The Biggest Study Yet of Obamacare Indicates Insurance Will Be Cheaper Than Expected

[SFC Ollie]

Facts are that Obamacare is one overblown piece of legislation that the Democrats had to bribe their own to get it passed...

"We have to pass it to know whats in it"

And yet we hear how great it must be.... How many thousands of pages of regulations on top of 20,000 pages of legislation?

No way in hell you can convince me that this is good for anyone. There is no one person who has even read it all let alone understand it all...

How many times have they moved the goals posts?

How many exemptions have they already had to give?

How many young Democrats are going to be pissed when they find out that even though they are superman and never get sick they are going to start paying for everyone else anyway?

Again, with the goal posts being moved, you can't tell me that Obamacare is working...It's not...

 

[Old Rocks]

I, too, am very disappointed with lack of response.

This is not an R or D issue, it is a PEOPLE issue.

I would so much like to jump on the moderate, 'forget politics, let's just get this done' bandwagon, but I can't. The problem of rising health care costs and how Obama is attempting to solve that problem is such an excellent example of the fundamental differences between liberals and conservatives that it really is about 'R' and 'D'. The only commonality between the parties and really all of us is we really do all want the same thing; less expensive health care. The problem is the solutions put in place by the left have absolutely no means of actually accomplishing that.

I have seen nothing put up by the right that even resembles a solution. Just endless rhetoric about how bad the ACA is.

Well, I happen to agree that we can do better. Full Universal Single Payer health care, such as they have in Canada, France, Germany, Japan, and Taiwan, just to name a few. They pay 1/2 to 3/4 per capita what we do for their health care, and their statistics are far better than ours. Longer lives, and much better numbers on infant mortality.

You 'Conservatives' want some respect on this issue? Address it. Otherwise, don't stand in the doorway, don't block off the hall.

 

[KissMy]

The rate of rise in healthcare cost is down. U.S. consumers' health-care costs fell in May for the first time in almost four decades.

In the case of my family & I the rate of rise spiked up double. I personally don't know anyone who's rate went down.

 

[Synthaholic]

oh dear gawd, a liberal jerkoff with nutty liar luddy and the Syniatha...not pretty...now go wash your hands

And for all their jerking off they ignored my question, it is tough for liberals to come up with answers.

I, too, am very disappointed with lack of response.

This is not an R or D issue, it is a PEOPLE issue.

Lack of response to what?

 

[Pop23]

I, too, am very disappointed with lack of response.

This is not an R or D issue, it is a PEOPLE issue.

I would so much like to jump on the moderate, 'forget politics, let's just get this done' bandwagon, but I can't. The problem of rising health care costs and how Obama is attempting to solve that problem is such an excellent example of the fundamental differences between liberals and conservatives that it really is about 'R' and 'D'. The only commonality between the parties and really all of us is we really do all want the same thing; less expensive health care. The problem is the solutions put in place by the left have absolutely no means of actually accomplishing that.

I have seen nothing put up by the right that even resembles a solution. Just endless rhetoric about how bad the ACA is.

Well, I happen to agree that we can do better. Full Universal Single Payer health care, such as they have in Canada, France, Germany, Japan, and Taiwan, just to name a few. They pay 1/2 to 3/4 per capita what we do for their health care, and their statistics are far better than ours. Longer lives, and much better numbers on infant mortality.

You 'Conservatives' want some respect on this issue? Address it. Otherwise, don't stand in the doorway, don't block off the hall.

Lets create another crazy law that forces people to do what they don't want to do.

There, does that make it all better?

 

[boedicca]

Facts are that Obamacare is one overblown piece of legislation that the Democrats had to bribe their own to get it passed...

"We have to pass it to know whats in it"

And yet we hear how great it must be.... How many thousands of pages of regulations on top of 20,000 pages of legislation?

No way in hell you can convince me that this is good for anyone. There is no one person who has even read it all let alone understand it all...

How many times have they moved the goals posts?

How many exemptions have they already had to give?

How many young Democrats are going to be pissed when they find out that even though they are superman and never get sick they are going to start paying for everyone else anyway?

Again, with the goal posts being moved, you can't tell me that Obamacare is working...It's not...

It's pretty telling when the most vocal proponents of ObamaCare are either exempt from it or stand to profit from it.

 

[Greenbeard]

I would so much like to jump on the moderate, 'forget politics, let's just get this done' bandwagon, but I can't. The problem of rising health care costs and how Obama is attempting to solve that problem is such an excellent example of the fundamental differences between liberals and conservatives that it really is about 'R' and 'D'. The only commonality between the parties and really all of us is we really do all want the same thing; less expensive health care. The problem is the solutions put in place by the left have absolutely no means of actually accomplishing that.

The rate of rise in healthcare cost is down. U.S. consumers' health-care costs fell in May for the first time in almost four decades.

Well, sure there's that.

 

[Bern80]

The rate of rise in healthcare cost is down. U.S. consumers' health-care costs fell in May for the first time in almost four decades.

Of course consumer costs fell. All kinds of them now are being subsidized by the government, but as they see, there's no such thing as a free lunch. And I don't see how they would no whether costs of providers are truly down when the government is now dictating what they will reimburse them for.

To my knowledge there is no Conservative plan except to turn clock back to 2008. Since Obamacare is very likely to be here till at least 2017, any new healthcare plan would have to transitionary plan.

No argument here. That's the frustrating part. I'm afraid the right is too afraid to present a plan that would work and be in the best interests of everybody. Health insurance should be treated more like auto insurance. If it were you would see substantial drop in costs and probably a healthier country overall.

 

[Flopper]

The rate of rise in healthcare cost is down. U.S. consumers' health-care costs fell in May for the first time in almost four decades.

In the case of my family & I the rate of rise spiked up double. I personally don't know anyone who's rate went down.

The facts speak for themselves. Healthcare cost are down. The cost of health insurance is determined by a number of factors that has little to do with the ACA. If your insurance has gone up, it's not the ACA because it does not take effect till Jan 1 for individual policies and a year from now for group insurance.

Medical Costs Register First Decline Since 1970s - Real Time Economics - WSJ

 

[Bern80]

I, too, am very disappointed with lack of response.

This is not an R or D issue, it is a PEOPLE issue.

I would so much like to jump on the moderate, 'forget politics, let's just get this done' bandwagon, but I can't. The problem of rising health care costs and how Obama is attempting to solve that problem is such an excellent example of the fundamental differences between liberals and conservatives that it really is about 'R' and 'D'. The only commonality between the parties and really all of us is we really do all want the same thing; less expensive health care. The problem is the solutions put in place by the left have absolutely no means of actually accomplishing that.

I have seen nothing put up by the right that even resembles a solution. Just endless rhetoric about how bad the ACA is.

Well, I happen to agree that we can do better. Full Universal Single Payer health care, such as they have in Canada, France, Germany, Japan, and Taiwan, just to name a few. They pay 1/2 to 3/4 per capita what we do for their health care, and their statistics are far better than ours. Longer lives, and much better numbers on infant mortality.

You 'Conservatives' want some respect on this issue? Address it. Otherwise, don't stand in the doorway, don't block off the hall.

As I've said before I would personally treat health insurance more like auto insurance. As to your countries with single payer, you're aware that the health care spending in most of those countries is billions of dollars in debt right? You can not fix the problem of lower costs and healthier people by extricating individuals from the cost of their own health care. That's what single payer does and why it is unsustainable.

 

[Flopper]

The rate of rise in healthcare cost is down. U.S. consumers' health-care costs fell in May for the first time in almost four decades.

Of course consumer costs fell. All kinds of them now are being subsidized by the government, but as they see, there's no such thing as a free lunch. And I don't see how they would no whether costs of providers are truly down when the government is now dictating what they will reimburse them for.

To my knowledge there is no Conservative plan except to turn clock back to 2008. Since Obamacare is very likely to be here till at least 2017, any new healthcare plan would have to transitionary plan.

No argument here. That's the frustrating part. I'm afraid the right is too afraid to present a plan that would work and be in the best interests of everybody. Health insurance should be treated more like auto insurance. If it were you would see substantial drop in costs and probably a healthier country overall.

No, the cost reported for healthcare is from the CPI. There are a number reasons why healthcare costs are stabilizing. Some have to do with Obamacare but mostly it's the increased efficiency of healthcare delivery and the lingering effects of the recession.

Conservatives in congress can not present a plan because such a plan would have to contain a number features in the current law which are not acceptable to the Right. For example, such a plan would have to address the millions of addition people that will get coverage through the Medicaid Expansion which is very unpopular with the Right. Since there is almost no chance of changing Obamacare till 2017, a policy of just complaining abou it fits the needs of the GOP much better than proposing anything.

 

[Flopper]

I would so much like to jump on the moderate, 'forget politics, let's just get this done' bandwagon, but I can't. The problem of rising health care costs and how Obama is attempting to solve that problem is such an excellent example of the fundamental differences between liberals and conservatives that it really is about 'R' and 'D'. The only commonality between the parties and really all of us is we really do all want the same thing; less expensive health care. The problem is the solutions put in place by the left have absolutely no means of actually accomplishing that.

I have seen nothing put up by the right that even resembles a solution. Just endless rhetoric about how bad the ACA is.

Well, I happen to agree that we can do better. Full Universal Single Payer health care, such as they have in Canada, France, Germany, Japan, and Taiwan, just to name a few. They pay 1/2 to 3/4 per capita what we do for their health care, and their statistics are far better than ours. Longer lives, and much better numbers on infant mortality.

You 'Conservatives' want some respect on this issue? Address it. Otherwise, don't stand in the doorway, don't block off the hall.

As I've said before I would personally treat health insurance more like auto insurance. As to your countries with single payer, you're aware that the health care spending in most of those countries is billions of dollars in debt right? You can not fix the problem of lower costs and healthier people by extricating individuals from the cost of their own health care. That's what single payer does and why it is unsustainable.

No. Of the countries that have single payer systems, there is not a single one that has a debt to gdp ratio higher that the US.

Government Debt To GDP - Countries - List
List of Countries with Universal Healthcare | True Cost - Analyzing our economy, government policy, and society through the lens of cost-benefit

 

[Flopper]

Dang it!

You made coffee go up my nose!

oh dear gawd, a liberal jerkoff with nutty liar luddy and the Syniatha...not pretty...now go wash your hands

And for all their jerking off they ignored my question, it is tough for liberals to come up with answers.

Synthaholic answered your question in his first post.

 

[Papageorgio]

oh dear gawd, a liberal jerkoff with nutty liar luddy and the Syniatha...not pretty...now go wash your hands

And for all their jerking off they ignored my question, it is tough for liberals to come up with answers.

Synthaholic answered your question in his first post.

No he did not, nice try.

 

[Greenbeard]

Here's their bottom line:

While premiums will vary significantly across the country, they are generally lower than expected. For example, we estimate that the latest projections from the Congressional Budget Office imply that the premium for a 40-year-old in the second lowest cost silver plan would average $320 per month nationally.

Fifteen of the eighteen rating areas we examined have premiums below this level, suggesting that the cost of coverage for consumers and the federal budgetary cost for tax credits will be lower than anticipated.​

*snip*

Cheaper than expected? What was expected? You notice they don't tell you that. In my state, they still can't tell you what the rate will be.

"Expected" here refers to what the CBO thought plans would cost when they calculated how much the law would cost before it passed. Premiums are turning out to be lower than that, meaning they overestimated how much the law would cost.

Again, with the goal posts being moved, you can't tell me that Obamacare is working...It's not...

It's not rocket science. Slowing health care cost growth (check!), improving health care quality (check!), and better access and insurance coverage (about to be a check!) are what the law is supposed to achieve and thus far it's looking pretty good.

Of course consumer costs fell. All kinds of them now are being subsidized by the government, but as they see, there's no such thing as a free lunch. And I don't see how they would no whether costs of providers are truly down when the government is now dictating what they will reimburse them for.

Federal health spending is also moderating, to the point that Medicare's 2010-2020 price tag dropped over a trillion dollars over the last few years. In the year 2020 alone, Medicare and Medicaid are each expected to cost 15% less than they would have under pre-reform trends (last year they turned out be 5% cheaper than was expected just a few years ago).

You have heard health care spending growth, health care price inflation, and per beneficiary Medicare spending growth have fallen to historic lows, right?

 

[Bern80]

Conservatives in congress can not present a plan because such a plan would have to contain a number features in the current law which are not acceptable to the Right. For example, such a plan would have to address the millions of addition people that will get coverage through the Medicaid Expansion which is very unpopular with the Right. Since there is almost no chance of changing Obamacare till 2017, a policy of just complaining abou it fits the needs of the GOP much better than proposing anything.

There are all kinds of problems present with the current system that are very obvious. One is the cost of coverage going up for young and healthy individuals. This is occurring because of the part of Obamacare that says you can't charge people higher rates for pre-existing conditions. That's exactly the opposite of how insurance is supposed to work. If you are of lower risk you're supposed to be get to pay a lower rate. That's the way it works in auto and homeowner's insurance. I also, don't know how people think cost of premiums will go down when Obamacare places requirements on insurance companies about what they must cover instead of individuals choosing and paying for the coverage they want.

Millions more people being covered is not unpopular with the right. That has nothing to do with there opposition to Obamacare. And as I've said before if you want a solution that works you have to move away from the idea that the goal is to provide insurance coverage to as many people as possible. That's the biggest issue with Obamacare is that it is a third party insurance solution. 'Just get people covered by insurance and that will solve everything', seems to be the mantra. But I don't see that as being the goal. The goal i though was to get health care to cost less. Just getting everyone covered with insurance is not a mechanism by which the cost of an MRI is going to go down.

 

[Bern80]

I have seen nothing put up by the right that even resembles a solution. Just endless rhetoric about how bad the ACA is.

Well, I happen to agree that we can do better. Full Universal Single Payer health care, such as they have in Canada, France, Germany, Japan, and Taiwan, just to name a few. They pay 1/2 to 3/4 per capita what we do for their health care, and their statistics are far better than ours. Longer lives, and much better numbers on infant mortality.

You 'Conservatives' want some respect on this issue? Address it. Otherwise, don't stand in the doorway, don't block off the hall.

As I've said before I would personally treat health insurance more like auto insurance. As to your countries with single payer, you're aware that the health care spending in most of those countries is billions of dollars in debt right? You can not fix the problem of lower costs and healthier people by extricating individuals from the cost of their own health care. That's what single payer does and why it is unsustainable.

No. Of the countries that have single payer systems, there is not a single one that has a debt to gdp ratio higher that the US.

Government Debt To GDP - Countries - List
List of Countries with Universal Healthcare | True Cost - Analyzing our economy, government policy, and society through the lens of cost-benefit

Yes, there is. France's healthcare system is billions of dollars in debt. And of course we know about Canada's issues where it takes an eternity to treated for certain medical problems. Here is an excellent, objective article about your beloved French medical system. You will find it praises many aspect of their system, but also points out it's faults and yes one of them is the public segment being deeply in debt as well as the atrocious pay of their physicians.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/njmagazine/wn_20090718_3933.php

 

[eagle1462010]

http://kaiserfamilyfoundation.files...remiums-and-participation-in-marketplaces.pdf

He He Ha ha ha ha ha

LMAO......................

Nice try.....................

The lowest rates will be....................................CHERRY PICKING DATA FROM THE REPORT...........

Ummmmm Shouldn't the lowest rates have BEEN FREE.................or have you forgotten that propoganda as well.....................................

 

[eagle1462010]

page 7........................

Look at the chart.

Now cherry pick the 2.0% premium cap.................

And tell the others not in that group of FPL to cheer...............

Ummmmmmmm.............Sorry, it's just not happening with me.

 

[Flopper]

As I've said before I would personally treat health insurance more like auto insurance. As to your countries with single payer, you're aware that the health care spending in most of those countries is billions of dollars in debt right? You can not fix the problem of lower costs and healthier people by extricating individuals from the cost of their own health care. That's what single payer does and why it is unsustainable.

No. Of the countries that have single payer systems, there is not a single one that has a debt to gdp ratio higher that the US.

Government Debt To GDP - Countries - List
List of Countries with Universal Healthcare | True Cost - Analyzing our economy, government policy, and society through the lens of cost-benefit

Yes, there is. France's healthcare system is billions of dollars in debt. And of course we know about Canada's issues where it takes an eternity to treated for certain medical problems. Here is an excellent, objective article about your beloved French medical system. You will find it praises many aspect of their system, but also points out it's faults and yes one of them is the public segment being deeply in debt as well as the atrocious pay of their physicians.

French Lessons On Health Care - NationalJournal.com

The French healthcare system is a two tiered system, not single payer and they have a lower debt relative to GDP than the US.

The wait times that Canada might experience are not caused by its being a single-payer system. Canadians have made a conscious decision to hold down costs. One of the ways they do that is by limiting supply, mostly for elective things, which can create wait times. Their outcomes are otherwise comparable to ours.

The US single payer system, Medicare does not limit supply and thus does not experience the wait times seen in Canada. We could do the same thing Canada does in the US and see similar cost savings but we choose not to.