The American Military occupation of Germany

[Iceman]

An interview on the subject with preeminent Russian political theorist Alexsandr Dugin

November 30, 2013 Manuel Ochsenreiter

Prof. Dugin, the NSA spying scandal caused a deep impact on German-American relations. We Germans have been told for decades that Washington is our "friend" and "partner". Now many Germans have come to realize that the US has been behaving more or less like an occupation force. Why did it take so long to realize that?

Dugin: We cannot answer this important question without historical details. First of all, Germany lost World War II. In May 1945 there was the unconditional surrender of the German armed forces. The result of the total loss of the war was the total occupation by the two main powers – USA and Soviet Union. Washington and Moscow were not just the main forces at the end of the war; they also represented the two ideological camps of the post war era. The German eastern provinces, eventually annexed by Poland and the Soviet Union, and Central Germany were occupied by the Soviet army, West Germany by the US-army and its western allies, UK and France. Germany was divided by two occupation forces. No part of Germany was free. Frankly speaking, occupation is occupation. There is no degree of occupation. With the Cold War ideology on both sides of occupied Germany the face of the occupation changed. Germans in the GDR were educated to believe that the Soviet Union had liberated them from Nazism and that they were now "free." The Soviet occupation was interpreted in schools and education as the guarantee of "freedom and independence." The same we can see in the FRG, where the Anglo-Saxon occupation powers re-educated the population. There the Germans were told that the western forces liberated them in 1945 and protected their "freedom and democracy" against the "communist threat" from the East. But neither the Germans in the GDR nor in the FRG were free and sovereign, they were still occupied.

Read Here:"Occupation is Occupation!": An Interview with Alexandr Dugin ? Alternative Right - A Magazine of Radical Traditionalism

 

[Freewill]

Read the following definition, is that what the US is doing?

Definition:

take control of (a place, esp. a country) by military conquest or settlement.
"the region was occupied by Britain during World War I"

synonyms: capture, seize, take possession of, conquer; More
invade, overrun;

take over, garrison, hold, annex, subjugate, colonize

"the whole region was occupied by foreign troops"

•enter, take control of, and stay in (a building) illegally and often forcibly, esp. as a form of protest.
"the workers occupied the factory"

 

[Iceman]

take control of (a place, esp. a country) by military conquest or settlement.
"the region was occupied by Britain during World War I"


Yes

 

[Camp]

Occupation, Germans should be thankful a country called Germany even exist. Could of, maybe should have been busted into a dozen little countries with a 100 years of foriegn oversite and control. Occupation for a short duration was more than they deserved.

 

[HelenaHandbag]

Occupation, Germans should be thankful a country called Germany even exist. Could of, maybe should have been busted into a dozen little countries with a 100 years of foriegn oversite and control. Occupation for a short duration was more than they deserved.

The occupation has lasted for nearly 60 years.

 

[Iceman]

Occupation, Germans should be thankful a country called Germany even exist. Could of, maybe should have been busted into a dozen little countries with a 100 years of foriegn oversite and control. Occupation for a short duration was more than they deserved.

Sounds a lot like this.

"The Germans are not human beings. From now on, the word 'German' is the most horrible curse. From now on, the word 'German' strikes us to the quick. We have nothing to discuss. We will not get excited. We will kill. If you have not killed at least one German a day, you have wasted that day ... If you cannot kill a German with a bullet, then kill him with your bayonet. If your part of the front is quiet and there is no fighting, then kill a German in the meantime ... If you have already killed a German, then kill another one - there is nothing more amusing to us than a heap of German corpses. Don't count the days, don't count the kilometers. Count only one thing: the number of Germans you have killed. Kill the Germans! ... - Kill the Germans! Kill!"

Ilya Ehrenburg-Soviet Propagandist

 

[Camp]

Occupation, Germans should be thankful a country called Germany even exist. Could of, maybe should have been busted into a dozen little countries with a 100 years of foriegn oversite and control. Occupation for a short duration was more than they deserved.

The occupation has lasted for nearly 60 years.

Depends on the definition of occupation one chooses to use. Any anyhow, you could say we protected them from Soviet enslavement and occupation such as that which occured in East Germany.

 

[Iceman]

Occupation, Germans should be thankful a country called Germany even exist. Could of, maybe should have been busted into a dozen little countries with a 100 years of foriegn oversite and control. Occupation for a short duration was more than they deserved.

The occupation has lasted for nearly 60 years.

It seems like this poster is contradicting the one above. One says it isn't an occupation, the other says this occupation isn't harsh enough.

 

[HelenaHandbag]

Occupation, Germans should be thankful a country called Germany even exist. Could of, maybe should have been busted into a dozen little countries with a 100 years of foriegn oversite and control. Occupation for a short duration was more than they deserved.

The occupation has lasted for nearly 60 years.

Depends on the definition of occupation one chooses to use. Any anyhow, you could say we protected them from Soviet enslavement and occupation such as that which occured in East Germany.

You could say that, but it makes them no less occupied.

 

[Iceman]

Occupation, Germans should be thankful a country called Germany even exist. Could of, maybe should have been busted into a dozen little countries with a 100 years of foriegn oversite and control. Occupation for a short duration was more than they deserved.

The occupation has lasted for nearly 60 years.

Depends on the definition of occupation one chooses to use. Any anyhow, you could say we protected them from Soviet enslavement and occupation such as that which occured in East Germany.

We also gave the Soviets the land lease deal to defeat the Germans, thus giving them the ability to occupy East Germany. You could also say that.

 

[HelenaHandbag]

Occupation, Germans should be thankful a country called Germany even exist. Could of, maybe should have been busted into a dozen little countries with a 100 years of foriegn oversite and control. Occupation for a short duration was more than they deserved.

The occupation has lasted for nearly 60 years.

It seems like this poster is contradicting the one above. One says it isn't an occupation, the other says this occupation isn't harsh enough.

I'm making no judgment on the harshness or lack thereof, just that it exists.

The same kind of occupations that exist in Japan, Korea, Cuba and numerous other sovereign nations.

 

[Mojo2]

Occupation, Germans should be thankful a country called Germany even exist. Could of, maybe should have been busted into a dozen little countries with a 100 years of foriegn oversite and control. Occupation for a short duration was more than they deserved.

The occupation has lasted for nearly 60 years.

And it hasn't made the Germans at all grateful, it seems by some of the few responses I've seen to this thread so far.

America has taken on the lion's share of Germany's national defense and security costs these past 60 years and made sure the Soviet Union would not be able to act on their aggressive inclinations toward Germany and all of Europe.

We have provided the peace and the peace of mind for Germans these past 60 years so they could invest in their industry and growing their economy.

And just because the asshole in the Oval Office eaves drops on Merkle the Germans are all verboten on AMERICA???

Look, half of us hate Obama's actions so don't blame all of America.

Just the stupid Libs.

 

[Moonglow]

The Germans are being spied upon just as the Germans spy on others.

 

[occupied]

Occupation, Germans should be thankful a country called Germany even exist. Could of, maybe should have been busted into a dozen little countries with a 100 years of foriegn oversite and control. Occupation for a short duration was more than they deserved.

The occupation has lasted for nearly 60 years.

And it hasn't made the Germans at all grateful, it seems by some of the few responses I've seen to this thread so far.

America has taken on the lion's share of Germany's national defense and security costs these past 60 years and made sure the Soviet Union would not be able to act on their aggressive inclinations toward Germany and all of Europe.

We have provided the peace and the peace of mind for Germans these past 60 years so they could invest in their industry and growing their economy.

And just because the asshole in the Oval Office eaves drops on Merkle the Germans are all verboten on AMERICA???

Look, half of us hate Obama's actions so don't blame all of America.

Just the stupid Libs.

Do you actually think the actions of our surveillance apparatus has anything to do with political ideology? Do you think a republican president such as Mitt would have said "hands off"?

 

[Moonglow]

How would Europe look after 60 years of Nazi rule? What Europe?

 

[Londoner]

Read the following definition, is that what the US is doing?

Definition:

take control of (a place, esp. a country) by military conquest or settlement.
"the region was occupied by Britain during World War I"

synonyms: capture, seize, take possession of, conquer; More
invade, overrun;

take over, garrison, hold, annex, subjugate, colonize

"the whole region was occupied by foreign troops"

•enter, take control of, and stay in (a building) illegally and often forcibly, esp. as a form of protest.
"the workers occupied the factory"

The model for Empire has changed.

The old model of military conquest was very inefficient.

The new model is better termed "Soft Empire" which operates mainly through market pressure or more direct financial servitude - the result is the same in that one nation exerts influence over another, but the new model is less costly and more effective. (Sometimes we take more direction action, like when we replaced the democratically elected Mosaddegh in Iran with the brutal Shaw, who was more willing to play ball with Western energy needs. But usually we attempt to construct forms of financial servitude that allow us to be the principal "decider" over another nation's policies and resources.)

Take Reagan's expansion of IMF Loans to impoverished (but) resource-rich parts of the developing world. The US found corruptible dictators who, in exchange for weapons, financial aid and protection, would take out massive loans for "structural improvement", which were fulfilled by US corporations - no-bid contracts. Then the host nation would predictably default on the loan, which would put the country in technical receivership, allowing the US to pry open its economy to foreign control along with exercising considerable influence over how the country voted when it came to things like free-trade, nationalization v privatization, etc (all the things that determine who controls/benefits from the host nation's resources).

Market coercion and the imposition of debt is much more effective than boots on the ground. Listen, the U.S. uses/controls over 25% of the world's resources and exercises primary control over the global economy (talk about centralization) BUT it only possesses 3% of the global population. [Don't tell the woman, children and fragile republicans this, but] In order to operate this kind of structural power imbalance (where our control is massively disproportionate to our size) we have to kick some ass. Life is a jungle, and the lion should not apologize for his claws and sharp teeth. This is why we have bases all over the globe. If someone fucks with our oil resources in the middle east, than they are going to get their ass kicked. Period.

But if you want to understand how this works, google "Petrodollar warfare". You will learn how we use force to ensure that the dollar is the world's reserve currency, and that oil is priced in dollars. One of the reasons why Hussein & Iran posed such a threat is because they lead a movement to price oil in Euros (which would have done significant damage to the US Economy). I wish Liberals would study this stuff too because they would see that there was a very rational explanation for the Iraq War ... (even though it devolved into a corruptly mismanaged farce with hidden costs that will never be unearthed).

We Americans benefit from the blood spilled on the periphery of Empire, and we have the luxury of not knowing what men like Bush and Chaney knew. If you think history's most powerful Superpower doesn't "man-up" and exercise coercive financial control over other nations, than you belong with the woman and children back on the homeland, safe from the brutal realities of "Dollar Hegemony". It's time the Republican voter crawled out from under his bed, put his boots on, and joined us in the back room where the brutal truth of Empire is discussed honestly. There's no need to apologize for it. There's no need to cloak it in fluffy bromides about how "freedom is on the march". Geopolitics is a contact sport. America plays hardball. Deal with it like a man. And please, please turn off talk radio and start to study this stuff. You don't want to approach the infinite complexity of geopolitics with silly bumper stickers about "spreading freedom". When a country like Iraq or Iran threatens to nationalize their oil fields or cut the U.S. out of the loop in favor of Russia, China or Europe, than the issue isn't about "Freedom", rather, it's about the survival of the American Economy, the most oil-dependent in history. We will do what what is necessary to protect our interests, which sometimes involve the coercive (mostly financial but sometimes military) manipulation of resources that we don't own. Life isn't fair. Join the men in the back room.

Start here
http://home.aubg.bg/faculty/kpetrov/other/Textbook Downloads/Clark - Petrodollar Warfare.pdf

 

[Jughead]

There is no military occupation of Germany. Germans are one of our closest allies, and are considered friends. U.S. military bases there provide employment for many German citizens. (many of whom are civilians). They also conduct joint military exercises together. The U.S. military bases do provide the U.S. with a strategic location to ensure overall well being of specific interests within the area.

 

[HelenaHandbag]

Occupation, Germans should be thankful a country called Germany even exist. Could of, maybe should have been busted into a dozen little countries with a 100 years of foriegn oversite and control. Occupation for a short duration was more than they deserved.

The occupation has lasted for nearly 60 years.

And it hasn't made the Germans at all grateful, it seems by some of the few responses I've seen to this thread so far.

America has taken on the lion's share of Germany's national defense and security costs these past 60 years and made sure the Soviet Union would not be able to act on their aggressive inclinations toward Germany and all of Europe.

We have provided the peace and the peace of mind for Germans these past 60 years so they could invest in their industry and growing their economy.

And just because the asshole in the Oval Office eaves drops on Merkle the Germans are all verboten on AMERICA???

Look, half of us hate Obama's actions so don't blame all of America.

Just the stupid Libs.

Meh.

The Cold War is over. The Germans can afford their own national defense.

Time for our troops to come home.

 

[HelenaHandbag]

There is no military occupation of Germany. Germans are one of our closest allies, and are considered friends. U.S. military bases there provide employment for many German citizens. (many of whom are civilians). They also conduct joint military exercises together. The U.S. military bases do provide the U.S. with a strategic location to ensure overall well being of specific interests within the area.

Sounds like a twisted version of a welfare program to me.

 

[Jughead]

There is no military occupation of Germany. Germans are one of our closest allies, and are considered friends. U.S. military bases there provide employment for many German citizens. (many of whom are civilians). They also conduct joint military exercises together. The U.S. military bases do provide the U.S. with a strategic location to ensure overall well being of specific interests within the area.

Sounds like a twisted version of a welfare program to me.

Well, we do need those bases to ensure well being of interests we have in the region. At the same time, the military bases require civilian employees, so the local folks in Germany are hired for these jobs. Everyone's happy.