The American Right Wing and South Africa

[Tommy Tainant]

Ive noticed that hardly any of the threads on the Africa board get much response. Disir posts a lot of interesting stuff that doesnt get the reaction it deserves.
But there is one topic that seems to fire up a certain section of the board to full froth. That is the subject of land redistribution.
Ive scratched my head over this. Why is this the only African subject of interest to people on here ?

Is it because most of the tales are made up genocide stories ?
Is it because the supposed victims are white and bad things cant happen to white folks ?
Is there a long suppressed desire to return to the evil age of apartheid ?
Is apartheid worship some kind of comfort to alt righters in a post Jim Crow US ?

It might be all of those things.

But I think the answer may be more complex than that.

It is more about the US than it is about South Africa.

If you question the legitimacy of white ownership of African land then it raises other questions closer to home.
If the Boer cant sieze land at gunpoint then why should anyone else have that right ?

The only good injun is a dead injun ?

It probably gets a lot of notice because of that little thing that happened over in Zimbabwe. Remember that country? It completely collapsed. Do remember they used to export a lot of food to other African nations?

Probably when the whole Land redistribution thing comes up and you can draw a line of comparison between the two countries of South Africa and Zimbabwe.... It might catch the attention of people who are able to think. You think??

So what happens in Mexico will happen in the US because they have a common border ? Gotcha !

 

[Correll]

No, I hold forth the strong possibility of famine, and starving children, as a reason to not drive farmers from their farms.

Since the fact that the white farmers who are being mass murdered, raped and driven from their farms, NOW, not having committed any of the crimes you cite, seems to not matter to you.


And yes, once the whites are all dead, or fled, and a generation passes, I would not hold the next generation responsible for the crimes of their fathers. What part of this is confusing to you?

None of it is confusing.I just find it amusing that you feel that a white land grab is ok but a reversal of that is a big problem.

I don't think your position is teneble.

If ****** had any sense he would sit down and work out a deal. I think Cyril would be up for that.

1. Your conclusion that I support Imperialism is a self serving assumption on your part, that is not supported by anything I have ever said.

2. Mass murder, rape and oppression is a big problem to civilized people. You, however are a marxist, and thus support it. As long as the right people are being mass murdered, raped and oppressed.

3. YOu want those being mass murdered, raped and oppressed to sit down with their oppressors and work out a deal? And would any such deal be honored? And when it was not honored would you hold the government responsible? All those questions are rhetorical. Don't bother answering them. We all know you answers.

Where are these "mass murders" taking place ? Where are the graves and who has been murdered. ?
Its a load of right wing bollox.

This is what Cyril told the FT>

EXCLUSIVE: 'This is no land grab', writes Cyril Ramaphosa


The “land question” goes back more than a century to the 1913 Natives Land Act, which provided legislative form to a process of dispossession that had been under way since colonial times. It confined the country’s African population to slightly more than 10 per cent of the land, reserving the rest for the white minority. These laws alienated the majority of our citizens from their places of birth and burial, stripped them of their assets and deprived them of their livelihoods.

Even now, the dispossession of land continues to determine the prospects of millions of South Africans, and it holds back the country’s economic development. By restricting the ownership of land to a small minority, the apartheid regime ensured that one of the country’s most valuable economic resources would be severely underutilised.

During this year the department of rural development and land reform released results of a land audit to establish land ownership patterns. Among other insights forthcoming from the land audit, it emerged that:

• Individuals, companies and trusts own 90 per cent of land in SA, and the state 10 per cent
• Of this 90%, individuals own 39%, trusts 31%, companies 25% and community-based organisations 4%, with co-ownership at 1%.
• In terms of farms and agricultural holdings, 97% of the total agricultural holdings are owned by 7% of landowners
• Agricultural land ownership by race: 72% of farms and agricultural holdings are owned by whites, 15% by coloured citizens, 5% by Indians, and 4% by Africans

For decades, the country’s assets — its land, its minerals, its human resources, its enterprises — have been owned, controlled and managed in a way that has prevented the extraction of their full value. Our intention is to unlock the economic potential of land. Without the recognition of the property rights of all our people, we will not overcome inequality, and without giving the poor the means to productively farm the land, we will not defeat poverty.

In promoting accelerated land reform, the ruling ANC, recently resolved to propose a constitutional amendment that would make explicit the conditions under which land could justifiably be expropriated without compensation. While the current clause in the constitution dealing with property rights does not necessarily prohibit such a measure, the ANC’s view is that an amendment would provide certainty and clarity.

The proposed amendment would need to reinforce the fundamental principles of the property clause, which, among other things, prohibits the arbitrary deprivation of property and holds that expropriation is possible in the public interest subject to just and equitable compensation. It also says that no provision can impede the process of land reform to redress the results of past racial discrimination.

While a parliamentary committee is at present wrapping up public hearings on this issue and still needs to give consideration to any possible constitutional amendment, there have been several suggestions on when expropriation without compensation may be justified. These include, for instance, unused land, derelict buildings, purely speculative land holdings, or circumstances where occupiers have strong historical rights and title holders do not occupy or use their land, such as labour tenancy, informal settlements and abandoned inner-city buildings.

This is no land grab; nor is it an assault on the private ownership of property. The ANC has been clear that its land reform programme should not undermine future investment in the economy or damage agricultural production and food security. The proposals will not erode property rights, but will instead ensure that the rights of all South Africans, and not just those who currently own land, are strengthened. SA has learnt from the experiences of other countries, both from what has worked and what has not, and will not make the same mistakes that others have made.

The proposal on expropriation without compensation is one element of a broader programme of land reform that seeks to ensure that all citizens can have their land rights recognised, whether they live in communal areas, informal settlements or on commercial farms. It includes the release of well-located urban land for low-cost housing so that the poor can own property and live close to economic opportunities.

For land reform to succeed, it is essential that support is given to beneficiaries of land redistribution through financing, training, market access, irrigation and the provision of seeds, fertiliser and equipment, all of which contribute to the sustainability of emerging agricultural enterprises.

Land reform in SA is a moral, social and economic imperative. By bringing more land into productive use, by giving more South Africans assets and opportunities for sustainable livelihoods, the country is creating conditions for greater, more inclusive and more meaningful growth.

Thats right, they intend to compensate the people who stole their land !!

And it is wider ranging than farmland. It will address inner city land use in an effort to improve housing. This is an absolute necessity for social cohesion in a country where inequality destabilises any kind of progress.

Of course, as a racist, you can only see that black folks will benefit out of this and that cant be right in your world.

They will be wanting the vote next.

Interesting. YOu deny any murders are taking place, and start talking about events over a century ago, and finish with a government promise of payments for land to be confiscated.


You do realize that that is not a very convincing argument that murders are not taking place, do you?

Indeed, it is more an justification of said murders, than any attempt to show that they are not taking place.

The South African farmers themselves statethat murders are at a 20 year low. The whole thing is a made up scare story by right wing loons.

Oh, don't you want to spend some time talking about the justifications for the murders that you claim are not happening first?


Also, link.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Murders of farmers in South Africa at 20-year low, research shows

A reputable source. Lets see the genocide proof ?

 

[Tommy Tainant]

None of it is confusing.I just find it amusing that you feel that a white land grab is ok but a reversal of that is a big problem.

I don't think your position is teneble.

If ****** had any sense he would sit down and work out a deal. I think Cyril would be up for that.

1. Your conclusion that I support Imperialism is a self serving assumption on your part, that is not supported by anything I have ever said.

2. Mass murder, rape and oppression is a big problem to civilized people. You, however are a marxist, and thus support it. As long as the right people are being mass murdered, raped and oppressed.

3. YOu want those being mass murdered, raped and oppressed to sit down with their oppressors and work out a deal? And would any such deal be honored? And when it was not honored would you hold the government responsible? All those questions are rhetorical. Don't bother answering them. We all know you answers.

Where are these "mass murders" taking place ? Where are the graves and who has been murdered. ?
Its a load of right wing bollox.

This is what Cyril told the FT>

EXCLUSIVE: 'This is no land grab', writes Cyril Ramaphosa


The “land question” goes back more than a century to the 1913 Natives Land Act, which provided legislative form to a process of dispossession that had been under way since colonial times. It confined the country’s African population to slightly more than 10 per cent of the land, reserving the rest for the white minority. These laws alienated the majority of our citizens from their places of birth and burial, stripped them of their assets and deprived them of their livelihoods.

Even now, the dispossession of land continues to determine the prospects of millions of South Africans, and it holds back the country’s economic development. By restricting the ownership of land to a small minority, the apartheid regime ensured that one of the country’s most valuable economic resources would be severely underutilised.

During this year the department of rural development and land reform released results of a land audit to establish land ownership patterns. Among other insights forthcoming from the land audit, it emerged that:

• Individuals, companies and trusts own 90 per cent of land in SA, and the state 10 per cent
• Of this 90%, individuals own 39%, trusts 31%, companies 25% and community-based organisations 4%, with co-ownership at 1%.
• In terms of farms and agricultural holdings, 97% of the total agricultural holdings are owned by 7% of landowners
• Agricultural land ownership by race: 72% of farms and agricultural holdings are owned by whites, 15% by coloured citizens, 5% by Indians, and 4% by Africans

For decades, the country’s assets — its land, its minerals, its human resources, its enterprises — have been owned, controlled and managed in a way that has prevented the extraction of their full value. Our intention is to unlock the economic potential of land. Without the recognition of the property rights of all our people, we will not overcome inequality, and without giving the poor the means to productively farm the land, we will not defeat poverty.

In promoting accelerated land reform, the ruling ANC, recently resolved to propose a constitutional amendment that would make explicit the conditions under which land could justifiably be expropriated without compensation. While the current clause in the constitution dealing with property rights does not necessarily prohibit such a measure, the ANC’s view is that an amendment would provide certainty and clarity.

The proposed amendment would need to reinforce the fundamental principles of the property clause, which, among other things, prohibits the arbitrary deprivation of property and holds that expropriation is possible in the public interest subject to just and equitable compensation. It also says that no provision can impede the process of land reform to redress the results of past racial discrimination.

While a parliamentary committee is at present wrapping up public hearings on this issue and still needs to give consideration to any possible constitutional amendment, there have been several suggestions on when expropriation without compensation may be justified. These include, for instance, unused land, derelict buildings, purely speculative land holdings, or circumstances where occupiers have strong historical rights and title holders do not occupy or use their land, such as labour tenancy, informal settlements and abandoned inner-city buildings.

This is no land grab; nor is it an assault on the private ownership of property. The ANC has been clear that its land reform programme should not undermine future investment in the economy or damage agricultural production and food security. The proposals will not erode property rights, but will instead ensure that the rights of all South Africans, and not just those who currently own land, are strengthened. SA has learnt from the experiences of other countries, both from what has worked and what has not, and will not make the same mistakes that others have made.

The proposal on expropriation without compensation is one element of a broader programme of land reform that seeks to ensure that all citizens can have their land rights recognised, whether they live in communal areas, informal settlements or on commercial farms. It includes the release of well-located urban land for low-cost housing so that the poor can own property and live close to economic opportunities.

For land reform to succeed, it is essential that support is given to beneficiaries of land redistribution through financing, training, market access, irrigation and the provision of seeds, fertiliser and equipment, all of which contribute to the sustainability of emerging agricultural enterprises.

Land reform in SA is a moral, social and economic imperative. By bringing more land into productive use, by giving more South Africans assets and opportunities for sustainable livelihoods, the country is creating conditions for greater, more inclusive and more meaningful growth.

Thats right, they intend to compensate the people who stole their land !!

And it is wider ranging than farmland. It will address inner city land use in an effort to improve housing. This is an absolute necessity for social cohesion in a country where inequality destabilises any kind of progress.

Of course, as a racist, you can only see that black folks will benefit out of this and that cant be right in your world.

They will be wanting the vote next.

Interesting. YOu deny any murders are taking place, and start talking about events over a century ago, and finish with a government promise of payments for land to be confiscated.


You do realize that that is not a very convincing argument that murders are not taking place, do you?

Indeed, it is more an justification of said murders, than any attempt to show that they are not taking place.

The South African farmers themselves statethat murders are at a 20 year low. The whole thing is a made up scare story by right wing loons.

Oh, don't you want to spend some time talking about the justifications for the murders that you claim are not happening first?


Also, link.

Why are you happy to repeat shite spouted by neo nazi nutters ? Its not true,its a lie.

 

[Yarddog]

Ive noticed that hardly any of the threads on the Africa board get much response. Disir posts a lot of interesting stuff that doesnt get the reaction it deserves.
But there is one topic that seems to fire up a certain section of the board to full froth. That is the subject of land redistribution.
Ive scratched my head over this. Why is this the only African subject of interest to people on here ?

Is it because most of the tales are made up genocide stories ?
Is it because the supposed victims are white and bad things cant happen to white folks ?
Is there a long suppressed desire to return to the evil age of apartheid ?
Is apartheid worship some kind of comfort to alt righters in a post Jim Crow US ?

It might be all of those things.

But I think the answer may be more complex than that.

It is more about the US than it is about South Africa.

If you question the legitimacy of white ownership of African land then it raises other questions closer to home.
If the Boer cant sieze land at gunpoint then why should anyone else have that right ?

The only good injun is a dead injun ?

It probably gets a lot of notice because of that little thing that happened over in Zimbabwe. Remember that country? It completely collapsed. Do remember they used to export a lot of food to other African nations?

Probably when the whole Land redistribution thing comes up and you can draw a line of comparison between the two countries of South Africa and Zimbabwe.... It might catch the attention of people who are able to think. You think??

So what happens in Mexico will happen in the US because they have a common border ? Gotcha !

You prove my point. Try thinking next time

 

[Correll]

Murders of farmers in South Africa at 20-year low, research shows

A reputable source. Lets see the genocide proof ?

From a link included in your source.


Farm murders at a 20-year low, AgriSA reports


"In response to the report, AfriForum’s deputy CEO, Ernst Roets, told The Citizen the figures stated do not gel with those released by the police, or with AfriForum’s own records of farm attacks.

“AfriForum is in possession of more names of people who were murdered in farm attacks than the total number which has been provided by the police,” he said.

“The number released now also doesn’t correspond with the police’s previous figures. According to the former police commissioner, there were 74 farm murders and 638 attacks in 2016-17.

“According to the new figures, there were 66 murders and 478 farm attacks. That is a significant difference.”

Roets also refers to “dark figures”, which are farm attacks which aren’t reported to police, saying it is impossible to determine how large that number is.

“If we look at the under-reporting of violent crimes, one can deduce that the gap is increasing.”

Roets says AfriForum believes farm murders to be an extremely complex crime and that it wouldn’t be possible to reduce the motives to simply one or two reasons.

He does, however, believe political climate and utterances are contributing factors."

 

[Correll]

1. Your conclusion that I support Imperialism is a self serving assumption on your part, that is not supported by anything I have ever said.

2. Mass murder, rape and oppression is a big problem to civilized people. You, however are a marxist, and thus support it. As long as the right people are being mass murdered, raped and oppressed.

3. YOu want those being mass murdered, raped and oppressed to sit down with their oppressors and work out a deal? And would any such deal be honored? And when it was not honored would you hold the government responsible? All those questions are rhetorical. Don't bother answering them. We all know you answers.

Where are these "mass murders" taking place ? Where are the graves and who has been murdered. ?
Its a load of right wing bollox.

This is what Cyril told the FT>

EXCLUSIVE: 'This is no land grab', writes Cyril Ramaphosa


The “land question” goes back more than a century to the 1913 Natives Land Act, which provided legislative form to a process of dispossession that had been under way since colonial times. It confined the country’s African population to slightly more than 10 per cent of the land, reserving the rest for the white minority. These laws alienated the majority of our citizens from their places of birth and burial, stripped them of their assets and deprived them of their livelihoods.

Even now, the dispossession of land continues to determine the prospects of millions of South Africans, and it holds back the country’s economic development. By restricting the ownership of land to a small minority, the apartheid regime ensured that one of the country’s most valuable economic resources would be severely underutilised.

During this year the department of rural development and land reform released results of a land audit to establish land ownership patterns. Among other insights forthcoming from the land audit, it emerged that:

• Individuals, companies and trusts own 90 per cent of land in SA, and the state 10 per cent
• Of this 90%, individuals own 39%, trusts 31%, companies 25% and community-based organisations 4%, with co-ownership at 1%.
• In terms of farms and agricultural holdings, 97% of the total agricultural holdings are owned by 7% of landowners
• Agricultural land ownership by race: 72% of farms and agricultural holdings are owned by whites, 15% by coloured citizens, 5% by Indians, and 4% by Africans

For decades, the country’s assets — its land, its minerals, its human resources, its enterprises — have been owned, controlled and managed in a way that has prevented the extraction of their full value. Our intention is to unlock the economic potential of land. Without the recognition of the property rights of all our people, we will not overcome inequality, and without giving the poor the means to productively farm the land, we will not defeat poverty.

In promoting accelerated land reform, the ruling ANC, recently resolved to propose a constitutional amendment that would make explicit the conditions under which land could justifiably be expropriated without compensation. While the current clause in the constitution dealing with property rights does not necessarily prohibit such a measure, the ANC’s view is that an amendment would provide certainty and clarity.

The proposed amendment would need to reinforce the fundamental principles of the property clause, which, among other things, prohibits the arbitrary deprivation of property and holds that expropriation is possible in the public interest subject to just and equitable compensation. It also says that no provision can impede the process of land reform to redress the results of past racial discrimination.

While a parliamentary committee is at present wrapping up public hearings on this issue and still needs to give consideration to any possible constitutional amendment, there have been several suggestions on when expropriation without compensation may be justified. These include, for instance, unused land, derelict buildings, purely speculative land holdings, or circumstances where occupiers have strong historical rights and title holders do not occupy or use their land, such as labour tenancy, informal settlements and abandoned inner-city buildings.

This is no land grab; nor is it an assault on the private ownership of property. The ANC has been clear that its land reform programme should not undermine future investment in the economy or damage agricultural production and food security. The proposals will not erode property rights, but will instead ensure that the rights of all South Africans, and not just those who currently own land, are strengthened. SA has learnt from the experiences of other countries, both from what has worked and what has not, and will not make the same mistakes that others have made.

The proposal on expropriation without compensation is one element of a broader programme of land reform that seeks to ensure that all citizens can have their land rights recognised, whether they live in communal areas, informal settlements or on commercial farms. It includes the release of well-located urban land for low-cost housing so that the poor can own property and live close to economic opportunities.

For land reform to succeed, it is essential that support is given to beneficiaries of land redistribution through financing, training, market access, irrigation and the provision of seeds, fertiliser and equipment, all of which contribute to the sustainability of emerging agricultural enterprises.

Land reform in SA is a moral, social and economic imperative. By bringing more land into productive use, by giving more South Africans assets and opportunities for sustainable livelihoods, the country is creating conditions for greater, more inclusive and more meaningful growth.

Thats right, they intend to compensate the people who stole their land !!

And it is wider ranging than farmland. It will address inner city land use in an effort to improve housing. This is an absolute necessity for social cohesion in a country where inequality destabilises any kind of progress.

Of course, as a racist, you can only see that black folks will benefit out of this and that cant be right in your world.

They will be wanting the vote next.

Interesting. YOu deny any murders are taking place, and start talking about events over a century ago, and finish with a government promise of payments for land to be confiscated.


You do realize that that is not a very convincing argument that murders are not taking place, do you?

Indeed, it is more an justification of said murders, than any attempt to show that they are not taking place.

The South African farmers themselves statethat murders are at a 20 year low. The whole thing is a made up scare story by right wing loons.

Oh, don't you want to spend some time talking about the justifications for the murders that you claim are not happening first?


Also, link.

Why are you happy to repeat shite spouted by neo nazi nutters ? Its not true,its a lie.

You people call anyone to the right of Stalin, a neo nazi.

So, you can stop wasting your time, that dog won't hunt.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Murders of farmers in South Africa at 20-year low, research shows

A reputable source. Lets see the genocide proof ?

From a link included in your source.


Farm murders at a 20-year low, AgriSA reports


"In response to the report, AfriForum’s deputy CEO, Ernst Roets, told The Citizen the figures stated do not gel with those released by the police, or with AfriForum’s own records of farm attacks.

“AfriForum is in possession of more names of people who were murdered in farm attacks than the total number which has been provided by the police,” he said.

“The number released now also doesn’t correspond with the police’s previous figures. According to the former police commissioner, there were 74 farm murders and 638 attacks in 2016-17.

“According to the new figures, there were 66 murders and 478 farm attacks. That is a significant difference.”

Roets also refers to “dark figures”, which are farm attacks which aren’t reported to police, saying it is impossible to determine how large that number is.

“If we look at the under-reporting of violent crimes, one can deduce that the gap is increasing.”

Roets says AfriForum believes farm murders to be an extremely complex crime and that it wouldn’t be possible to reduce the motives to simply one or two reasons.

He does, however, believe political climate and utterances are contributing factors."

Afriforum are neo nazi extremists behind all of this.They offer no figures up to dispute the figures put out by the actual farmers. Who Should we believe ?

 

[hunarcy]

Ive noticed that hardly any of the threads on the Africa board get much response. Disir posts a lot of interesting stuff that doesnt get the reaction it deserves.
But there is one topic that seems to fire up a certain section of the board to full froth. That is the subject of land redistribution.
Ive scratched my head over this. Why is this the only African subject of interest to people on here ?

Is it because most of the tales are made up genocide stories ?
Is it because the supposed victims are white and bad things cant happen to white folks ?
Is there a long suppressed desire to return to the evil age of apartheid ?
Is apartheid worship some kind of comfort to alt righters in a post Jim Crow US ?

It might be all of those things.

But I think the answer may be more complex than that.

It is more about the US than it is about South Africa.

If you question the legitimacy of white ownership of African land then it raises other questions closer to home.
If the Boer cant sieze land at gunpoint then why should anyone else have that right ?

The only good injun is a dead injun ?

What I've noticed is that Tommy here goes out of his way to insult the American Right at every opportunity and as he is supposedly a citizen of another nation, I can't help but wonder why? Why is he so invested in attacking American conservatives? Is it possible he's just another mindless troll who deserves no attention?

 

[Correll]

Murders of farmers in South Africa at 20-year low, research shows

A reputable source. Lets see the genocide proof ?

From a link included in your source.


Farm murders at a 20-year low, AgriSA reports


"In response to the report, AfriForum’s deputy CEO, Ernst Roets, told The Citizen the figures stated do not gel with those released by the police, or with AfriForum’s own records of farm attacks.

“AfriForum is in possession of more names of people who were murdered in farm attacks than the total number which has been provided by the police,” he said.

“The number released now also doesn’t correspond with the police’s previous figures. According to the former police commissioner, there were 74 farm murders and 638 attacks in 2016-17.

“According to the new figures, there were 66 murders and 478 farm attacks. That is a significant difference.”

Roets also refers to “dark figures”, which are farm attacks which aren’t reported to police, saying it is impossible to determine how large that number is.

“If we look at the under-reporting of violent crimes, one can deduce that the gap is increasing.”

Roets says AfriForum believes farm murders to be an extremely complex crime and that it wouldn’t be possible to reduce the motives to simply one or two reasons.

He does, however, believe political climate and utterances are contributing factors."

Afriforum are neo nazi extremists behind all of this.They offer no figures up to dispute the figures put out by the actual farmers. Who Should we believe ?

They cited previous numbers from the police, twice.

And I posted that.


So, your claim that the offer not figures is completely false.


That undermines your already complete lack of credibility and renders your name calling irrelevant.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Murders of farmers in South Africa at 20-year low, research shows

A reputable source. Lets see the genocide proof ?

From a link included in your source.


Farm murders at a 20-year low, AgriSA reports


"In response to the report, AfriForum’s deputy CEO, Ernst Roets, told The Citizen the figures stated do not gel with those released by the police, or with AfriForum’s own records of farm attacks.

“AfriForum is in possession of more names of people who were murdered in farm attacks than the total number which has been provided by the police,” he said.

“The number released now also doesn’t correspond with the police’s previous figures. According to the former police commissioner, there were 74 farm murders and 638 attacks in 2016-17.

“According to the new figures, there were 66 murders and 478 farm attacks. That is a significant difference.”

Roets also refers to “dark figures”, which are farm attacks which aren’t reported to police, saying it is impossible to determine how large that number is.

“If we look at the under-reporting of violent crimes, one can deduce that the gap is increasing.”

Roets says AfriForum believes farm murders to be an extremely complex crime and that it wouldn’t be possible to reduce the motives to simply one or two reasons.

He does, however, believe political climate and utterances are contributing factors."

Afriforum are neo nazi extremists behind all of this.They offer no figures up to dispute the figures put out by the actual farmers. Who Should we believe ?

They cited previous numbers from the police, twice.

And I posted that.


So, your claim that the offer not figures is completely false.


That undermines your already complete lack of credibility and renders your name calling irrelevant.

Look you idiot. Even if I accepted your made up figures the truth is still the same. There is no genocide. Its just a made up scare story for racist trash like yourself.

 

[Tilly]

Murders of farmers in South Africa at 20-year low, research shows

A reputable source. Lets see the genocide proof ?

From a link included in your source.


Farm murders at a 20-year low, AgriSA reports


"In response to the report, AfriForum’s deputy CEO, Ernst Roets, told The Citizen the figures stated do not gel with those released by the police, or with AfriForum’s own records of farm attacks.

“AfriForum is in possession of more names of people who were murdered in farm attacks than the total number which has been provided by the police,” he said.

“The number released now also doesn’t correspond with the police’s previous figures. According to the former police commissioner, there were 74 farm murders and 638 attacks in 2016-17.

“According to the new figures, there were 66 murders and 478 farm attacks. That is a significant difference.”

Roets also refers to “dark figures”, which are farm attacks which aren’t reported to police, saying it is impossible to determine how large that number is.

“If we look at the under-reporting of violent crimes, one can deduce that the gap is increasing.”

Roets says AfriForum believes farm murders to be an extremely complex crime and that it wouldn’t be possible to reduce the motives to simply one or two reasons.

He does, however, believe political climate and utterances are contributing factors."

Afriforum are neo nazi extremists behind all of this.They offer no figures up to dispute the figures put out by the actual farmers. Who Should we believe ?

They cited previous numbers from the police, twice.

And I posted that.


So, your claim that the offer not figures is completely false.


That undermines your already complete lack of credibility and renders your name calling irrelevant.

Tammy and the other hateful racists here don’t t have access to accurate figures as the gvmnt decided in 2007 to quit keeping data on farm murders - for a reason.
Their is no reason to believe any figures now handed out by the gvmnt and invested organisations have any veracity whatsoever. Genocidal racist murderers tend not to advertise to the world how many people they are raping and murdering and stealing from.

 

[Tilly]

Murders of farmers in South Africa at 20-year low, research shows

A reputable source. Lets see the genocide proof ?

From a link included in your source.


Farm murders at a 20-year low, AgriSA reports


"In response to the report, AfriForum’s deputy CEO, Ernst Roets, told The Citizen the figures stated do not gel with those released by the police, or with AfriForum’s own records of farm attacks.

“AfriForum is in possession of more names of people who were murdered in farm attacks than the total number which has been provided by the police,” he said.

“The number released now also doesn’t correspond with the police’s previous figures. According to the former police commissioner, there were 74 farm murders and 638 attacks in 2016-17.

“According to the new figures, there were 66 murders and 478 farm attacks. That is a significant difference.”

Roets also refers to “dark figures”, which are farm attacks which aren’t reported to police, saying it is impossible to determine how large that number is.

“If we look at the under-reporting of violent crimes, one can deduce that the gap is increasing.”

Roets says AfriForum believes farm murders to be an extremely complex crime and that it wouldn’t be possible to reduce the motives to simply one or two reasons.

He does, however, believe political climate and utterances are contributing factors."

Afriforum are neo nazi extremists behind all of this.They offer no figures up to dispute the figures put out by the actual farmers. Who Should we believe ?

They cited previous numbers from the police, twice.

And I posted that.


So, your claim that the offer not figures is completely false.


That undermines your already complete lack of credibility and renders your name calling irrelevant.

Look you idiot. Even if I accepted your made up figures the truth is still the same. There is no genocide. Its just a made up scare story for racist trash like yourself.

The racist trash here is clearly you and your pal who espouses the rape and murder of white South African children. A common theme here for you, isn’t there?

 

[hunarcy]

Murders of farmers in South Africa at 20-year low, research shows

A reputable source. Lets see the genocide proof ?

From a link included in your source.


Farm murders at a 20-year low, AgriSA reports


"In response to the report, AfriForum’s deputy CEO, Ernst Roets, told The Citizen the figures stated do not gel with those released by the police, or with AfriForum’s own records of farm attacks.

“AfriForum is in possession of more names of people who were murdered in farm attacks than the total number which has been provided by the police,” he said.

“The number released now also doesn’t correspond with the police’s previous figures. According to the former police commissioner, there were 74 farm murders and 638 attacks in 2016-17.

“According to the new figures, there were 66 murders and 478 farm attacks. That is a significant difference.”

Roets also refers to “dark figures”, which are farm attacks which aren’t reported to police, saying it is impossible to determine how large that number is.

“If we look at the under-reporting of violent crimes, one can deduce that the gap is increasing.”

Roets says AfriForum believes farm murders to be an extremely complex crime and that it wouldn’t be possible to reduce the motives to simply one or two reasons.

He does, however, believe political climate and utterances are contributing factors."

Afriforum are neo nazi extremists behind all of this.They offer no figures up to dispute the figures put out by the actual farmers. Who Should we believe ?

They cited previous numbers from the police, twice.

And I posted that.


So, your claim that the offer not figures is completely false.


That undermines your already complete lack of credibility and renders your name calling irrelevant.

Look you idiot. Even if I accepted your made up figures the truth is still the same. There is no genocide. Its just a made up scare story for racist trash like yourself.

Yep, mindless troll.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Murders of farmers in South Africa at 20-year low, research shows

A reputable source. Lets see the genocide proof ?

From a link included in your source.


Farm murders at a 20-year low, AgriSA reports


"In response to the report, AfriForum’s deputy CEO, Ernst Roets, told The Citizen the figures stated do not gel with those released by the police, or with AfriForum’s own records of farm attacks.

“AfriForum is in possession of more names of people who were murdered in farm attacks than the total number which has been provided by the police,” he said.

“The number released now also doesn’t correspond with the police’s previous figures. According to the former police commissioner, there were 74 farm murders and 638 attacks in 2016-17.

“According to the new figures, there were 66 murders and 478 farm attacks. That is a significant difference.”

Roets also refers to “dark figures”, which are farm attacks which aren’t reported to police, saying it is impossible to determine how large that number is.

“If we look at the under-reporting of violent crimes, one can deduce that the gap is increasing.”

Roets says AfriForum believes farm murders to be an extremely complex crime and that it wouldn’t be possible to reduce the motives to simply one or two reasons.

He does, however, believe political climate and utterances are contributing factors."

Afriforum are neo nazi extremists behind all of this.They offer no figures up to dispute the figures put out by the actual farmers. Who Should we believe ?

They cited previous numbers from the police, twice.

And I posted that.


So, your claim that the offer not figures is completely false.


That undermines your already complete lack of credibility and renders your name calling irrelevant.

Look you idiot. Even if I accepted your made up figures the truth is still the same. There is no genocide. Its just a made up scare story for racist trash like yourself.

Yep, mindless troll.

Or you could engage in the thread.

 

[hunarcy]

From a link included in your source.


Farm murders at a 20-year low, AgriSA reports


"In response to the report, AfriForum’s deputy CEO, Ernst Roets, told The Citizen the figures stated do not gel with those released by the police, or with AfriForum’s own records of farm attacks.

“AfriForum is in possession of more names of people who were murdered in farm attacks than the total number which has been provided by the police,” he said.

“The number released now also doesn’t correspond with the police’s previous figures. According to the former police commissioner, there were 74 farm murders and 638 attacks in 2016-17.

“According to the new figures, there were 66 murders and 478 farm attacks. That is a significant difference.”

Roets also refers to “dark figures”, which are farm attacks which aren’t reported to police, saying it is impossible to determine how large that number is.

“If we look at the under-reporting of violent crimes, one can deduce that the gap is increasing.”

Roets says AfriForum believes farm murders to be an extremely complex crime and that it wouldn’t be possible to reduce the motives to simply one or two reasons.

He does, however, believe political climate and utterances are contributing factors."

Afriforum are neo nazi extremists behind all of this.They offer no figures up to dispute the figures put out by the actual farmers. Who Should we believe ?

They cited previous numbers from the police, twice.

And I posted that.


So, your claim that the offer not figures is completely false.


That undermines your already complete lack of credibility and renders your name calling irrelevant.

Look you idiot. Even if I accepted your made up figures the truth is still the same. There is no genocide. Its just a made up scare story for racist trash like yourself.

Yep, mindless troll.

Or you could engage in the thread.

I don't engage trolls. It just encourages you. Adieu

 

[Toro]

Ive noticed that hardly any of the threads on the Africa board get much response. Disir posts a lot of interesting stuff that doesnt get the reaction it deserves.
But there is one topic that seems to fire up a certain section of the board to full froth. That is the subject of land redistribution.
Ive scratched my head over this. Why is this the only African subject of interest to people on here ?

Is it because most of the tales are made up genocide stories ?
Is it because the supposed victims are white and bad things cant happen to white folks ?
Is there a long suppressed desire to return to the evil age of apartheid ?
Is apartheid worship some kind of comfort to alt righters in a post Jim Crow US ?

It might be all of those things.

But I think the answer may be more complex than that.

It is more about the US than it is about South Africa.

If you question the legitimacy of white ownership of African land then it raises other questions closer to home.
If the Boer cant sieze land at gunpoint then why should anyone else have that right ?

The only good injun is a dead injun ?

Dude, that's so far off base, it's ridiculous.

Zimbabwe was a ******* disaster.

 

[Toro]

In the pursuit of complete freedom from ****** people have to die. I'm proud of the children that will starve if necessary to keep ****** in europe and out of Africa.

Wow, you really are fucked up.

What a great parent you would be to allow your children to starve.

 

[Yarddog]

SO, if a white guy bought land today if South Africa, would you be ok with that?

Not today. Maybe sometime in the future after SA gets back on its feet without white interference. However you didnt answer my question. Did the Black people steal the land in the UK or did they purchase it?

Got it. NO whites can buy land in South Africa, but blacks can buy land in Europe.


Because different rules for different folks.


Based on race.


LIke I said, I'll be laughing at you when black children are starving.

Thats correct. I have different rules for a race that steals shit all the time.

Your laughing is irrelevant. I'll just be laughing at all those whites suffering because they were forced to give up their stolen land.

My point exactly. YOu are so driven by hate, that you are willing to see black children starve, if it means taking something from white people.


You are vile beyond measure.

In the pursuit of complete freedom from ****** people have to die. I'm proud of the children that will starve if necessary to keep ****** in europe and out of Africa.

You do understand that in the beginning of the colonization of SA by whites, the whites actually purchased land in many cases from the Africans right? and the Zulus and other tribes were killing, enslaving and displacing other tribes around that time as well. White encroachment was part of the history in the region but not all of it by far.A lot of the blacks living there now were not even the original inhabitants. Aparthide did not come around until much later.
Basically, there are white people born in SA who have had family there for 300 years... bad or good SA is more their home than it is yours Asclepias... so for you to say you would be proud of south African Children who would die??
Spoken like someone truely disconnected from reality. Personally I don't like watching people suffer, this is at least the third time Ive seen you take glee in someone else's pain. You definately have a thread of sickness running through you.

Tell me, would you like it if people called to kick all black people out of Europe and the United States?

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Ive noticed that hardly any of the threads on the Africa board get much response. Disir posts a lot of interesting stuff that doesnt get the reaction it deserves.
But there is one topic that seems to fire up a certain section of the board to full froth. That is the subject of land redistribution.
Ive scratched my head over this. Why is this the only African subject of interest to people on here ?

Is it because most of the tales are made up genocide stories ?
Is it because the supposed victims are white and bad things cant happen to white folks ?
Is there a long suppressed desire to return to the evil age of apartheid ?
Is apartheid worship some kind of comfort to alt righters in a post Jim Crow US ?

It might be all of those things.

But I think the answer may be more complex than that.

It is more about the US than it is about South Africa.

If you question the legitimacy of white ownership of African land then it raises other questions closer to home.
If the Boer cant sieze land at gunpoint then why should anyone else have that right ?

The only good injun is a dead injun ?

Dude, that's so far off base, it's ridiculous.

Zimbabwe was a ******* disaster.

Yes it was but I dont see the link between Mugabe and what the South Africans are considering. They are two different countries.