Zone1 The Best Evidence For The Resurrection

[Bad Bob]

Can you show us something that says Jesus died from anything other than crucifixion? You don't disagree with me; you disagree with the story.

Argue with your Bible, not with me.

Yes, I'm disagreeing with the perceptions of those at the time.

You're free to run from a logical argument.

 

[Hypatia415]

Then explain the ripples such as the apostles dying for their beliefs?

Where is the attested historical evidence that any of the disciples/apostles died for their beliefs?

 

[Hypatia415]

Disagreed since the apostles died because they believed they witnessed a miracle......annnnd everyone is still talking about it 2000 years later.

Point of information, the belief in miracles and magical practises was commonplace throughout the ancient world. It was part of the contemporary context. . The use of exorcism to remove evil spirits, imprecations and invocations involving deities, divination, omens, and protective amulets, all under-laid the fabric of society.

 

[GLASNOST]

..... words are put into the mouth of Jesus by much later texts .

That's all the bible is. Nothing more than that.

 

[Bad Bob]

Where is the attested historical evidence that any of the disciples/apostles died for their beliefs?

Scroll up. I've posted a few links where some have been documented while others are less documented.

Even the history of your heroine Hypatia is sketchy due to the tech of the times.

The fact you believe all Christianity is a complete fabrication defies logic. Hypatia would be disappointed.

 

[GLASNOST]

The fact you believe all Christianity is a complete fabrication defies logic. Hypatia would be disappointed.

Of course it's all complete fabrication. "Once upon a time virgins gave birth to gods, men could fly, rice turned into maggots, horse hair turned into snakes, water could ferment, people could die and wake up again, one god could be three gods but still only one ..... "

 

[Bad Bob]

Point of information, the belief in miracles and magical practises was commonplace throughout the ancient world. It was part of the contemporary context. . The use of exorcism to remove evil spirits, imprecations and invocations involving deities, divination, omens, and protective amulets, all under-laid the fabric of society.

Agreed. Doctors believed bleeding patients was proper medical procedure just a few years ago. Phrenology was commonly accepted in the early 1800s and still practiced by some into the early 1900s.
Some people still believe in magic, ESP, miracles, etc.

None of which proves their validity. It's a matter of perception, not science.

A perception key to this discussion is "raised from the dead". Before embalming, some people have, in fact, been buried alive. These incidents gave rise to "safety coffins".

Since people don't really "rise from the dead" there must be a logical explanation such as a coma.

People used to be buried with bells attached to their coffins in case they woke up.

In the 18th and 19th centuries, fear of being buried alive was widespread. Newspapers and pamphlets — not to mention gothic novels and “penny dreadfuls” — reported cases of mistaken death, and even famous figures took precautions to avoid being buried prematurely. Composer Frédéric Chopin...

historyfacts.com

In the 18th and 19th centuries, fear of being buried alive was widespread. Newspapers and pamphlets — not to mention gothic novels and “penny dreadfuls” — reported cases of mistaken death, and even famous figures took precautions to avoid being buried prematurely. Composer Frédéric Chopin reportedly asked that his body be cut open to ensure he was truly dead, while George Washington had his body watched for two full days before burial.


The concern was not entirely unfounded. Death is a gradual process, and faint pulse, shallow breathing, or illnesses that mimic death could easily fool the untrained observer. Early methods to confirm life included placing a feather by the mouth or using a mirror to detect breath. Later, more inventive techniques emerged, such as brushing invisible silver nitrate messages onto glass above coffins; decomposition gases would reveal the words “I am dead.”


Fear of premature burial also inspired a wave of “safety” innovations. The most famous was Russian Count Michel de Karnice-Karnicki’s 1897 safety coffin, known as Le Karnice. A spring-loaded ball rested over the chest, and any movement released air and light into the coffin, which rang a bell and raised a flag aboveground. A tube allowed a conscious occupant to call for help.

 

[Bad Bob]

Of course it's all complete fabrication. "Once upon a time virgins gave birth to gods, men could fly, rice turned into maggots, horse hair turned into snakes, water could ferment, people could die and wake up again, one god could be three gods but still only one ..... "

All a complete fabrication? Disagreed. Parts, like a virgin birth? Yes. The Star of Bethlehem? Possibly based in fact due to a nova or comet seen about the time of Jesus' presumed birth albeit no Magi.

What was the Christmas Star?

From comets to supernova explosions, discover some of the theories about the Star of Bethlehem

www.rmg.co.uk

 

[Hypatia415]

Scroll up. I've posted a few links where some have been documented while others are less documented.

Even the history of your heroine Hypatia is sketchy due to the tech of the times.

The fact you believe all Christianity is a complete fabrication defies logic. Hypatia would be disappointed.

If that is a reference to your post #264 all you are citing is tradition.

I do not consider Christianity to be a complete fabrication. It was a new cult that was spread by Paul and virtually nothing to do with an itinerant peasant Galilean Jewish preacher and exorcist.

 

[Hafar1014]

Your opinions are duly noted.

If you recall I referred to the region that "we now call Palestine".

However, if we want to be pedantic. Palestine | History, People, Conflict, & Religion | Britannica

The word Palestine came into English from Greek (via Latin). The earliest incontrovertible use of the term is attested in Herodotus’s History. The Greek word may have been derived directly or indirectly from more-local sources: earlier Egyptian and Assyrian inscriptions refer to a people called some variant of Peleset or Palastu, respectively, but whom these terms refer to remains uncertain. The Hebrew Bible later used a similar term, Peleshet, to refer to the Philistines, a people of Aegean origin who settled on the southern coast in the 12th century bce. In the 2nd century ce the name was first used administratively by the Romans in the term Syria Palaestina, designating the southern portion of the province of Syria. In the Byzantine era the name was used for the provinces of Palaestina Prima, Palaestina Secunda, and Palaestina Salutaris (or Tertia). Palaestina Prima was then administered as a jund (military district) by the Arabic name Filasṭīn in the early Islamic era. After the Crusades the name remained in informal use as a geographic designation, but it had no official status until after World War I and the end of rule by the Ottoman Empire, when it was adopted for one of the regions mandated to Great Britain.

Thats Israel

 

[Bad Bob]

If that is a reference to your post #264 all you are citing is tradition.

I do not consider Christianity to be a complete fabrication. It was a new cult that was spread by Paul and virtually nothing to do with an itinerant peasant Galilean Jewish preacher and exorcist.

How does that explain the apostles dying for their beliefs? Cultists later on, sure, but cults have a start and this one started with very ardent believers.

 

[GLASNOST]

The fact you believe all Christianity is a complete fabrication defies logic. Hypatia would be disappointed.

Of course it's all complete fabrication. "Once upon a time virgins gave birth to gods, men could fly, rice turned into maggots, horse hair turned into snakes, water could ferment, people could die and wake up again, one god could be three gods but still only one ..... "

All a complete fabrication?

That's right.

 

[BreezeWood]

Possibly based in fact due to a nova or comet seen about the time of Jesus' presumed birth albeit no Magi.

oh, prey tell ... christian (jew).

the magi were sent by the heavens to prevent the jews from stoning mary to death ... or otherwise - as the initiation of the 1st century events the repudiation of judaism and their false commandments desert dwellers, moses the liar, claim to be heavenly.

 

[Bad Bob]

oh, prey tell ... christian (jew).

the magi were sent by the heavens to prevent the jews from stoning mary to death ... or otherwise - as the initiation of the 1st century events the repudiation of judaism and their false commandments desert dwellers, moses the liar, claim to be heavenly.

Interesting. I've never heard that one and I was raised a Protestant. Is that a Catholic thing? Atheist?