separated from the wicked.

This is done through successive covenants till the His Grace has been increased to 100%. It becomes the last and final and permanent covenant which is called the New Covenant (brought us by Jesus Himself). The chosen set of Law in a covenant disappeared, all we have is God's Grace through Jesus Christ. We only need faith in Christ/God to be saved.

Judaism does not believe in the devil, but do believe in Satan (who more properly should be called "the Satan"). As this demonstrates, the Jewish view of Satan is very different than the Christian one. Here's a summary of the Jewish view; you can also find information at Alyza (Gretchen) Shapiro's web site at Geocities has shut down

The word satan means "challenger", "difficulty", or "distraction" (note that it is not a proper name). With the leading ha- to make haSatan, it refers to /the/ challenger. This describes Satan as the angel who is the embodiment of man's challenges. HaSatan works for God. His job is to make choosing good over evil enough of a challenge so that it can be a meaningful choice. In other words, haSatan is an angel whose mission it is to add difficulty, challenges, and growth experiences to life. Contrast this to Christianity, which sees Satan as God's opponent. In Jewish thought, the idea that there exists anything capable of setting itself up as God's opponent would be considered overly polytheistic—you are setting up the devil to be a god or demigod.

my sense of the jewish sense of SATAN----is not a conscious being---the word is a kind of personification of a force of nature----
a negative force on the actions and fortunes----specifically, on PEOPLE. In jewish thought G-d can create humanoids that represent natural forces for some purposes of His own.. -----of course---getting down---and further down----and down down down
in astrophysics-------all of the universe is insubstantial------VIBRATIONS (I don't really understand any of this stuff)

the word is a kind of personification of a force of nature----

Agreed, the point is satan isn't a separate entity as the christians see it in their polytheistic religion . If Hashem is one and All, how can there anything be out side

Christians have another problem----another person called "the holy ghost" (in English) ----it is---I believe---a kind of weird translation
of "shechinah" I have no idea how she is conceptualized----
the artistic renditions of SATAN----are kinda exciting----anyone know of any artistic conceptualizations of ----miss ghost, the holy???

The Holy Ghost also called the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of G-d who was with Samson, Gideon, the same Spirit of G-d in Psalm 51 verse 11 David prayed, Cast me not away from thy presence, and take not thy Holy Spirit from me. The Spirit of G-d is not a "she", Rosie..the Spirit of G-d is the power of G-d as it is written, Not by might, not by power but by My Spirit says the LORD. Without the Spirit of G-d drawing men to G-d they could not come - there would be no possibility of salvation. Jesus told the people that all other sin could be forgiven but blasphemy against the Holy Spirit would not be forgiven.

The Shekinah glory you mentioned is a golden mist like cloud - that illuminates a room - when the presence of the LORD shows up mightily it can be seen if G-d opens the persons eyes to see it. It is a most glorious sight. I've seen it before. It hangs in the air like a cloud only it is not white - it is a golden color.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Christianity is about how humans are saved legitimately.

God is incompatible with sin. He however would like to build an eternity to live with humans with freewill. Law is designed to reflect the incompatibility for those with freewill to obey in order to live with God in such an eternity.

Judgment is to qualify by Law who shall enter Heaven to live with God. Somehow Adam broke it and was put outside God's realm. Humans ever since are no longer inside God's realm. Instead we are in a realm where Satan is said to be the god of this world. Satan has the ability to deceive the world. When put in such a realm, no humans can keep this set of Law in full. In front of this absolute set of Law, no one is righteous, everyone is dead without exception.

In an absolute sense, no humans after Adam can ever pass the Judgment of God's Law to enter the gate of Heaven.

God however provides a solution for His Elect to be legitimately brought to Heaven. The solution is Jesus Christ. With Jesus Christ's once and for all sacrifice, it makes possible for God to grant a covenant to humans for them to be savable at all.

A covenant basically says, "since you humans cannot keep God's Law in full, you are give a chosen set of Law (such as Mosaic Law in a covenant granted to the Jews) which you can keep to a standard God specifies such that you will be save by God's Grace through Jesus Christ."

However as time goes by, even this chosen set of Law will put everyone to death, not even the righteous (people of God's Elect) can keep this chosen set of Law. Then God will upgrade the covenant with a newer one which will suppress the effect of Law while increasing the Grace in order for the righteous to be separated from the wicked.

This is done through successive covenants till the His Grace has been increased to 100%. It becomes the last and final and permanent covenant which is called the New Covenant (brought us by Jesus Himself). The chosen set of Law in a covenant disappeared, all we have is God's Grace through Jesus Christ. We only need faith in Christ/God to be saved.

Judaism does not believe in the devil, but do believe in Satan (who more properly should be called "the Satan"). As this demonstrates, the Jewish view of Satan is very different than the Christian one. Here's a summary of the Jewish view; you can also find information at Alyza (Gretchen) Shapiro's web site at Geocities has shut down

The word satan means "challenger", "difficulty", or "distraction" (note that it is not a proper name). With the leading ha- to make haSatan, it refers to /the/ challenger. This describes Satan as the angel who is the embodiment of man's challenges. HaSatan works for God. His job is to make choosing good over evil enough of a challenge so that it can be a meaningful choice. In other words, haSatan is an angel whose mission it is to add difficulty, challenges, and growth experiences to life. Contrast this to Christianity, which sees Satan as God's opponent. In Jewish thought, the idea that there exists anything capable of setting itself up as God's opponent would be considered overly polytheistic—you are setting up the devil to be a god or demigod.

my sense of the jewish sense of SATAN----is not a conscious being---the word is a kind of personification of a force of nature----
a negative force on the actions and fortunes----specifically, on PEOPLE. In jewish thought G-d can create humanoids that represent natural forces for some purposes of His own.. -----of course---getting down---and further down----and down down down
in astrophysics-------all of the universe is insubstantial------VIBRATIONS (I don't really understand any of this stuff)

In Ezekiel 28:12-18 we see the original state of Satan when God created him and named him Lucifer (which means son of the Morning) and if you can hold on here for a minute I'll go get the scriptures and post it so you can see it for yourself, Rosie.

Ezekiel 28:12-18 King James Version (KJV)
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

King James Version (KJV)

So as we can see Lucifer was created as an angel and the Bible tells us that he didn't have to find an instrument in order to worship G-d because he was created to be an instrument of worship. Note verse 13 where G-d says the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. In thee. Those musical instruments were "in him", Rosie. He was a literal instrument of worship!

Note again that the LORD says, You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, till iniquity was found in you. - see verse 15 - and realize that G-d created an angel and named him Lucifer. G-d didn't create the devil. The devil created the devil when he chose sin over the holiness of G-d! What was the result? God tells us in verse 16 - He will cast Lucifer out - as profane - out of His Holy Mountain! Lucifer was cast out of heaven by the work of his own hands. We do not know how many angels went with him in that rebellion but those who rebelled were cast out. G-d makes clear in verse 17 that Lucifer's heart was lifted up because of his beauty and that he (not G-d) corrupted his wisdom for the sake of his splendor.

Again, if we examine Isaiah 14:12-14 we find that G-d is speaking of a real being! His name was called Lucifer. Today he is called Satan and the Devil. This is not some mystical concept - this is a real being - an adversary that is seeking to destroy us! Nothing pleases Satan more than to cause men to believe that he does not exist. He can operate undetected that way and cause even more chaos on the earth! Now let me get Isaiah 14:12-14 Scripture so we can examine that too.

Isaiah 14:12-14 King James Version (KJV)
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

King James Version (KJV)
by Public Domain

As you can see, Satan is a real being, a fallen angel, before he fell he said I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the most High. Yes, that was Satan's desire to exalt his throne above the stars of God, to take the worship that belonged to God and have it for himself. He wanted to be like God. This was what corrupted Satan. It is a sin to touch G-d's Glory, to seek G-d's glory or the worship of any man. This is why you see those who do it self - destruct - Hollywood stars, movie stars, music stars, famous politicians, athletes who desire to be worshiped, they are seeking the worship of men and women and there is only one who is worthy of our worship and that is G-d. Why do some people do this? Because pride has entered their heart and they are like their father the devil. Their prideful hearts deceive them into believing they are entitled to be worshiped. Then when people worship them they are no longer the same, they become like the devil, wicked. Their countenance changes, they become dark and slippery in their ways. They are willing to do anything to continue on...... even sell their own souls to the Satan.

Then when they least expect it - they die and they find themselves in hell just as Satan shall one day be bound with a chain and cast into the lake of fire.

As one Pastor said, When Satan was filled with pride, he self-destructed. Pride is a terrible thing, it changed an angel into a devil. And if pride can do that to Lucifer, what can it do to us?

That wasn't a concept that petitioned G-d to kill Job's children in a single day, to afflict his body, to destroy all he owned. No, that was Satan and he is still the enemy, he is our adversary now and he is roaming about seeking whom he may devour. We need to be vigilant and know our enemy, his strategies and the Word of God given us to defeat him and put him under our feet.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Christianity is about how humans are saved legitimately.

God is incompatible with sin. He however would like to build an eternity to live with humans with freewill. Law is designed to reflect the incompatibility for those with freewill to obey in order to live with God in such an eternity.

Judgment is to qualify by Law who shall enter Heaven to live with God. Somehow Adam broke it and was put outside God's realm. Humans ever since are no longer inside God's realm. Instead we are in a realm where Satan is said to be the god of this world. Satan has the ability to deceive the world. When put in such a realm, no humans can keep this set of Law in full. In front of this absolute set of Law, no one is righteous, everyone is dead without exception.

In an absolute sense, no humans after Adam can ever pass the Judgment of God's Law to enter the gate of Heaven.

God however provides a solution for His Elect to be legitimately brought to Heaven. The solution is Jesus Christ. With Jesus Christ's once and for all sacrifice, it makes possible for God to grant a covenant to humans for them to be savable at all.

A covenant basically says, "since you humans cannot keep God's Law in full, you are give a chosen set of Law (such as Mosaic Law in a covenant granted to the Jews) which you can keep to a standard God specifies such that you will be save by God's Grace through Jesus Christ."

However as time goes by, even this chosen set of Law will put everyone to death, not even the righteous (people of God's Elect) can keep this chosen set of Law. Then God will upgrade the covenant with a newer one which will suppress the effect of Law while increasing the Grace in order for the righteous to be separated from the wicked.

This is done through successive covenants till the His Grace has been increased to 100%. It becomes the last and final and permanent covenant which is called the New Covenant (brought us by Jesus Himself). The chosen set of Law in a covenant disappeared, all we have is God's Grace through Jesus Christ. We only need faith in Christ/God to be saved.

Judaism does not believe in the devil, but do believe in Satan (who more properly should be called "the Satan"). As this demonstrates, the Jewish view of Satan is very different than the Christian one. Here's a summary of the Jewish view; you can also find information at Alyza (Gretchen) Shapiro's web site at Geocities has shut down

The word satan means "challenger", "difficulty", or "distraction" (note that it is not a proper name). With the leading ha- to make haSatan, it refers to /the/ challenger. This describes Satan as the angel who is the embodiment of man's challenges. HaSatan works for God. His job is to make choosing good over evil enough of a challenge so that it can be a meaningful choice. In other words, haSatan is an angel whose mission it is to add difficulty, challenges, and growth experiences to life. Contrast this to Christianity, which sees Satan as God's opponent. In Jewish thought, the idea that there exists anything capable of setting itself up as God's opponent would be considered overly polytheistic—you are setting up the devil to be a god or demigod.

my sense of the jewish sense of SATAN----is not a conscious being---the word is a kind of personification of a force of nature----
a negative force on the actions and fortunes----specifically, on PEOPLE. In jewish thought G-d can create humanoids that represent natural forces for some purposes of His own.. -----of course---getting down---and further down----and down down down
in astrophysics-------all of the universe is insubstantial------VIBRATIONS (I don't really understand any of this stuff)

the word is a kind of personification of a force of nature----

Agreed, the point is satan isn't a separate entity as the christians see it in their polytheistic religion . If Hashem is one and All, how can there anything be out side

First of all, it isn't polytheistic. It is 1 x 1 x 1 =1 - Guno - second, your theory that Satan is not separated from G-d is not biblical as G-d cast him out after his rebellion. Satan does not work for G-d. He works against G-d and the enemy of G-d even as he is our enemy. While all things work together for good for those who are called according to the purposes of G-d this is not true for those who are not covered by the Blood of Christ and sealed for redemption. There are people perishing every day because of the wiles of the Devil, Guno. Do you believe this is the will of G-d? To see His people perish for lack of knowledge? For rejecting His Word? For rejecting His Only Begotten Son? For rejecting His call to repentance? What does 2 Chronicles 7:14 mean to you?

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

2 Chronicles 7:14 King James Version (KJV)
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

King James Version (KJV)

 

[irosie91]

Christianity is about how humans are saved legitimately.

God is incompatible with sin. He however would like to build an eternity to live with humans with freewill. Law is designed to reflect the incompatibility for those with freewill to obey in order to live with God in such an eternity.

Judgment is to qualify by Law who shall enter Heaven to live with God. Somehow Adam broke it and was put outside God's realm. Humans ever since are no longer inside God's realm. Instead we are in a realm where Satan is said to be the god of this world. Satan has the ability to deceive the world. When put in such a realm, no humans can keep this set of Law in full. In front of this absolute set of Law, no one is righteous, everyone is dead without exception.

In an absolute sense, no humans after Adam can ever pass the Judgment of God's Law to enter the gate of Heaven.

God however provides a solution for His Elect to be legitimately brought to Heaven. The solution is Jesus Christ. With Jesus Christ's once and for all sacrifice, it makes possible for God to grant a covenant to humans for them to be savable at all.

A covenant basically says, "since you humans cannot keep God's Law in full, you are give a chosen set of Law (such as Mosaic Law in a covenant granted to the Jews) which you can keep to a standard God specifies such that you will be save by God's Grace through Jesus Christ."

However as time goes by, even this chosen set of Law will put everyone to death, not even the righteous (people of God's Elect) can keep this chosen set of Law. Then God will upgrade the covenant with a newer one which will suppress the effect of Law while increasing the Grace in order for the righteous to be separated from the wicked.

This is done through successive covenants till the His Grace has been increased to 100%. It becomes the last and final and permanent covenant which is called the New Covenant (brought us by Jesus Himself). The chosen set of Law in a covenant disappeared, all we have is God's Grace through Jesus Christ. We only need faith in Christ/God to be saved.

Judaism does not believe in the devil, but do believe in Satan (who more properly should be called "the Satan"). As this demonstrates, the Jewish view of Satan is very different than the Christian one. Here's a summary of the Jewish view; you can also find information at Alyza (Gretchen) Shapiro's web site at Geocities has shut down

The word satan means "challenger", "difficulty", or "distraction" (note that it is not a proper name). With the leading ha- to make haSatan, it refers to /the/ challenger. This describes Satan as the angel who is the embodiment of man's challenges. HaSatan works for God. His job is to make choosing good over evil enough of a challenge so that it can be a meaningful choice. In other words, haSatan is an angel whose mission it is to add difficulty, challenges, and growth experiences to life. Contrast this to Christianity, which sees Satan as God's opponent. In Jewish thought, the idea that there exists anything capable of setting itself up as God's opponent would be considered overly polytheistic—you are setting up the devil to be a god or demigod.

my sense of the jewish sense of SATAN----is not a conscious being---the word is a kind of personification of a force of nature----
a negative force on the actions and fortunes----specifically, on PEOPLE. In jewish thought G-d can create humanoids that represent natural forces for some purposes of His own.. -----of course---getting down---and further down----and down down down
in astrophysics-------all of the universe is insubstantial------VIBRATIONS (I don't really understand any of this stuff)

the word is a kind of personification of a force of nature----

Agreed, the point is satan isn't a separate entity as the christians see it in their polytheistic religion . If Hashem is one and All, how can there anything be out side

Christians have another problem----another person called "the holy ghost" (in English) ----it is---I believe---a kind of weird translation
of "shechinah" I have no idea how she is conceptualized----
the artistic renditions of SATAN----are kinda exciting----anyone know of any artistic conceptualizations of ----miss ghost, the holy???

The Holy Ghost also called the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of G-d who was with Samson, Gideon, the same Spirit of G-d in Psalm 51 verse 11 David prayed, Cast me not away from thy presence, and take not thy Holy Spirit from me. The Spirit of G-d is not a "she", Rosie..the Spirit of G-d is the power of G-d as it is written, Not by might, not by power but by My Spirit says the LORD. Without the Spirit of G-d drawing men to G-d they could not come - there would be no possibility of salvation. Jesus told the people that all other sin could be forgiven but blasphemy against the Holy Spirit would not be forgiven.

The Shekinah glory you mentioned is a golden mist like cloud - that illuminates a room - when the presence of the LORD shows up mightily it can be seen if G-d opens the persons eyes to see it. It is a most glorious sight. I've seen it before. It hangs in the air like a cloud only it is not white - it is a golden color.

Jeremiah-----I studied Hebrew as a language-----a little bit. The word SHECHINAH is a "feminine" It means ----in Hebrew----something like "the presence of G-d" As a feminine word-----it is called "she" in Hebrew. I was a bit fascinated by Hebrew-----the gender of words is actually important in understanding the meaning of the scriptural writings. SHECHINAH is----a FEMININE in fact, so is ELOHIM. In reading the stuff it become obvious that "god" and his "presence" etc-------has no actual sex. In English we call
"GOD" "he" but not in Hebrew. The problem that this issue creates for Christian theology is the concept of "GOD, THE FATHER, GOD THE SON, AND GOD THE "HOLY GHOST"-----gender wise it makes no sense-----in Hebrew----"G-D" has no actual gender In the trinity model it seems as if the whole group is a bunch of boys. I had no idea until I did bit of Hebrew -------as a teen

 

[Votto]

So this Catholic priest and rabbi were walking down the street and observed some young boys playing on the playgroud when the Catholic priest looked up and asked, "Be honest, don't you just want to screw those boys?" To which the rabbi said, "Sure, but out of what?"

 

[irosie91]

So this Catholic priest and rabbi were walking down the street and observed some young boys playing on the playgroud when the Catholic priest looked up and asked, "Be honest, don't you just want to screw those boys?" To which the rabbi said, "Sure, but out of what?"

best laugh of the day-----reminds me of the old time response to
"JESUS SAVES"---------Talmudic response----MOSES INVESTS

 

[HaShev]

Lucifer in Ezekiel 28 can only be Jesus, nobody was ever rediculously called perfect and a god nor came as first fallen Messiah.

Ezekiel 28:8 They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of [them that are] slain in the midst of the ‘seas’ (i.e.Rome). =Jesus 1 peter 3:19, Acts 2:27

Eze 28:9 Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I [am] God? but thou [shalt be] a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee. =Jesus
(John 8:57, 10:25-36, Psalm 82:1-8)
Later he rose from the Pit declared as God fulfilling the AntiChrist warnings.

Ezekiel 28:2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart [is] lifted up, and thou hast said, I [am] a God, I sit [in] the seat of God, in the midst of the seas(Rome); yet thou [art] a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God (this is like how the Popes claim to be viceroy and gods in Rome, set up as imposters of the Jerusalem Temple and throne and TRUE Authority)

Ezekiel 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the *king of Tyrus*(Tyrus meaning Rock, Jesus was the King of the Rock (the Church) and popular in TYRE according to the NT as in deemed a Prince of Tyre), and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
(similar- Isaiah 44 talks about the carpenter making an idol of a beautiful man (sinless-whitewashed image)and placing it on walls in homes and bowing to it.)
Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone [was] thy covering,
(The image of his man was formed from borrowed mythology of Mithra which came out of ancient persia thus literally been in the garden of eden describing the region in ancient Persia.)

Ezekiel 28:14 Thou [art] the anointed (christ) cherub (guardian=nazarene) that covereth; and I have set thee [so]: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

28:15 Thou [wast] perfect(sinless) in thy ways from the day that thou wast created(his image/icon was created with this intention), till iniquity was found in thee(till the information age exposed what the preachers avoided or whitewashed over).

No other prophet was ever deemed perfect, nor called christ (anointed) Cherub(nazarei) therefore nobody but Jesus fulfills lucifer.
Coming first as the first and fallen messiah should make it obvious enough as Lucifer comes first and is overturned by the Shiloh, (one who's right it is.) If jesus was Messiah therr would be no Shiloh.

 

[irosie91]

Shev dear------no doubt Ezekiel had great INSIGHT into the kind of stuff
going on in the house of Israel that WOULD lead to false messiahs----but
don't make him a magician with a crystal ball-----it hurts my little feelings

 

[Votto]

Lucifer in Ezekiel 28 can only be Jesus, nobody was ever rediculously called perfect and a god nor came as first fallen Messiah.

.

Yes my child, get the word out.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

You are twisting Scripture once again, HaShev. Ezekiel 28 is describing Lucifer - Son of the Morning - not Jesus Christ who is the root and offspring of David and the bright and morning Star. Can Satan cast out Satan? No. A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. You have made the same accusations the Pharisees before you made - that of calling Jesus Christ and His miracles of Beelzebub. Do you know why the religious Pharisees accused Jesus of being of Beelzebub? They envied him and did not want the people to follow Him. They did not realize that what they had accused Jesus Christ of was in fact what they were guilty of. Like you, they were of their father the devil. I'm not telling you that to insult you, HaShev. But your works are of the devil because you are a child of the devil. You must be born again. As for the Pharisees who did the same thing you are doing on this board today? See for yourself:

Matthew 12 King James Version (KJV)

12 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat.

2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.

3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;

4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?

5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.

7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

9 And when he was departed thence, he went into their synagogue:

10 And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.

11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?

12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

13 Then saith he to the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it forth; and it was restored whole, like as the other.

14 Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him.

15 But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all;

16 And charged them that they should not make him known:

17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,

18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

19 He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets.

20 A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.

21 And in his name shall the Gentiles trust.

22 Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw.

23 And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?

24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.

25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:

26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.

28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.

39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.

43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.

44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.

45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.

47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.

48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?

49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

King James Version (KJV)

 

[HaShev]

You just denied what the OT clearly states,denied what Jesus himself admited being.
You also denied your own standard used to place him as thst first failed messiah, that would be called check mate, because you constantly deny your own arguments in claiming him messiah.

Another example of refuting your own idol:
Jeremiah disagrees with Jesus:

Aug 22, 2014
Jeremiah quoted:
the tradition is to say "God Bless you". Because when someone sneezes their heart momentarily stops beating.

Jesus and his crew thought demons came out their nose when they sneezed.
snopes.com Etymology of Bless You

 

[HaShev]

You did it again;
quote: 8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath
day[Sheva Day]
*-rememberance of the name on the seventh(Sheva) day.

Just like when you used:
Jeremiah quote:
“Our *Redeemer* (*HaShev* in Hebrew)
– the Lord of hosts is his
name – is the Holy One of Israel.”
– Isaiah 47:4 ESV

“Our HaShev– the Lord of hosts is his
name – is the Holy One of Israel.”
– Isaiah 47:4 ESV

Thanks Jeremiah.
We keep the Sheva Day while
you keep the Sun's day (Baal).

 

[irosie91]

for completion----I have something to say-----sorta-----I do not trust the
book of MATHEW as being reliable history----I believe Mathew put together parables. He did a good job on parables---. The cornfield story does not even seem reasonable---of course that would have been grains of wheat or barley they were eating -----were they supposed to be ON THE RUN and starving? The david eating the
"showbread" analogy does not make sense----he was on the run
and starving. Some Pharisees pop out of their houses and find
desperate starving people eating grains off the stem ------and do not
even offer them something? The story is missing something

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

You did it again;
quote: 8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath
day[Sheva Day]
*-rememberance of the name on the seventh(Sheva) day.

Just like when you used:
Jeremiah quote:
“Our *Redeemer* (*HaShev* in Hebrew)
– the Lord of hosts is his
name – is the Holy One of Israel.”
– Isaiah 47:4 ESV

“Our HaShev– the Lord of hosts is his
name – is the Holy One of Israel.”
– Isaiah 47:4 ESV

Thanks Jeremiah.
We keep the Sheva Day while
you keep the Sun's day (Baal).

You are still not telling the truth, HaShev. I do not use the ESV translation. I only use Authorized KJV Bible. You can pull up any translation you wish (the other translations add, change and remove words & scriptures) but those who know me here know that I only use KJV not ESV.

The Scriptures do not speak of you, HaShev. You are not the redeemer or the Holy One of Israel. Jesus Christ is.

 

[guno]

Christianity is about how humans are saved legitimately.

God is incompatible with sin. He however would like to build an eternity to live with humans with freewill. Law is designed to reflect the incompatibility for those with freewill to obey in order to live with God in such an eternity.

Judgment is to qualify by Law who shall enter Heaven to live with God. Somehow Adam broke it and was put outside God's realm. Humans ever since are no longer inside God's realm. Instead we are in a realm where Satan is said to be the god of this world. Satan has the ability to deceive the world. When put in such a realm, no humans can keep this set of Law in full. In front of this absolute set of Law, no one is righteous, everyone is dead without exception.

In an absolute sense, no humans after Adam can ever pass the Judgment of God's Law to enter the gate of Heaven.

God however provides a solution for His Elect to be legitimately brought to Heaven. The solution is Jesus Christ. With Jesus Christ's once and for all sacrifice, it makes possible for God to grant a covenant to humans for them to be savable at all.

A covenant basically says, "since you humans cannot keep God's Law in full, you are give a chosen set of Law (such as Mosaic Law in a covenant granted to the Jews) which you can keep to a standard God specifies such that you will be save by God's Grace through Jesus Christ."

However as time goes by, even this chosen set of Law will put everyone to death, not even the righteous (people of God's Elect) can keep this chosen set of Law. Then God will upgrade the covenant with a newer one which will suppress the effect of Law while increasing the Grace in order for the righteous to be separated from the wicked.

This is done through successive covenants till the His Grace has been increased to 100%. It becomes the last and final and permanent covenant which is called the New Covenant (brought us by Jesus Himself). The chosen set of Law in a covenant disappeared, all we have is God's Grace through Jesus Christ. We only need faith in Christ/God to be saved.

Judaism does not believe in the devil, but do believe in Satan (who more properly should be called "the Satan"). As this demonstrates, the Jewish view of Satan is very different than the Christian one. Here's a summary of the Jewish view; you can also find information at Alyza (Gretchen) Shapiro's web site at Geocities has shut down

The word satan means "challenger", "difficulty", or "distraction" (note that it is not a proper name). With the leading ha- to make haSatan, it refers to /the/ challenger. This describes Satan as the angel who is the embodiment of man's challenges. HaSatan works for God. His job is to make choosing good over evil enough of a challenge so that it can be a meaningful choice. In other words, haSatan is an angel whose mission it is to add difficulty, challenges, and growth experiences to life. Contrast this to Christianity, which sees Satan as God's opponent. In Jewish thought, the idea that there exists anything capable of setting itself up as God's opponent would be considered overly polytheistic—you are setting up the devil to be a god or demigod.

my sense of the jewish sense of SATAN----is not a conscious being---the word is a kind of personification of a force of nature----
a negative force on the actions and fortunes----specifically, on PEOPLE. In jewish thought G-d can create humanoids that represent natural forces for some purposes of His own.. -----of course---getting down---and further down----and down down down
in astrophysics-------all of the universe is insubstantial------VIBRATIONS (I don't really understand any of this stuff)

the word is a kind of personification of a force of nature----

Agreed, the point is satan isn't a separate entity as the christians see it in their polytheistic religion . If Hashem is one and All, how can there anything be out side

First of all, it isn't polytheistic. It is 1 x 1 x 1 =1 - Guno - second, your theory that Satan is not separated from G-d is not biblical as G-d cast him out after his rebellion. Satan does not work for G-d. He works against G-d and the enemy of G-d even as he is our enemy. While all things work together for good for those who are called according to the purposes of G-d this is not true for those who are not covered by the Blood of Christ and sealed for redemption. There are people perishing every day because of the wiles of the Devil, Guno. Do you believe this is the will of G-d? To see His people perish for lack of knowledge? For rejecting His Word? For rejecting His Only Begotten Son? For rejecting His call to repentance? What does 2 Chronicles 7:14 mean to you?

Your god is a triune god hence polytheistic

 

[shimon]

Jeremiah tells a bald faced lie again...jesus redeemed noone... He fell to the pit and failed in every catagory accept one he has the most gulliable followers...

 

[HaShev]

And that's what Perdition means: to fall to the pit Acts 2:27 1 Peter 3:19 and Apostles creed Jesus fell to the pit by the hands of the seas (Rome) FOR CLAIMING HIMSELF A GOD, IT DOESN'T GET ANY CLEARER THEN THAT EXCEPT FOR THE FACT jESUS CAME FIRST AND THAT fIRST MESSIAH IS THE FALSE ONE.

jEREMIAH QUOTE: I only use Authorized KJV Bible
You don't read the Hebrew Bible using the reinvented one by the very same people you claim are the adversarys/ Satanists.
I notice you never use the Tanakh for the OT which has lead you to some extremely fallacious comments and claims through your use of satanic texts.
100% no other profit can be called the son of perdition, cause none claimed to be a god, none claimed to fall to hell, none claimed perfect, none walked the garden of Eden, none called themselves
anointed(Christ) cherub(nazarene)-Ezekiel 28:14-15
Your denial of this 100% fact is proof you are the children of lies, lying to protect the lies of the father of all lies, the children of darkness, the true Satanists of this world who killed over 50 Million and had thousands of wars over your stupidity and lies.
=Pure evil.